JoeB1934 Reads Literary Fiction and Mystery Books

Early in 2023 I discussed methods for finding and reading Literary Mysteries. It was titled 'JoeB1934 Finding and Reading Literary Mysteries.'
The link to that chat is: https://www.librarything.com/topic/349260#n8333353

After finishing that report during the remainder of 2023, I cast a wide net to create a 450 TBR list that was built on my searching for such books as well as books mentioned by other members. These efforts led me to a list of 47 books which were memorable enough for me to list them in a separate posting.

A second thing I learned is that just because a book is labelled as a literary fiction/mystery book doesn't mean I will like the book. I pretty much just read a book in audio format, so wasting time on a book can result in 8-12 hours of very valuable reading time. (Which at my age is not great).

In retrospect, I concluded that I had learned that since tagging in LT is very sporadic and mostly what I call bookkeeping by nature rather than genre-like the most consistent tags that I should look for were those identified as 'literary fiction', with and without being tagged as a 'mystery'. I also concluded that many of the books in my TBR were of marginal interest to me.

These thoughts led me to an effort to use LT features that would allow me specifically to search for books that are tagged as 'literary fiction' AND 'mystery'.

Such searches can be accomplished using the 'Tagmash' feature and the 'Recommendations' feature. I describe how those features work for me at the bottom of the chat I mentioned at the introduction of this posting.

A major advantage of using these LT features is that they cast a wider net than I would normally do, with as a consequence identifying authors that I might not search for.

My objective in further postings will be to itemize the books that have interested me and to identify those books to which I formed an emotional attachment.

I am not a reviewer by nature so my reaction to a book will be on a more personal nature. I too am looking for my 5-star books but I have learned that every book has a range of stars from 1-5. My 5-star book can easily be a 3-star for you.

My initial effort using these concepts resulted in 25 books that I will start the year with as my Wishlist. As I find audio versions, if they are available, I will report on them. Additionally, I will be adding/deleting books as they appear to me.

Since the book cover titles are somewhat obscure I presnt the listing below.



It should be noted that my expectations about new authors to me certainly came true with this list.

Welcome back for another year of Club Read, Joe. I have been so inspired by your analysis of your reading, and it has inspired me to think more about my own choices. I look forward to following along again this year. Happy New Year!

>2 JoeB1934: You have some interesting books planned. I really loved both What Was Lost and The Collector and I look forward to following your reading in the new year.

Wish you a great 2024 Joe, with great reading. Interesting first 25. I would scare you off Edgar Sawtelle if I could. It has a nice first half and terrible second half. The rest of the books on your list sound great or are new to me. Which Edith Wharton do you have in mind?

>3 JoeB1934: I’ve only read The New York Trilogy and All That I Am from your list. I really enjoyed The New York Trilogy which I read in print, but was disappointed in All That I Am (audio). I reviewed the latter on my 2023 thread but probably best to listen to it before reading reviews.

Looking forward to your new reads!

>3 JoeB1934: I couldn't put The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox down when I read it. Stayed up almost all night!

>6 dchaikin: I got the idea from kjuliff recently. The book title is actually Edit Wharton: Stories My normal reading chocies have never ventured in that direction and the talk about Edit Wharton by readers I follow was very tempting.

labfs39, RidgewayGirl, Kjuliff, dchaikin, I want to thank those who have expressed an interest in my reading choices.

Also, the fact that some of my choices have been read by some of you is also encouraging that I might be on a useful track, as I didn't choose them because of any of your postings.

I have come to the place where I abandon a book when I learn more about it from a review, or comments by other readers. So, don't hesitate to provide me with negative outcomes.

I usually go to GR and read what that universe has to say about any book. It is remarkable to me how individuals can rate a book as a 3 when I think it is a 5. I find that most often I am an easy grader if I have created an attachment to characters in a book.

I recently had a conversation with another LT member about a book that she had actually abandoned, while I placed it on my most memorable list. It turned out that the most important feature was precision in historical details and clarity while I was deeply tied into the plot and the individuals in the story.

>9 JoeB1934: Wharton is lovely. Worth trying a story or two.

>10 JoeB1934: I will definitely re-read some of the reviews here on LT and pick a couple to read.

My first new book of the year is: The Recognitions by William Gaddis

This kept coming up as being related to other books that came out of my Tagmash queries, so I decided to look at it.

The Publisher blurb is the following:

The book Jonathan Franzen dubbed the "ur-text of postwar fiction" and the "first great cultural critique, which, even if Heller and Pynchon hadn't read it while composing Catch-22 and V., managed to anticipate the spirit of both”—The Recognitions is a masterwork about art and forgery, and the increasingly thin line between the counterfeit and the fake. Gaddis anticipates by almost half a century the crisis of reality that we currently face, where the real and the virtual are combining in alarming ways, and the sources of legitimacy and power are often obscure to us.

I actually have acquired two versions of the book, a Kindle and an Audio. Only to discover that the audio is over 45 hours long. So, if anyone is familiar with this book, please enlighten me. I plan to shelve the 2 copies I have and move on to other books.

I have placed a hold on The Museum of Failures by Thrity Umrigar but the wait will be 12 weeks at the DPL. I have decided if I want to wait,or use an Audible credit I received for Christmas.



Meanwhile, my next reading choice is: To Track a Traitor (A Lane Winslow Mystery, 10) by Iona Whishaw which DPL doesn't have but I used a credit to obtain from Audible.

Is your head spinning with the odd mixture of books I am listing here? These two books were chosen by me because of their mix of genres and they rank high in a measure I find myself using a lot.

If you go to a book page that gives details on a book there is a section labelled LibraryThing Recommendations. What follows is a display of similar books as recommended by other readers of this book. In that listing there are check marks by similar books that I have read. In these cases I have read over 10 similar books and that encourages me to put these books on my list.

>10 JoeB1934: Thanks for the mention Joe. After reading a couple of novels about several nasty events in 20th century Germany I needed something to refresh my mind and looked through your list. I’m currently reading and enjoying The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox. So thanks Joe.

>15 kjuliff: The DPL has a 12 week hold on the book. How did you get your copy?

>16 JoeB1934: I was indeed surprised. I got mine at the New York Public library. I’ve only just started. I just finished my review of Stasiland so reading Ths Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox is a breath of fresh air.

>13 JoeB1934: sounds fascinating. But that would be quite a commitment.

>18 dchaikin: That's what I am afraid of. In your literary travels has this book ever come into your world?

I just went to GR and read quite a number of reviews. As per usual there are anywhere from 1 star to enthusiastic 5 stars. I concluded that the book is too erudite and nuanced for me, so I do not plan to read it. However, since I have 2 versions at my disposal I will dip into it and see for myself what it is about. Most readers think the writing in Part 1 is the most understandable.

Interesting list! Look forward to following along in 2024.

>19 JoeB1934: I’m vaguely aware of William Gaddis and what he wrote. Well, maybe vaguely (at best), but i haven’t read him. I’m interested, though.

>20 AlisonY: I hope to provide some interesting books that you might not have had occasion to run across.

A Longstanding hold from 2023 If On a Winter's Night a Traveler by Italo Calvino just became available to me so I am adding it to my wishlist of books for 2024.

It is a Kindle book, rather than audio.

Earlier I mentioned the book The Recognitions by William Gaddis and that It's length was too daunting for me, but that I would still take a look at the book by reading an earlier bit of it.

I listened to part of Part 1 and found it to be very interesting. My interest is heightened because the base format is recounting of stories about people and the more philosophical thoughts are included via the way the stories are told. I am not knowledgeable about literary 'styles' but I imagine dchaikin would digest this book with relish.

>24 JoeB1934: noting

>23 JoeB1934: Calvino is another author I haven’t read but would like to. I have some of his books around the house (unread).

I’m still enjoying The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox but can’t work out what to read next. All my on hold books are showing over 16 week waits.

>26 kjuliff: One of my memorable books from 2023 was The River We Remember: A Novel by William Kent Krueger. It is classed as a mystery, but the story is really about people in a complex US situation. The author is a very strong literary writer.

You might look at reviews of the book. I think you would really enjoy it. The environment is what I can imagine existing in Australia.

>27 JoeB1934: Thank Joe. I will check it out, as well as your 2024 list.

Hi Joe, good to see you here. I just got the ebook of All Sinners Bleed by S.A. Cosby. I saw you gave it a 4.

I read one book by Calvino, Invisible Cities and I hated it. One star.

>29 dianeham: I am curious about your hating Invisible Cities. Was it the magical realism dimension? It is a 4-star book, on average, but I haven't read it.

How's this for an opening statement in a book?

You are about to begin reading Italo Calvino’s new novel, If on a winter’s night a traveler. Relax. Concentrate. Dispel every other thought. Let the world around you fade. Best to close the door; the TV is always on in the next room. Tell the others right away, “No, I don’t want to watch TV!” Raise your voice—they won’t hear you otherwise—“I’m reading! I don’t want to be disturbed!” Maybe they haven’t heard you, with all that racket; speak louder, yell: “I’m beginning to read Italo Calvino’s new novel!” Or if you prefer, don’t say anything; just hope they’ll leave you alone.

Calvino, Italo. If On A Winter's Night A Traveler (p. 3). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

The page goes on from this start, with a long discourse about how to make yourself comfortable while reading a book. The advice is good, but hilarious to see it as a leading into a real book.

Cute. And I would follow his advice, if I get around to reading it.

>30 JoeB1934: I’m sorry - I don’t remember.

Just dropping by to wish you a Happy New Year, Joe! Looks like your reading is off to a great start!

>34 VivienneR: So is yours, as I look forward to getting more BB from your reading.

I imagine you are all aware of 'mission creep' as used to describe the natural process of initial objectives being slowly but surely increased for what seems to be obviously good reasons.

My original Wishlist of books for 2024 was around 25 books, but this morning it is almost doubled. Every time I look at the threads from you all I see a book that appears to be really good to read. Then, of course there are all the lists of 'most anticipated new books of 2024'. This is a real problem for me, and I will have to re-analyze my new Wishlist in order to do some trimming.

>36 JoeB1934: if you were to trim - I noticed you had the cover of All That I Am - I’d remove that if you intended to get it in audio. It is not well narrated. I reviewed it last year.

>23 JoeB1934: I studied If on a Winter's Night a Traveler and wrote a paper on it back in the eighties. It was my favorite of the books we read in a class on postmodern novels.

If you liked the first two Thursday next books, I suspect you'll enjoy The Well of Lost Plots. That one runs together with Lost in a Good Book for me; neither is quite as wonderful as The Eyre Affair, which is one of my all-time favorites, but I enjoy them a lot.

I've added you to my interesting libraries list as I'm interested in literary mysteries and you seem to have a bunch that I'm not aware of.

My most recent read isn't technically a literary mystery, but it is an excellent mystery book from Sweden.


This is about an 89-year-old woman who is intent upon living her life the way she wants to do it. In order to achieve her plans, she doesn't let an occasional murder get in the way. Technically she is a serial-killer, I suppose, but each one arises when someone crosses her by being a 'bad' person who is interrupting her plans, or causing harm to a friend. A societal vigilante of sorts.

She is very creative about accomplishing each murder in a way that the suspicion of her is diverted by her adroit use of her age and sex. Ultimately, she avoids ever being caught and at the end of the book she is living where she wants to be and helping out others who have been short-changed in some way by life.

This is not a thriller, or a classical mystery where you wonder who did-it. Instead, it is a study of the mental processes and thinking of someone simply trying to do what they perceive to be in the best interest of herself and others.

It is a solid 4-star for me. And she is my age!

>38 Jim53: Wow! Am I impressed with anyone who has taken a class in postmodern novels. I am currently 'reading' If on a Winter's Night a Traveler and I can see that my technical, rather than literary training is a handicap for me. Nevertheless, I will produce soon my reaction to the book from my perspective.

I learned quite a few years ago that I prefer literary mysteries without knowing the category even existed. Ever since then I am always scouring book listings to find more such books.

Do You have a Club Read 2024 where your reading choices will be listed?

While reviewing my expanded Wishlist for 2024 I decided that a very obvious first step was to focus on the books that I consider very strong literary mysteries. Then I could continue to search for, and place holds on that list.



I have other books that are more pure mysteries, or literary fiction books that I tend to go off on what is really a side-track from my main focus. There are enough on this list to keep me occupied.

One issue that is raised when I look at versions available for these books is the lack of audio on some of them. So, I will have to get Kindle warmed up for my use.

Additional books which are supplemental candidates for my Literary Mystery focus. I might go to some of them if I am looking for more audio versions.

These two lists could easily take all of 2024 to process. My processing goes like this:

1) Search for an audio version.
2) If the step1 is successful place a hold.
3) If step1 is unsuccessful obtain a kindle version.
4) Once I have a copy at hand read about the first 50 pages and, depending on my reaction/mood finish the book, or drop it.

My most valuable asset is reading time and I have come to the stage where I can't squander it on a book that would not be valuable to me. There are innumerable books that are suited to me and finding those to read is paramount.

>43 JoeB1934: How many holds can you have in your library? I only have 3 in the NYPL and I have 3 sitting there showing 16 weeks to go. I feel like taking one off and replacing it, but I don’t think there’s any was to see the wait time before placing the hold.

>44 kjuliff: The DPL allows 15. Last year I signed up to the Brooklyn library for $50 and it also allowed 15. I can't imagine that the NYPL doesn't have a number like that. Also the DPL has a way of saying how many other people are waiting in line. Surely NYPL is that good.

Are you using Libby to keep track of your holds. It allows you to have multiple libraries in your account.

OOPS, I forgot about your reading handicap, so maybe this Libby idea is nonsense. Even so I can't believe the NYPL limit. Is it because you are using the blind account? Any regular account for any public library would allow you to request only audio books.

Like Brooklyn for example and they have extensive audio books.

It depends on exactly how you qualify "literary," but I found Tana French's Dublin Murder Squad to be fairly literary, in the sense of focus on the prose, style, structure, etc as opposed to just story. I quite liked the prose, as well as the stories themselves. You might try those, if you're still looking for ideas.

>46 Julie_in_the_Library: I have read every Tana French book, and she definitely writes literary mysteries. I wish she would write more.

What you see in my current choices are extensions beyond the literary mysteries I have read in years past. Overall, the years I have read around 250 literary mysteries as defined by multiple sources. By my count I can add about 400 more that possess the literary and mystery tag combination.

Hi Joe! I noted in one of your lists above a inclusion of The Well of Lost Plots by Jasper Fforde and a notation that this list has to do with authors who are new to you. If I've read that right and Fforde is indeed a new author for you, than I would strongly advise you to read the first book in the Thursday Next series, The Eyre Affair before reading TWoLP. There is not much plot in The Well of Lost Plots, mostly a humorous and extremely imaginative mucking about in the world introduced at the beginning of the series. So I strongly recommend The Eyre Affair as a first Fforde. That said, I absolutely love this series.

All the best with your reading.

>48 rocketjk: Will take your advice.

>45 JoeB1934: the NPL limit is set at 3 for everyone, and yes I use Libby for that library. Andrew Heiskell Braille and Talking Book Library Is the NYC branch of national libraries for the visually impaired.

It has no holds for books downloaded and its interface is an app called BARD. You can also get cassettes - some visually -impaired people can’t use BARD and order cassette tapes. There’s probably there a hold for those.

But it doesn't have all the latest versions of audio books so what I do is
a - check on Audible to see if there’s an audio of what I want.
b- If there is I check NYPL on Libby and borrow if available
c - If not I check BARD and if it’s available I check whether it’s a new edition by checking that the narrator is the same as thee one on Audible and if so get it.
d: If not I go back to Libby and put on hold if I have less than 3 hold spots which is unlikely.

It takes me forever. Currently I have no room left on my holds on NYPL. I can’t join another NYC library because I live in Manhattan. There’s some animus as the other boroughs can’t join NYPL. So they don’t let us Manhattanites join theirs.

Once you put a book on hold the NYPL on Libby lets you know how many people ahead, how many copies, est wait time.

Here is a screenshot of my holds. You will see there is text overlap. That because I have to font size set to the biggest size.

>41 JoeB1934: if i can encourage Memento Mori and discourage The Crying of Lot 49, then I’ve a good day. If you read the Crying, note that it’s supposed to be about the Kennedy assassination, and that I never did figure out what anyone meant by that.

>52 dchaikin: I just started Memento Mori last night and will definitely look at The Crying of Lot 49 with suspicion. Thanks for the input.

>51 kjuliff: That screenshot is really a mess for you. That is really crazy about you not being able to have any other boroughs in NYC.

When I joined Brooklyn it was after a search and I discovered there are numerous libraries across the country where you can join with a nominal fee. I can't remember which ones, but I will do some research for you.

>54 JoeB1934: it’s decypherable. I might try their own reader they mento in the faq - I posted it on my own thread.

I asked the DPL about non-residents and he said no, but he knew Brooklyn and some others do. Then he gave me a link to some that do.

It is: https://bookriot.com/out-of-state-library-cards/

In scanning it Fairfax county seems to have the most audiobooks on the list.

Another link that might help is https://www.9thstreetbooks.com/how-to-get-a-library-card-online

>56 JoeB1934: Joe you still have the Brooklyn access? I paid $50 for an online card at the Queens public library but I didn’t think Brooklyn had it.

>50 kjuliff: Kate, on Brooklyn library website it says:

Brooklyn Public Library's card is free for anyone who lives, works, pays property taxes or goes to school in New York state. There is a limit of one library card per person.

ETA: same is true of Queens.

>57 dianeham: No I dropped it.

>58 dianeham: Thanks looks like I have more options than I knew.

>40 JoeB1934: Joe, I'm over here: Papa Jim (Jim53) reads in 2024. I'm off to a rather slow and scattered start so far this year, due to real life interfering with my reading.

I 'finished reading' If On a Winter's Night a Traveler by Italo Calvino and I will now try to describe my reaction to the book.

(If you happen upon this post while I am writing it, please bear with me as I am finding it difficult to convey my sense of the book)



Before I produce my thoughts, I need to apologize to those of you, like Jim53 who actually have read completely and can explain this postmodern book.

First, as is my wont, I produce part of the publisher's blurb on this book.

"The real Calvino intersperses 10 different pastiches—stories of menace, spies, mystery, premonition—with explorations of how and why we choose to read, make meanings, and get our bearings or fail to. Meanwhile the Reader and Ludmilla try to reach, and read, each other. If on a Winter's Night is dazzling, vertiginous, and deeply romantic. "What makes lovemaking and reading resemble each other most is that within both of them times and spaces open, different from measurable time and space."

In essence, as I demonstrated by my>31 JoeB1934:: this book was written for readers, like you and me, via two readers in the story called at various times 'Reader' and 'Other Reader' as well as real name for the Other Reader as Ludmilla.

The 10 different pastiches mentioned is a key to the book as the two readers are always involved in reading a series of 10 different books, none of which are complete, but their search leads to the next unfinished book.

A reviewer on Goodreads has an ironic way of describing the presence of these books.

"Kinga
481 reviews
2,346 followers

Follow
March 4, 2012
I say this is what happened:
Italo Calvino was suffering from a writer's block. He would start a novel, get it to its first curve and abandon it before the resolution. A few months later he would start another with a similar result. Finally, his publishers got impatient because it had been years since the last novel and they said:
'Italo, get your shit together! We need a new book. Now!'
Italo panicked and did the only thing he could think of. He glued all his failed attempts together and delivered it to the publisher
'Here it is. My new novel'.
'Er.. Italo, but those are just beginning of some 10 different books...'
'Yeah. I know. Don't you get it? It's postmodernism!!'
'Ok...'
'You know, I am playing with the concept of the author. It is basically all about the reader now. The author has become obsolete. It is the reader that creates the work and the author is not even necessary!'
'Ah.. I see... Do we still need to pay you then?'
'Yah. Will mail you the invoice.'

I have read most of the reviews on here and I agree with all of them, with the bad ones and the good ones all the same. If you think this is contradictive and not possible, think again. And one word for you: deconstructionism.
There is no doubt that Calvino is (was) one hell of a writer and he plays with his poor readers like a cat plays with a mouse. This book was an absolute trip and really gets you dizzy. It might or might not be a coincidence that a day after finishing it I caught some weird bug that made me throw up for two days straight./

Within each of the books there are countless characters and interactions among them that I simply couldn't cope with beyond the overall direction of the two readers who formed a romantic connection which culminated at the end of the book.

Calvino clearly was writing to readers like us with a lot to say. The first chapter has about 8 pages where he provides an interesting discourse on all the steps we go through on choosing a book to read. For example, near the end Calvino says:

"You turn the book over in your hands, you scan the sentences on the back of the jacket, generic phrases that don’t say a great deal. So much the better, there is no message that indiscreetly outshouts the message that the book itself must communicate directly, that you must extract from the book, however much or little it may be. Of course, this circling of the book, too, this reading around it before reading inside it, is a part of the pleasure in a new book, but like all preliminary pleasures, it has its optimal duration if you want it to serve as a thrust toward the more substantial pleasure of the consummation of the act, namely the reading of the book.

Calvino, Italo. If On A Winter's Night A Traveler (pp. 8-9). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

One conclusion I came to after this book is that I will approach with caution any postmodernism book. I haven't been aware of this issue in my prior reading, or in the books on my Wishlist. I used Tag Mirror to determine that I have about 50 books in my library which have this attribute. In the near future I plan to investigate what my reaction was to those books that I have read.

>dchaikin: Can you explain to a non-educated literary reader how to recognize 'understandable' postmodern versus 'not-understandable' postmodern books?
I find that I have read 44 'postmodern' books and some of them were all-time favorites, and some were not enjoyable.

For example, one of my most favorite books is The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco. Not every reader tagged that book as such but many did.

Another book Kafka on the Shore by Haruki Murakami had me struggling after about mid-way through the book, and I loved the beginning, but finally dropped it with what I couldn't comprehend.

>63 JoeB1934: definitely not me 🙂 I think it might be a difficult question, regardless. But mostly I read reviews and maybe try things out.

>64 dchaikin: Thanks

The publisher blurb:
Muriel Spark

6,190 ratings869 reviews
A circle of elderly people in 1950's London are regularly phoned by a stranger who says only 'Remember, you must die,' before hanging up.
Dame Lettie Colston is the first of her circle to receive these anonymous calls, and she does not wish to be reminded. Nor do her friends and family - though they are constantly looking out for signs of decline in others and change their wills on a weekly basis.

As the caller's activities become more widespread, soon a witch-hunt is in full cry, exposing past and present duplicities, self-deception, and blackmail. Nobody is above suspicion. Only a few, blessed with a sense of humour and the gift of faith, can guess at the caller's identity.

Genres: Fiction Classics Mystery Novels British Literature Literary-Fiction Literature

This is a stressless read and it kept my attention to the end. I enjoyed it immensely and a solid 4-stars.
.

I am deep into the question about my reading Postmodern books.

I will present a beginning of my analysis later. I'm sure that those members who have read my previous posts will think " there goes Joe off on his analytics analyses."
I hope it will present a better analysis of which postmodern books I should avoid. This won't mean anyone else will have the same opinion about their reading.

I searched my library for the term postmodern and only came up with ten books, one of which was the Scarlet Letter, clearly an error. Anyway, of the ten, I had read five and none of them were clunkers. The five were Slaughterhouse Five, Travels in the Scriptorium, The Things They Carried (not my idea of postmodern, but I'm still learning), The Book of Laughter and Forgetting, and the aforementioned Scarlet Letter.

>68 labfs39: I have done the same thing for my library, read and Wishlist. I have 21 I have read, so I have been reading more than I realized. I wasn't even aware of the term before this year!

I am having trouble even remembering those books, which go back to 2000, 2005, 2016+. So that is part of my issue and what about the 22 that I placed on my Wishlist this year, probably because I wasn't aware of this issue. Most likely will bypass some of them.

Searching for Postmodern Books I Might Like

After reading comments by LT members on various threads about postmodern books I decided to analyze my library using Tagmash to see what I could learn about such books that I have read and some that are on my current Wishlist. My approach to problems like this is usually to gather some analytics about my books which are somewhat described as postmodern.

The first step was to use Tagmash to count my books in various ways.



The first statement is my most basic Tagmash statement for finding books to read that I expect to enjoy. The fact that half of the top 500 books found in LT shows how much I have used this criteria.

Tagmash shows that I have read 36 books that have the fiction and postmodern tags. Since I strongly prefer an element of mystery to my reading I think it is significant that there are 67 books in my library which have the mystery and postmodern tags.

It has been mentioned that frequently postmodern books also contain magical realism so I searched for and found 91 such books in the library. It happens that I accept and enjoy the magical realism ingredient to my reading so it wasn't a surprise that there are 91 such books.

Those of you that look at tags assigned to books in LT realize that the number of members who actually assign tags like postmodern, mystery and magical realism are a small fraction of the total readers of most books. Usually the tags are what I think of as bookkeeping rather than genre-like bookshelves.

The 'mystery' tag is quite easy for most readers, while postmodern and magical realism implies some serious knowledge about literary definitions. I myself didn't understand these terms at all prior to 2021, or so.

These thoughts caused me to determine the tag counts for postmodern, mystery and magical realism for every book in my library that had at least a postmodern tag count of 1. I felt that possessing such counts would help me understand relative strengths of a book in these 3 important tags.

In principle I could inspect each of about 100 books by going to the book detail page for each book and obtaining for that book the desired tag counts, but I didn't look forward to doing that work so I asked fellow LT member bnielsen, who is an extremely good computer analyst with extensive LT to do that task for me.

The next post will demonstrate how useful that was in my determination to find postmodern books I 'might' like to read.

The analysis by bnielsen revealed 115 books in my library that had at least 1 postmodern tag. I sorted the books in descending order by the postmodern tag count and found that books that had a tag count of only 1 weren't that informative so I studied the sorted table to observe what I might learn.

My analysis of the table allowed me to evaluate 'for myself only' each book to arrive at YES, NO, and Maybe decisions about my reading interest. In simplest terms, if the postmodern count outnumbered the mystery count, I would choose to bypass the book.

The table below provides you with my reasoning on the top 11 books in the list.

The complete list down to a postmodern tag count of 7 is displayed below.

It should be noted that there are 45 Yes, 12 No, and 11 Maybe on the list which has 68 books. So, it seems like I can read postmodern books if they contain a goodly amount of mystery to them.

Of course, this analysis needs to be followed up with some more detailed perusal of, especially the books that have high postmodern count as well as higher mystery count to see if I actually like those books.

So, this is really just a start in my developing reading of postmodern books.

From what I know about my reading preferences I like to have a small set of characters that I can relate to and to follow them on their journey through life. Intrusions by intruders that disappear are a distraction in many ways.

Cloud Atlas is one of my favorite books of all time. I'm wondering how you arrived at a "no" for it. Or in general, what your criteria were for making the yes/no decisions.
Also The Book of Illusions is very good. It's a straight forward narrative, and a lot of it turns around early movie making, as the protagonist becomes obsessed with trying to find an Chaplinesque star of early silent movies who disappeared never to be heard from again until,,,,,
Anyway, just wondering about your method, because those two (and a few of the others on your list that I have read) seem to be books you would like.

>73 arubabookwoman: Thanks for your comments,

I really appreciate comments by someone who has read some of these books. My method is rather simplistic in the final analysis and undoubtedly will miss some books I really would appreciate. I looked at the relative magnitude of the postmodern count and the mystery count on the same book.

If the postmodern count is large compared to the mystery count, as in Cloud Atlas (139 vs 54) I tended to bypass the book. In the case of The Book of Illusions the counts were: (33 vs 39) I placed an X on the book, which means I will look at the book in order to decided how the book seems overall. From what you say I will make it a Yes. I will also take a look at Cloud Atlas also as my method might have failed there.

It would be of great help to me if you could list any book on this list that you have read and give them each a Yes, or No. If there are too many slip-ups on my part, it will help me refine it.

New note: I have just read reviews of Cloud Atlas on GR and have decided that I made a proper decision on the book for me . You clearly are more inclined with the jumping around in time and characters. You seem to be more compatible with postmodern techniques than I am.

I also took a look at Book of Illusions and it definitely is a Yes to me now.

I will now review all the books that have an X, which I mean as maybe. Will post tommorow my decisions.

I reviewed the books I marked as X=Maybe to determine how I would view each of those books. There are six such books and five became Yes and only one is a No.

Hi Joe, since you asked, here are some of the books on your list that I remember well enough to express an opinion:

One Hundred Years of Solitude was a wonderful read, but a good deal of work. I read it while I was still working, which meant that for the most part I read it in short, irregular bursts, which I'm sure made it more work than it might have been. I also enjoyed his Love in the Time of Cholera, which also has no real mystery component, but which I found to be a much easier read.

I also enjoyed Special Topics in Calamity Physics, although I don't think I grokked everything she was up to; you might say I read it somewhat shallowly. IIRC it's pretty long.

The Eyre Affair is one of my absolute favorite books. The sequels are not quite as wonderful, but are still a lot of fun. The tone is so light that I had no difficulty with the postmodern elements; I would describe them as fantasy/mysteries. You'll learn things you would never have imagined, such as that Miss Havisham is a frustrated auto racer.

I'll be very interested in your comments on those that you do read!

Hi Joe. Sorry to be so dilatory in answering your questions. Looking over the books you've marked no that I have read, here are my comments:

If on a Winter Night-definitely post-modern, but I don't know if there is a lot of mystery here, other than what happened to the missing manuscript for all the stories that are started. I loved this book, as a meditation on the relationship between the writer and reader, but I recognize that this is not a book for everyone, and a lot of people have not liked it.

The New York Trilogy-definitely post-modern, and a mystery, or 3 mysteries. This is actually 3 novels/novellas, each a detective story, although not like any detective story you've ever read. The stories are unconventional and the author is playing games with the reader. This is another one I really liked, but recognize it is not for everyone.

Cloud Atlas--post modern, some mystery elements maybe, but not at the forefront. This is one of my favorite books ever, I've read it several times, and I often recommend it. In structure it's a series of stories, and each story ends abruptly, and on the next page a new story begins, in a different time, with different characters. Frustrating at first, and you wonder what's going on. The stories are chronological, with the first one set in the past, moving up through time to the present day, and heading into the far future. With careful reading you will find connections and clues between the stories. After we reach the fare future, the stories begin again, this time in reverse order, going from far future to the past, and each of the stories is completed.

The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and Kafka On the Shore--post-modern and a mystery. You have a yes for one and a no for the other. I found them to be very similar in theme and character, and even, from a thousand foot level, in plot. The tone of each, Murakami's "voice" is very similar in each. If you read one and liked it you would probably like the other. If you didn't like it you probably wouldn't like the other. I somewhat liked these, but I'm not drawn to read more by Murakami.

100 Years of Solitude--Prime example of magical realism. Not sure if I'd put it in either the post-modern or mystery category. I read it years ago and loved it. It has perennially been on my list of possible rereads, and even as I'm running out of reading time, I still would like to reread this.

God of Small Things--I see you moved this from No to Yes. Iread it a long time ago, but remember it as a conventional narrative and don't recall any post-modern features. I liked it, but did not love it.

Remains of the Day--This is another book that I loved and recommend to everyone. I don't think it is either post-modern or a mystery. It is a straight-forward narrative, though it was not told chronologically. In it an elderly man looks back on his life as the butler to an aristocrat. He was a repressed, stiff upper lip sort who did everything perfectly and subtley, but he has many regrets about the way he lived his life.

Among your yesses I've read Alias Grace--moderately recommend; Perfume-loved; Name of the Rose--liked but found difficult; The Magus--liked; Special Topics in Calamity Physics--liked, but be aware that the main character is a teenager, and to me the book is more like popular fiction than literary, as most of your other hoices seem to be.

And coincidentally, I'm currently reading The Blind Assassin, and liking it so far. It's on the 1001 List, where I find many of my choices to read, although of course I've heard of Atwood for years and have read many of her books.

Hope all this is helpful to you, and sorry if it's too long.

>76 Jim53: Thanks for your comments. I 'read' One Hundred Years of Solitude a couple of years ago when I began to recognize magical realism and that Gabriel Garcia Marquez was the father of the genre. I tried to enjoy it but, like you found the going difficult. I stopped and decided I liked magical realism, but in smaller doses.

I will be taking a serious look at Special Topics in Calamity Physics

Will be reporting on all the books I read, or start to read.

>77 arubabookwoman: One of the first books I intend to read is The New York Trilogy as those mysteries are quite tempting.

The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and Kafka On the Shore have the same profile, with strong magical realism component. I have read Kafka and wasn't, in the end able to enjoy it even though I loved the original premise. I will give Bird Chronicle a try and see how I react to it.

I too loved Remains of the Day and it is also one of my most memorable books. How in the world I have it as an N in my table I can only blame on my 89+ brain having a hiccup.

Thanks for your input.

This exercise in trying to understand postmodern books that I might like has had an unfortunate effect on my Wishlist which was about 50 books I hoped to read in 2024. I placed all of my yes books in the Wishlist, which now numbers 98 books.

This means I need to do a job of ranking 98 books by some criteria in order to get to about the top 50, or so. Also, as I read other members postings, I have added several books with a lot of appeal.

One approach I might start with is just to choose the first book I want to read and not rank them all. The task of ranking, however, forces me to integrate a lot of emotional and non-analytical parameters. This can be helpful to me.

>79 JoeB1934: I think you’d like Paul Auster’s The New York Trilogy Joe. I voted those books and I understand you like a good story with mystery.

As you are aware by now, my main reading objective involves the use of Tagmash with the parameters 'literary fiction, mystery' to determine which books I can concentrate on for choices I should like. Meanwhile, I went off on this Postmodern sidetrack to find which such books I should like.

Naturally I just did an Excel analysis to see how the postmodern books lined up with my L-F,M analysis. This display is the result of that analysis.

After combining the postmodern results and other high priority books which aren't part of the L-F,M world I came up with a preliminary set of books for my near-term reading. They are produced in the next display. Naturally I will be doing more analysis, and this list will probably be changing almost daily.

An example of this reanalysis this morning I added Cloud Atlas to my list. It turns out I read it in 2005 and can't remember it at all. It has such high recommendations I need to look at it again. Thanks Arubabookwoman.

Revised Wishlist as of 01-21. Will continue to review for updates daily, both adds and removals. The order of the books in this display doesn't imply anything about what order I read them. That depends upon when holds become available.

I am currently reading Await Your Reply by Dan Chaon, which is not a postmodern book. Meanwhile I just started Motherless Brooklyn, which is postmodern. Ironically, 75% of the books I have targeted have measurable postmodern dimensions. Even though they also have legitimate attributes of literary fiction and mystery dimensions, which is my main objective.

My most recent read, which I found very interesting up to, and including the last page. The publisher's blurb is as follow:

"The lives of three strangers interconnect in unforeseen ways and with unexpected consequences in acclaimed author Dan Chaon's gripping, brilliantly written new novel.

Longing to get on with his life, Miles Cheshire nevertheless can't stop searching for his troubled twin brother, Hayden, who has been missing for ten years. Hayden has covered his tracks skillfully, moving stealthily from place to place, managing along the way to hold down various jobs and seem, to the people he meets, entirely normal. But some version of the truth is always concealed.

A few days after graduating from high school, Lucy Lattimore sneaks away from the small town of Pompey, Ohio, with her charismatic former history teacher. They arrive in Nebraska, in the middle of nowhere, at a long-deserted motel next to a dried-up reservoir, to figure out the next move on their path to a new life. But soon Lucy begins to feel quietly uneasy.

My whole life is a lie, thinks Ryan Schuyler, who has recently learned some shocking news. In response, he walks off the Northwestern University campus, hops on a bus, and breaks loose from his existence, which suddenly seems abstract and tenuous. Presumed dead, Ryan decides to remake himself through unconventional and precarious means.

Await Your Reply is a literary masterwork with the momentum of a thriller, an unforgettable novel in which pasts are invented and reinvented and the future is both seductively uncharted and perilously unmoored."

This is commonly identified as a book about identity theft, which I consider when a person specifically becomes identified as another person. That is not what I found this book to be about. It is about three individuals who redefine themselves because of internal and external forces. These redefinitions cause them to "forget" who they were to such a degree that they can't even 'remember' who they were previously.

These three individuals become connected by a fourth individual, the twin brother Hayden, who actually does lead a life of deliberate identity theft. As one reviewer noted you can think of Hayden as "Tom Ripley alive and unburdened in the modern world"

To summarize better than I can do is the following statement from Scott Rhee on Goodreads:

"Of course, even the end leaves more questions than it answers, but Chaon isn't setting out to answer all the questions. Human behavior and motivations are too messy and complicated to figure out. Sometimes, we all do and say things for reasons that are unclear even to ourselves. In the end, a police report or a detective's findings may figure out the who, what, and how, but the why is oftentimes forever a mystery."

This statement is exactly why I prefer to have a book contain a bit of a mystery.

>85 JoeB1934: I think that was the first book by Dan Chaon that I read and I liked it very much I have read 3 or 4 other books by him since that I also liked, but I don't think as much as this one.

>86 arubabookwoman: It is so good to hear that you loved the book, as I was beginning to wonder if anyone else I follow had ever read something from this author. I read your review after getting your note and found it to coincide exactly with how I felt. As you can tell I often resort to quoting other's reviews to say what I think about a book. I could have quoted you and done a better job of stealing other's comments.

I have decided that a better picture of my near-term reading would be to list the books I have on Hold in Libby, or checked out. As of 01-24 these books are displayed in the next figure.



In every case, my practice will be to read enough of the book to decide if it would be enjoyable, or not. I think for these books they are all very promising.

>88 JoeB1934: quite some variety there. I’ve read six - The Book Thief, The Master and Margarita, Invisible Man (last year), The Song of Achilles, Suite Francaise and The Return of Martin Guerre (finished Monday!). While I’m happy to recommend them all, I’m not sure i would recommend them all to the same person. 🙂

>89 dchaikin: I’d knock out The Book Thief. It’s a mediocre read at best.

>90 kjuliff: As a YA book, i think it’s very well done. I wouldn’t discourage anyone from reading it. Not sure if you were suggesting within that context.

>91 dchaikin: I was alluding to my opinion of the book in general. I found it shallow.

>89 dchaikin: I am curious, with what you know about me, would you not recommend any of these book?

There isn't any surprise in my looking at these books as they are ones that come from you and others I follow. However, they also rank high on my Wishlist which tracks their membership in my favorite literary mystery category. It turns out that 12 of the 18 books can be labeled as such

>92 kjuliff: I respect your appreciation of books in general, so I will approach the book with caution, and as per usual won't hesitate to drop the book.

>93 JoeB1934: my recommendation batting average isn’t very high. 🙂

Your analytical side with love The Return of Martin Guerre. And it’s only 3.5 hours

I think you like some feelings in your books. Arguably The Song of Achilles has the most feeling. But also that’s my least favorite of the bunch because the style is standard lit fic. Not a lot to distinguish the prose.

My favorite is The Master and Margarita. It helps to know the book was censored under the USSR. So he had to rewrite it from memory and still hide it.

>95 dchaikin: Thanks very much for those comments. I definitely will love The Return of Martin Guerre. The story is absolutely perfect for me. As to your batting average, I have always found them excellent for me.

>95 dchaikin: I agree on Song of Achilles - nothing special though word-craft above average. I just wasn’t interested I suppose.

>97 kjuliff: i was actually interested and she did some nice things with the Iliad (which was fresh in my mind when i read this). I can see going either way with it, love or hate. Ditto Circe, which I didn’t take to.

>98 dchaikin: I didn’t study the classics so what you picked up on regarding the Iliad was lost on me. I suppose my lack of knowledge had affected my appreciation of this novel.

I've read Eyre Affair 3.5*, Never Let Me Go 4*, Cloud Atlas 4*, Book Thief 4.5*, Master and Marguerita 4*, Oryx and Crake 3*, Song of Achilles 5*, Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox 4*, Suite Francaise 3.5*. I've also seen and enjoyed the film adaptation of Return of Martin Guerre with Gerard Depardieu.

I agree with Dan that the books cover a wide variety of styles. I'm looking forward to see which click with you. It's funny in that I don't think of myself as reading mysteries, yet there is so much overlap with what I've read and your list.

My favorite books from your list are Cloud Atlas (on my list of desert island books), Invisible Man, and The New York Trilogy.

>100 labfs39: Thank you very much for your input! What jumps out to me are the books that you rate at less than 4*. I realize that there are many books with less than 4* that are exceptional reads, but alarms go up in my brain when I see a 3*. Books at 3.5* are totally fine with me.

I still plan to start all of these books, but, as you know I feel no obligation to finish a book if I determine the time required isn't worthwhile to me.

>101 arubabookwoman: I also have high hopes for those 3 books.

Some of the prior posts caused me to talk a bit more about the fact that describing a book as a literary mystery doesn't say anything about the genre.
In essense, such books are genre neutral. The following display will show how I evaluate the books on my list.



I have a personal list of my favorite tags. Things like: Books about Books, Family, Relationships, Aging, etc. The Number of Tags column indicates how many of my favorite tags have been attributed to each book. I have learned over the past 3 years that I love books which possess a high tag count.

I use 3 different ways to label a book as a literary mystery.

(1) Does the book have the tag combination of Literary-Fiction and a Mystery like phrase.
(2) Is the book described as Literature and an appropriate Mystery phrase.
(3) Is the author labelled as a literary mystery author by the Goodreads list of such authors and the LibraryThing list of such. These lists name about 800 such authors.

In the Literary Mystery column, the count is simply how many of these 3 tests apply to the book. I gravitate towards books that have a high tag count, an average rating of 3.7+ and a level value of 2+. However, if a book has a genre high on my list of interests, like The Best Minds I go for that. The bottom 6 books on the list each possess some attribute that interests me.

A major problem in labelling any book as a mystery is that, to most people this is synonymous with crime. I would prefer that it can be understood that the true meaning is that there is a degree of suspense about the book.

>100 labfs39: Please look at the display I produced to see that you ARE reading Literary Mysteries. Do you subconsciously equate mystery with crime?

Now back to book reading!

The first book I want to discuss, Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close, was about 50% complete on Oct 14, 2023, when I fell and broke my hip. Now 3 months later I am quite mobile and restarting normal daytime activities, with only a small broken hip hitch to my walking. So back to finish the book.



The publisher's description is this:

"In a vase in a closet, a couple of years after his father died in 9/11, nine-year-old Oskar discovers a key...

The key belonged to his father, he's sure of that. But which of New York's 162 million locks does it open?

So begins a quest that takes Oskar - inventor, letter-writer and amateur detective - across New York's five boroughs and into the jumbled lives of friends, relatives, and complete strangers. he gets heavy boots, he gives himself little bruises and he inches ever nearer to the heart of a family mystery that stretches back fifty years. But will it take him any closer to, or further from, his lost father?"

A more informative description comes from Kirkus Reviews as follows:

"The search for the lock that fits a mysterious key dovetails with related and parallel quests in this (literally) beautifully designed second novel from the gifted young author (Everything Is Illuminated, 2002). The searcher is nine-year-old Oskar Schell, an inventive prodigy who (albeit modeled on the protagonist of Grass's The Tin Drum) employs his considerable intellect with refreshing originality in the aftermath of his father Thomas's death following the bombing of the World Trade Center. That key, unidentified except for the word "black" on the envelope containing it, impels Oskar to seek out every New Yorker bearing the surname Black, involving him with a reclusive centenarian former war correspondent, and eventually the nameless elderly recluse who rents a room in his paternal grandma's nearby apartment. Meanwhile, unmailed letters from a likewise unidentified "Thomas" reveal their author's loneliness and guilt, while stretching backward to wartime Germany and a horrific precursor of the 9/11 atrocity: the firebombing of Dresden. In a riveting narrative animated both by Oskar's ingenuous assumption of adult responsibility and understanding (interestingly, he's "playing Yorick" in a school production of Hamlet) and the letter-writer's meaningful silences, Foer sprinkles his tricky text with interpolated illustrations that render both the objects of Oskar's many interests and the memories of a survivor who has forsworn speech, determined to avoid the pain of loving too deeply. The story climaxes as Oskar discovers what the key fits, and also the meaning of his life (all our lives, actually), in a long-awaited letter from astrophysicist Stephen Hawking. Much more is revealed as this brilliant fiction works thrilling variations on, and consolations for, its plangent message: that "in the end, everyone loses everyone." Yes, but look what Foer has found. "

I found parts of the dialogue to be somewhat challenging, but the link to other historical experiences to be very meaningful. My long time gap in reading the book complicated my understanding, but it should be noted that on GR 71% of readers gave it a 4, or 5 star rating.

Another book on my list is Motherless Brooklyn which I have just 'finished'.



The publishers blurb is:

"Lionel Essrog is Brooklyn’s very own self-appointed Human Freakshow, an orphan whose Tourettic impulses drive him to bark, count, and rip apart our language in the most startling and original ways. Together with three veterans of the St. Vincent’s Home for Boys, he works for small-time mobster Frank Minna’s limo service cum detective agency. Life without Frank Minna, the charismatic King of Brooklyn, would be unimaginable, so who cares if the tasks he sets them are, well, not exactly legal. But when Frank is fatally stabbed, one of Lionel’s colleagues lands in jail, the other two vie for his position, and the victim’s widow skips town. Lionel’s world is suddenly topsy-turvy, and this outcast who has trouble even conversing attempts to untangle the threads of the case while trying to keep the words straight in his head. Motherless Brooklyn is a brilliantly original homage to the classic detective novel by one of the most acclaimed writers of his generation."

I found the book to be a bit of a challenge because of the numerous characters in the 'mob'. At the same time the writing was excellent and, at times, startling good. For me, it is a solid 4 star book and it does belong in the literary fiction designation.

As I often do, I have stolen a better description of the book from :

Carol in Goodreads.

"I went in expecting a mystery, and Lethem delivers, certainly. But wrapped up in the mystery is a solid, thoughtful portrayal of man who was given the closest thing to family and companionship he ever knew by a low-level mobster. The mobster, in turn, gets much of his own portrayal, at least from Lionel's viewpoint. It ends up being a bit of a bromance, or a non-jerk example of the 'dick-fic' genre (see The Mystic Arts of Erasing All Signs of Death). At one point, I realized with some surprised that I was reading a solid literary-fiction kind of book, with beautiful writing and human drama, wrapped up in a mystery.

Unlike mystery-thrillers, it isn't a particularly teeth-clenching, anxiety-producing kind of book (except, perhaps, on behalf of Lionel) that requires one to stay up late to read 'one more page.' Yet there's something quite solid about it, curious, moving, wry and intriguing that let me immerse myself whenever I picked it up. I feel like there's also solid re-read potential here. In fact, I think I will. Might even be worth adding to my own library. Reminds me of Sara Gran's Claire DeWitt and the City of the Dead, and that's high praise indeed. I'll have to check out The Fortress of Solitude, also by Letham, when I can handle some straight-up lit-fic." Carol gave it 4.5 stars rounded up to 5.

I was startled by her use of lit-fic, as I suppose is shorthand for literary fiction. I am not in favor of that!

>105 JoeB1934: I guess I do associate mystery with a crime, although I know you are speaking of something more nuanced with your "literary mystery". I'm curious as to how you would define the term. Here are some definitions I found:

"Mystery is a fiction genre where the nature of an event, usually a murder or other crime, remains mysterious until the end of the story. Often within a closed circle of suspects, each suspect is usually provided with a credible motive and a reasonable opportunity for committing the crime." - Wikipedia

"Mystery (pronounced mis-tuh-ree, ) is a genre of literature whose stories focus on a puzzling crime, situation, or circumstance that needs to be solved. The term comes from the Latin mysterium, meaning “a secret thing.” stories can be either fictional or nonfictional, and can focus on both supernatural and non-supernatural topics. Many mystery stories involve what is called a “whodunit” scenario, meaning the mystery revolves around the uncovering a culprit or criminal." -LiteraryTerms.net

"Mystery Novels
A crime is committed—almost always a murder—and the action of the story is the solution of that crime: determining who did it and why, and obtaining some form of justice. The best mystery stories often explore man’s unique capacity for deceit—especially self-deceit—and demonstrate a humble respect for the limits of human understanding. This is usually considered the most cerebral (and least violent) of the suspense genres." -WritersDigest.com

>108 labfs39: Long ago I did this same search and thought that the second of those definitions was my preference. Note especially the phrase.

"Mystery (pronounced mis-tuh-ree, ) is a genre of literature whose stories focus on a puzzling crime, situation, or circumstance that needs to be solved.

I do agree that the vast majority of time crime is an ingredient. But notice the phrase puzzling crime, situation, or circumstance that needs to be solved.

One thing about my approach is that it uses tags that readers assign to a book. So, what are the rules they use for assigning 'mystery' to a book. I have been thinking of doing a tag analysis looking at the use of the 'crime' tag, and how often do the two tags show up on a book.

When I think of the type of book I am looking for I think of Possession by A. S. Byatt. This book had a lot to do with the trajectory of my reading. At that time I considered my reading to be police procedurals, mostly Scottish, and similar books.

I don't know how I chose to read Possession, but I was blown away with how I loved that book, which today might still be my #1 book choice. It had romance, religion, science, history and mystery. (By the way the book has the mystery tag 141 times in LT and 1 for crime.)

>109 JoeB1934: Thanks for explaining, Joe. Not having read Possession, that unfortunately doesn't help me. I own it, I really should get to it. Using the definition you use, I could see Never Let Me Go and Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox being mysteries, but I am stymied at the idea of Song of Achilles being a mystery. Perhaps when you read it you can tell me. To me it is a straightforward historical fiction, a retelling of the Iliad. Every single thing in it is common knowledge to anyone who is familiar with Homer. How can it be a mystery? It's a war story, a romance, but nothing mysterious to my mind. Or maybe that's the mystery: why so many readers labeled it a mystery!

>110 labfs39: Thank you for that observation, as it caused me to go back and review the Excel work I did to produce the literary mystery level display. I discovered that in doing my sorting I made an error. I will correct that display this evening.

You did what every data analysis study needs, an independent individual that can analyze the results of the study for logical and numeric errors.

Song of Achilles is NOT a literary mystery.

You really need to read Possession

>111 JoeB1934: I enjoyed Possession when I read it many years ago. From memory I think it was a literary mystery. Did it involve a couple of academics competing to discover something?

Re whether mystery needs a crime to be solved I don’t think so. But a mystery novel needs to be a “page-turner” where you are compelled to keep going to find out what happens.

I used to love mysteries such as those written by P D James but I haven’t been able to find any new writers of that pure mystery genre who do it well.

>108 labfs39: >111 JoeB1934:
Lisa, Joe, I decided to see what AI had to say on this - mystery and crime question so I asked ChatGPT. It answered -
While many mystery genre books involve a crime to be solved, it's not a strict requirement. Mysteries can revolve around solving puzzles, uncovering secrets, or exploring enigmatic situations, not necessarily tied to criminal activities.

>113 kjuliff: Thanks very much! That is precisely what I have been trying to say. And your point previously, being a "page turner" is also important. I loved P.D. James also but there are many authors in the genre that I do like. Try Tana French, for example.

>114 JoeB1934: I’ve read about three Tania French and enjoyed them. They aren’t readily available in my library in audio. I’ll persevere.

I have reviewed the book Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood and decided that the futuristic, science fiction story was not for me at this time, so I dropped it from my hold list.

I also dropped The Virgin Suicides by Jeffrey Eugenides. Reading the reviews convinced me that it is very well written, but again the story isn't one that I need at this time.

I have reviewed all the remaining books on my hold list and the ones that survived are below.

The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien

Apparently there are some postmodern books that I really like! About halfway through this book and captivated by the language and the story. Just a hint, the cover on this book is very significant to the story. Hope to finish the book this weekend.

If you are wondering how I chose to read this book, the details are:
(1) This book ranks 99/500 Tagmash top rated literary fiction, mystery books. I had already read about 250 of the top 500 such books and this one popped up.
(2) The book has been tagged by a significant number of my favorite genre-like tags, including
Literature, Mystery, Literary-Fiction, Postmodern, Thriller, Aging, Religion, Books-about-Books, Psychological-Mystery, Surreal

As I have mentioned before, literary-fiction, mystery books are not genre limited.

The publisher's description of the book is:

The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien

20,135 ratings2,299 reviews

The Third Policeman is Flann O'Brien's brilliantly dark comic novel about the nature of time, death, and existence. Told by a narrator who has committed a botched robbery and brutal murder, the novel follows him and his adventures in a two-dimensional police station where, through the theories of the scientist/philosopher de Selby, he is introduced to "Atomic Theory" and its relation to bicycles, the existence of eternity (which turns out to be just down the road), and de Selby's view that the earth is not round but "sausage-shaped." With the help of his newly found soul named "Joe," he grapples with the riddles and contradictions that three eccentric policeman present to him.
The last of O'Brien's novels to be published, The Third Policeman joins O'Brien's other fiction (At Swim-Two-Birds, The Poor Mouth, The Hard Life, The Best of Myles, The Dalkey Archive) to ensure his place, along with James Joyce and Samuel Beckett, as one of Ireland's great comic geniuses.

My go to for a descriptive more detailed is from my friend bnielsen review

"England, ca 1940
An excellent introduction to de Selby and his philosophy. Or something.
Our nameless protagonist, NN, along with his somewhat dubious comrade John Divney, kills an old man, Mathers, in order to get his moneybox. Before the killing, NN probably has a name, but subsequently he has no memory of it. NN buries the body and in the meantime Divney hides the money. He says. NN and Divney don't trust each other, so for a long time NN makes sure to be close to Divney so he can't run away with the money. Or use them on the girl Pegeen Meers. But one day, Divney thinks it's safe to retrieve the money, and he tells NN that the money is hidden in Mathers' home under a loose floorboard. They follow there and NN enters the house. He finds the floorboard, but gets a shock when he touches the money box. He discovers that Mathers is sitting in a chair looking at him, and he can no longer feel the box. He leads a long conversation with Mathers, helped by his soul Joe, whom he discovers at the beginning of the conversation. Mathers tells how at birth you get a small transparent dress in a color that matches the color of the wind on the day. Every year you get a new dress in a slightly darker color and when it is close to turning completely black, you die. The policemen are Chief Constable Pluck, MacCruiskeen and Fox. And they seem to have everything under control, so NN thinks of asking them where the box can be found. But it's getting late, so he goes upstairs to Mathers' house and sleeps first.
Next he heads to the police station and on the way meets another man, Martin Finnucane, who turns out to be a robber, armed with a large dagger and intent on killing NN. However, it turns out that they both have wooden legs, and the robber immediately befriends NN and promises to crack open the belly of anyone who threatens NN. At the police station, as expected, he meets Detective Pluck, Officer MacCruiskeen, and a man, Michael Gilhaney. The third policeman, Fox, is extremely rarely seen. The conversation is constantly turned by Pluck to bicycles, high saddles, wooden rims and pedal buckles. Pluck is unique at locating stolen bikes, which is because he steals them himself and hides them around. Pluck also says that the atomic theory is at work here in the parish.
When they get back to the police station, there is a deputy commissioner O'Corky and NN realizes that the officers have already found him guilty and are looking forward to "stretching" him, i.e. hanging him from a scaffold. However, he can't be fixed in the meantime, because Pluck uses the cell to store his bike. According to atomic theory, you will mix atoms between hammer and steel rod if you hit the rod hard and repeatedly with the hammer. Similarly, a bicycle and a cyclist will be mixed with time. Everything is made by Omnium and the chief constable has also found an elevator that goes to eternity. It's a bit of a pinch. NN sends a message to his one-legged friend and a small group of seven one-legged people come to free him. However, the officers have been notified of the herd of Fox, so NN is taken up to the scaffold to enjoy the view. He apparently flees and takes Pluck's bike with him. He meets Officer Fox, who turns out to have Mathers' face, yet is kind to him. Fox tells NN that the box contains over a hundred grams of omnium, and NN begins to imagine a life of hustle and bustle. He takes the bike and is soon at Courahan's house. Inside the tavern, he meets Pointéen Meers, as John DivnEy is dating, but she's gotten much older. So is Divney, and he panics to see NN and collapses.
His view is that Mathers' house blew up 16 years ago, killing NN. Incredulous but confused, NN walks away from the house. Long after, he reaches a house, a police station. Here he is decorated by John Divney and they are greeted by a police officer: Is it a bicycle?

His final statement says a lot

Insane story. Related to Groundhog Day, Ubik and Sjak No. 3, because reality is not to be trusted. Very entertaining Irish word game. Maybe hell is other people and that it all repeats itself?
Bnielsen • Nov 23, 2021

Personally, the surreal dimensions were fine by me. The thought that eternity is just around the corner is actually true from my perspective as when I die my molecules continue in the universe as before.

The value to me for the book was the language as it pertained to the Irish. Creation of new words and and the totally enthralling flow of descriptive words was so enjoyable and fun. Some reviewers didn't think there were many laughs in the book and that overall, the theme was dark. I certainly didn't see it that way.

I have oscillated over the last few months about my reporting on books that I finished reading. I am not capable of being a worthwhile reviewer of a book, so I have tended to display the publisher's blurb on the current book, supplemented by copying a portion of a valid review that comes close to how I think about the book.

After some reflection, I have decided to modify my report on a book that I just read. I will display the cover and the valid LT links to the book and author. Any reader interested in the book can access the book description and author details by selecting a link as necessary to determine what the book is all about.

Rather than using a review that seems to match my feelings I will provide a short statement about how I viewed the book. I will also produce a list of the important tags for the book as I view it within my favorite tag categories.

I hope that these changes will provide sufficient information for someone to decide if they have any interest in the book.

My next post will present my latest book read.

The Final Solution by Michael Chabon

This is the first Michael Chabon book I have read, and I feel bad about taking this long to discover his work.

Major Tags: Sherlock Holmes, Holocaust, WWII, Literature, Mystery, Literary-Fiction, Historical-Mystery, Suspense, Thriller, Historical-Fiction, Literary-Mystery, Crime-Fiction

I am so lacking in knowledge about Chabon that it wasn't until reading this book that I found out that he incorporates the Sherlockian basis for this book. The key character in the story is an "old, retired detective" who keeps bees. The detective uses Sherlock like thinking to arrive at the essence of the 'mystery'.
What is less obvious is the inferred references through symbolisms WWII and the Holocaust. The book title actually provides the first clue to a majoe direction for the book.

I was most struck by Chabon's use of language. This book is very short, but his use of language communicates so well to tell the story in a manner that leaves me in awe.

>120 JoeB1934: Ooh, I’ve been looking for a book with a parrot in it. Seems the one in Flaubert’s Parrot is stuffed.

>120 JoeB1934: I love your new format for talking about the books you've read. I am much more interested in what you thought of the book than what the publisher says. Thank you for sharing!

>120 JoeB1934: >122 labfs39: I agree with Lisa here: I'm interested in what you have to say yourself. We're not going to grade it ;-)

Do you like mystery novels in series? Those I have in mind are in the more specific "crime" sort of mysteries. My favorites are by Julia Spencer Fleming, Deborah Crombie, SJ Rozan, Louise Penny, Ellen Crosby. The advantage of a series is that you can get to know the characters pretty well over the course of several books. For me, the characters are everything; the mystery is a fun formula for seeing them doing things. I do like to try to solve the mystery myself, and I have a pretty decent rate of success; but that can't be all there is to it.

There is another series I have not read, by Laurie King, which features Sherlock Holmes as a retiree who keeps bees, with a young female apprentice. It would be interesting to see how those are related to Chabon's story.

It's always interesting to see how views differ on books: unlike Dan, I hated The Master and Margarita and gave up halfway through.

Hi Jim. I am new to Club Read and a fellow mystery reader, as well as a fan of books about books. I have been enjoying your comments. I was very interested to see The Book Hunters of Katpadi on your list of literary mysteries. Have you read Pradeep Sebastian's other books? This memoir about book collecting is very interesting too.

>123 Jim53: >124 rv1988: You both inquired about my reading of classical crime, or detective procedurals. The answer is, yes of course as many decades ago I was reading mostly British mystery authors, like Ian Rankin and Val Mcdermid, especially all things Scottish, for half of my ancestry. Over the years my favorite authors grew as they came on the scene. Louise Penny and Tana French included on the favorite author list. This includes outstanding Scandinavian authors.

Over recent years I came to the realization that it wasn't the crime that I was drawn to as much as what kjuliff recently described in her posting:

"I decided to see what AI had to say on this - mystery and crime question so I asked ChatGPT. It answered -
While many mystery genre books involve a crime to be solved, it's not a strict requirement. Mysteries can revolve around solving puzzles, uncovering secrets, or exploring enigmatic situations, not necessarily tied to criminal activities."

In more recent years I haven't kept up with some of the new crime writers as I have concentrated on the literary mysteries as defined in this way. Of course, I always jump on any of my favorite authors. I wish Tana French, for example would write more.

Today I get my police procedural mystery fix by watching TV shows on Britbox, Acorn and MHZ.

It is interesting, to say the least, that of 2067 books in my library 1675 are identified with the 'crime fiction' tag.

>124 rv1988: No, I haven't read The Book Hunters of Katpadi, or any of the books by that author. I have added the book to my Wishlist for future analysis as it does sound like an excellent story that I would like.

However, I will approach the book with some caution and read some reviews to help me understand why it has an average reader rating around 3.3. This is a bit of a red flag for me as most of my reads are 3.7+, and preferably 4+

>120 JoeB1934: just wanted to add that i like this too. I like your thoughts and I’m now interested in this book.

The Return of Martin Guerre by Natalie Zemon Davis

I have been wanting to 'read' this book for a while now and yesterday/evening I listened to it completely. I wasn't surprised at my interest in the story of a clever peasant Arnaud du Tilh, who had almost persuaded the judges that he was in truth, Martin Guerre when, on a summer’s day in 1560, a man swaggered into the court on a wooden leg, denounced Arnaud, and reestablished his claim to the identity, property, and wife of Martin Guerre.

What was astounding to me was the historical scholarship of Natalie Zemon Davis and the quality of narration by Sarah Mould-Christensen, who spoke so authentically in details of 16th century happenings. These details about peasant life, local property practices and evolving legal approaches all came from scholarship research and not speculation.

Insight into the legal practices and analysis that led judges in their seemingly honest effort to determine the truth of Arnaud du Tilh's claims was especially revealing. A major factor in the process was that du Tilh possessed a prodigious memory and native intuition that could astound the judges and fool locals. The wife of Martin Guerre accepted his fraud and lived with him for 3 years.

Even though du Tilh was executed in some ways he was a 'hero' in the eyes of some some 16th century scholarship because of his talents.

Nice review of The Return of Martin Guerre, Joe.

>128 JoeB1934: Another great review, Joe. I knew the plot since I’ve seen the film. Your mention of the research makes me think there would be value add in my reading the book.

>130 labfs39: I absolutely think you would benefit from the Audible version. I can't imagine that reading a Kindle, or hard back would have the same effect. The narration was truly a large factor in my response. I looked up the narrator and found that she has done a large number (400) of them, she is in so many different genres. Her speaking the language of this book, to me who can't speak any foreign languages, was startling authentic.

>131 JoeB1934: >130 labfs39: I second Joe on this. I too listened to The Return of Martin Guerre and the research content is fascinating. I reviewed it here but Joe’s review is so much better in conveying the scholarship of the author, Natalie Zemon Davis.

>128 JoeB1934: So glad you enjoyed this book Joe. I did think it was your kind of book. Your review is great. The way you cover the research brings back the fascination I too found in reading it.

I look forward to your next review.

>132 kjuliff: You are so generous, but your review is so much more than I can write. It is just that I was so surprised by the scholarship by Natalie Zemon Davis.
I think I will look more intro anything else she has written..

The Book Thief by Markus Zusak

This book has extremely high ratings on Goodreads, 58% 5-Stars, so I had high expectations when I started the book recently. I found the dialog to be so formulaic that I put it aside for a while. Yesterday, at about 35% complete I went back to it and soon found dialog that still felt somewhat contrived so I abandoned it.

I admit that I had comments from kjuliff who found the book to be 'mediocare' and dchaikin who mentioned that it was considered a YA book, and in that context it was worth reading.

There are a few reviews on GR that are blistering that, in general complained about the dialog as I did.

So, it is DNF

>134 JoeB1934: I wasn’t being generous . Your reviews are good. It’s normal to be critical of one’s own work.

I don’t think Natalie Zemon Davis wrote any books outside of academia. She was essentially a scholar. But do let me know if you find anything..

I am juggling the current list of holds in Libby. Will add some near term to replace recent reads



Some near term candidates to consider adding. These are at the top of my personal list of literary fiction books, with and without mysteries. Some of them are already on my hold list and others I need to evaluate.

On labfs39 there is an interesting discussion about female authors that are not being recognized. This caused me to retrieve from my earlier library two such authors that have written books that I still remember to this day. They are non-fiction books involving study of early humans.



I have taken from Goodreads the essence of these two books. My main takeaway from both is that the authors focused on the people and tried to tell us how these early humans were so much like us.

---

Time Song: Searching for Doggerland

Julia Blackburn
3.84
427 ratings94 reviews
SHORTLISTED FOR THE WAINWRIGHT PRIZE AND THE HESSELL-TILTMAN PRIZE

A journey told through stories and songs into Doggerland, the ancient region that once joined the east coast of England to Holland

Time Song tells of the creation, the existence and the loss of a country now called Doggerland , a huge and fertile area that once connected the entire east coast of England with mainland Europe, until it was finally submerged by rising sea levels around 5000 BC.

Julia Blackburn mixes fragments from her own life with a series of eighteen 'songs' and all sorts of stories about the places and the people she meets in her quest to get closer to an understanding of this vanished land. She sees the footprints of early humans fossilised in the soft mud of an estuary alongside the scattered pockmarks made by rain falling eight thousand years ago. She visits a cave where the remnants of a Neanderthal meal have turned to stone. In Denmark she sits beside Tollund Man who, despite having lain in a peat bog since the start of the Bronze Age, seems to be about to wake from a dream...

'This book is a wonder' Adam Nicolson, Spectator

'A clairvoyant and poetic conversation with the past' Antony Gormley

---

Kindred: Neanderthal Life, Love, Death and Art

Rebecca Wragg Sykes
4.02
2,859 ratings513 reviews
Since their discovery more than 160 years ago, Neanderthals have metamorphosed from the losers of the human family tree to A-list hominins.

In Kindred, Rebecca Wragg Sykes uses her experience at the cutting-edge of Palaeolithic research to share our new understanding of Neanderthals, shoving aside clichés of rag-clad brutes in an icy wasteland. She reveals them to be curious, clever connoisseurs of their world, technologically inventive and ecologically adaptable. Above all, they were successful survivors for more than 300,000 years, during times of massive climatic upheaval.

At a time when our species has never faced greater threats, we’re obsessed with what makes us special. But, much of what defines us was also in Neanderthals, and their DNA is still inside us. Planning, co-operation, altruism, craftsmanship, aesthetic sense, imagination... perhaps even a desire for transcendence beyond mortality.

It is only by understanding them, that we can truly understand ourselves.

After reviewing my Wishlist I have reduced my books on hold, as of 02-02

Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

First published in 1952 and immediately hailed as a masterpiece, Invisible Man is one of those rare novels that have changed the shape of American literature. For not only does Ralph Ellison's nightmare journey across the racial divide tell unparalleled truths about the nature of bigotry and its effects on the minds of both victims and perpetrators, it gives us an entirely new model of what a novel can be.

With an introduction like this I was all set for a major read for myself. After struggling along for about 20% of the audio I reluctantly dropped the book.

I am wholeheartedly aligned with the racial divide subject of the book, but I had to work incredibly hard to continue. For the most mundane of reasons: I have always had difficulty with personal interactions with people that talk at a high velocity. It seems at my age the issue is even greater.

Why not move from audio to Kindle, you ask. My desire to listen is always tied to the emotional content and vernacular of the story, which I find to be difficult for me to acquire in a hard copy.

I can say that if you haven't read this book it is a masterpiece as described and should be high on the list for anyone interested in the subject.

>140 JoeB1934: Is it possible to slow the playback speed? I've heard of people speeding it up, but I don't use audio enough to know if playback can also be slowed. Or perhaps it depends on platform and/or device.

>141 labfs39: In Libby, which most people use, only allows faster than 1.00
I plan to obtain a Kindle version and give it a try.

Enjoyed catching up

>128 JoeB1934: I’m really glad you enjoyed Martin Guerre. Enjoyed your review.

>135 JoeB1934: Interesting in your struggles with The Book Thief. It’s largely about narrative voice, which might give it a very artificial feel. I took to it, but not everyone will

>137 JoeB1934: I adored Nervous Conditions, probably the first major work from a black African woman from Zimbabwe. (But not the only major one). I can’t tell how you might take to it. It depends on your curiosity of Zimbabwe’s ugly transition to the contemporary world.

>140 JoeB1934: Invisible Man is special. But not easy. I don’t know if audio would have worked for me. He’s playing a lot of games on a lot of levels. And some take many pages before the reader has any clue what he’s doing.

>135 JoeB1934: I won't lie that it makes me a little sad since i have good memories about this book. But, given the common complaints around the dialog or how it didn't work for the reader, i decide it's better to just respect other people's opinion about it. But everytime i see someone mention about the dialog, i have to pull my copy and stare at it.

I read it in my 20s (according to google, YA books range from 12 to 18 years old). I'm still fond of the book for the story and the characters idiosyncrasies. I watched the movie and the only complain i have is around the Jew character that went from being a fist fighter to a nice/optimistic person.

Also (very random), this book made me do the mistake of "forcing other people to read it because i really liked it". Nowadays i'm more contained and aware that just because i really liked it, other people don't have to like it as well.

>144 dicentra8: I Understand completely how you, and many other readers loved that book. You have also hit on the very significant fact that every reader arrives at a book with unique to them experiences and personal situations when they pick up a book. In some cases books I loved back in 1970 aren't that interesting to me.

The comment by dicentra8 made me go retrieve the most pertinent statement I ever read about the experience of reading a book. Here it is:

While reading ‘Lanark’ by Alasdair Grey I read the introduction to the book which was written by William Boyd. These authors are outstanding Scottish literary luminaries.
William Boyd led the Introduction by the following statement:

“Readers develop unique histories with the books they read. It may not be immediately apparent at the time of reading, but the person you were when you read the book, the place you were where you read the book, your state of mind while you read it, your personal situation (happy, frustrated, depressed, bored) and so on- all these factors, and others, make the simple experience of reading a book a far more complex and multi-layered affair than might be thought. Moreover, the reading of a memorable book somehow insinuates itself into the tangled skein of personal history that is the reader's biography: the book leaves a mark on that page of your life - leaves a trace
- one way or another.”

Or this:

You and I know too many different things, entertain too many different thoughts, hold too many different beliefs to see Pip—or any other character—in quite the same way. Same words, same pages. Different us. Sometimes different me. I find that my Pip today is not my Pip of yesterday. As I've changed over the years, I find that my thinking about characters has changed as well... —Thomas C. Foster

                So Many Books, So Little Time

---

In one of my earlier posts I spoke about 'mission creep' which happens every day in book reading. I started the year with around 500 books that seemed appropriate ingredients for my Literary Fiction, Mystery objective for the year. On my list were a number of books that were non-fiction, pure literary fiction and pure mystery because I also have such interests.

Sure enough, I have accumulated a goodly number of these outside-the-goal books from various other threads that I follow. I don't just add books without some regard to their desirable attributes. The effect is to increase my list of candidates to the point where it is unreasonable for me not to make adjustments in my process.

I have tried to make it plain that, as an almost 90-year-old person I don't want to waste limited time on a 'good' but not 'exceptional' book. I can see reading 50-75 books this year and one way of measuring my situation is that I want to find those books which have the highest likelihood of being exceptional reads out of 500+ books.

I went back to my complete library to review my favorite books over the years in order to determine how books I most loved were actually literary-fiction, mystery tagged books. I found that, out of 1638 books there were 544 books labelled as literary fiction books. Of those 414 were literary fiction, mystery tagged books.

Additional facts were that 1377 books were mystery tagged, and that 330 books were actually tagged as literary mysteries. Included in my observations was the presence of all of my most favorite authors were included in the literary fiction mystery set of books.

If I look at the 500+ books on my TBR list less than 100 are actually in compliance with my stated goal for 2024 reading. So, I am going to concentrate my Wishlist on that set of books. This means that pure mysteries, and pure literary fiction books will not be on my current set of reading targets.

I don't have many nonfiction books in my listing but they will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

My next posting will provide a spotlight on my highest rated of those 92 books on the reduced Wishlist.

Now that I am up from my afternoon nap I think I should explain a bit more about this choice using two books that caused me to do this analysis.

First is my recent experience with a pure mystery book. To Track a Traitor by Iona Whishaw. A new to me author with an excellent sounding story involving Scotland and Canada. It compares well to about 12 other mystery books I have read. Almost from the beginning there was a disappointment on my part for the quality of the dialog and the writing in general.

Second, is a book I am currently reading Suite Francaise by Irène Némirovsky. This book is an incredible literary book about Nazi occupation of France. It is an outstanding history-fiction book, but only 2 readers attached the tag 'mystery' to the book while 289 attached the tag history fiction, and 29 attached literary fiction to the book.

To be fair, I have never been much of a history reader. Historical mysteries are a major favorite but here is that 'mystery' word again. I can't even describe that word any better than 'literary'.

To be fair, if I were to apply a strict literary fiction and mystery criteria to this book, I probably wouldn't choose to read it. But the historical story is so well written that I need to complete the book.

These two books lie at the outer edges of my search for the most rewarding books I can read. In brief, I need not only to apply my designated test of any book but to see that the use of 'mystery' and 'literary' are very subjective and I need caution before I exclude any book.

I hope to concentrate on books which are no-doubt books for my criteria. This will undoubtedly leave out books which I would find to be exceptional, but I already know there are limitless books that I am already missing.

>150 JoeB1934: Glad you are enjoying Suite Francaise Joe. It’s been one of my highlights in reading in the past few months.

>150 JoeB1934: I read the first book in the Lane Winslow series and was disappointed in the writing as well, Joe. Some of the grammar errors were laughable. I don't understand how the book was published without copy editing.

I have been processing my thinking about books to read and I have concluded that my current holding in Libby are still good ones.

>153 JoeB1934: >154 JoeB1934: I think I've already mentioned that The Eyre Affair is one of my all-time favorites. It's a real genre-blender in that it has elements of mystery, fantasy/science fiction, and satire.

I'm also a huge fan of The Given Day. Just mentioning in case you want a nudge toward any of your listed books. They all look interesting, and I'll be interested to hear what you think of whatever you pick.

Upon further analysis I decided to broaden my Libby/Audible holds to be more reflective of my current thoughts.

>155 Jim53: I remember that, and I am about to finish The Eyre Affair. You certainly identified the genre mix perfectly.

I'm really enjoying watching your process in choosing your next book. I can't help but picture you in a well-stocked library, busily rearranging stacks of books to your liking.

>159 RidgewayGirl: That is really funny, as I don't actually have a physical library. All the books I read are from the DPL, or Audible as I read audio as often as I can.

The process I use is strictly analytical analysis based on a book's detailed genre-like tags and LT techniques that can be used to find books to consider. Then, I look at reviews on LT and GR.

I am pleased that you are enjoying watching this process as I often wonder if LT members mostly use their own personal methods for finding books.

>160 JoeB1934: If we took any random dozen members of Club Read, we'd be looking at at least 18 different methods of choosing what to read next. Mine changes -- I'm aiming to be controlled by whim, but I'm currently mostly reading the shortlist for a book award.

>160 JoeB1934: I used to have a huge physical library, but I gave all my NYC books away when I could no longer read them - well I did keep my fine art books, but all with only the printed word have gone. I’d already left most of my library in Australia, but had built up a sizable library here.

As well as the fine art books I still have many on my Kindle but can no longer access them.

So now all books are from Audible or the NYPL.so I’m in much the same position as you.

The Eyre Affair by Jasper Fforde

Before I discuss this outstanding book, I need to talk about how I arrived at this book this year. About 3 years ago as I was converging on my love of literary mysteries, I began to find this book on several rankings of the best literary mysteries.

So, naturally I obtained a copy and began to read it, only to be disappointed with my experience. I ignored the idea of reading it until this time. Why is it now a most memorable book for me?

The answer is: I have changed as a reader. Back then I had progressed from reading British police procedurals to broader literary mysteries, but not much into science fiction, fantasy and horror books. Over the last few years I have ‘graduated’ to include almost every sub-genre possible, even to include magical realism. Even with these new interests I still have to temper how far I want to go into some of these newer books.

When I created my approach for 2024 this book continued to top my lists so I have now finished it and am in awe of the works by Jasper Fforde.

I have always been author-centric because, while I can see how most plots can be developed, I have zero comprehension about how any author can create the dialog for several hundred pages of discourse on events, people and the physical environment.

Fforde with this book has blown up my misconception that a plot is all that easy to develop.

As jim53 stated “It's a real genre-blender in that it has elements of mystery, fantasy/science fiction, and satire”.

Even these terms do not show the real depth of the innovation by Fforde. For example, I found discussion of portals into physical manuscripts that involved people entering the world described in the manuscript/book and interacting with the characters in the book.

I don’t know how to expand these descriptions, but I found a somewhat hilarious description, but quite accurate of events in the following GR review:

✘✘ Sarah ✘✘ (former Nefarious Breeder of Murderous Crustaceans)
2,407 reviews7,645 followers
Follow
October 4, 2021
➽ And the moral of this rerereread is: one of the most creatively original worlds ever created + delicious literary references galore + being meringued (don't ask) + most heavenly Brit humor/wit/sarcasm combo + bookworms farting apostrophes and ampersands, and belching out capitalisations (I told you not to ask) + a super extra cool, clever as fish kick ass heroine who's a war veteran and dares to be over 35 (the nerve!) + Shakespearean shenanigans + pet dodos + unnotified SpaceTime Flexations + one of the mostest awesomest villainous villains ever (and accompanying odious yet art-loving fiendish compatriots) + Jane Eyre and Rochester and St John Rivers, oh my! + I could be here all day listing all the somewhat very scrumptiously scrumptious details that make this book so bloody shrimping scrumptious but I'll settle for a celebratory dance instead.

What in the world is she talking about? Here is the blurb:

The Eyre Affair by Jasper Fforde

3.89
132,153 ratings11,412 reviews

Great Britain circa 1985: time travel is routine, cloning is a reality (dodos are the resurrected pet of choice), and literature is taken very, very seriously. Baconians are trying to convince the world that Francis Bacon really wrote Shakespeare, there are riots between the Surrealists and Impressionists, and thousands of men are named John Milton, an homage to the real Milton and a very confusing situation for the police. Amidst all this, Acheron Hades, Third Most Wanted Man In the World, steals the original manuscript of Martin Chuzzlewit and kills a minor character, who then disappears from every volume of the novel ever printed! But that's just a prelude . . .

Hades' real target is the beloved Jane Eyre, and it's not long before he plucks her from the pages of Bronte's novel. Enter Thursday Next. She's the Special Operative's renowned literary detective, and she drives a Porsche. With the help of her uncle Mycroft's Prose Portal, Thursday enters the novel to rescue Jane Eyre from this heinous act of literary homicide. It's tricky business, all these interlopers running about Thornfield, and deceptions run rampant as their paths cross with Jane, Rochester, and Miss Fairfax. Can Thursday save Jane Eyre and Bronte's masterpiece? And what of the Crimean War? Will it ever end? And what about those annoying black holes that pop up now and again, sucking things into time-space voids . . .

Suspenseful and outlandish, absorbing and fun, The Eyre Affair is a caper unlike any other and an introduction to the imagination of a most distinctive writer and his singular fictional universe.

This is truly a plot that I can’t ever imagine anyone creating, but it is truly genre-bending.

I got to see/hear Fforde read at the late lamented Clean Well Lighted Place for Books in San Francisco years ago. He was very funny and very friendly. I've read just about all of his books, and certainly all the Thursday Next books.

>164Interesting about your changes in reading preferences, Joe. I know mine must have changed but haven’t analysed them. Author-centric - like the term. In all another enjoyable postt.

>163 JoeB1934: I love the Thursday Next books and feel like reading them again every time I see someone writing about them! I think they just keep getting better for the first four books too, though the ones after that weren't quite as good for me.

I'll be interested to see how you find New York Trilogy if you read it. It was intriguing but didn't quite click with me.

>163 JoeB1934: i’ve never read Fforde. I enjoyed your comments on your reading and its evolution.

>166 valkyrdeath: I definitely will be reading it as I used a credit on Audible to get an audio version. Meanwhile, I am finding not many audios of more Thursday Next books so I will probably do Kindle on them.

I just finished reading the most recent threads from a variety of members that discuss books and reviews of interest to themselves, and potentially, to me.

As per usual, I have come away with a strong impression of readers who are working hard to read books that have a special appeal to themselves. Frequently their needs intersect with other threads in my grouping, and it is so rewarding to me to see that happen.

I have always been of the opinion that each reader has a unique set of reading objectives. Sort of like our reading fingerprints, no two are exactly alike.

Occasionally there are members who comment on a book I have read, that they also have read. If I go to their profile to see how many books we share it is most common that their fingerprint simply overlaps with mine for a limited number of books. But their comments about those books gives me insight into the book that I might have missed.

Thanks to them

It is interesting to me that I have replaced Crime Reads Hub for book ideas with Literary Hub and that is reflected in the threads I follow.

Suite Francaise by Irène Némirovsky

There are many reviews of this book so I will talk about my personal reaction to the book. I want to start with an essential statement made in the blurb for the book:

”Suite Française is a singularly piercing evocation—at once subtle and severe, deeply compassionate, and fiercely ironic—of life and death in occupied France, and a brilliant, profoundly moving work of art.”

I would expand on that statement by adding that it is truly a literary masterpiece. I have spoken recently about how the ability of an author to detail events and actions in the most incredibly minute specificity continues to place me in awe. This book provides that to a maximum.

I couldn’t see that there was a single sentence that failed to bring emotion and value to the portrayal.

It is useful for you to know that I am not, and never have been a history buff. This book provides historical details that I imagine are very important to historians. I can't address those historical facts.

I can address that the most important ingredient for me in any book is the depth of portrayal of individuals within the context of the story. This book takes a singular event, the invasion of France by the German army and focuses on the detailed impact on French individuals from all segments of society.

I found the variety of individuals so precisely detailed that I could almost visualize their personalities. Class structures certainly became very defined for me.

Despite these specific individual details, they remained anonymous to me. As a historical revelation it was educational to me in the first story ‘Storm’ but I attached more specifically to the people in part two ‘Dolce’.

Some reviewers attach a higher rating to ‘Storm’, but to me I could identify more emotionally to those in ‘Dolce’. This was especially true for the star-crossed non-lovers involving Lucille and Bruno, the German soldier.

I’m not sure exactly why, but the scenario where Bruno plays a piano composition for Lucille really stuck with me. Music plays with emotions in a powerful way and it did so in this scenario. The resultant conversation between the two brought up important thinking about war, peace and the consequences for everyone during non-war intervals.

Their relationship is never resolved during the book so you will be left with a lot of uncertainly at the conclusion. Isn't that the way life is?

We will never know if the author Irène Némirovsky planned to resolve some issues in later volumes. The tragedy is her death along with millions of others terminated the five book plan for this sequence.

Maybe reading some of her other books would provide more insight into what she planned, but this one as it stands is a masterpiece.

>169 JoeB1934: lovely post on LT in general, and on Club Read. I think we’re largely here in CR, instead of elsewhere, for nature of the dialogue here, for the varieties of interests and responses. Also, I appreciate your literary tilt.

>170 JoeB1934: i’m so happy you enjoyed this. It’s a lovely half of a novel. I enjoyed your comments.

>170 JoeB1934: So glad you liked this book Joe. I did too and I also enjoyed reading your review. It took me right back into the book - one reason I like reading reviews of books I have read.

The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster

My recent reading has tended more toward Literary, rather than Mystery, so I decide to read this book, which ranks very high on the ranking of Literary Mysteries.

For those unfamiliar with this book here is a minimal setup:

"The remarkable, acclaimed series of interconnected detective novels – from the author of 4 3 2 1: A Novel

The New York Review of Books has called Paul Auster’s work “one of the most distinctive niches in contemporary literature.” Moving at the breathless pace of a thriller, this uniquely stylized triology of detective novels begins with City of Glass, in which Quinn, a mystery writer, receives an ominous phone call in the middle of the night. He’s drawn into the streets of New York, onto an elusive case that’s more puzzling and more deeply-layered than anything he might have written himself. In Ghosts, Blue, a mentee of Brown, is hired by White to spy on Black from a window on Orange Street. Once Blue starts stalking Black, he finds his subject on a similar mission, as well. In The Locked Room, Fanshawe has disappeared, leaving behind his wife and baby and nothing but a cache of novels, plays, and poems."

I have mentioned before that Literary Mysteries are, to a great degree not genre specific. This means that when I start a new book I have to decide if I appreciate what the author is trying to achieve. This is how I approached part one of the trilogy, City of Glass.

As I read into the City of Glass, I became disappointed with the whole setup. The best thing I can say is that it was very 'challenging'.

I decided to go to a number of extensive reviews on GR. You know the kind that produces an abstract of the whole book, with commentary. I found the usual range of highly enthusiastic readers. There are 4352 reviews there and I found enough insight for myself to realize that this book would continue to be challenging for me.

I have mentioned before that I am always looking for the likelihood of an emotional attachment for me with any of the characters in the book. This book promised none of that for me and no revelatory insight into the nature of humankind.

So, I DNF and went searching for a book more worthwhile with my time.

>173 JoeB1934: I loved these novels but that was a long time ago. I’ve actually thought of re-reading them since my attention has been drawn to them. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these books.

>166 valkyrdeath: My review/reaction to The New York Trilogy is now posted.

>173 JoeB1934: Sounds like you had a similar reaction to it as I did, but I had a hard time back then abandoning a book so I did finish it. If you weren't connecting with it early on then I don't think that is likely to change. Looking back at my notes, I didn't enjoy the first two books at all, but was intrigued by the third, until I got to the end and it didn't seem to lead anywhere and nothing got resolved. I also didn't see how the three books were connected. It felt like I must have been missing something.

I want to read more Auster so I’ve thought about this trilogy. The comments are interesting to me. For what it’s worth, The Book of Illusions is terrific and not challenging to read.

>177 dchaikin: Thanks for that input as I have the book on my prospect list. I can see from the description that it is a far different story and one that I would like.

>177 dchaikin: Another big thumbs up for The Book of Illusions from me. I do mean to get to the trilogy one of these days, too.

It is time for me to re-focus my reading plan. I do have a number of books on hold in Libby which will be coming up over the next few weeks, but are they still my best choices?

I have about 500 candidates to read and they range over a lot of excellent authors, including ones I found out about on various LT threads. Using the Tag Mirror I categorize every book on the strength of their literary mystery designations. This process creates 4 different literary mystery strength groups.

Of my books to read the groups are as follows:

LM3 79 books each with 3 Literary Mystery tag groups
LM2 80 books with 2 tag groups
LM1 107 books with 1 tag group
LM0 246 Books with zero LM groups.

All of these books have some sort of literary tag, so what distinguishes them are how/if mystery is part of the story. Please remember my point that mystery is NOT always equal to crime.

I have discovered over the last few years that an LM3 designation pretty much guarantees that I will like the book. So I have produced 49 books out of 79 LM3 books that, upon inspection appeal the most to me.

I am working on a cover display of those 49 books.

I can't read just these books as there ar LM2, LM1, and LM0 books that I might be interested in. I intend to do some sorting of those also. I would appreciate any comments anyone has on this list of books, some of which I have already read.

Those comments would help me for further sorting. I realize that everyone else has their own preferences, but we probably overlap to some degree.

>181 JoeB1934: The only one I've read is Leave the World Behind. It was a solid 4 stars for me - possibly a bit higher. I enjoyed it much more than I expected.

>181 JoeB1934: I liked Cloud Atlas when I read it, but the only thing I remember is it's matryoshka-like construction. It was complex in that way. Where'd You Go, Bernadette? was very funny in the beginning, but perhaps only for those who live in Seattle, as it felt very insider-ish. The second half, the mystery, didn't do much for me, but then I'm not a huge mystery fan. Never Let Me Go blew me away, but only because I went into it completely unspoiled. I would suggest avoiding reviews if you can on that one. I read Akin last year and was quite charmed by the relationship between the old man and his grandnephew.

>183 labfs39: >181 JoeB1934: Are these trilogy books the ones with Mr Brown, Mr Gray etc? I really liked them at the time but remember a later Auster doing nothing for me.

>184 kjuliff: This trilogy has characters named Blue, Brown, White and Black. dchaikin has recommended The Book of Illusions by the same author, but not as challenging. Back in the day you read a trilogy of his you might have been able to cope with it where I couldn't.

Big fan of Murakami and Fforde. Ishiguro is good; and can vouch for Patchett and Semple. Reading The Librarianist for my bookclub in October this year. Looks like you have some fun reads ahead!!

3 and 1/2 i can recommend
The book of Illusions - already recommended this one
Commonwealth - i really took to this. Easy reading, but no plot drive
My sister the serial killer - straight-faced satire. It’s terrific. But I can’t predict anyone’s response
The Passenger - the 1/2 recommendation. It’s a flawed messy book. I enjoyed it enough but it didn’t stick like Stella Maris, the other part, has.

As for Patron Saint of Liars - it’s ok. Wonderful opening. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you feel you need more Patchett.

I loved Cloud Atlas and Akin. Never Let Me Go wasn't a book I loved but it stayed with me a long time. Inherent Vice and Commonwealth were good, too.

I thank everyone that discussed any of the books on my list. I will definitely make use of those comments as I proceed.

It has occurred to me that, first I need to detail the list of books I have read or evaluated for reading in 2024. I will be posting two lists.

One, are those books that I read to completion and produced some sort of commentary on.

A second list will be for those books that I evaluated for reading but DNF for reasons of my own, generally NOT for the quality of the book. Instead, it was for a mis-match with my needs at the time.

My first list contains books that I really enjoyed reading. Just to connect with my previous posts, here are some stats:

•9 LM3 books
•1 LM1 book
•5 LM0 books

Just to show that I do like some books with a postmodern content
•7 Postmodern books

This next set of books are those that I chose because they were ranked highly on my usual scale.
Being a member of this group doesn't mean that you shouldn't take this as a recommendation against them for anyone but myself.

•8 LM3 books
•3 LM1 book
•1 LM0 books

•8 Postmodern books

The most notable stat is that 8 of these books had a postmodern component. Meanwhile my good books also have postmodern books. These are all very high level and I just can't handle them.

The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller

While I have been working out details on books I have read, and those I didn't finish, and new books to read my holds have started to come in.
This book is one that I have had on my list for quite a while and a subject the Iliad that I have zero background in.

I started reading the book about 1 week ago and found the story line somewhat disappointing. The comment by dchaikin that it was standard lit-fic sounded a bit of a warning.

Since I haven't any background in the Iliad, I decided to read some in-depth reviews to understand the background to the story that the author assumed a reader of this book would have.

I read a review by a knowledgeable Iliad expert. Over many very detailed paragraphs the faithfulness of this portrayal of PATROCLUS and ACHILLES was totally challenged.

It appears to me that the details about these characters in this book could be plausible as a story line, but I would be none the wiser about the Iliad.

After 14% of the book read it became a DNF for me.

I now have two books on loan that I am reading.

Somebody's Fool by Richard Russo and Weyward by Emilia Hart

Both are right in part of my interests and very promising. Will report when I finish either of them.

The Weward book is especially interesting as part of the promo says:

"Weaving together the stories of three extraordinary women across five centuries, Emilia Hart's Weyward is an enthralling novel of female resilience and the transformative power of the natural world."

>193 JoeB1934: "Since I haven't any background in the Iliad, I decided to read some in-depth reviews to understand the background to the story that the author assumed a reader of this book would have."

I honestly never know how to approach retell stories, so i end up staying away from them (if i know they're a retell). They seem quite popular recently, or is this just my perception? Do i need to be familiar with the original story? Is it going change A LOT? It's never clear for me.

>195 dicentra8: >193 JoeB1934: There aren’t so many stories to be told and probably all were covered in the ancient Greek classics. It was once considered in the old universities of Oxford and Cambridge in England, that a background in the classics was necessary for a good education.

And so the privileged sent their children to those universities to get what they considered a solid background.

The “classics” covered the main stories of human-kind -
Falling in love
Unrequited love
Lust
War
Home-coming
Seduction
Grief
Mother love
Birth
Death

I may have missed a couple but the list is limited.

So in many way people in various arts are retelling these stories and so knowing the original makes it interesting and at times makes the creator seem “clever”.

For example, the Coen brothers movie, “Brother Where Art Thou?” is a retelling of Homer’s Odyssey. Creators like to put their own slant/ interpretation on the storytelling. Knowing the original story can add interest.

Of course you can see Brother Where Art Thou without knowing anything about the Odessey but knowing the original story makes sense off some scenes - such as the Sirens who lure travelers off course. Brilliantly done HERE.

Creative people just enjoy reinterpreting, and classically educated people claim it’s important.

Me being a working-class gal, I never had a classical education. I’m educated but my left-wing parents didn’t tell me about its importance or did not know. But I’ve educated myself to a very limited extent.

This classics 101 is just my understanding and I am sure others can explain in more depth and/or from a different pov.

>196 kjuliff: i feel like i learned something there. I certainly did not get a classical education. (My kids would have had to go to an only ok and very Christian private school to get a self-proclaimed classical education.)

>197 dchaikin: I think it’s more of an English thing. And maybe it’s dying out there. But certainly major literary and film critics are au fait with the Greek classics.

>196 kjuliff: It occurs to me that the situation in this book is that it purports to be a re-telling of 2 main characters in the Iliad.

What struck me was the following two phrases from the review I read.

"PATROCLUS
In the Iliad Patroclus is one of the Achaeans’ most formidable warriors: he kills more than almost any other character, including a son of Zeus; "

"ACHILLES
The first line (nay word) of the Iliad identifies the crux of the story: rage. Achilles’s rage is his defining characteristic, not his warmth or his kindness or his gentleness. "

In this book The Song of Achilles, these two characters were portrayed as the opposite. Is such a transformation to be expected?

>199 JoeB1934: I haven’t read The Song of Achilles but gather the personalities of Achilles and Patroclus differ from what you’ve read of them in the Iliad. I can’t really comment but I suppose any writer can do what they want with these two classical characters, though it would seem a little unusual for them to reverse their personalities.

I think Miller was sharp in her portrayal. The Iliad is a puff-up-the-warriors piece. It’s an artistic stylized ideal. The reality underneath could be in many forms. Miller’s version ties to the facts stated within the Iliad decently and sometimes cleverly. She doesn’t honor the stylized representation, however. She, of course, undermines that. It’s not hard to undermine. But she was clever in how she did it. My take. 🙂

I'm sorry you were disappointed in Song of Achilles, Joe. I wonder if part isn't in expectation. The book is not meant to teach you about the Iliad, rather it's an exploration of what type of relationship might have been possible between two characters from the Iliad. It's about love and friendship and grief and motherhood, duty and fate. If you are interested in the Iliad, try reading it. There are lots of translations out there, one to suit every type of reader. As for Patroclus, in the book (and the Iliad), at a pivotal point in the war, he disguises himself as Achilles and goes on a rampage, even killing the son of Zeus you mention. Achilles rage is also a big part of the last half or third of the book. His rage is linked to hubris. Since Miller starts with Achilles' childhood, the rage is something that develops over the course of the book, and is explored as more than Achilles=rage. I do not believe that Miller reversed their personalities.

One last note: the figures of Patroclus and Achilles have been written about by many of the ancients, not just Homer. These differing accounts lead to different interpretations. Miller makes a point of using the Homeric version, so there is no dipping of Achilles by the heel, for instance. Different reviews that you read may also be comparing the book with different traditions and stories of the famous duo, not just the Homeric one.

Edited to fix error.

>201 dchaikin: As per usual, your observations are excellent. A large number of members rated the book very highly and my reaction was one that comes from my own experience. Thus, no one should avoid reading this book simply because it didn't suit me.

>202 labfs39: Iliad spoiler well, Patroclus tried to kill Hector. He didn’t succeed. Hector kills Patroclus, provoking Achilles to kill Hector. 🙂

>204 dchaikin: Whoops! I meant Sarpedon, the son of Zeus that Joe mentioned. Will fix.

>201 dchaikin: I was pleased to read your comment, Dan, as I think she is honest to the facts of the Iliad, she just goes beyond into the spaces that the Iliad doesn't cover: personal relationship, the women's lives, how they became the people they were, etc. Just as the Iliad is only one ancient version of P and A, so is Song of Achilles only one reinterpretation of the Iliad.

>202 labfs39: My reaction surely does revolve around expectations. I did with this book what I often do in reading a traditional literary mystery book. (Even though this was not a mystery.) Look to see what the 5-star reviewers were saying and the 1-2 star reviewers were saying. My problem is that I wasn't far enough into the book to see the raves, instead when I saw a reviewer that pointed out the mischaracterizations, I saw PATROCLUS being strong where, dare I say, I saw him as wimpy.

Even so, the second factor is my inexperience with literary styles and the flexibility that is enjoyed by authors. I regularly identify with 1, or 2 characters in the story and if I was to forge ahead in this book I would have discovered all those important details you described.

I could go back and start the book over again, but I am moving on.

I have performed some trimming on my previous list of candidate books to read. I started with the previous list and added a number of LM0 books which provides an improved balance to my reading. There are now 39 books I believe I can read this year. Of course, I will be obtaining more new ideas from those other members I follow for.

In arriving at this reduced list I have attempted to create a balance in subject matter and sub-genres.

Some of this balance across important sub-genres are as follows:

• 39 Books Total
• 37 Literary Fiction
• 27 Mystery
• 15 Magical Realism
• 12 Postmodern
• 11 Books about Books
• 11 Science Fiction
• 12 Relationships
• 33 Historical Fiction
• 21 Romance
• 19 Aging
• 12 Fantasy
• 12 Coming of Age

You need to remember that many of these sub-genres, and others can be present in any specific book. I am simply indicating the number of books containing a recognizable theme.

I’m trying remember what’s new. I loved Prophet Song, Nervous Conditions, and Invisible Man. Prophet Song is creative with construction, distracting the reader with details. It worked for me. Nervous Conditions is a sort of fictional autobiography capturing Zimbawe’s stumble into the contemporary world. Invisible Man is a complex, serious but also playful and creative and energized, classic.

I have decided to start with this list of books in a continuation at https://www.librarything.com/topic/358564#n8425474

>210 dchaikin: You remember these books because I got ideas for them from you over the last few months. They all sound like good reads to me.

>160 JoeB1934:(sorry just found this thread and am catching up)

Used to be I depended on NYT and other book review media. and I still love browsing bookstores to see what treasures I can find. But since being on online book groups, Ive been really chosing from what other members are reading. Lately since being here, Ive made it a point to choose books in translation, and the folk here manage to come up with them easily. So my book tbr list multiplies....I also still go through published book reviews, and get the odd suggestion from my sis

>170 JoeB1934: love this review; It was believed that she intended her book to be five chapters;" The tragedy is her death along with millions of others terminated the five book plan for this sequenc" Ive read some of her others that were very good Read her The Ball for a master class in using few words to say volumes. This one even missing chapters is her masterpiece

>173 JoeB1934: I like Auster, and love NYC, but this one didn't thrill me either, ended up being a DNF as well I agree with many others who sing the praises for book of illusion among my top ten books for the year I read it.

>193 JoeB1934: fwiw, if you read circe then song of achilles would make more sense. I for one did not like this nearly as much as the former, but I enjoyed the twisting of the original. Ive always loved "fractured fairy tales" (thos of a certain age will know what I mean) One of my fav authors of this genre is Natalie Haynes Her take on on Homer is a thousand ships which looks at the end and aftermath of the war, through the eyes of the women left. Its not so much a retelling, but a returning the story to a womans POV she does that in all her books, given each story a very different outlook.

>216 cindydavid4: Thank you very much for these comments, as they help me get another viewpoint about the books.

I want, especially to thank you for reading this complete thread from the beginning. I image that some of it was likely extraneous for you.

Just in case you have arrived at this point but missed my brief mention earlier I have decide to open a new thread at

https://www.librarything.com/topic/358564#n8425474

>217 JoeB1934: well tbh I skimmed a bit :) but you are welcomed and enjoyed it

and thanks for the heads up. Hate thinking Im talking to an empty room