Joe's Book Cafe 2015 Door 15

Art by Gabriel Pacheco

Welcome to the new cafe!

Best of 2014

*= favorite of year

Fiction

Lila by Marilynne Robinson*
Redeployment by Phil Klay
A Constellation of Vital Phenomena by Anthony Marra
Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage by Haruki Murakami
The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt

Nonfiction

The Way I See It by Temple Grandin*
An Astronaut's Guide to Life on Earth by Chris Hadfield
Five Days at Memorial by Sheri Fink
The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman
Agent Zigzag by Ben Macintyre

Young Adult/Midde Grade

Gracefully Grayson by Ami Polonsky*

Science Fiction/Fantasy

Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel*
The Martian by Andy Weir
Book of Strange New Things by Michel Faber
The Peripheral by William Gibson
Cress by Marissa Meyer

Graphic Novels

Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant by Roz Chast*
This One Summer by Jill Tamaki
Exit Wounds by Rutu Modan

Poetry

Blue Horses by Mary Oliver*
Black Boy Suite Black Boy Sweet by Danez Smith
View with a Grain of Sand by Wisława Szymborska

American Author Challenge 2015

January: Carson McCullers - Ballad of the Sad Cafe and Other Stories
Feburary: Henry James - Turn of the Screw
March: Richard Ford - The Sportswriter
April: Louise Erdich - The Round House
May: Sinclair Lewis - Babbitt
June: Wallace Stegner - Where the Bluebird Sings
July: Ursula K. LeGuin (read tons of hers) - Isabel Wilkerson The Warmth of Other Suns
August: Larry McMurtry - Lonesome Dove
September: Flannery O'Connor (read enough) Chaim Potok The Promise
October: Ray Bradbury - (read tons of his) Truman Capote Breakfast at Tiffany's
November: Barbara Kingsolver - Bean Trees
December: E.L. Doctorow - World's Fair

British Author Challenge 2015

January: Kazuo Ishiguro - Never Let Me Go
February: Evelyn Waugh - Scoop
March: Daphne Du Maurier - Jamaica Inn
April: Angela Carter - The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories
May: Margaret Drabble/Martin Amis - Jane Gardam The Man in the Wooden Hat
June: Anthony Burgess - Nothing Like the Sun
July: Virginia Woolf - Mrs. Dalloway
August: Iris Murdoch - The Bell
September: Salman Rushdie - Midnight's Children
October: David Mitchell - The Bone Clocks
November: William Boyd - Restless
December: Hilary Mantel - A Place of Greater Safety, and maybe a Wodehouse for fun

Books Read in 2015

January

1. Ruddy Gore by Kerry Greenwood
2. Being Mortal by Atul Gawande
3. Ballad of the Sad Cafe by Carson McCullers
4. Saga Volume 4 by Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples
5. Rose Gold by Walter Mosley
6. Serenity Leaves on the Wind by Zack Whedon
7. A Thousand Mornings by Mary Oliver
8. Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro
9. Urn Burial by Kerry Greenwood
10. The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan
11. Lexicon by Max Barry
12. The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
13. Coventry by Helen Humphreys
14. The Rosie Effect by Graeme Simsion
15. First Frost by Sarah Addison Allen
16. The Lost Garden by Helen Humphreys

February

17. Turn of the Screw by Henry James
18. White Teeth by Zadie Smith
19. The Sculptor by Scott McCloud
20. Son by Lois Lowry
21. Raisins and Almonds by Kerry Greenwood
22. Scoop by Evelyn Waugh
23. The Evening Chorus by Helen Humphreys
24. Death Before Wicket by Kerry Greenwood
25. Dinner with Buddha by Roland Merullo
26. The Leaning Girl by Benoit Peeters
27. Claire of the Sea Light by Edwidge Dandicat
28. Stumptown by Greg Rucka

March

29. Consider the Lobster and Other Essays by David Foster Wallace
30. Away with the Fairies by Kerry Greenwood
31. No Time Like the Past by Jodi Taylor
32. March Book 1 by John Lewis
33. El Deafo by Cece Bell
34. Murder in Montparnasse by Kerry Underwood
35. Jamaica Inn by Rebecca Du Maurier
36. Mrs. Queen Takes the Train by Willaim Kuhn
37. Stumptown Volume Two by Greg Rucka
38. The Castlemaine Murders by Kerry Greenwood
39. Blood Bound by Patricia Briggs
40. The Real Jane Austen by Paula Byrne
41. Endangered: A Joe Pickett Novel by C.J. Box
42. The Graveyard Book Volume One and The Graveyard Book Volume Two by Neil Gaiman and P. Craig Russell

April

43. The Best of It: New and Selected Poems by Kay Ryan
44. Night Film by Mariah Pessl
45. March Book Two by John Lewis
46. Queen of the Flowers by Kerry Greenwood
47. Obsession in Death by J.D. Robb
48. Death by Water by Kerry Greenwood
49. The Round House by Louise Erdrich
50. Younger Next Year by Chris Crowley
51. Iron Kissed by Patricia Briggs
52. The Bloody Chamber and Other Stories by Angela Carter
53. Murder in the Dark by Kerry Greenwood
54. Perfect State by Brandon Sanderson
55. The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison
56. The Two Mrs. Abbotts by D.E. Stevenson
57. The Late Works of Hayao Miyazaki by Dani Cavallaro
58. Bones Crossed by Patricia Briggs

May

59. The Man in the Wooden Hat by Jane Gardam
60. Silver Borne by Patricia Briggs
61. River Marked by Patiricia Briggs
62. Displacement by Lucy Knisley
63. Bangkok Rules by Harlan Wolff
64. The Girl of Fire and Thorns by Rae Carson
65. And Sometimes I Wonder About You by Walter Mosley
66. Golden Son by Pierce Brown
67. Babbitt by Sinclair Lewis
68. To Dance with the White Dog by Terry Kay
69. Ross Poldark by Winston Graham
70. Artificial Absolutes by Mary Fan
71. Our Souls at Night by Kent Haruf
72. World of Trouble by Ben H. Winters
73. The Chimes by Anna Small

June

74. Crown of Embers by Rae Carson
75. The Bitter Kingdom by Rae Carson
76. A Spy Among Friends by Ben Macintyre
77. Cordelia's Honor by Lois McMaster Bujold
78. Frost Burned by Patricia Briggs
79. Nothing Like the Sun by Anthony Burgess
80. Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs by Wallace Stegner
81. Demelza by Winston Graham
82. The Grand Sophy by Georgette Heyer
83. Velvet Volume 1 by Ed Brubaker
84. The Mask A Vanessa Michael Munroe Novel by Taylor Stevens
85. The Graphic Canon Vol. 3 edited by Russ Kirk

July

86. The Crossover by Kwame Alexander
87. Stumptown Volume 3 by Greg Rucka
88. Agent of Change by Sharon Lee
89. Two Tales of Korval and Fellow Travelers by Sharon Lee
90. Conflict of Honors by Sharon Lee
91. Ghettoside by Jill Leovy
92. Carpe Diem by Sharon Lee
93. Plan B by Sharon Lee
94. Local Custom by Sharon Lee
95. Scout's Progress by Sharon Lee
96. Particle and Wave by Benjamin Landry
97. Lumberjanes by Noelle Stevenson
98. Charles Simic Selected Poems 1963 - 1983
99. I Dare by Sharon Lee
100. H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald
101. Landline by Rainbow Rowell
102. Duty Bound, Certain Symmetry and Trading in Futures by Sharon Lee
103. Little House on the Prairie by Laura Ingalls Wilder

August
104. Delilah Dirk and the Turkish Lieutenant by Tony Cliff
105. Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf
106. A Liaden Universe Constellation: Volume 2 by Sharon Lee
107. The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest by Stieg Larsson and Denise Mina
108. Night Broken by Patricia Briggs
109. Wind/Pinball by Haruki Murakami
110. Fledgling by Sharon Lee
111. Saltation by Sharon Lee
112. Marriage Can Be Murder by Emma Jameson
113. Ghost Ship by Sharon Lee
114. Nimona by Noelle Stevenson
115. Wayward String Theory by Jim Zub
116. Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
117. Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates

September

118. Jane Austen: A Life by Claire Tomalin
119. Rat Queens by Kurtis J. Wiebe
120. Speak: A Novel by Louisa Hall
121. The Nature of the Beast by Louise Penny
122. Caleb's Story by Patricia MacLachlan
123. Redshirts by John Scalzi

Happy new thread, Joe! That top image made me laugh out loud - nice choice!

Happy New Thread, Joe! Love the toppers, especially the first one.

It looks like you had a fine month of reading in August. Sweet!

Best. toppers. yet.

Happy new thread!

Happy new thread, Joe!

Going back to the GAN discussion, I would agree that it is more than just the "best" novel written by an American. When I use the term, I mean a book that captures some of the essential truths of the American experience.

I know a lot of people didn't like it, but I think The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay is a worthy nominee to take a spot on The Shelf.

>3 Crazymamie: Hiya, Mamie! Good to see you. Glad you enjoyed that top image - fits us, doesn't it?

For being the first in the door, here's your usual, on us:



>4 msf59: Thanks, Mark! His art can be pretty somber and eerie, but all of it really draws the viewer in. That first one seemed just right for our cafe group.

>5 laytonwoman3rd: Oh, good, Linda, thanks. I never know how well they'll go over with folks; I'm glad this one tops the toppers for you.

>6 thornton37814: Thanks, Lori!

>7 katiekrug: Thanks, Katie! I'm glad you're going back to the Great American Novel discussion; I think we all were enjoying it, and I didn't want to lose it while opening a new cafe. When I use the term, I mean a book that captures some of the essential truths of the American experience. Yeah, me, too. Nicely put.

I LOVED The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay; another very intriguing nominee for a spot on The Shelf. We'll need to collect all these at some point. This is where Paul's tallying skills would come in handy.

Happy new thread, Joe. Love the new thread toppers. After my morning, this brought a huge grin to my face.

Scrambled eggs on toast with a side of bacon would hit the spot just about now, I think.

Lovely illustrations on the topper. I think my favourite is the rabbit on the ladder. Kind of says something to me about reading amidst the work of day to day life.

And another vote for Kavalier and Clay. Captures the myth making aspects of the new nation (via those cartoon superheroes) as well as the working from nothing to somebodies, for me at least a fictional view of the American dream.

>9 cameling: Sounds like you had a tough morning, Caro. Glad we could improve it a bit with the toppers, and give you a grin.

Wreck 'em with shingles and an oink coming up:



>10 charl08: Thanks, Charlotte. Glad you like the illustrations up there. The rabbit on the ladder is winning the polls so far. It does seem to have a message about reading in the midst of our daily chores, doesn't it?

Thanks for giving another vote for The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay. In Katie's words, it does seem to capture some of the essential truths of the American experience. I like your points about the myth-making superheroes and working from nothing to somebodies.

OK, here's what I've seen so far as nominees for the Great American Novel bookshelf:

Lonesome Dove (which started the discussion)
Grapes of Wrath
Plainsong
Invisible Man
Brooklyn
To Kill a Mockingbird
All the King's Men
Sometimes a Great Notion
Absalom, Absalom
Accordion Crimes
Ragtime
My Antonia
The March
Ship of Fools
Crossing to Safety
Arrowsmith
The Master Butcher's Singing Club
The Age of Innocence
The Yellow Birds
Native Son
Go to Tell It on the Mountain
The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay
Blood Meridian
Gilead
Empire Falls
Huckleberry Finn
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn
Killer Angels
Moby Dick
The Scarlet Letter
Beloved
Catch-22
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter
Sister Carrie
Independence Day
The Whistling Season
Gone with the Wind
The Travels of Jamie McPheeters
Thirteen Moons
Caleb's Crossing
The Winthrop Woman
Little Big Man
Snow Falling on Cedars
The Things They Carried
Matterhorn
McTeague
American Pastoral
The Natural
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Johnny Got His Gun
Breathing Lessons
Digging to America

Great American "Creative Nonfiction"

The Right Stuff
In Cold Blood
Executioner's Song

Great Novels by Americans (category closed - too large a category for the proprietor!)

The Good Earth
The Fixer

Great Novels That Under A Guise Celebrate and Critique American Culture and Are Titled Lolita and Are By a USA Author (Nabakov) and Might Qualify as a GAN

Lolita

Great Nonfiction by Americans (category closed - too large a category for the proprietor)

Godel Escher Bach
The Other America: Poverty in the United States
A People's History of the United States

Did I get them all?

Well, I've read a dozen of them. I have some work to do.....

Happy Monday, Joe!

>13 maggie1944: Happy start to the week, Karen! Yeah, there are a bunch on there I haven't read either. The only one where I haven't read anything at all by the author is All the King's Men.

Hi Joe, Happy New Thread! Seeing you'd started this one reminded me I had some catching up to do with your last one, and I enjoyed the discussions on the GAN and also about Murakami and how "Japanese" or not his books are.

>12 jnwelch: I've only read 9 of the novels on that list so far, though several others are on the tbr. Really enjoyed your (thumbed) review of Lonesome Dove and have to agree with you it's a 5-star read (happy to see your review's got lots of thumbs too!). Must say I think The Good Earth is a strange contender for the GAN considering it's set in China and about the Chinese experience of native Chinese people. And I say this as a great fan of that novel. I don't know that I'll read ALL the books on that list, but several of my favourites are on it (Lonesome Dove, Grapes of Wrath, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Master Butcher's Singing Club, The Age of Innocence, The Good Earth). Everything by Edith Wharton I've read so far has seemed like a wonderful celebration of the best of what American literature has to offer, though I do look forward to discovering some of the others on this list, like Baldwin's Go Tell It on the Mountain and Plainsong, to name just those two. I'm planning on finally reading My Antonia this month, so that's at least one more I can check off that list!

September is upon us in just half a day, so I'll be early for once and wish you a Happy New Month!

eta: back to say I just read Terry Pratchett's thoughts on the fantasy genre and thought it was a brilliant piece. Keeping the LeGuin article for another time.

>13 maggie1944: Oops, missed you, Karen. Having read a dozen of them is cause for patting yourself on the back, seems to me. (And that was when the list was shorter!)

Happy Monday!

>15 Smiler69: Hi, Ilana. Thanks!

Yes, Paul had suggested The Good Earth with the thought that the "Great American Novel" could be a great novel written by an American - not an unreasonable view! But I think we're heading more toward Katie's description up in >7 katiekrug:, "a book that captures some of the essential truths of the American experience." Nonetheless, it didn't seem fair to edit out TGE.

Your endorsement of The Master Butcher's Singing Club further encourages me to get to that one. I LOVED My Antonia, and I think you will have a good time with it. You've heard me warbling before about Plainsong and Go Tell it on the Mountain. We saw a wonderful small theater play adaptation of Plainsong, and I hope some version of that makes it to a bigger stage.

Happy New Month! You're right, we're almost there. I love the Fall, so I don't get as bummed by the end of summer as some folks. I do still believe it's wrong for school classes to start in August - if I were emperor, they wouldn't start until after Labor Day in the USA.

Weren't Pratchett's thoughts on fantasy scintillating? We should re-post his and LeGuin's here, to give busy folks another shot at reading them:

http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2015/08/thoughts-on-pratchett/

http://elenajube.blogspot.com/2013/01/leguin-in-defense-of-fantasy.html

P.S. I don't want to lose something else Katie mentioned in connection with GANs, which is we should think about what themes and experiences are uniquely American. She came up with this initial list:

"Themes that quickly come to mind:
Immigration
Expansion/Exploration
Race and the history and legacy of slavery
Opportunity/The American dream and the idea/myth of success achieved purely through one's own efforts"

I can see Paul's view of the GAN is valid, but also agree with "American experience" being a closer definition of what I thing the GAN should be too. As such, it's a great idea to have a GAN shelf, as opposed to try to nominate just one GAN book, since I don't think it's possible for one book only to encompass all of what that awesomely varied "American experience" might be from coast to coast, with the huge multitude of cultural backgrounds the USA is made up of.

I'm sorry I waited for Terry Pratchett's demise before I started reading his books, but at the same time grateful I've finally discovered him for myself. The man was a sheer genius, and it's true enough he might well have written books in any genre under the sun, including Booker contenders, but his reasons for sticking to fantasy are highly respectable. Plus, one can't help but realize it was just that much more fun for him to put his mind to peopling his wacky Discworld universe!

eta: first comment written before I'd seen your addendum.

What a great list, Joe. Love, love, love Adventures of Kavalier and Clay and The Good Earth. I still haven't gotten around to reading The Master Butcher's Singing Club yet. Yikes.

>17 Smiler69: I don't think it's possible for one book only to encompass all of what that awesomely varied "American experience" might be from coast to coast and encompassing the huge multitude of cultural backgrounds the USA encompasses. Well put - I agree. It's more interesting this way, too - I don't think we'd every get a group of eclectic readers like we have in the 75ers to agree on (or come close to agreeing on) a single GAN.

I also agree Pratchett was a genius, but have to admit I still haven't found the joy in reading his books that so many others have. I keep trying, most recently with his Mort. I like them, but don't get the same kick I hear about from others. I did love Good Omens, the one he did with Neil Gaiman.

>18 cameling: Isn't that a great list, Caro? If we lived in the same city, we could make The Master Butcher's Singing Club a book club selection!

I realized there's no Cormac McCarthy on our GAN list. I suggest the horrifying but so powerful Blood Meridian. Does that one qualify for the GAN shelf?

Oops! just noticed I used the word "encompass" THREE times in that blurb! eek! May I re-edit? (eta: done!)

My first Pratchett was Small Gods on audio and I have to say I found his send-up of the inquisition absolutely hilarious. Definitely recommend that one!

Joe, in your list at >12 jnwelch:, the touchstone for The March goes to March by Geraldine Brooks. To confuse the issue more, they both deal with the Civil War... If I remember correctly, limelite specified Doctorow's book when he mentioned it.

>20 Smiler69: You're so eloquent, Ilana, I didn't even notice that you over-encompassed your comments.

I'll give Small Gods a try. I've also had The Wyrd Sisters recommended.

>21 katiekrug: Ha! You caught me, Katie. I noticed the same thing, but I couldn't remember which March it was. I'll switch it to the Doctorow.

Happy new thread, Joe!

Not weighing in on the GAN discussion because I can't decide for myself what I think it should represent. I am, however, keen to keep an eye on the list...

The Right Stuff isn't a novel. It's non-fiction.

>23 scaifea: Thanks, Amber! Feel free to circle back if you get a GAN epiphany. I'll keep adding to the list in >12 jnwelch: if we get more nominees.

>24 weird_O: Hmm, you sure have a point, Bill. The Right Stuff has been compared to In Cold Blood as being a "nonfiction novel" (obviously Wolfe is using his imagination for some of it), but I consider In Cold Blood to be nonfiction. What do others think?

I consider both nonfiction. I'd never heard of a "nonfiction novel" so I read the Wikipedia entry. It doesn't mention The Right Stuff as an example.

Further expanding my idea of what a GAN is, it's told through the story of "regular" people, not protagonists in an actual historical/momentous episode. I could probably think of exceptions, though... :-P

Happy New thread, Joe!!

Thanks for supplying the GAN. It seems to be a fair list. There are still 8 of those, I have not read.

I loved Blood Meridian but I think it is the most challenging on there, so I may hesitate, including it. I also loved The Yellow Birds but I think it might be a bit soon. I think Empire Falls or Gilead, could easily be substituted.

Huckleberry Finn

>29 weird_O: That is quite an oversight, Bill. I agree.

And no Toni Morrison?

Happy New Thread, Joe. Gorgeous opening as always.

>29 weird_O: - Can't believe I didn't think of Huck Finn, one of my favorites!

>28 msf59: - Empire Falls is so, SO good. I sure hope you include Russo in next year's AAC, Mark!

Hmm, I've only read four on the list. Looks like I've been quite the slacker. I can say, though, that all four I've read are rightly on the list of possibilities for "Greatest American Novel," each for different reasons.

My Antonia
Lonesome Dove
To Kill a Mockingbird
Invisible Man

ETA what about A Tree Grows in Brooklyn and Killer Angels?

>26 katiekrug: Ah, the perils of Wikipedia, Katie. My son and his friends used to re-write the articles when they were kids for the fun of it.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about: "Although factual, the book (The Right Stuff) allows itself liberties in the description of events and, for example, the re-creation of conversations or the thoughts that someone may have had." eNotes Studyguides. From Encyclopedia Britannica: "Nonfiction novel: story of actual people and actual events told with the dramatic techniques of a novel. The American writer Truman Capote claimed to have invented this genre with his book In Cold Blood (1965)."

GANs should be told from the POV of "regular people", not historical figures. I like the idea, but Ragtime may be an example of a GAN that uses historical figures and events well.

>27 connie53: Thank you, Connie!

>28 msf59: Thanks, Mark. You may be right about Blood Meridian, but why would you leave it off? I'm curious.

I had the same feeling about The Yellow Birds you did - it seems a little early. There's something to be said for the test of time. Empire Falls and Gilead are great suggestions. The former hasn't lasted as well with me, but it's legit for sure. I like Lila at least as much as Gilead, but so much of Lila ties in to Gilead that, for that and other reasons, Gilead does seem the better pick. Going up there to put them on the list in >12 jnwelch:.

>33 Storeetllr: I was just coming here to nominate A Tree Grows in Brooklyn!

>29 weird_O:, >33 Storeetllr: I think Huckleberry Finn is such an obvious choice that no one chose it! Same goes for Moby Dick, which isn't on the list yet either.

>29 weird_O: Good one, Bill. Adding Huckleberry Finn.

>30 msf59: This is why we need our collective thinking, right? Which Toni Morrison, Mark? I've read Beloved and Sula.

>31 Ameise1: Thank you, Barbara. I'm glad you like the opening. He's an interesting artist, isn't he? Many of his have an eerie feel to them, that for some reason makes me think of the "other" world in Coraline.

>32 katiekrug: Ditto, Katie.

>33 Storeetllr: Yeah, this list can be inspiring for all of us, I'm sure, Mary. Good picks. I liked both your new suggestions, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn and Killer Angels. On the list they go.

>35 laytonwoman3rd: Hi, Linda. Good to see another fan of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.

Yeah, we should put Moby Dick on the list, said the reluctant proprietor. I can't resist posting my review from a few years ago:



"I can't remember ever feeling like I finally crossed the finish line after reading a book, but that was my experience with Moby Dick. I was determined to chase it down and harpoon it, even if it took me down with it.

It was published in 1851 and must have a zillion or so reviews and papers written about it, so I'll only make a few comments. Apparently Melville thought no one had really explained whales well enough to the public, and this novel was the perfect opportunity to do so. And he took full advantage of the opportunity, from noble forehead and missing nose (that's why they have blowholes) to the tippy tip of the tail (fluke). We get to find out about spermaceti, a white waxy substance in a sperm whale's head cavity that was used for candles and ointments (sperm whales can internally heat it or cool it to help them descend or ascend in the water), and ambergris, another waxy substance produced in the digestive system, often used in perfumes back then (now we use synthetics). Ishmael is effusive about ambergris's wonderful floral smell, despite its somewhat icky origins. Chapter after chapter of the novel educates us enthusiastically about one whale body part or another, or the written history of whales, or artistic depictions of whales, or weather vanes in the shape of a whale, and on and on. I think there may have been a whale merchandise store tucked in there somewhere.

And what about Ishmael? We know that's what we're supposed to call him, but who is this guy? An experienced sailor who decides to try being a whaler, okay. But how does he come to know everything there is to know about whales, and an awful lot about other things as well? Shouldn't he be a university professor somewhere? And what a vocabulary! This is not a sailor you could find in a catalog. And Ahab never seems to notice him, probably because he's all caught up in debating with Starbuck, then making goo-goo eyes at him as they share deep soulful thoughts, or in telling Stubb to clam up for god's sake.

Am I glad I read it? Sure. There are long stretches that are terrific, and wow, do I know a lot about whales now. Plus I just couldn't imagine showing up at the great library in the sky and saying no when the librarian asks, you've of course read Moby Dick, haven't you? I say no, my request for a celestial library card is rejected, and I end up you know where. So yes, I'm glad I read it."

How about The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne?

Another good addition, Erik, thanks. I'm unlikely ever to read The Scarlet Letter, particularly given my well-read daughter's bitterly hostile response to it, but it sure has its adherents. I'll add it up in >12 jnwelch:.

>38 Oberon: >39 jnwelch: I loved The Scarlet Letter when we read it in high school and have read it several times since then. I read in an article that one of my ancestor's wives (not the one from which I'm descended though) was the inspiration for Hester Prynne. I have often tried to picture my ancestor as Rev. Arthur Dimmesdale since I read that.

The Scarlet Letter is excellent.

This seems an appropriate read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/18/books/review/why-are-we-obsessed-with-the-grea...

>42 katiekrug: Great! I remember reading that, Katie. I love Cheryl Strayed. Adam Kirsch raises some new candidates we haven't mentioned yet; we'll see whether any resonate with the cafe patrons.

I like the idea of the Great American Poem, too - Allen Ginsburg's America is a good candidate; I might put Howl ahead of it.

So far, nobody caught my link to the Roth satire up in >12 jnwelch:. :-)

>40 thornton37814:, >41 katiekrug: I know my English prof BIL would strongly agree with you, but this one probably isn't in my future. Still belongs on the list.

>34 jnwelch: Okay, I relent. I should not exclude Blood Meridian from the list, for being dense and difficult. There are other worthy GAN nominees, that could also fit that bill- Moby Dick & Faulkner, for example.

I am glad to see The Scarlet Letter included.

I would most likely select, Beloved, as my Morrison pick, although that is another dark and disturbing selection.

>44 msf59: Thanks, Mark. Phew! I'm a big fan of Blood Meridian, although it's dark enough to be shelved in Mark's Man Cave.

Yeah, Beloved makes sense to me, too - I've seen it mentioned as her GAN elsewhere, maybe in Katie's linked articles? I'll add it.

In 4 hours your thread has grown with 18 posts! Respect!

>46 connie53: Ha! Thanks, Connie. We're all putting our thoughts in about the Great American Novel. It has become quite a list up in >12 jnwelch:.

"I just couldn't imagine showing up at the great library in the sky and saying no when the librarian asks, you've of course read Moby Dick, haven't you? I say no, my request for a celestial library card is rejected, and I end up you know where. So yes, I'm glad I read it."

Lovely.

I have a limited edition of the thing I bought as an investment. If I end up not loving MB, then I can at the very least recoup my initial outlay...

>48 Smiler69: Ha! Thanks, Ilana. I'm glad you enjoyed that. We've all got to read Moby Dick, right? Your limited edition approach is the savviest I've heard of.

Yes, the Cafe is hopping with book love! A thing of beauty.

Wow - I blink and discover you are over 50 posts into your new thread!

>12 jnwelch: - Love the list! I see some books listed that are sitting on my TBR bookcases and others that I have loved, although I have to admit to having never heard of Accordion Crimes, Ship of Fools, The Yellow Birds or Killer Angels. My favorites from the list - that I have read - are Lonesome Dove, To Kill a Mockingbird, Gilead and Empire Falls.

I would love to nominate Suttree to the list but I am probably in the minority on that one.

Although not written by an American, Nabokov's Lolita is, under the guise of its alarming storyline, a celebration and critique of American culture. As such, it's very much a Great American Novel.

(ducking the anticipated rotten fruit)

I've read a few on that list, would consider Philip Roth or Paul Auster, Stoner by John Williams. Trying to think of a woman writer, probably The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.
I just finished The man who loved children by Christina Stead, an Australian, but the novel is definitely an American one. I've noted on a couple of threads already but Jane Smiley has written a really brilliant essay on it - http://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/jun/10/featuresreviews.guardianreview29

Anyway I called in for a pick-me-up coffee to go with the barazek biscuits I'm about to bake -

Oh, hey! I've read Gilead too, just a month or so ago, on the strong recommendation of a number of LTers, probably including Joe, and maybe you too, Lori.

Killer Angels is a Pulitzer Prize winner (1975) about the Civil War~ actually, the 4 days of the Battle of Gettysburg, tho not just the fighting but the emotional experience of the participants. I thought it was amazing and have always meant to read it.

>16 jnwelch: Great themes--I would just expand the first:

Immigration/Assimilation

To your list of GANs I would add Sister Carrie by Theodore Dreiser, which encompasses immigration/assimilation and The American Dream.

>37 jnwelch: Oh dear. I'm about to embark on the Evanston Library's Mission:Impoosible--a year-long reading/discussion of Moby Dick. Now I'm worried.....

>50 msf59: This is fun, isn't it, Mark? A thing of beauty indeed.

>51 weird_O: OK

>52 lkernagh: Hi, Lori! I know, we've had a lot to talk about in this new cafe. Isn't that a great list? Accordion Crimes and Ship of Fools are new to me, too. I can heartily recommend The Yellow Birds (Iraq War), and Killer Angels (Civil War).

I've yet to read Suttree, so you're inspiring me on that one. I'll put it on the list in >12 jnwelch: and see whether it draws any comments.

>53 ffortsa: Ha! The fruit we throw here is all fresh and delicious, Judy. That's a take on Lolita I didn't expect. I'm going to create some new categories up in >12 jnwelch:, so I'll figure out one for that.

>54 avatiakh: Hi, Kerry. Great American Novel - I'll put The Heart is a Lonely Hunter on, how's that?

Thanks for the Smiley tip on The Man Who Loved Children.

Takeaway coffee to go with the barazek biscuits, okay:



And some extra biscuits:



>55 Storeetllr: Gilead is so good, isn't it, Mary. And I loved Killer Angels, too. His son, Jeff, has written some good ones, too, some set in the Civil War and others in other wars. But Killer Angels is in a league of its own.

>56 kac522: Nice - thanks, Kathy. I like Immigration/Assimilation. I've never read any Dreiser. Onto the list Sister Carrie goes.

>57 kac522: Ah, it will all be okay, Kathy. You just need to scull the big waves, and keep going. If there's going to be discussion about Moby Dick along the way, that undoubtedly will help. Plus once you're done, you'll be able to rest easy about getting into that celestial library.

Great new thread, Joe! I love the opening images, but I am concerned about the rabbit in the first one and the woman in the last one. How are they supposed to walk, or even stand upright, with feet that are smaller than their noses?

>60 kidzdoc: Thanks, Darryl! Glad you love the opening images - you have a keen eye. We may have to help the rabbit down the ladder, as those feet do look small. Or maybe it's just the head looks huge - the rest seems proportional, doesn't it? I suppose we could help with the head when she comes down.

As for the woman in the bottom image, I'm hoping that's a doll's foot or something like that, and that the woman actually has much larger and quite capable feet under the dress.

Gosh, we just got a few of the photos from our son Jesse's wedding. This one has me, the lovely bride, our beloved daughter Becca, and the lucky groom. Fingers crossed it will show up here from dropbox. This was taken at the rehearsal dinner, with Madame MBH taking another with her camera at the far right.

Not working, so here's some temporary C & H:

I considered it an Olympic Gold Medal accomplishment l when I finished slogging through Moby Dick.

What a great picture of you guys!

>62 jnwelch: Ha! We could probably have a most excellent gathering of successful Moby Dick sloggers,Caro.

>63 cameling: Thanks! We all had such a good time that night. Here's one of the bride and groom on the big day:

Not working, here's some temporary C & H:

OK, one more and then I'll stop pestering you with these. It was such a nice surprise to have them appear this morning - there has been a lot going on in the newlyweds lives! This one has Madame MBH entertaining the officiant and the best man, and her goofy husband, at the rehearsal dinner.

Not working, so here's some C & H in the meantime:

How wonderful wedding photos. You can be very proud, Joe.

>67 Ameise1: Thanks, Barbara. We love Adriana to pieces, and it was a wonderful event. Really fun to have the photos show up.

Hi, Joe! Love the new batch of photos. Looks like some very happy people.

Hope you stay in for lunch. It is sticky and unpleasant out here.

>69 msf59: Hi Mark! Thanks - it was very happy occasion.

Good tip on the weather outside - I'll probably at least shorten my walk. Sorry you've got some crummy weather for your return.

Love this thread and all the posts on it. Everyone giving so much thought to the GAN Shelf idea. Intrigued by discussion of nonfiction novel (I prefer to call it creative nonfiction because the other is oxymoronic), and that got me to thinking that some of the GANs, according to the commenters' opinions on what qualifies, are American play and musicals.

Raisin in the Sun
The Rainmaker (not the Grisham novel, the Nash play)
Death of a Salesman
Oklahoma!
Our Town
etc.

Yes! I'd definitely root for "Kav & Clay" it's SO American -- the comic book fer gawd's sake.

But I got critical, too. I think some of our suggestions are "small" novels, perfect as (what I term) Little Gems but lacking the "Techniscope" qualities of a GAN. In that regard, help me please. While I adore Russo's writing, Empire Falls seemed to have two themes that stick with me: the "company town" and the "high school experience." Are those two alone big enough to encompass America as we wish to consider it for the GAN? Open to arguments pro and con.

It breaks my heart to suggest that Haruf's oeuvre, while it deeply resonates with the American ideal of the "rugged individualist" hand-in-hand with the "community coming together," feels more like Little Gem material. Ivan Doig, IMO, comes closer to the GAN goal. Will the Committee of the Whole consider his Whistling Season eligible? And what about Richard Ford's Independence Day?

Then something else struck me. Maybe instead of, or in addition to the GAN Shelf, we might put together the Great American Novelist Hall. Don't throw that shoe at me, please!

My Antonia seems like a really strong contender for Top Dog. I say that because I'm listening to it in CD format, not having re-read it since a teen-ager. I'm floored by its simple beauty. It's a love song to the Prairie and that whole American Spirit idea, covering ruggedness, community, religious tolerance, bigotry, the building of a country out of a frontier, the Land and Wide Open Spaces. My vote's caught in a tie between it and LD, with LD taking a slight edge because "literarily" it's superior.

This topic is HARD.

I can't see the wedding pictures!

And I only read Spaar de spotvogel of that list in >12 jnwelch:.

>53 ffortsa: Although Nabokov was born in Russia, and lived in various places in Europe before coming to the U.S., he did become an American citizen in 1945; the Encyclopaedia Britannica refers to him as an "American author"; he is included in the Library of America's publications; and his work was nominated for the National Book Award (only awarded to U. S. citizens) several times. Lolita was written in English, published here in 1958, and therefore qualifies on all fronts as an American novel. Whether it qualifies as one of the GANs is something I'm not going to comment on, as I haven't read it.

>72 connie53: I'm not seeing the wedding photos either.

>71 Limelite: Yahhh... This topic is hard. I agree that many of the novels that have been proposed are "small" novels. Personally, I think selecting THE GAN is impossible. Hall of Fame, sure. One novel better than all others, we'll never agree. Hey, but we'll have fun arguing about it.

>71 Limelite: Lots of good thoughts, Lime. I'm glad you're enjoying the GAN shelf discussion.

I like your "creative nonfiction" idea, and I'll make that switch. It matches what I'm pretty sure my wife's storytelling community calls their personal narratives - there's some license to make the stories entertaining, as Wolfe and Capote did.

Doing this for plays and musicals (GAPs and GAMs?) is a great idea, but I'm afraid of sending my horse charging off in too many directions at the same time. I'll stick with GANs for now, and maybe we can do the others down the line. You've come up with some excellent starters.

It's good to discuss the limitations of some of the suggestions. I'm thinking we may have a vote at some point, and see what people view as the top candidates. I wouldn't put Empire Falls up there either, but others might.

Ai-yi-yi, I'm putting my hands over my ears when you talk about Haruf. I may not have a ton of company, but Plainsong might be my pick for overall winner. What a book! And for me the scope is wide, even in small Holt, Colorado. Like My Antonia, IMO, another one I'd put high on the list.

I'm not a Richard Ford fan, but I'll add Independence Day, and The Whistling Season, which I think someone else mentioned, too.

You're right, this topic is hard.

>72 connie53:, >74 weird_O: Sorry you can't see the wedding pics! They're from dropbox, so that may be the problem. I was afraid no one would be able to see them, so I'm glad at least a few folks could. I'll see if I can figure out anything tomorrow to make them accessible to you.

ETA: they're gone now, darn it. Dropbox probably has some kind of time limit code or something. I've had the same problem before with Pinterest. I'll see if I can fix them tomorrow.

>73 laytonwoman3rd: Thanks for the good info, Linda. I didn't know any of that about Nabokov. I haven't read Lolita either, so comments are invited re GAN-ness.

>74 weird_O: Yes, I agree this is one hard topic, and we'll never all agree on one GAN. I love the list so far, and the arguments for and against.

I love C&H. I wish Watterson hadn't stopped drawing my favorite little boy and his toy tiger.

>77 cameling: You and me both, Caro. I keep hoping that maybe he's creating some drawings of them that we'll see some day.

I don't think there is such a thing as the Great American Novel. A novel is either good or bad. End of story. I don't believe that a novel can capture some things and the idea that there is one novel that can be about all things American is just mind boggling.

And I can't believe that nobody has put Gone With the Wind on the list. If there is such a thing as a Great American Novel, then surely that potboiler is the Great American Novel. It has everything in it. Immigration, war, childbirth, hunger, struggle to reach the top, thwarted love, unrequited love, etc. etc. etc., all set in a new American city that is building itself from the ground up in a new era. What's not Great American about that?

And Gone With The Wind glorifies a way of life built upon the blood and sweat and travails of our brothers and sisters who were enslaved. I refuse to even consider it as a Great American Novel just as I would not consider Mein Kampf a Great German book. My opinion. That's all.

I do think making a list of Great Books which could be found in The Hall of Great American Books could be good fun.

I'm sorry I can't see your photographs, too. Love Calvin and Hobbes and recently met a kitty named Hobbes in honor of our stuffed animal buddy. I'd love to see more!

Hey Joe, nice to check in and find lively discussion going on at the café. Not surprising, of course.

"The" Great American Novel. Hmm. This sounds to me like an impossibility. I have to agree with Ilana (and others?) that "the American experience" is too varied to be captured by one novel. There are, as your list in >12 jnwelch: starts to capture, so many great novels, each of which captures a great American experience. Or an aspect of it.

Where did the notion of the GAN emerge anyway? It's a phrase I've heard for my entire life. Do they talk about the Great English Novel, or the Great Japanese Novel, or the Great South African Novel in those countries?

>62 jnwelch: I saw the image of you at your son's wedding when I looked earlier today. I wonder what happened to make it go away.

Enjoying all the Calvins and Hobbeses, though.

Now, with all the additions, it appears I've read 8 of the novels on the GAN list.

I'm with Maggie on GWTW, partly for her reasoning plus because I simply could not stomach the character of Scarlet. I never got past the first few chapters and have never had the desire to try again or even watch the film, though Rhett's most famous line in it does align with my own thoughts.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I luuuuurve Calvin & Hobbes!

>79 benitastrnad: Interesting point, Benita. But a GAN list with nothing on it would be no fun at all, right? Plus authors and readers have been preoccupied with the idea of a GAN forever. See, e.g., Katie's link to the NY Times article up in >42 katiekrug:,

Hard to keep Gone with the Wind off a GAN list, you're right. Much as we all might want to. (I say that in ignorance - never read it). I'll add it.

>80 maggie1944: Yeah, I feel the same way about Gone with the Wind, Karen. But we'll list it, and see how folks vote down the line.

I like the Hall of Great American Books idea, too. We'll work on this Great American Novels wing, and maybe do more later. I also want to keep in mind Limelite's idea about plays and musicals.

When I clear my desk a bit, I'm going to see whether I can get the wedding photos back up in a way that they'll stay up.

>81 EBT1002: I'm enjoying this lively GAN discussion, too, Ellen. Glad you are.

I have no idea where and when the idea of the Great American novel started. It's been around my whole life, too, and is ingrained in our thinking, as exemplified in that linked article in >42 katiekrug:. Looking back, I see Cheryl Strayed identifies an 1868 article in it.

So far we've had no one say that the Japanese or Italians or English or wherever also wonder about the Great Country Novel. Is there something in our national character that yearns for a single novel that captures the American experience?

It does seem impossible for one book to do that. I'm glad we've expanded the concept to encompass many books.

>82 Storeetllr: Yeah, I'm not sure what made the wedding photos go away, Mary. Glad you caught them. I think dropbox doesn't want its proprietary set up to allow easy copying. Same with pinterest, I guess. With both I can post temporary copies, but they disappear eventually.

Calvin and Hobbes always bring a smile, don't they? I can see why it would be hard to keep that exceptionally high level of quality going on a daily basis, but I still hope somewhere he's doing a few here and there that we'll see some day.

8 read on the GAN list sounds good. Let me go look. I made a concerted effort to get to what I thought of as "classics" a few years ago, so I'm up to 22 on the list. There are a few on there I'd never heard of before, like Accordion Crimes.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if GWTW was the most disliked on the list of candidates.

>83 EBT1002: Me, too, Ellen - can you tell? :-)

BTW, I finished Claire Tomalin's Jane Austen: A Life. Excellent - Austenites and casual fans alike should enjoy it. I may not have time before we leave to review it or Between the World and Me, Ta-Nehisi Coates' powerful and disturbing analysis of American racism in letters to his son, but I highly recommend both.

I wonder if the idea of the GAN is tied somehow to the idea of American exceptionalism? I think I read somewhere that the term was first used in the 19th century somewhat ironically or satirically.

To me, Gone with the Wind is not much more than a fun, pulpy read. A soap opera on a grand scale. The fact that it's a celebration of a way of life that's been largely discredited is also a strike against it in my book (ha - punny!), as is the fact that I don't think it's particularly well-written.

Who knew a discussion of the Great American Novel would make me so opinionated?!? Joe, you're very kind to let us all blather on about it on your thread :)

>87 katiekrug: Happy to have everyone blather here about the Great American Novel, Katie! I've been known to blather a bit meself. Opinionated = interesting, so thank you for all your comments. That link to Strayed and Kirsch was very helpful, too.

Yeah, the idea of American exceptionalism might well tie into our obsession with the idea of a GAN. We're such a fascinating country, in our own mind, that we long for someone to capture the experience?

Your description of Gone with the Wind makes perfect sense to me. I've read that it's not particularly well-written, which is indeed another strike against it.

>87 katiekrug: American exceptionalism indeed. So many Americans are obsessed with the idea of "Number One!" "The Best!"Discussing it in any category can be fun, until someone gets hurt. Haha.

Not surprised you ended up loving the Tomalin JA bio as I agree it was excellent. Between the World and Me is definitely on the tbr.

>89 weird_O: :-) Truth.

>90 Smiler69: Tomalin's an ace, isn't she, Ilana? I need to read her Charles Dickens bio, which has gotten so much acclaim. Yes, can't wait until you read Between the World and Me. He nails it, IMO. There's an interesting question I'll ask you once you've read it.

Morning Joe! Happy Wednesday! I am enjoying following the GAN discussion. I think it works better as a discussion, than actually making a selection, which will be very difficult and contentious.

I am enjoying The Rosie Effect. Don continues to be such a fun literary creation.

I will start The Bell at lunch. Dun, dun, dun...

Happy Wednesday, Mark! The GAN question does make for an enjoyable discussion, doesn't it? Also gives me some ones I haven't read and need to check out.

Oh good. I had fun with The Rosie Effect, too. Don's a hoot. I was just telling someone about him at the playground.

Good luck with The Bell. However it goes, I can tell you about my reaction.

OK, let's try it again with the wedding photos. Fingers crossed.

Yours truly, with new family member Adry, beloved daughter Becca (seasonsoflove) and the lucky groom (Jesse):



Debbi (walklover) entertaining the officiant, best man, and her goofy husband:



The parents of the bride and groom:



The stars of the show:

Great photos, Joe!

>95 kidzdoc: Hurrah! Thanks, Darryl. I think these will stick around - I used the circuitous route via my profile.

Here are the stars and all the bride's- and groom'speople (Jesse had groomsmaids, too):



The pro photographer, Shana, is a friend of the bride and groom, and did a terrific job.

ETA: Here's the group with the flower girl added:

Love the photos! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Katie! Long story, but most of the time I can't access Facebook, so it's fun to share them here.

>96 jnwelch: Groomsmaids! What a delightful idea. I have seen one or two weddings with a "Man of Honor", but this is the first time I've seen female attendants for the groom.

>99 laytonwoman3rd: I thought that was cool, too, Linda. Really nice young women.

My husband had a Best Woman instead of a Best Man (his sister). He was afraid it was weird but I think one should stand up there with whoever is most important to them.

>101 katiekrug: Exactly, Katie. Kudos to him. I think it's less weird now by a long shot. And if someone is appalled, as my wife would say, screw 'em.

If I'm allowed to observe. . .the wedding party is a stand up group. Wishing everyone in the photos many happy days as their families grow. Isn't it a grand thing when our kids marry good and interesting people who are easy to love?

My D-i-L is Laotian, ambitious, energetic, generous, kind, clever, funny, a great cook and wonderful mom. I absolutely adore her!

About GWTW, all things considered, I think its a more qualified candidate than Moby Dick if our requirements are based on the American experience. If we base eligibility on the most 'literarily' accomplished, then the qualifications probably exclude GWTW. Now this quandary may require us to maintain two divisions of the GAN -- one based on Americanism (if you will) and the other on Literariness. I'd rather merge the two "divisions' so that our criteria are the best told and most beautiful story of what America is and/or how it got this way. However, under those requirements, I'd still feel the whale novel wouldn't qualify but the romance of slavery would.

What about novels of wide scope that include Native Americans?

The Travels of Jamie McPheeters
Thirteen Moons
Caleb's Crossing
The Winthrop Woman
Little Big Man

Why hasn't there been superb American fiction about the Lewis & Clark expedition, or the great overland migration west on the Oregon Trail? It's been done for the Oklahoma Land Rush: Cimarron by Edna Ferber. Anyone here care to sit down and write one about L&C and the OT?

>96 jnwelch: Hmm. I can't see this photo.

>103 Limelite: Actually, there is a novel about Sacajawea which I read many many years ago, pre-LT, but as I recall it was pretty good.

>105 laytonwoman3rd: Anna Lee Waldo's doorstop, Sacajawea? I haven't read it. May be one of the few on this topic not intended for YA readers. Although, I had in mind a book that involved the political conflict Jefferson faced and the personal conflicts among the explorers that follows L & C beyond the trek itself to the end of their lives.

But the Sacajawea saga probably deserves to go into my teetering TBR pile. Thanx!

>103 Limelite: Isn't it a grand thing when our kids marry good and interesting people who are easy to love? Amen, Lime. Wonderful comments. We absolutely adore our new DIL, too. Funny story: his friends say they knew she was the one because Jesse is a talker, that is, he talks a lot, as he's filled with ideas, but when they saw him with her, he just quietly listened to her, mesmerized. Ha! I know what they mean - I'm not as much of a talker as he is, but I sure like to listen to Madame MBH.

GWTW vs. Moby Dick: if we're going to compare to Moby Dick, a whole of books would come off better in the realm of entertainment, or storytelling (Americanism?), as far as I'm concerned. But to me great writing would be an essential component of the GAN, and Moby Dick surely is filled with great writing, while GWTW isn't, by all reports. All the ones I've nominated feature great writing, IMO. What do others think on that score?

Great idea re novels of wide scope that include Native Americans. The only one I know of the ones you list is Little Big Man, which I want to get to some day. I've heard of the others, except The Winthrop Woman. I'm going to put them all on the list so we can think about them. I feel like we're missing ones. I'd nominate The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, except in my mind it's a great book that doesn't reach the GAN level. I wonder whether Sherman Alexie will blow us all away with one some day?

You're right - there have been some great NF books about L & C (the Stephen Ambrose one comes to mind), but I'm not aware of a topnotch, GAN-worthy, novel about that or the OT.

>104 kidzdoc: Huh, I wonder why you can't see it, Darryl. I used the same process. I'll do it again and see whether that helps.

ETA: How about now?

>105 laytonwoman3rd: I remember Sacajawea selling like hotcakes way back when, Linda.

ETA: >106 Limelite: I haven't read Sacajawea either, Lime. If anyone has, please let us know what you think of it.

Now I can see it. Fabulous!

>108 kidzdoc: Woot! It should stick around, too.

I read a lot of Anya Seton's books when I was in high school, including The Winthrop Woman, (also I remember Katherine, Green Darkness, Avalon). As I recall them, "historical romance' would be a good way to classify them, and I believe my English teacher at the time had a particular expression she'd wear when she saw me carrying one around...and it wasn't approval! Again, I'm tempted to pick one up and see what I think of it now. I think she may have been the Philippa Gregory of her day.

I still don't have a lot to say about the American novel, but love the pictures (and the lovely story about your son meeting his wife - so sweet).

Thanks for sharing the great wedding photos, Joe! What a good looking bunch and i like the idea of groomsmaids! Cool!

50 pages into The Bell...I like it.

Ooh, see, that's what I get for skimming. The article Katie linked to in >42 katiekrug: is excellent.

And thank you for the wedding photos -- so nice to see you and Debbi and groom-son Jesse all looking so happy.

I love those pictures Will Lavender , one of my all-time favorite authors, for my book blog!! It's one of those ultimate thrills for a reader, to get to interview a favorite author, and I wanted to share the interview with all of you :)

http://thebookkeepersapprentice.blogspot.com/2015/09/author-interview-will-laven...

Lovely pix Joe. Congratulations!

If I may add to the GAN list: Snow Falling on Cedars was a huge hit when published and I still remember it moving me so much.

>110 laytonwoman3rd: Ooo, Anya Seton sounds like an author my esteemed wife might like, Linda - she does enjoy Philippa Gregory.

>111 charl08: Thanks, Charlotte. I'm glad you enjoyed the pictures - isn't that a lovely story of the two sweethearts? They're quite a pair.

>112 msf59: Ha! Glad you've enjoyed the photos, Mark. I thought the same thing with the groomsmaids. He has a bunch of people in his life who we enjoy. The wedding week was a blast.

I thought you might like The Bell. The combination of unlikeable characters and so much "church" just sunk my boat with it. Over on your thread, I mention that you'll get a kick out of Rat Queens. I'm looking forward to reading the second volume. Velvet Volume 2 is a knockout!

>113 EBT1002: Isn't that article Katie linked for us in >42 katiekrug: excellent, Ellen? I read that column every week, but often it's meh for me. That one is a standout.

You're welcome for the wedding photos - it's fun to share them. It was a very happy time. We're all so glad he and Adry found each other. We love her parents, too.

>114 seasonsoflove: Hey, young lady! Aren't those pics great? The first is a good one of you, yes?

So cool that you got to interview Will Lavender for your blog! Kudos to him for being such a mensch about it. I'll go over and read it after this. Thanks for the link.

>115 NarratorLady: Thanks, Anne! We're really happy about it - they make a great team.

I loved Snow Falling on Cedars, too, way back when. Madame MBH not so much, I'm not sure why. The Japanese imprisonment aspect is an important, shameful part of U.S. history, for one thing. I'll put it up on the GAN list.

Speak: A Novel by Louisa Hall was a very good David Mitchell-esque tale of the profound effect artificial intelligence doll companions have on U.S. children and vice versa, as well as the story of some directly or indirectly involved in their creation, including Alan Turing. Thought-provoking, particularly as we race along in developing robots and AI.

Now I've started the newest Inspector Gamache, The Nature of the Beast.



On the GN front, Rat Queens was funny and fun, and I'm looking forward to reading the second one.



I'm thoroughly enjoying the second volume of Velvet by Steve Epting, featuring spy in trouble Velvet Templeton. The story just keeps getting better.

>114 seasonsoflove: Oh my, what a great interview of Will Lavender in your blog, Becca! http://thebookkeepersapprentice.blogspot.com/2015/09/author-interview-will-laven... Well done!

One of my favorite parts was his hatred of plot outlines, and his alternative way of writing. I noticed that every book by another author he mentioned, you've read and loved!

Oh, Joe, you have such a handsome family! Lucky guy, as are they, eh? Thanks so much for sharing all those fantastic photos.

>120 scaifea: Thanks, Amber! We all felt very lucky, I think, on that special occasion. My pleasure to share the photos. Makes me smile every time I see them.

Not So Sweet Thursday, Joe! Fingers crossed, that it clouds up this afternoon.

Both Speak & Velvet sound good. I will have to make requests!

Now that summer is coming to an end, I must thank you Joe for being the reason this will always be known to me as "The summer of Georgette Heyer". I snobbishly avoided these books without understanding how clever they were and thanks to your review of The Grand Sophy, I gobbled up three more.

When next you dip into the Heyer pool, I can heartily recommend Cotillion and Frederica. Sophy may be the best of the bunch but the others were also hugely entertaining. They won't be my last but now on to more serious fare. It is back to school time, after all.

Isn't it funny that although my and my children's back to school days are long gone, I still think of September as more of a beginning to the year than January?

I suffer from thinking September is a great way to celebrate a new year, new beginnings, starting something, and enjoying new clothes, new literary toys (pens, notebooks, calendars), and just generally loving being alive. The cool weather helps.

>122 msf59: Ha! I'll still call it Sweet Thursday, Mark. I'm sure Doc and the guys put up with their share of suboptimal weather. :-) Word on the weather app is it will cloud up and rain down here, so I hope you get some of it (maybe let the rain hold off until you're home, beverage in hand).

I'm stoked about Velvet, and I look forward to your helping me with the ending of Speak!

>123 NarratorLady: Oh great, Anne, I love to hear that. I was similarly misguided about Georgette Heyer, which wasn't helped by my trying a middling mystery of hers. Now my butterfly brain can't remember which LTer waxed enthusiastic about The Grand Sophy, but I'm sure glad she did. (If you read this, please raise your hand). Which three did you gobble up? I've had Cotillion, The Corinthian and Arabella recommended to me.

Oops, maybe it would've helped if I read the next paragraph. Cotillion, check. Frederica, new to me. We're about to take off on vacation next week, so more serious fare is off the menu for me. Back to school time? I blithely ignore any such concept. Although I've given thought to taking a class or two myself.

I know what you mean about September and the grownup kids. Plus up until a few years ago I used to teach in the fall (nothing literature-related, unfortunately). It feels like the beginning of the year to me, too.

P.S. You've read D.E. Stevenson, right? E.g. Miss Buncle's Book?

>124 maggie1944: I like your choices for suffering, Karen. I'm going to try to suffer those, too, although my MBH is more of a literary toys/office supplies buff.

Beautiful photos, Joe. So glad you all had a wonderful day!

Hot steamy day ... trying to stay cool with a light read ... I might settle for Murakami's latest Wind/Pinball

>125 jnwelch: yes, Joe, I've read Miss Buncle and the sequel. Haven't read any more D.E. Stevenson although I know there are quite a few. Next summer perhaps?

>126 cameling: Thanks, Caro; glad you like the photos. We sure did have a wonderful day! I'd even say wonderful days - the rehearsal dinner was a blast, with the bride-to-be and her padre singing Mexican folk songs, among other things, and the day after was great for family get-togethers at the hotel and a nearby restaurant.

>127 NarratorLady: Oh, good, as long as you know about Miss Buncle, I'm happy. I'm up to the fourth one (The Four Graces). I'd liked her Mrs. Tim of the Regiment, too. Charming books.

Thanks Dad! He and I definitely have very similar tastes in books!

>129 seasonsoflove: Ha! I can tell, Hon. He seems like a really good guy. And I hear now you've got an interview you're going to do with Ami Polonsky?

I'm enjoying the new Inspector Gamache mystery, The Nature of the Beast, very much. I need to find out why what's happened happened, and who's behind it! Plus of course it's great to be back in Three Pines with Armand and Reine-Marie and the gang.

I think I'm going to go to Redshirts on my Kindle, after a sterling recommendation from Mary. I'm also continuing to work on The Warmth of Other Suns as a long term project.

I LOVED the second Velvet Templeton GN, Velvet Volume 2. Great spy caper with a kickass protagonist. Now I've started The Surrogates, an intriguing concept (we all get to experience reality via surrogate bodies) that was made into a pretty good Bruce Willis movie a few years ago.

Poetry: the new Dean Young.

Morning Joe! Happy Friday! I loved the introduction to Wind/Pinball. I hope the rest is, as good. LOL.

I am behind on the Three Pines series. Hope to catch up.

>132 msf59: Morning Mark! Happy Friday!

Wasn't that introduction to Wind/Pinball excellent? Worth the read for that alone. We'll see what you think of the rest.

She keeps the quality at such a high level in the Three Pines series. No wonder she's getting the big crowds for her author appearances. Plus she seems like quite the decent human being.

Love the pictures! I can see them! Yeah.

>134 connie53: Great! :-)

In a country with so much history, and varied ethnic cultures, I think a GAN Shelf makes much more sense than one book. I would like to add The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien and/or Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes, both of which are excellent examples of America at war in Viet Nam.

>136 DeltaQueen50: Good point, Judy, and nice picks! Loved both of those. On the list they go.

>131 jnwelch: Oh, the pressure! Hope Redshirts works for you!

>138 Storeetllr: Ha! I started it, Mary, and so far so good. Lots of concern about those away missions. :-)

>125 jnwelch: Wonderful photos, Joe although I did like the C&H standins! Another Heyer fan here. One of my favourites is These Old Shades. Highly recommended! Shouldn't you be getting ready for your trip by serving up tea and crumpets or something?

Might have missed hoping to see you enjoyed Speak: A Novel, ..... Have a great weekend, hope summer is still holding for you all

>140 Familyhistorian: Thanks, Meg. Ha! Yes, if we're going to have standins, let's make them C & H, right?

Oh good, another Heyer to look forward to. These Old Shades - thanks!

The trip grows closer - can't wait. Tea and crumpets - what a good idea!



>141 roundballnz: I did enjoy Speak: A Novel, Alex. Thanks for the rec! It's up in >118 jnwelch:.

The weekend is off to a most excellent start, with a visit from ace blogger-daughter Becca and her furry companion Sherlock. It's still hot here - going to get near 90 F, 32 C - so summer is holding on. Hope you have a great weekend, too.

Morning, Joe! Happy Saturday. The humidity feels like it has lightened up a bit. I am hoping it remains cloudy for a few more hours.

I am enjoying Wind/Pinball. The first story reminded me a bit of Norwegian Wood. I am now into the second story.

Enjoy your long weekend. The son and I are going to the Cubs game tomorrow. First time at Wrigley, in a long while.

Ah, scones, what a lovely idea. Here it's close to dinner time. We have spaghetti.
Happy weekend, Joe.

>143 msf59: Oh good, Mark. If you liked the first story in WInd/Pinball, I think you'll like the second even more. You can see his development. Interesting comparison with Norwegian Wood for the first one.

Oh great - what a time to see the Cubs with your son! We live about a mile and a half west of Wrigley Field (we walk to the games), so you'll be in our general area.

Ate a bag of Cheetos for breakfast this morning and I felt like I was 12 again. Haha..

I'm really likeing Wind/Pinball. The introduction was so interesting. I never knew he owned a coffee shop/ bar. I would love to see if I can find the place the next time I'm in Tokyo .. if it's still there even if it's owned by someone else.

>144 Ameise1: Glad you like the scones idea, Barbara. I'm a pushover for spaghetti. Happy weekend to you.

>146 cameling: Wasn't that intro to Wind/Pinball excellent, Caro? I'd known some of the backstory, but not in that detail. That would be wonderful if you could find that coffee shop/bar he ran. I'd read about his epiphany at the ballgame, but again, his description is so vivid here.

The stories in Wind/Pinball are so much better than I expected, given his reluctance to have them published here. Now somehow I need to find the time to re-read A Wild Sheep Chase, the third in the Rat Trilogy these two start.

I'm glad he finally agreed to have them published. I haven't read A Wild Sheep Chase yet, but after his reference to it, I've got that on hold at the library. :-)

>148 cameling: Good for you! A Wild Sheep Chase was a wild and exhilarating read; I think you'll get a kick out of it.

Wow. Just found this thread. Love the idea of a Great American Novel shelf. Some additional nominees, if I may:

McTeague by Frank Norris and An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser sprang immediately to mind. Certainly the latter.

Given his considerable influence over American fiction over the past 40 years, I personally couldn't imagine such a shelf without at least one Philip Roth novel. I guess American Pastoral would be the work I'd nominate for this shelf, or possibly The Human Stain.

Finally, I'd suggest The Natural by Bernard Malamud. What could be more GAN than Greek tragedy reworked into a baseball setting?

I love the idea of the "Creative Nonfiction" category. To that shelf I'd add The Executioner's Song by Norman Mailer.

That GAN list is getting longer by the day! Love to follow it.

>151 connie53: Me too. Just stopping by to add some more GAN suggestions to the wishlist...

i would like to offer One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and House made of dawn for consideration for tGAN and for non fiction Michael Harrington's The Other America: Poverty in the United States, and Gödel, Escher, Bach: An eternal golden braid. i should say that while i read G,E,B i understood only the least little bit and of course that, as we all know, means a book must be Truly Great! i suspect that the autobiography of Alice b. Toklas ought to be in there too, but i haven't read it. another indication that it's a Truly Great Book. oh, and probably Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States.

back to occasional lurk mode. :-)

i'm not at all sure that Johnny got his gun shouldn't be in the fic list.

oh and how about . . .

(i hate when they cut to commercial while i'm still gabbling) . . .

>150 rocketjk: Good to see you, Jerry! Glad you found us.

I put all of those on the list. I'm a fan of The Natural, too. Good call on the creative nonfiction Executioner's Song.

>151 connie53: Glad you're enjoying the GAN list, Connie. Me, too. I thought we might have reached the end of the nominations, but not yet!

>152 charl08: I know, Charlotte. Lots of valuable to-read suggestions up there on the GAN list.

>153 mirrordrum: Glad you de-cloaked the spaceship, Ellie.

Lots of good suggestions there. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was a knockout, wasn't it?

I did read The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas, but it's been so darn long I don't remember much from it. I'll leave it off for now - maybe an enthusiast will come by and endorse it.

We haven't had a category for great nonfiction by Americans, so I added one. But then I closed it - seemed like there'd be an awful lot of candidates. If folks disagree, please let me know.

We're waiting patiently through the commercial (fast forward doesn't seem to work) for you to finish . . .

Morning Joe! Happy Sunday! Getting ready to leave for the Cubs game.

It feels like I am paddling, in your biblio-wake, (not a bad place to be, to be honest): I finished, Wind/Pinball, liked it, I am nearing the end of The Bell, which I am also enjoying and I just started Wayward. I recently finished The Rosie Effect too. And to top it off, I think my next audio will be the last St. Marys book, (for S & S) which I am sure you have read. Whew!

Hope you are having a fine holiday weekend, my friend.

>156 msf59: Ha! Happy Sunday, Mark! Have a great time at the Cubs game. Looks like a nice day for it, although you'll have to drink some cold beers to keep yourself cools. Hardship, I know.

We do have major league overlap in our reading tastes, don't we? I'm often following in your biblio-wake, most recently with Between the World and Me. I'm probably more likely to go on a series binge, and you read more topnotch NF than I do.

Hope you're having a great weekend, buddy. I know you can't work today or tomorrow, right?

Hey there! Can I put in a plus for Breathing Lessons by Anne Tyler for the GAN shelf? Or Digging to America?

Morning, Joe! Happy Labor Day!

>158 PrueGallagher: Good morning, Prue. You bet. I'll put both on. I've yet to read Anne Tyler; I need to fix that. I thought Dinner at the Homesick Restaurant might be your pick. Her new one made the Booker long list, although I've seen mixed reactions to it on LT.

>159 scaifea: Morning, Amber! Happy Labor Day! Hope you all are having a good one. So far we've got a long walk, reading, and watching some U.S. Open tennis on the agenda. That's my kind of agenda. Oh, and we need to finish packing for the upcoming trip.

Here's a fun 2006 NY Times article on the GAN, that begins:

"More than a century ago, Frank Norris wrote that "the Great American Novel is not extinct like the dodo, but mythical like the hippogriff," an observation that Philip Roth later used as the epigraph for a spoofy 1973 baseball fantasia called, naturally, "The Great American Novel." It pointedly isn't - no one counts it among Roth's best novels, though what books people do place in that category will turn out to be relevant to our purpose here, which has to do with the eternal hunt for Norris's legendary beast.

The hippogriff, a monstrous hybrid of griffin and horse, is often taken as the very symbol of fantastical impossibility, a unicorn's unicorn. But the Great American Novel, while also a hybrid (crossbred of romance and reportage, high philosophy and low gossip, wishful thinking and hard-nosed skepticism), may be more like the yeti or the Loch Ness monster. It is a creature that quite a few people - not all of them certifiably crazy - claim to have seen. The New York Times Book Review, ever wary of hoaxes but always eager to test the boundary between empirical science and folk superstition, has commissioned a survey of recent sightings."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/arts/16iht-scott.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Some overlap with our picks, but also some departures, including Updike, who landed on LT with a thud (dud) in last year's AAC Challenge.

Happy Labor Day, Joe! I hope you have a good day planned. I have a couple of house chores, before Sue returns, but it will mostly be, me and the books and the Cubs and the Cardinals.

Thanks for sharing the NYT quote. LOL. I agree, pinning down the GAN, is a toughie!

>161 jnwelch: Happy Labor Day, Mark! You bet - isn't that an interesting take on the GAN?

We've had a great start to the day with a lonnnggg walk with a fascinating friend of ours. She's "retired" but running three non-profit organizations. Now Sherlock is busy lowering my blood pressure by napping on my lap while I read the amusing Redshirts.

Hope the Cubs do well against their nemesis the Cardinals. What a roll the Cubs have been on! Glad you and your son were able to lead them to a victory in their last game.

Nice to read you are being Doglapped. My dog is sitting on "her" chair watching squirrels out the slider door. Fun!

Happy Labor Day!

#161> Great quote. And while I agree that The Great American Novel is not among Roth's best novels, I highly recommend it to baseball fans, as it is probably the funniest baseball novel I've ever read, and also one of the best. Relatively speaking that's a bit of a low bar, maybe . . .

Up thread somebody nominated The Natural for the GAN. I can't address that novel, as I have never read it, but I think that Bernard Malamud is a very underrated American novelist. His novel The Assistant is a book that I still think about from time-to-time. It addresses so much of the issues and angst of the mid-twentieth century, and it does not paint a rosy picture of the American Dream.

I am going to defend my nomination of GWTW. This one novel had a profound effect on the psyche of millions of Americans. It may be a fairytale, but people believe it. That makes it an important novel and should make it rank right up there with Uncle Toms Cabin.

Personally, I put it in the same category with that greatest of all Southern fairy tales - To Kill A Mockingbird. If you nominate TKAM then GWTW needs to be nominated as well, since the character of Atticus Finch was the same as that of Mammy or Prissy - pure fiction in that they both perpetuate stereotypes.

>164 maggie1944: Happy Labor Day, Karen! I bet you're enjoying it in your new home. From the views I've seen, I'll bet Greta has fun watching out the sliding door. Sherlock made sure to get plenty of rest on my lap
so he could greet his human mom with appropriate enthusiasm when she got back.

>165 rocketjk: Glad you liked that quote, Jerry. You certainly make Roth's book sound intriguing. I'm trying to think about a good, funny baseball novel I could compare, and right now I'm drawing a blank - I keep thinking football, Billy Lynn's Halftime Walk and North Dallas Forty.

>166 benitastrnad: Interesting arguments to support Gone with the Wind, Benita. It's up there on the list - we put it on as soon as you nominated it.

Woo, I wouldn't put GWTW in the category of To Kill a Mockingbird. Garfield may be just as much of a cat as Hobbes, but I'd sure pick Hobbes. I can't see the character of Atticus Finch as the "same as" that of Mammy or Prissy, even if they're perpetuating stereotypes. And TKAM is so well-written, which is not the rep of GWTW. But the debate's part of the beauty of trying to identify GANs.

I am not and never have been a fan of that fairy tale "To Kill A Mockingbird." The reason - there were no Atticus Finch's in the South and our desire to believe that there were puts us in the same category as those who think GWTW is accurate history. I simply don't understand why people like TKAM and revile GWTW. Seems to me that if they like the one they should like the other. What's not to like about Scarlet O'Hara? The way I see it, she and Atticus Finch have lots in common. From what I have heard Go Set A Watchman bares that out. I have no plans to read GSAW because being forced to read Lee's first novel was enough for me. There are to many good stories out there waiting for me to read them to waste time on GSAW.

GWTW and TKAM may both be cats but neither one of them are cats I want in my house.

Love the wedding pics! Everyone looks so happy and relaxed.

>96 jnwelch: groomsmaids!! I love it, what a fabulous world we live in now when best men can be women and bridesmaids and groomsmen are interchangeable.

>170 LovingLit: I was recently a "bridesmate" at good friends wedding recently .....

GAN convo is interesting to watch, especially from an outsiders perspective

>168 benitastrnad: Ha! Fair enough, Benita. I find the Atticus in TKAM inspirational, personally, and I got quite caught up in the stories of Scout and Boo. But it's refreshing to find someone who's not a fan of the fairy tale To Kill a Mockingbird and has good reasons why. If you equally dislike both GWTW and TKAM then it makes more sense to me. For me, TKAM is superbly written, and if GWTW was, I'd look at it differently.

>169 banjo123: Glad you love them wedding pics, Rhonda! Everyone was, amazingly enough, happy and relaxed throughout. My wife thinks the rehearsal dinner set the tone - everyone saw how much the two families appreciate each other and that we were having fun being together (we'd gotten together with the bride's parents in Chicago and Houston before the wedding, and had a blast together), and just took it from there. The rehearsal dinner was a relaxed good time, highlighted for me by the bride and her father singing together. Madame MBH also gave a funny and warmly welcoming toast that hit the spot.

>170 LovingLit: Isn't that cool, Megan? Such interesting young women, too - I had spent time with two of them before, and had heard a lot about the third. I agree - this is the way it should be. We've got a long ways to go on so many things, but occasionally what we do makes good sense. I'm a big fan of that son of ours - what a surprise, right?

>171 roundballnz: Excellent, Alex. I'm sure the bride much appreciated your being a bridesmate. It's a such a special occasion in people's lives.

Glad you're enjoying the GAN convo from NZ. Any thoughts on the choices?

Redshirts was a fun read, with a sweet ending. Now I'm greatly enjoying Signs Preceding the End of the World by Mexican author Yuri Herrera, set on the Mexico/U.S. border. On the Kindle I've started The Ranger by Ace Atkins, which is rec'd to Jack Reacher fans like me. So far so good. I should get my copy of the new Jack Reacher, Make Me, today.

Morning, Joe!

>173 jnwelch: *snork!*

>175 scaifea: Ha! Morning, Amber! That *snork* gets me every time. :-)

Ace Atkins is an Alabama author. His father played football at UA and he played at Auburn. In fact, Ace Atkins was on the cover of Sports Illustrated back in the day before he became a famous Pulitzer Prize reporter. I have his novel White Shadow and have been trying to get it listened to for some time. Other noisy books keeps interfering. White Shadow is based on the murder of a county attorney in Phenix City, AL back in the 1950's. I hear good things about this author and I haven't read any of his books. (Probably because I wasted time reading TKAM.) He now lives closer to Oxford, MS than to anywhere in Alabama. That might be because Oxford, Mississippi is a more hospitable environment for the literati since it is the home of Square Books and some famous writers. In fact Oxford is making something of its literary reputation and using it as a tourist hook.

>177 benitastrnad: Wow, thanks, Benita. I knew none of that. I first came across him when he wrote an extension of Robert Parker's Spenser series - and it was well done, a rarity in my experience (extensions almost always have been a disappointment).

You've also got me interested in Oxford, MS and Square Books now.

Is this the SI cover? A Seattle mystery blog thinks it is.

When do you leave for the UK, Joe?

I'm not touching that TKAM / GWTW nonsense. Oh, wait. I think I just did ;-)

Hope you enjoy the short work week!

That's the one. The guy on the ground is a Heisman Trophy winner. Or a future Heisman winner. Atkins did live on the coast of Alabama - Fairhope, or Gulf Shores, some such place, but moved to a farm outside of Oxford, MS. Oxford is a great place to spend a weekend. I had been through there, but when I attended Booktopia back in 2012 I spent three wonderful days there in the heat of the summer. From what I hear, Oxford on a football game day now is what Tuscaloosa was like 20 years ago on a game day. Makes me want to make a move to Oxford.

>179 katiekrug: Ha! I was waiting for our opinionated GAN enthusiast to say something about that TKAM/GWTW nonsense, Katie! I love Benita's strong opinions on books. Also, that we can debate without someone getting upset.

We leave tomorrow! Can't wait!

I'll be able to check in to LT, but I'll be hamstrung on posting images, as my iPad software update screwed that up so much that I haven't figured out a way to post images from it like I used to. (Don't you love those "beneficial" software updates?)

I could do short work weeks every week!

>180 benitastrnad: How amazing. Thanks again, Benita. If Ace ever writes his memoir, he's going to have an awful lot of material to work with. That seems like three lifetimes he's got going, and he's still a young guy.

Oxford sounds ideal for a fall visit. I'd want to avoid the summer heat if possible.

>176 jnwelch: You should hear it in person... *grins*

>182 scaifea: Ha! I look forward to it. :-) I have a sister who snorts when we really get her laughing - which only makes us all laugh harder.

Morning, Joe! Wow! Last work day, huh? Sounds fantastic. I am looking forward to following your travels.

Hope you have all your vacay books ready to go. Any Meet-Ups planned?

>183 jnwelch: Oh, yes, I'm nicely acquainted with the snort-loop, as I suffer from that affliction myownself.

>181 jnwelch:

"Ô capitaine, mon capitaine, bon voyage!" but merrily to London go. Have a great time!. Think you could take an informal survey of Londoners and ask them what their opinion is in re the Great British Novel? Heh heh.

Heck -- while you have their ears, ask them the same about the GAN. That could be très amusant.

PS The French is for fun since you're going to a non-'American speaking' country that would make Sara Palin's eyes roll more wildly in her head.

>184 msf59: Afternoon, Mark! Yes, getting the decks cleared for departure.

We're going to meet up with Darryl this Saturday, and other times after that, including a trip to Banksy's Dismaland, which should be a hoot. It looks like we'll see Sakerfalcon (Claire) and Drachenbraut23 (Bianca), and quite possibly others from around London. Looking forward to it!

>185 scaifea: One of my favorite laugh inspirations, Amber. Hard not to appreciate the humor when there's snorting going on. :-)

>186 Limelite: Thanks, Lime! Ha! Maybe I'll try the Great British Novel question on folks, although I suspect they'll look at me like I'm crazy. We'll be taking a Jane Austen tour, so at least I know several I'd put on the GBN shelf. GAN - they'll probably chalk it up to more American looniness.

I believe Sarah Palin can see England from her back door (and Russia from the front). Yes, we're going to get hold of an English phrase book so we can communicate with the natives. No doubt they'll think we're barmy and tell us to belt up.

I won't be able to post images while on our trip, so we opened a new cafe earlier than usual. See you there!