2019 Reading Thread - Book by Book, Jill Natters On

And we're starting a fresh new thread!!! Pub Piffle pushed me over the top. I'm reading The City of Brass which in some ways is quite good but which is a full 500+ pages.

And we're starting a fresh new thread!!! Pub Piffle pushed me over the top. I'm reading The City of Brass which in some ways is quite good but which is a full 500+ pages.

All the best with your 2019 reading.

Happy reading!

Wishing you a year of great books and time to read them!

>1 jillmwo: Ah ha, here’s the new thread! Happy reading for 2019. :)

>1 jillmwo: >2 jillmwo:

It's too early to start piffling.

>7 suitable1: I didn't think it was ever a bad time to piffle.

All the best for reading and life in 2019.

Happy bookish endeavors, Jill!

Happy reading!

I'm bad at piffling, it requires a combination of language skills and wit that I just don't have. I'm not beyond being entertained, though ;-)

Glad to see you all here and welcome, Busifer, clamairy, YouKneeK, haydninvienna, majkia, Peace2, Narilka, pgmcc, suitable1 (and yes, suitable1, you're right, but the computer gremlin in charge of redundancy efforts here at LT is clearly keeping himself occupied).

Happy New Thread!

Jill, re the Rituals of Dinner: I quote:

It was good manners, and openly acknowledged as such, not to draw attention to oneself, not to be loud, not to be embarrassing, not to be repetitious or boring. ... one was expected, by our standards, to be deliberately artificial, thinking of subjects for conversation in advance, preparing witticisms, polishing paradoxes, seeking occasions to insert them--but must all be done with an air of complete naturalness and simplicity, with what the French were calling je ne sais quoi. ... Ease constituted proof that one had had long practice in the social graces; one had 'good breeding' and 'a fine upbringing'.

(p 293, speaking of English manners in the mid18th century). Sounds like a Piffle Party to me.

>14 haydninvienna: and I've ordered myself a copy. It should be here by the time I return from my next business trip.

>15 jillmwo: I’ve just finished mine. A bit of a pile of snippets as I said before, but fascinating all the same.

>15 jillmwo: & >14 haydninvienna:
The discussion of The Rituals of Dinner has reminded me of our visit to the chateaux at Blois. The tour was fascinating and the kitchen and dining areas were particularly well preserved and the tour guide very informative. We learned that table knives have rounded ends because the French king (I cannot recall which one) was disgusted with the habit of his male dinner companions who, using their sharp pointed daggers at dinner to cut their food as was the wont of the time, used their daggers as toothpicks to remove pieces of food from between their teeth. He insisted on round ended knives being used at dinner to prevent this disgraceful behaviuor.

Another interesting fact was what costituted condiments on the dinner tables of the royals at the time; salt, pepper, poison antidotes. Apparently assassination by poison was commin so every table had phials of antidote for the most commonly used poisons at the ready with the salt, pepper and vinegrette.

As long as we're talking about assassination and royalty, if you've not already read it, pgmcc, please allow me to introduce you to:

The City of Brass by S.A. Chakraborty

This 2017 debut novel deserved all of the nominations that it got. As fantasy goes, it represents a novel (meaning new) and compelling universe of mythological beings and conflicts. There are three key characters -- Nahri, Ali, and Dara. Nahri is an interesting mix of thief, grifter and healer. We’re initiated into the ways of this universe through her eyes. Ali is a prince, a member of a ruling family, torn between his ideas of moral behavior and those of his father, the king. Throughout the book, we see their points of view -- both of them somewhat unbalanced in their navigation of a once-familiar world but now one in conflict with their beliefs.

The most obvious characteristic of this novel is its length and the slow-build of a surprisingly complex story. It is about 525 pages and the exotic names of characters and deities will slow one down if you can only read in snatches of time. That said, every time I found the slow build of this novel to be irritating, the author would throw in an unforeseen plot twist. I might have abandoned the novel but for that truly consistent aspect of the author’s storytelling. Then, about two-thirds of the way through, the author has supplied the reader with sufficient information and the action picks up dramatically. Now one might guess at some of what’s in play, but I found it fascinating the way that the novel’s initial close-up view of a single individual’s world opened up to a cosmic conflict in the end. This is actually the first volume in a trilogy. That’s off-putting for those like me who tend to favor stand-alone titles -- particularly in the genre of fantasy. But I am sufficiently intrigued by Chakraborty’s imagined world that I went ahead and ordered the next volume due out later this month. The second volume is entitled, The Kingdom of Copper.

In terms of giving you a flavor of the fantasy universe, The City of Brass features horrific monsters and magical weapons that flame in battle, but there are also charming magical conveniences (such as prayer rugs that fly about the library in order to allow attendants to bring volumes on demand to the privileged class). The major theme is one of the various uses of power. Without being overly political, the story is definitely one of power and privilege; some characters have it and some do not, but few are whom you expect them to be in the final analysis. I fretted at one point because I feared that our focus was going to be some form of world-traveling, star-crossed lovers, but the author avoids that. I’m not sure where her second volume might be headed and I’m curious enough to have ordered the immediate sequel for delivery as soon as it comes out.

This might not be my choice for Book of the Year but I do think it was a worthwhile read.

>18 jillmwo: I have not read a lot of fantasy lately but your description of this has elements that make it attractive. The plot twists and the politics sound intriguing.

I have not lost sight of your firing this directly at me while you still nurse your wounds from Into The Woods, but as I, like you, appreciate direct BB hits I shall plunge into this in the near future. I do recall your praising it somewhere in the Pub. Thank you for the recommendation.

ETA: Ordered.

>17 pgmcc: as to the knife points, Margaret Visser made exactly this point, although generally (that is, it was not specific to the chateaux of Blois).

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Jill!

Hippo Birdie two ewe!

Happy birthday Jill, and Happy new year too! I hope 2019 is a year of great things, in books and in life.

>18 jillmwo: Sounds like this one is something I would like too. Might wait to see if book 2 holds up though before adding it to the wishlist.

>18 jillmwo: One of the things that interested me in your comments on The City of Brass was my perception of similarities with Dune.

Happy birthday, Jill!

>25 pgmcc: There are very general parallels, but The City of Brass is substantially less didactic than Dune. The story telling isn't as heavy. I think City has more light touches to it. And I think there's less of the Messianic aspect in it as well. Paul Atreides is the One-And-Only in Dune whereas I don't think Nahri is intended to be. She's more obviously fallible. If she turns into a superhero in Kingdom of Copper, I'll be more than disappointed. I shall be peeved.

Happy birthday - I hope there are many wonderful books in your future.

Many thanks to all of you for the birthday wishes. I'm well situated and well-equipped with books. If only I didn't have to have a job in order to support the book habit.

The vagaries of this weekend’s weather have caused my local library to cancel the book group gathering today. That’s okay; I’m not enthusiastic about leaving the house when we’re experiencing a 30 degree drop in temperature in conjunction with 50mph winds. At any rate, we would have been discussing The Secrets of Wishtide by Kate Saunders. This title received above average reviews from the Wall Street Journal as well as from the Historical Novel Society.

Based on my initial investigation (reviews, reading the Kindle sample chapters, etc.), I thought this would be a quick read, without gore or other unpleasantness. The sleuth is a 52-year old widow of a member of the clergy in nineteenth-century England. Laetitia Rodd is not entirely without means, but her financial situation is occasionally improved by searching out additional information to aid her solicitor brother, Fred. The Secrets of Wishtide is Kate Saunders response to the challenges faced by women of that period who are abandoned by the cads they love. Specifically, she was responding to Dickens’ wicked character, Steerforth, in David Copperfield.

Now here is where I confess that my sole exposure to David Copperfield was through reading the version from Classic Comics Illustrated when I was 8 or 9 years old. Based on that experience, I have never gone out of my way to read the full length novel. So I simply relied on Wikipedia to give me clues as to the parallels between The Secrets of Wishtide and the various elements of Dickens’ novel. I would imagine that if you have a greater familiarity with Dickens’ work, you’d be pretty quick to work out what was happening in Saunders’ novel. As it was, I figured out by about two-thirds of the way through who the author intended to be the final villain, but couldn’t quite determine whether the villain’s identity was tied to one of the other characters with whom the reader had spent more time. I was sufficiently taken with the setting and with the secondary characters to go along with the story until Saunders was ready to show me the final resolution.

Saunders provides very positive female characters, each with varying degrees of competency in dealing with the social inequities of the time. Her commentary on those social inequities are not expressed in particularly subtle terms but neither do the expressions overwhelm the entertainment of the mystery itself. This is not great literature. It’s not even particularly literary fiction because the prose is simply serviceable. However, as a light read, it’s enjoyable and the complications to the resolution of the case occur at decent intervals. I’d pick up a second one (there will be six in the planned series), but I probably would wait for the paperback.

Hey Jill, how many birthday books did you get? :o)

Well, the first lot tumbled in the front door today. But before I tell you what I got, I need to tell you about a food experience I had last week at a marvelous restaurant. Dining out with colleagues celebrating our various successful ventures, I ate truffles for the first time. Not the chocolate kind, but rather the kind one shaves and puts on creamy risotto. It was a memorable meal. My boss is quite the foodie and he is aided and abetted by our office systems manager. This was one of the top restaurants in Baltimore (Magdalena at the Hotel Ivy). The wine was excellent, the food was impressive and the laughter frequently loud and raucous. But it was the first time I've ever eaten truffles!

Now a number of you are also foodies. Hugh (hfglen) recommended Peter Mayles’ book French Lessons and I know that pgmcc has many times commented upon the joys of food in the South of France when he’s doing his “training”. So that was one of the books that arrived today as part of the book haul. An impulse buy that looks like a pleasant easy read. Also recommended by the foodies here in the Pub were books by Margaret Visser. Much Depends on Dinner and The Ritual of Dinner are also sitting quietly on the ottoman.

I’m not a foodie. I’m not even a particularly good cook. I do not live to eat as some do. I eat to live. I made a decent lasagna over the weekend in order to combat the chill (and heaven knows, I’m better at cooking than the spousal unit), but I am still not as good as MrsLee or some of the other folks here in the Publ. But I don’t mind learning. So just as MrsLee is pursuing education about things that begin with the letter, “C”, I am going to learn about food in 2019.

Now, because it is Tuesday when new books are issued, my copy of the newly published Kingdom of Copper is here. The Book Depository tells me that it shipped Into the Woods: How Stories Work and Why We Tell Them on January 16 but that probably won’t show up until the weekend. Additionally I’ve been informed by DHL Express that my delivery of Folio Books from the UK may be expected tomorrow. Those are also part of the birthday binge of books. (You might be able to tell that the gift cards were totally exhausted in very short order).

We’ll just have to see what the nice postman brings on Tuesday.

Oh, and does anyone really want (or need) to hear about the murder mystery where the bear did it?

How did you manage to survive as long as you have without experiencing magnificent truffles? Never mind. It matters not. What matters is that now you have! :o)

Enjoy all of those wonderful books!

Edited to add: >33 jillmwo: No.

>32 jillmwo: That is a great list of books. Enjoy your culinary reading and experiences. I have yet to have truffle.

I hope you find Into the Woods interesting.

Is your "Into the Woods" a different one from the John Yorke book on stories or have you experienced a Touchstone glitch?

>33 jillmwo: How many bears were there?

>35 pgmcc: I fixed the touchstone. Thanks for the heads up. I am anxiously awaiting the Yorke book.

>36 haydninvienna: There was only one bear but he was both sneaky and intelligent creature. The narrator suggests that the bear snuck up on the victim as she stood waiting in the woods. He smacked her upside the head from behind and witnesses swore that they heard a scream. We suspect the victim had eyes in the back of her head as we can't think how she screamed when struck with the bear being behind her. This aspect took up a certain amount of time in the group discussion. (By way of explanation, one of the group's members had found the book on Project Gutenberg and it had such lovely illustrations that we were lured in to reading it. A sad life lesson.)

>37 jillmwo: At first I thought the book was The Fourth Bear by Jasper Fforde, but clearly not. So what was it? Inquiring minds etc ...

>35 pgmcc: Errata:
I did have truffle before. Last year a friend in France gave us some goats’ cheese which had truffle in it. It is a particular favourite of hers but it was wasted on us. I think goats’ cheese has too strong a flavour of its own to allow us a good opportunity to taste the truffle. I must change my #35 statement to say I have yet to have a proper tasting of truffle.

>32 jillmwo: Last year was my first for tasting truffle, and we repeated the experience this year because we loved it. I am whittling away at one that is in my refrigerator at the moment, infusing some eggs for future enjoyment. Last night we had them on seared scallops. Mmmm. Tonight will be prawns. Glad you enjoyed your first taste, and avoid truffle oil at all costs. :)

>40 MrsLee: There are some decent truffle oils, but they are hard to find. My daughter gave me a 2 ounce bottle of truffle* oil for Christmas. It cost a small fortune.

*Yes, I checked it out online and it's actual truffle, MrsLee.

>41 clamairy: :D

>38 haydninvienna: As a quick aside, the book was The Girl At Central by Geraldine Bonner. I believe it was written back in the 1920s. As previously noted, we found it on Project Gutenberg and were entranced by the cover art of the girl working the switchboard (as well as by some of the other charming illustrations). It was only about 80% of the way in that we all realized that it might not be an entirely happy selection. OTOH, when one is seeking soothing reading materials, one is prone to grasp at straws.

Peter Mayle died in 2018. His obit in the New York Times is in some ways both more and less informative than his entry in Wikipedia. (See (potentially paywalled) obituary at https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/obituaries/peter-mayle-who-wrote-of-a-year-in... and compare with the wikipedia entry at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mayle )

As noted before,I wouldn’t have picked this one up except for hfglen and pgmcc but French Lessons: Adventures with Knife, Fork and Corkscrew was an enjoyable read, full of culinary tidbits that I would never have thought of. As an example, it would never have occurred to me to add a drop or two of Madeira wine to an omelette. I had no idea that there was an annual messe des truffes. The chapter in French Lessons about chicken makes me uncomfortably aware that I’ve probably been doing it wrong. All the same, Mayle’s accounts of his gastronomic research in the French countryside are deft combinations of humor and Gallic expertise.

I did (and I blame this bit on MrsLee for sharing the whole $5.00 credit on Kindle thing) buy the digital edition of Mayle’s bestseller, My Year in Provence. The Times obit notes that his surprising fame made his life in Southern France a bit more difficult; tourists over-ran his home looking for photos and autographs in exchange for jars of marmalade. He was a markedly successful advertising executive (if you review that Wikipedia article) and that had an impact on his style. It taught him to be concise, informative and where possible, entertaining. French Lessons is all of those things and a robust encouragement to experience life and culture in the South of France. I had a Dutch colleague once who loved her vacations in France. I wish I still had her contact information; I’m sure she could further amplify on Mayle’s material.

As it is, I am look forward to hearing from pgmcc about his next excursion to the chateaux of France. I shall learn vicariously thru his sampling of French wines, perfect omelettes, and exploration of truffles.

>44 jillmwo:

Jill, I think you are setting a high bar for my training session holiday in France. Remember, I shall have a lot of encoded material to decipher and assimilate. I will barely have time to eat my paté de foie gras and drink my well chilled glass of moelleux.

>44 jillmwo: Bah! I managed to resist this one until now, but when three of my most trusted recommenders recommend something, I would be a fool to hold out any longer. I think this is one I would like as a real book, not Kindle. Putting it on my ever-growing wishlist at Amazon. Does that make us even on the whole $5 credit thingy?

>44 jillmwo: I propped a bit at “concise, informative and entertaining” in relation to advertising copy, but then a memory stirred: did he ever work for David Ogilvy? Yes he did. Here is a really left-field recommendation: if you have any interest in how advertising ought to be done, get hold of a copy of Confessions of an Advertising Man. Ogilvy was a strong proponent of the idea that customers should not be treated like idiots.

>44 jillmwo: I too made a note of this book when it was previously mentioned, and now you, too, add to the praise. And in such a way! Resistance is futile; added to my list.

I am not too fond of traditional French cooking. Too much innards and onions and stews, too much like traditional Swedish cuisine, except maybe some of the herbs (which can't grow here). All the same some of the best food that I've had has been on French soil.

>48 Busifer: French food mostly strikes me as good to eat, but high in calories (butter, cream sauce, etc.). I therefore try not to do too much of it. As it happened, the restaurant where I was served truffles made such a good risotto (as the setting for the truffles) that when I compared it to my own risotto "failure", it seems that I am safe from eating too much of that kind of thing.

>47 haydninvienna: I have never forgotten Vance Packard's Hidden Persuaders. I have long been persuaded that marketing of any sort as an activity presents ethical problems for me. I don't quite hiss when they enter the room, but I can't ever work up enthusiasm.

>46 MrsLee: I think you will enjoy almost anything by Peter Mayle. Your cooking skills are such that I imagine that you will be inspired to new heights.

Where's pgmcc? I am slowly working my way through Into The Woods. I say slowly not because it's difficult to absorb in terms of understanding but because I have to stop and grab a book to see how the theory works. Or I have to re-consider the movie structure of Indiana Jones, etc. Enjoyable reading, but it does encourage much re-visiting of the source materials. One thing I do think I have gotten out of the book so far is that looking at the five-act approach explains why science fiction aficionados may enjoy so many trilogies.

>49 jillmwo: Jill, I've not read Into the Woods, but reading the description, I'll say that he's not the only one talking about the underlying structure of stories. You might enjoy Lisa Cron's work as well, which discusses brain science and storytelling.

>49 jillmwo: Glad to hear you are enjoying Into the Woods. I found the psychology and socioligical elements interesting. I am interested to know your views as a professional in the world of publishing. How much of it is new and how much of it is rehashing old ideas?

By the way, I am on a secret mission to pre-Brexit England to celebrate my granddaughter’s first birthday.

Keep well and I hope you continue to find Into the Woods of interest.

>51 pgmcc:
What is your cover story?

>52 suitable1: That is my cover story.

>53 pgmcc: Your secret mission is safe with us.

>54 ScoLgo: I appreciate your discretion.

Glad you're enjoying Into the Woods. I didn't exactly take a bullet on that one, but I might have been grazed. I'm waiting to see who else likes it.

John Yorke’s Into The Woods: A Five-Act Journey Into Story is a worthwhile read. In our society, in this particular point in time, we are as frequently exposed to story in the context of the television or movie screen as in the context of a book. It’s important (at least in my view) to develop some degree of literacy for grasping how story is delivered in both of those contexts. The requirements for the two are related but not quite the same. As Yorke notes, writing for the screen is the ultimate in “showing, not telling”. As just a quick example, the camera can deliver more efficiently a sense of an outdoor landscape, or of an interior most efficiently than Thomas Hardy delivers in a chapter that follows the path of a wind-blown leaf in the first chapter of a 500 page novel.

Alternately, there is also a greater chance of misinterpretation. Watching something on screen, we cannot know the interior life of the characters in the way that is possible with an omniscient narrator speaking to us via the written word. Hardy’s descriptive prose could convey a sense of why the wind-blown leaf was important; I’m more adrift in my interpretation when I simply see the leaf without any of his selective word usage.

Yorke’s book looks closely at the building blocks of story and how those are used. His focus is predominantly (although not exclusively) on the use in film. He references widely-recognized mainstream movies and television shows (Casablanca, Indiana Jones and the Lost Ark, Thelma and Louise, Breaking Bad, The West Wing, The Wire, etc.) and it’s because those are such widely-known cultural narratives the reader understands -- perhaps more quickly -- how the blocks fit together.

The thing that makes it hard (speaking entirely for myself) is that movies and TV shows move so rapidly. The viewer experience them in real time and the action moves on; you can’t “flip back a few pages” to pick up an overlooked line of dialogue that actually proves to be important. I understand the building of narrative best by studying the print; others grasp it more immediately by watching.

I have never watched EastEnders (a TV series on which Yorke worked) but I would imagine that reading this and then watching how the EastEnders story arc unfolds across seasons would probably highly instructive. For myself, I think I’ll probably read Dorothy B. Hughes novel, In a Lonely Place and then watch the Humphrey Bogart movie of the same name (1950) to see if I can understand the reasons for how that film was structured. (As a side note, what does it say that LT offered me a link to the movie just now as a touchstone ahead of the source material written by Hughes. We reference movies as much as we reference books in our conversations here.)

I could make some of Yorke’s connections in thinking about narrative just referencing Christie’s stand-alone novel, Murder is Easy. (Although I don’t think it would be worthwhile to dig up the old ‘80’s movie of that one with Bill Bixby and Helen Hayes. It wasn’t a particular compelling movie as I recall.)

I think reading the Chakraborty series of The City of Brass and The Kingdom of Copper in close conjunction with the reading of Into the Woods might also be useful. A trilogy of novels is sometimes as large a rendition as a movie when it comes to telling a far-reaching, in-depth tale. Chakraborty's novel would translate well to the screen, I think. So once pgmcc finishes reading the first one in that trilogy, I'll hope he'll talk about that story in light of his having just finished Yorke's book. I expect to learn much from his discussion as a consequence and I've got my notebook and pen ready to take notes.

P.S. Yorke is the only writer I have encountered who successfully and convincingly talks about how fractals fit into storytelling. That item alone should induce clamairy to take a look at it. (I actually thought of you when I was reading that bit.)

>57 jillmwo:
Jill, I am pleased you found Into the Woods interesting. I must say that I was conscious of the structure when reading Killing Commendatore and The Heat of the Day.

I did not get any reading done today so I am only a few pages into The Kingdom of Copper but I am liking the style and the voice. I shall keep you informed of my progress and thoughts.

Thank you for sharing your views on "Into the Woods". As I said before, I was interested to hear your professional opinion on the content of Yorke's book. I would not be sufficiently well read on structure to know whether or not Yorke was simply regurgitating general critical analysis concepts or presenting something of note, or presenting the old ideas in a novel (if you excuse the pun) way. Whatever the truth in that regard I certainly found reading the book an educational experience.

>58 pgmcc: Well, some of the discussion wasn't new -- talking about the innocent's journey into the heart of the forest is a construct recognized by earlier scholars. But I think what struck me as being different was the application to storytelling in the context of film. I'm challenged by the idea of going back and examining scenes in different works of fiction to see if his point about mini-arcs holds for the type of material I read. I'm just an educated layperson in this context, not a real scholar. But if we educate ourselves to notice things in our reading (as you noted structure in Killing Commendatore, that's one more means of furthering our enjoyment as well as creating a life of the mind (which sounds pompous, but I hope you understand my meaning.)

>59 jillmwo: that's one more means of furthering our enjoyment as well as creating a life of the mind (which sounds pompous, but I hope you understand my meaning.)

I believe I understand exactly what you mean and I do not think it pompous at all. I had been thinking about adding a comment in my post #58 that would have said much the same thing. I was going to say that being conscious of the structure added a whole new dimension to the pleasure of reading.

I do, however, believe there is a slight dark cloud with being aware of structure; one is almost distracted from the story by watching the structure. Also, watching the structure can take the magic out of the story, be it in film form or book. For years I have watched movies and TV programmes and predicted the type and timing of events that are about to happen. I have found this to be the case when watching the first two episodes of Star Trek Discovery. I can see what they are doing and predict what is going to happen with almost scary accuracy. It almost makes watching such programmes superfluous. (By such programmes I mean programmes that follow structures/formulae too obviously.)

I agree, that if one is too prone to analyzing what one is reading for entertainment, then the enjoyment is lost. There are at least two very different kinds of reading. The first kind (the fast kind) is where you get on the roller coaster, allow the author to tell you anything in support of the story and where one doesn't question the logic behind the events of the tale. If Scotty is spouting absurd techno-babble about the engines in order to provide Kirk with the rationale for beaming down to the planet, I may not care because I'm mostly interested in finding out what is gong to happen planet-side. That's an unthinking kind of reading experience.

The second kind of reading is consciously analytical. In the instance of a murder mystery, I may slow down -- even halt reading in linear fashion -- and pick out what Yorke discusses. What did the detective think the result of an interview might be? Did that interview w/ the witness eliminate the most promising suspect? Did the scene end with a revelation that points the dismayed detective in the direction of the ingenue love-interest? Yorke talks about each scene having within it a tension of opposites. If I stop reading the mystery on the basis of a roller coaster ride and switch over to the analytical approach with the intent of identifying those opposites, it ceases to be an entertaining read. It's not fair to the author to do that mid-stream because the author has constructed his or her narrative with a careful eye towards the emotional satisfaction of the hero's journey ending happily.

Personally, when I am reading a book for the purpose of leading a discussion about that book, the initial read should be the roller-coaster approach so that I can have the same experience of the book as the other members of the group. Oh, I absolutely was misdirected in my suspicions as to whodunnit or actually, I began to suspect Miss Scarlett was the murderer about two-thirds of the way through. Honestly if I guess the murderer the first time through the mystery, then it's not a very good mystery because I'm not that kind of reader when I'm reading for entertainment. I only pick up the sprinkled clues as to the killer's identity on the second read. The second reading of a book must be that more analytical or slower walk-through of figuring out how the author did his or her job. How did he or she distract me from the vital piece of the puzzle? How did he or she convey the thematic message that I picked up on that made me think this one was above average? Why did this novel work for me?

When dealing with movies, I'm almost always in the position of having to watch a movie multiple times, because I NEVER get it the first time. I'm not that analytical in a movie theater. The experience is more immediately immersive and therefore, I more easily succumb to being misdirected in whichever way the director intends. I don't think about movies in terms of camera angles (unless they're excrutiatingly blatant). Yorke's discussion how how shifting from one character's storyline to an alternate storyline the episode in West Wing created an impetus for the action was useful to me because while I was aware of the technique, I never considered that was why it was done. I kind of knew that it was supposed to be a cliff-hanger, but never really thought about it as a technique for interests.

I'm tired as I'm writing this so I'm probably not expressing it well, but I did enjoy Yorke's work because it may help me watch movies more intelligently. It will spill over to some extent to my reading as well, because the overlap in narrative technique is likely going to be in the books. I might have more instances of "Oh, I see what you did there" on my initial read, but I still need to consciously flip the switch in my brain to do real analysis.

If I go directly to the analysis of a book (because I haven't finished it through the first time and I am supposed to talk about it in two hours), then that's a different experience altogether. Then I'm just picking up the main plot points and identifying characters. Someone I know called it "gutting a book" and it's not really reading at all. Grad students do it when trying to navigate great skads of the literature in their field. There's a place for that kind of thing, but not for the ordinary reader who is seeking entertainment.

>60 pgmcc:, >61 jillmwo:
I think the ability to analyse a work cuts both ways. There is indeed the added pleasure in observing the artistry in a great book' or film's construction, but if the quality is not so good, being too sensitive to the flaws in technique leach away what pleasure might otherwise have been had in consuming it.

I avoided the formal study of literature precisely because I did not ever want to put myself in the position of having to analyse a work before I had had an opportunity to enjoy it; I am heartened to hear that the professional's preferred approach is the sane as mine.

I think, in passing, jillmwo raised an interesting question. Does LT have so many film references because we were inspired by the book to seek out its film portrayal? Certainly, for my parents' generation, they were likely to be going to the cinema to see known characters brought to life. Whereas nowadays the novelisation of a beloved film is the first voluntarily acquired book for many children, and such novelizations pay little attention to characterisation, because they assume that the reader is visualizing the actor playing the role.

Nowadays, which is the defining version? For Doctor Zhivago, is it David Lean or Boris Pasternak?

And yes, I am definitely going to have to read Into the Woods sonetime (but nit while my head is still stuffed with cotton wool!)

Jill, I am enjoying City of Brass. I did not get a seat on the bus this morning so I am still at early stages but now that I see the context and the location I am wondering if Robert Houdin is going to make an appearance. If he does, or if he doesn't, I shall have a salient recommendation for you.

Why don't I fire right now? The Magician's Wife by Brian Moore. You might find it interesting.

Now I must go to catch a bus and hopefully manage to get a seat and immerse myself in "The City of Brass" for half-an-hour.

I have now discovered “Real” magic in the book. This does not nullify my Brian Moore recommendation. “The Magician’s Wife” is historical fiction set at the same time and relates to the magic of the arabs.

I was grazed with a bullet from Into the woods and must say that the above discussion has made it a full hit - you definitely make it sound worthwhile.

In a manner of speaking I think most stories display rather a lot of their structure, and blatantly so. In some cases it spoils the story, but in other instances one can admire the craft of the storyteller. And in my humble opinion often structure and storytelling devices are blatant but neither spoil or are worthy of admiration - they just are, and you let it glide by, as pieces of driftwood on the river.

What really gets to me is when a protagonist in a film starts to expound on things, or is having confrontations with a character whose only justification (and only appearance) is to be told something or other, or used to demonstrate something, that in a book would be inner dialogue: then the author has chosen the wrong medium, or have not elaborated enough on how to show, not tell, in a way more appropriate.
(And I fiercely dislike when movies that aren't "romantic" gets added a romance, just to make a character seem more... human, or likeable, or believable. Or in the case of strong women - make them seem less threatening. Gratuitous romance is just as bad as gratuitous sex, in my opinion. At least on film.)

>64 Busifer: I agree with your point about gratuitous romance. I have seen it totally distort good stories.

I actually read Miss Pym Disposes once at least ten years ago, but gave up on it well before I ought to have done. I must have been in too great of a hurry to pick up on the real meat of Josephine Tey’s novel. Miss Pym is a woman who has “happened” to write a successful bestseller on psychology. She’s really a self-taught amateur, even though she had read up on her topic a great deal --37 different works! As a result of doing an old friend a favor, she finds herself a guest lecturer at a physical training college in the second half of the 1940s. It’s end of term so those graduating are all het up as they face Final Examinations. Still, Miss Pym observes to another member of the faculty that all these young women are seem incredibly healthy and well-adjusted.

One can’t really call this a murder mystery; the corpse dies respectably in hospital at about 75% of the way through the book. But the build is amazing and the character development extraordinarily good. One particular virtue is that the available suspects are all women. The interpretation of behaviors by faculty authority figures -- most particularly by Lucy Pym and by the College Head who invites her to be a guest at the institution -- are strikingly wrong. Because Tey is really talking about the public image presented to others vs the private self. There’s a great line “How, if it comes to that, could one have birds tearing at one’s vitals and still keep that calm face?” The ultimate impact -- expressed by Miss Pym and felt by the reader is horrifying as a result.

Give the previous discussions about “types” of reading experience on this thread, I now feel a bit chagrined. I didn’t give this book a proper chance the first time I read it. I was rushed and distracted. Fortunately, I had a three-day weekend following a intensely busy work week and I plucked it off the shelf thinking it would be an easy "re-read". Now that I’ve read it more slowly and in a more focused fashion, I am again in awe of Tey’s abilities as an author. I had done her a great disservice by dismissing this one as less satisfying than her other works.

The moral is that one owes it to oneself and to a good, hard-working author to focus and properly ingest a particular work before passing judgement!

>64 Busifer: I think one of the compelling storytelling elements in Miss Pym Disposes has to do with the initial chapter and it reflects something of what Yorke said in Into The Woods: A Five-Act Journey Into Story. Yorke said that each scene should present an arc that establishes the tension. In Miss Pym Disposes, the opening chapter consists of a scene in which Lucy Pym is awakening in a dorm room in the Physical Training College she visits. She's prying her eyelids open and thinking about her own rather isolated life; in her disrupted sleep, she hears students bouncing back and forth. She's middle-aged and wants her sleep; the students are up and at 'em, because they have classes and practices to attend. Lucy is free of that regimen without any interest in returning to that point in her life; the students are thoroughly used to it, but eager to leave.

How an author makes a scene of a woman waking up early in the morning compelling is itself a pretty challenge, but Tey does it quite well.

Visible structure that doesn’t get in the way; well executed. Always a joy.

I likeways enjoy your thoughts on what you read, even when I myself will not read that book: you add insight and perspective, which I greatly appreciate.
(And I will get around to Yorke. I just need more hours to my day, or more days to my week.)

Uh oh. Twice the BBs for Into the Woods now...

>66 jillmwo: I thought Miss Pym disposes was a great read, deceptively genteel with a real sting in its tail. I'm glad you enjoyed it more the second time around.

Magpie Murders by Anthony Horowitz is a clever and thoroughly well-planned construction. It is a traditional Golden-Age mystery set in the 1950s contained within a more modern-day mystery. The two mysteries have distinct parallels built in (particularly with regard to the characters) but the two are complementary rather than identical. There are multiple references to Agatha Christie puzzle mysteries (Five Little Pigs, for one) and the Golden Age detective created by Alan Conway, christened Atticus Pund, is a dead-ringer for Poirot. There are clear references to writers who like Arthur Conan Doyle tire of their immensely popular fictional sleuth and long to be valued for other, more heart-felt work. Magpie Murders demands engagement of the reader throughout; the importance of parallels and the book’s intent may easily elude the distracted reader.

However, the point of these nested mysteries is less about launching a new detective than it is about prompting the reader to think about the mystery novel as a form of entertainment on and off screen. The puzzle is important. Playing fair with the reader is important. As the author notes, this genre is one where the reader is working shoulder to shoulder with the detective in determining whodunnit. Where and what is the critical clue? What red herring should be dismissed as irrelevant or misleading? Character development isn’t the key to Golden-Age mystery fiction; specific roles -- ingenue, inspector, etc. -- are. Equally critical are identifiable discrepancies encountered in account of events by those in the specific role.

I did this book with the Township book group today and all were pleased with it. One peculiarity however was the format used in the initial encounter with the book. The print product used page numbers to alert the reader to shifts between the two books. If you listened to the audio book or were reading the ebook edition, you didn’t have that clue to the shift. (#failpublishers and #honestlywhoseideawasthis).

Of the reviews that were published of this title, I found the one from USA Today the most even handed in its assessment,(https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/books/2017/06/05/magpie-murders-anthony-horowitz-book-review/102328564/).

That said, it was an enjoyable read if one was in the proper mental mood for working out a puzzle; if one simply wanted to come along for the ride, it was bewildering. This was one where I was constantly making notes as I read, just to ensure I had a handle on the flow and it took me a little while to pick up on how the book designer was playing with the page numbers. Not an immersive read under such circumstances, but a thoroughly well-constructed mental exercise.

>71 jillmwo: Sounds fascinating. Thank you for the description; it is something that I probably never would have looked at otherwise.

>71 jillmwo: I enjoyed the structural exercise and puzzles of The Magpie Murders, but there was no character that I cared about enough to develop a personal interest in what was going on.

>73 Jim53: Absolutely agree with that as an issue with the book. Even Susan (narrator and amateur sleuth) was tepid rather than engaging. But Horowitz was focused primarily on crafting the puzzle rather than creating the immersive experience for the reader.

The Raven Tower is one of those books that is best served by me not telling you much about it. This is the latest stand-alone fantasy novel from Ann Leckie, released just this week on Tuesday, Feb 26, when I actually got my hands on it and I finished it today, March 2. In the early pages of this novel, the reader learns that there is a father’s impending death, there is a brother, resentful that he was not the sovereign (known in this world as the Raven’s Lease) and there is a young prince riding into the city of Vastai.

The first question one has as the reader however is “Who is narrating this story”? The narrator refers to Mawat -- the young prince -- as “he” and to Mawat’s aide-de-camp (Eolo) as “you.” The point of view belonging to this voice is not entirely omniscient. Instead, the tone of that voice is sometimes remote, sometimes mystified, sometimes uncertain. The identity of this person gradually becomes eventually becomes clear; it's one reason why the reader keep turning the pages.

The story is driven by the question of whether Mawat’s father is dead or missing and why Mawat’s uncle so swiftly moved to assume power. The theme of the book has to do with the power of language to create realities in this world. Holding power, one must be careful to phrase things delicately (somewhat obliquely) in order to avoid upsetting the balance that exists in this world. “Here is a story that I have heard” sidesteps the issue of bringing an event to pass because it does not present the story as being a fact. This becomes central to the story. This is a retelling of Hamlet and I think Leckie did it brilliantly..

I’ll bet dollars to donuts that this one gets nominated for a Hugo. Leckie’s story-telling here is sparse and very, very well done. I recommend it.

>75 jillmwo: Oooh. That does sound tempting... I think I heard something whistle past my ear, and my lobe is now bleeding.

>75 jillmwo: That one is going on my wishlist.

>75 jillmwo: I was probably going to read this anyway, but you just made it a certainty!

>75 jillmwo: Good to hear! I had it on pre-order but had just begun Seveneves, which I'm still working on, and so it just lies there, beckoning!

Now I'm starting to think that maybe I should but the Stephenson on hold, to take on Raven Tower instead, for a while.

I’m pretty sure we call this desultory reading. Not a recommendation in the bunch...

We have all encountered books that happen to contain information that no one needs. This week I read without much absorption of the actual facts, a book entitled Tea at the Blue Lantern Inn: A Social History of the Tea Room Craze in America. For what it’s worth, the craze referenced in that subtitle was driven by (1) the Temperance movement; (2) the desire of women to obtain financial independence and; (3) the rise of the automobile as something ordinary people could obtain. Women wanted someplace where they could be safe in venturing out into the world. Tea rooms were adequately refined for their sensibilities where road houses serving liquor would likely not be.

Two names that emerge early on in the development -- Kate Cranston who ran a tea room in Glasgow Scotland and the name of Frances Virginia who ran a successful set of tea rooms in Atlanta. The latter actually has a cookbook that is still in print, The South’s Legendary Frances Virginia Tea Room Cookbook.

However, I did not hit the buy button for that cookbook title. Instead while doing the grocery shopping this week, while standing in line by all those magazines, I picked up an expensive pictorial magazine publication entitled British Tea. The first third had some interesting recipes and the second third was about tea as heritage and the final third was about traveling to places where one might have a special tea experience.l. It seems highly stylized and thusly, somewhat implausible in many respects, but there was an interesting segment that talked about tea in Ireland. Specifically in Galway. What can pgmcc tell us about the G Hotel in Galway because there is an absolutely garish pink tea room that must be seen to be believed. Check out the photo. https://www.oyster.com/galway/hotels/the-g-hotel-and-spa-galway/photos/signature...

With a Bare Bodkin by Cyril Hare. Mr Pettigrew has been seconded to the Ministry of Pin Control to ensure that those who should be adhering to the wartime regulations are doing so. Sadly, half of his office is housed with him in a boarding house and the only way the group has to amuse themselves is to concoct a mystery based on themselves. Of course, part of the mystery is played out in an unfortunate way in the office and Pettigrew must work with Inspector Mallet to work out the guilty party (whether at home or in the office). There is an absurd romance that is entirely implausible but the humor allows one to forgive this.

The Wimsey Papers are actually a series of columns by Dorothy L. Sayers that appeared in the Spectator during the early years of World War II. It features correspondence between various of Sayers’ characters describing some of the absurdities of war regulations. Short enough to be read in an evening, but only available as an ebook.

I briefly revisited an Inspector Montalbano novel, Nest of Vipers to try to recall why I find the television show to be so much more compelling than the novels. This was a follow-up from watching the Montalbano series on the local foreign-language channel. Soothing television because they don’t involve gun fights (as a general rule) and because one is reading the text in subtitles rather than listening to the dialogue. The appeal of the show is all in the visuals. Camillieri writes short quick novels that aren’t terribly immersive; he doesn’t describe the setting in any detail. However on television, the scenic views of Sicily are lush and inviting which makes up for the relative lack for exciting, fast-paced action sequences.

The Art of Literary Research simply persuaded me that I was probably just as well off not pursuing a Ph.D. in English Lit. I would have rolled my eyes at too much of the required high-minded approach. Sometimes a cigar is just ...

This one arrived earlier this week -- The Lost Gutenberg, a woman who purchased one of the 45 surviving Gutenberg Bibles to be a part of her collection. Not nearly as immersive as I might have hoped. A little too breathless in tone and lacking sufficient substance to be deeply informative. One of those where you ask why...

Thanks for the heads up about The Wimsey Papers. I had not heard of this before and I love all things Wimsey.

>80 jillmwo:, >81 MrsLee: I reacted the same way MrsLee. Unfortunately it does not appear to be available at all in the UK.

>82 -pilgrim-: Oh, that's too bad. I found it on Amazon US for $3.20.

>82 -pilgrim-: Rats. That means it will either be unavailable or taxed out of all affordability in South Africa.

>80 jillmwo: The pink tea room... I'm going to have nightmares, I tell you!

I remember enjoying Montalbano when it aired here, ages ago, but never ventured into the novels. Now I'll definitely not do it. I do agree that a lot of the allure with the TV version was the visuals, and the pacing, and if that's not present in the novels they hold no special value.
With so many books out there knowing what NOT to read has a value, too!

>80 jillmwo: OH MY GOD. Peter, we need to know about this “tea room”. Is there a sign on the door with “101” on it?

>80 jillmwo: That pink tea room is a serious trip.

I find that I already have The Wimsey Papers on my kindle, but haven't read it yet. Since it's so short, I should be able to slip in some reading time for it soon.

Oh, dear. Sorry Altick didn't appeal to you -- he is writing for doctoral candidates, but I still enjoy his style and ideals (and the horror stories about careless scholarship). He's far more readable than many of his counterparts (or was, when he was assigned for a lit crit course).

P.S. Thank you for your comment about the narrator in Raven Tower the other week. It sent me back to the book, which turned out to be all that I expect from Leckie.

>89 MinuteMarginalia: Don't misunderstand me. I am not rejecting the appeal of Altick's writing. I was simply reminded with a certain amount of chagrin that I did not have either the gumption, the brains, or the temperament to do the work required by academia to get a Ph.D. The fault lies with me, not with the author of The Art of Literary Research.

>75 jillmwo: - I really enjoyed Raven Tower too.

>75 jillmwo: I finished Raven Tower last night and I agree that it is a likely candidate for a Hugo.

>75 jillmwo: I took a hit on this one too.

So yes, I've been AWOL. Apparently for longer than I'd thought. Much work, both paid as well as volunteer. But here's what I did manage to consume over the past 8 weeks or so.

The Devil’s Half Mile - historical novel based in 1798 New York City. Kind of a fun read, but one with a slow build as so frequently is the case with the first in a series. The author is taking time to introduce you to a cast of long-term characters. Justice “Justy” Flanagan is home from two years of participation in Wolfe Tone’s rebellion in Ireland, He wants to find out why his father hung himself and must engage with a spectrum of NY social classes. The Devil’s Half Mile of the title refers to Wall Street.

Beloved Poison - Gothic thriller based in 1850’s London. Well-done fiction, but not for the faint of heart. Not a cozy historical whodunnit. Interesting set-up with a non-run-of-the-mill detective (apothecary) and sidekick (junior architect). Be aware however that those are the only two characters with whom the reader may find him or herself in sympathy. Plausible in terms of attitudes expressed, grim in terms of some of the descriptions, but possessed with an excellent sense of place. The author has a Ph.D. in the social history of medicine and it shows.

The next two were really for purposes of researching a white paper on the Temperance Movement in the nineteenth-century U.S.. There was a great story about justifying your purchase of alcohol in bulk in order to make pickles. Based on the volume of alcohol required, the housewives were making many, many pickles.

Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition - Ken Burns’ documentary on Prohibition was inspired by this history. I was writing a white paper on the topic of the Temperance Movement and the women who were a part of it. The author covers the women’s contribution to the temperance movement in less space than I might have hoped. On the other hand, I did learn about Mother Thompson’s Crusade from him and a bit about Carry Nation. (I think it’s a shame that Nation became the butt of jokes in vaudeville. Rather like being on the wrong end of a meme in social media.)

Woman's World/Woman's Empire: The Woman's Christian Temperance Union in International Perspective, 1880-1930 All about the peak period of success for the WCTU. Frances Willard was quite the woman as is Lady Henry Somerset (the British head of the WCTU in England). The touchstone is wonky, so look at the work page: https://www.librarything.com/work/423148/167783444

Digital Only

The Strange Case of Harriet Hall is a Golden Age mystery written by Mornay Dalton in the early 1930’s. What makes it enjoyable is the contemporary details about life at the time and a remarkable twist in the plot about midway through. That said, it’s merely passable as a mystery and the so-called love interest ingenue is just a little too naive to be permitted to walk the streets of any city without an attendant. If I read another by this author, it will be for the experience of the read as social history.

I will now spend the rest of my three-day weekend catching up with what the rest of you have been reading!

>94 jillmwo: I thought the set up sounded familiar. I read the sequel to Beloved Poison a while back, without ever having read the original. And I agree, the author's medical knowledge tends to be very relevant!

>94 jillmwo: ”There was a great story about justifying your purchase of alcohol in bulk in order to make pickles. Based on the volume of alcohol required, the housewives were making many, many pickles.”

*snort*

Pickled liver, I assume ;-)

Got hit by a fair bit of shrapnel from that late March post, Jill...

Currently reading Jo Walton's Lent which features as its lead character Savonarola (see https://www.britannica.com/biography/Girolamo-Savonarola or this longer assessment from someone at the University of Oregon: https://blogs.uoregon.edu/rel414w15drreis/savonarola/) So far he makes for an interesting protagonist and some of the background is interesting, but there is a slow build to start. I'll keep you posted.

>98 jillmwo:
Interesting character.

>98 jillmwo: Savonarola was a figure who fascinated me during my teenage studies of The Reformation (as a precursor to certain strands within that movement). But I am very curious as to how such an extreme personality works as the protagonist to a story. I look forward to hearing more.

>94 jillmwo: Glad you're back! (There's no shame in wandering off for a bit. I did the same myself.)

>98 jillmwo: This is on my wishlist! I will be looking forward to your thoughts.

Just as I did with Ann Leckie’s book, The Final Tower earlier this year, I have had to minimize my comments about this one so as not to spoil the point of the book for others. There have been a number of reviews in the professional press that tried to describe the plot rather too generally or too obviously; I want to avoid doing so because you may go in thinking one thing and discover that Jo Walton’s newest book Lent isn’t that thing at all.

So what you should know is (a) that the protagonist is Girolamo Savonarola, a Dominican preacher in the City of Florence. Then, (b) you should know that the story begins in 1492 and thus, (c) It may help you to refresh your recollection of Renaissance politicians and artists and thought-influencers. Bone up on that history or be prepared to Google historical figures. The two links I provided to you in #98 are a good start. You do see Michelangelo and Botticelli and one or two immediately familiar others who should ring a bell for you.

What makes this book interesting is that it examines a particular concept of community governance in a particular place and time. I had no idea myself of the series of historical events that are referenced in that examination so it made the story rather fun even as I had to sort through who was who and where and when. Walton’s writing style is really fairly easy; no overly complex sentence structures. The initial set of events in the story are introduced rather slowly and it takes the first sixteen chapters (in a 48 chapter book) to hit that initial twist that launches the reader in to Walton’s thought experiment. But the reader like the imperfect protagonist, Savonarola -- a man with a vision of how the world should operate. He is faced with a shocking realization in chapter sixteen and he then spends the the subsequent 300 pages working out what to do and WHEN.

I found this to be an enjoyable thought experiment and I do recommend it. I finished it a few days ago and still find myself thinking about it, going “hmm, well maybe if he or another character had made a different choice THERE, then perhaps thus-and-such would have happened…” I really rather enjoyed this one, but primarily because I did see Lent as a thought experiment rather than as great literature. I won’t tell you more than that, but I think it’s worth a read.

I've been overly profligate and my pile of unread books is rather high at the moment. A bunch of Terry Pratchett, a newly published history of the Regency period in England, a history of the Country House Library (Yale University Press) and a miscellany of other worthy and unworthy titles.

Edited to fix the bad touchstone on Monday. Thanks, haydninvienna!

>103 jillmwo: Touchstone goes to A Lent Sourcebook by Peter Mazar, Jill.

>103 jillmwo: Thank you for that. It does sound the type of intellectual game that could be very interesting, however maybe rather slow to get started? I get the impression from your review that it assumes the reader is ignorant of the current theological and political controversies and takes its time spoon-feeding the relevant information.

However it definitely sounds like something I should take a look at. (Theology is rather on my mind at present!) Thank you again.

>105 -pilgrim-: Actually, the slow start is intended (I think) to allow the reader a chance to meet characters and see their relationships and interactions; there's not a great deal of background information on the historical figures. You'll wonder why the story seems to be so slow to start, but there's a good pay-off.

>104 haydninvienna: I have fixed the touchstone. Appreciated the heads-up!

>106 jillmwo: OK, you've got me! :)

>106 jillmwo: No worries.

>103 jillmwo: What is the name of the Regency history, Jill?

>109 Marissa_Doyle: The Regency Years: During Which Jane Austen Writes, Napoleon Fights, Byron Makes Love, and Britain Becomes Modern by Robert Morrison. His chapters are very long and I've not yet made it through the first one which has to do with crime and lawlessness. However, it seems quite readable and relatively well-suited to someone who isn't an expert in the period.

>103 jillmwo: This sounds great! Thank you for your thoughtful review. I really enjoyed Walton's trilogy based on Plato's Republic which I would guess is also classed as a thought experiment, so I will definitely be giving Lent a try.

>103 jillmwo: This sounds interesting. I've not felt drawn towards Walton's writing before, but here she is, in the periphery of my favourite parts of European history. On the list it goes. Thank you!

Arrest the Bishop? By Winifred Peck

Social commentary enters into this novel once you realize that the two young men (Bobs and Dick) are veterans of World War I and essentially two of those “shellshocked prophets” who wanted to shake up the Church upon their return from the War. The church needed a certain amount of revitalization and reform at that point in time -- prayer book revisions, the Toc H movement as an international charity movement, and general house cleaning. Peck’s book is about exactly that recognition. You have three high-ranking Church officials who are being blackmailed by a particularly awful member of the clergy. That blackmailer is murdered after being taken ill in the Bishop’s Palace. Add to that, one of the Bishop’s two daughters is in the midst of a marital scandal (divorce, pregnant due to an extramarital affair). The poor Bishop’s wife is really the only sane member of the household as she tries to manage the needs of her husband, her house guests, her seriously ill housekeeper, a recalcitrant daughter and a badly-trained butler. Meanwhile, there are plenty of snowbound souls under the Bishop’s roof who think the insufferable victim rather deserved the extra dose of morphia that ended his life.

Available in both Kindle and print formats.

Definitely a complex puzzle mystery, but I recommend reading Arrest the Bishop? for the glimpse into the social mindset of interwar Britain.

Another Period of Desultory Reading

The Country House Library - Mark Purcell. One of those great Yale University Press architecture titles. Coffee table size book with plenty of amazing photos of the libraries of the upper class -- from the era of the bibliomaniacs through the period following the Great War when so many of the libraries were dispersed and scattered as a means of paying off the death taxes. Like all such books, the print is on the smaller side so not a simple read at the end of the day, but a certain amount of wistfulness as one leafs through the book as a desire for a massive, well-ordered, book-shelf-lined house (however unrealistic a desire that may) arises. Not that those collectors of books were always keeping their shelves well-ordered.

The Regency Years - Still working on this one. Many names to be absorbed. Chaotic period of history and on some levels, it’s amazing that the British empire successfully grew following the period.

All Systems Red: Murderbot Diaries One - Murderbot is a novella-length piece that I read for a book group. The first time an alien jumped out, I too jumped and began to pay very close attention. Not a comfortable bit of science fiction to read. But I’ve got the second one close to hand and only one day left of a four-day weekend.

Murder at Archly Manor -- cheap and easy read. Really not awful in terms of the writing style or plotline, but rather a cookie-cutter sleuth of good (if penniless) family back operating in 1920’s British society. Why can’t we have a “Lady Mary” of Downton Abbey kind of sleuth? Someone with attitude based on her class who walks in, deals with the problem, and doesn’t worry overly about the cost of a new hat? Oh, wait a minute. That was Phryne Fisher.

The Warrielaw Jewel - Winifred Peck. Bride in 1909 Edinburgh Scotland dealing with highly dysfunctional family on the verge of bankruptcy. There is a murder but read primarily as a thoroughly enjoyable glimpse of social history.

Men At Arms - Terry Pratchett Not a great success, at least for me, as I felt no compulsion to finish it. Pratchett’s humor didn’t hold my attention very well.

The Shop Window Murders - Our victim, a deadringer for the real-life Mr. Selfridge of department store fame, gets murdered and left in the front of the holiday-decorated windows. There’s a store executive who is also found dead in the window. This is a 1930’s version of a police procedural.

Mightier than the Sword - K.J. Parker. Fairly humorous, sprightly told tale of an alternate world with similarities to the dying Roman Empire, the Irish monasteries, and sea pirates. I enjoyed this one and it had the virtue of being short.

Murderbot! I love Murderbot! It should had been published as one volume, though - they are all so short. Which in the era of 400-800 page tomes should be refreshing, but the four of them are really one book, not four.

Men at Arms I remember as a so and so Discworld book. There are better, much better (as long as you enjoy his writing style and sense of humour), but also considerably worse.

>115 Busifer: I had that same conversation with someone yesterday over lunch. She felt strongly that she wouldn't buy the series of novellas until the four were brought together in a single book. The economics of it being published in separate segments ($4.00 for the kindle edition of segment one and $9.00 for the hardcover) bothered her no end. I noted to her that the original intent was for Murderbot One to be just a short story, that Wells hadn't intended it to be more than a single novella, but she didn't buy the argument.

Edited to add that after finishing the second of the four Murderbot Diaries, I tend to agree with you that it ought to have been a novel (at least with hindsight)

And I do find that some of Pratchett's Discworld novels aren't a chore to read -- I enjoyed Guards, Guards immensely and Mort as well but I just couldn't get into Men at Arms.

Lots of extra reading material lying about, but physically, I am struggling with reading because it requires time and sitting still.

>116 jillmwo: I was going to say that not everyone enjoys his humor, so not to worry. Then I see you do like him at times, so I would suggest that you read the witches novel that is full of Macbeth references. Or not. :)

>116 jillmwo: On Murderbot: the first book COULD had been a standalone, but then she wrote book two, and two, three and four definitely could had been published as one book.
I do think they're great for when one is in a reading slump, though: fast, light, but well written and with an interesting protagonist, and short, so not a lot of sitting still required.

I agree on the Murderbot issue. I'm not sure if the decision to keep publishing them as novellas was the author's or the publisher's, but either way it makes for a pricy book addiction. I only paid for one. I got the first one free from TOR, and borrowed two as ebooks from OverDrive.

I've listened to a lot of the Pratchett books, and there have been a few DNFs in there as well. I take some responsibility for my loss of interest, but certainly not all of it.

>119 clamairy:

I'm going to start looking at page count for new purchases.

At ALA this year, I had the happy experience of sitting down in the wrong session but then serendipitously hearing a worthwhile presentation by search industry expert, Daniel M. Russell. The gentleman holds the title of Senior Research Scientist for Search Quality at Google and for roughly 13 years, he has actively engaged in educating users in appropriate use of various Google search tools. (One of his recent articles appeared in Scientific American.) His appearance at ALA was to generate interest in his forthcoming book, The Joy of Search (MIT Press, September 2019). I was subsequently lucky enough to receive a set of uncorrected page proofs of that title from Amy Harris of MIT Press.

Russell’s book should be viewed as a useful education resource for those about to embark on information literacy instruction. Online search is complex and while explaining GIGO (Garbage in, Garbage Out) seems a rudimentary place to start, it’s still a foundational concept. If you don’t train users about the thought required in framing a research question, best practices in crafting a search query or the value of documenting results derived from that query, they will not do well.

Despite the old warning that only librarians like to search, The Joy of Search does offer a lively means of helping users to develop the thinking skills needed in strategically thinking about available tools in solving an information problem. The book consists of 20 chapters, each of which offers examples of complex information-seeking tasks and laying out the various processes used in satisfying the inquiry. These are not just fact-finding examples. Each one required a variety of iterative searches and reliance on different Google tools. (Note: Google Street View and YouTube are used with surprising creativity and frequency.) Chapter headings suggest the variety and off-beat searches that pop into enquiring minds.

· Chapter 11: Can You Die from Apoplexy or Rose Catarrh?
· Chapter 14: What’s the Connection between “The Star Spangled Banner” and the General Who Burned the White House?
· Chapter 16: Is Abyssinia the Same as Eritrea?

Consider what the user might do in answering the question of Abyssinia and Eritrea. Google just those two terms as one might do on impulse and the top results are from Wikipedia. There is no Knowledge Graph card that answers the question definitively. Because user intent is unclear, Google offers alternative questions that the system may have previously answered; the system, focused on saving the user time, offers these questions as perhaps being what the user truly needs to know. (The available suggestions include “What was Eritrea before?” or “How old is Eritrea?” but no immediately digestible answer to Chapter 16’s question.) I was amused by one caution included in the book although it doesn’t appear until the closing pages: “…search engines don’t signal that they lack the knowledge to supply an answer, yet they don’t want to look bad so they give a Web-search set of results instead. That’s a great fallback position, but it’s also an important difference between an answer and a set of search results.”

Serious researchers already know that. An individual may need to formulate a new search strategy or even a series of strategies in order to satisfy the particular need.

Reinforcing that lesson is even more important when one considers the rapid expansion (just in terms of volume) of content. In his talk at ALA, Russell noted that during every minute of the day, more than 400 hours of video content gets uploaded to YouTube. There are over a billion viewings of learning-related videos daily. He noted as well the diversity found in content forms, referencing the photography found Google Street View. He touches briefly on searching inside Google Books (but interestingly does not refer the reader to Google Scholar, a burgeoning source of reliable content.)

Some of his recommendations are common sense. Scrutinize the content you find. Assess the source’s reliability, consistency and credibility.

Other recommendations are specifically targeted to the younger or inexperienced user, explaining the need to factor in changes in language across time. In pursuing the death rate of soldiers during the Civil War due to dysentery, he notes that a preferred term of the time was “flux” and suggests exploration of archival resources (Library of Congress, Hathi Trust) in order to pick up such shifts in terminology.

Another useful chapter walks the reader through Google Dataset Search. This is a beta phase tool which contains public data sets. Search for African American Population and you get a wealth of economic data from the St Louis Federal Reserve (see example). Searching for something as specific as “Time spent on reading the Bible in the U.S. from 2013 and 2017” yields reliable results from paywalled site, Statista. On the downside, while Russell notes in later chapters the need for searchers to be aware of coverage and limitations of the resources searched, the FAQ for Google Dataset Search is remarkably vague on both counts. What data has been uploaded there? Only by experimenting with queries would one be able to tell. Questions of scope and comprehensiveness have been a long-standing point of friction between Google representatives and the information profession.

To complete information tasks, it is important that users learn how to engage with the systems that surround them. Russell’s acknowledgements in the book express appreciation to anthropologist Mimi Ito for “reminding me that most people think of online research as a pedestrian skill that shouldn’t need any teaching…She pointed out that this book needs to be intrinsically interesting.” That’s an important insight and Russell clearly took it to heart. His book is both lively and informative. One hopes that some set of college syllabi will refer students to this text as an advisable addition to the learning experience.

>121 jillmwo: I enjoyed your comments on The Joy of Search.

>121 jillmwo: I, too, enjoyed your comments.

Information search on the internet, using engines like Google Search, is no walk in the park. I think how to formulate your search query is highly dependent on what tool you are using, though, which means that critical scrutiny of the source is paramount, while how to phrase your query is, while important, less so. In my opinion.

Google is huge at the moment but I'm willing to bet that as other megaliths has fallen so will they.

On a personal note I object to the individualised search results, as two persons can get very different results from the same query. This works to reinforce prejudice, which is not what we need. Or so I think.

>123 Busifer: On a personal note I object to the individualised search results, as two persons can get very different results from the same query. This works to reinforce prejudice, which is not what we need
I just wanted to pop up to wholeheartedly second that.

When I started at university we had a compulsory half-day training in "how to use the library", in which a good deal of time was spent on the importance of correctly formulating one's search terms.

Given the plethora of electronic information resources that have grown up since then, one would hope that the training given has expanded correspondingly. However I suspect that the opposite may have occurred: Internet searches are so much a part of most teenagers' lives that higher education establishments may assume they are already experienced in what is needed.

>124 -pilgrim-: I work in a university library and we try to give all 1st year students a session about online research and how to evaluate your findings. We discourage them from using google and instead direct them to the electronic resources and journals that we pay for, most of which can be found using one search tool. If we are lucky lecturers will invite us into a class early in the term to do a subject-specific introduction to information literacy and library research. We never get as long as half a day though! We're lucky to have an hour or two with the students. From speaking to colleagues at other institutions this is common across the British HE sector - since the advent of ubiquitous online searching, information literacy seems to have gone down, not up.

I'm of the opinion that once the students has reached higher education it is too late - that kind of education should start much earlier, at a more formative stage. But that's just me.

>126 Busifer: The problem with giving the instruction to younger people is that they are so young they still know everything and they will not listen to the older person giving instruction.

:-)

As Oscar Wilde reputedly said, “I am no longer young enough to know everything.”

>127 pgmcc: ;-) Then no education should work, should it? I think of it not as instruction but as establishing behavioural patterns at an early stage, so not as much a course but intrinsic to every other topic.

>129 pgmcc:
Pavlov had the right idea.

Curious, because it has bothered me for some time, how does one get around the Google search if one doesn't know any other way?

When I am looking for information on a subject, I would like to see all sides of it rather than the one I lean towards. If I were confident in my own opinion I wouldn't be looking for others.

I always scroll through results looking for solid articles from respected journals, and I ask for the information using several different types of requests, but if Google has made up its mind about what I want to hear, how do I get around that?

>128 Busifer: I agree that it would be good to begin inculcating preferred behaviors earlier. Unfortunately, few (American) secondary schools that I know of have access to the rather expensive tools that >125 Sakerfalcon: is describing.

>130 MrsLee: I fully agree with you.

>131 Jim53: Ah, yes. But critical analysis of the information, and a review of the sources, can be taught regardless of tools used.

>130 MrsLee: Wiser voices here will tell me if my strategy is effective, but I use privacy-enabled search engines like DuckDuckGo for casual searching (i.e. when not using academic libraries).

If they are serious about not logging my search terms, they can't build a profile on me on which to base their assumptions about what I want to read/hear.

It's a tightrope walk. Google uses search data on previous searches as a way to refine search result accuracy - "most people who made search A clicked on result 1, 3 and 5, so let's display those on top next time someone do search A" - and I can see how this is part of Google's success as a search engine. The addition of more personalised data is there to sell ads, mainly, and ads are a way for them to get revenue.
No revenue, no way to pay employees, no professionally maintained search engine. Which is why some search tools are so expensive (Google is expensive, too, if your organisation want to use them for fx your internal enterprise search).

>130 MrsLee: -there are other search engines. Google will find them for you! Bing is the main rival (but less good). As above DuckDuckGo is the largest? independent one. But I've found it less helpful.

Depending on how paranoid you're feeling, you can also try searching:
On a 'private'/incognito window
Try the same search from different internet browsers (each has a unique access so should appear as a 'new' user to the SE), however this effect will be diluted over repeated use as each one builds it's own history
Just delete your cookie/search history after every search

Ideally you'd do this systematically and see what difference it makes.... if you do I'm curious as to what you'd find.

(it is sometimes worth trying these sorts of tricks with airline/hotel bookings where they see the repeated access from the same ID, and start putting prices up to tempt you to buy now before it gets even more expensive. Sometimes a 'clean' search will reveal the original cheaper price.

Yes, incognito is very sound advice. Also, Google track you even more if you're logged in to a Google account as they the cross-reference what's in your mailbox (if you're using Gmail), your search history, your browser history (if you're a Chrome user), your calendar data (if you use Google Calendar), and so on.

It's easy to get paranoid.

>136 Busifer:
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not all after you.

>137 pgmcc: (Hides behind the screen, searching for cloaking devices...)

>138 Busifer: Run! Run like the wind!

>139 pgmcc: I think my reaction actually is more like "Geronimo", or maybe "Allons-y" ;-)

In all honesty it is one of those things that doesn't creep me out as much as it should. A side effect of having known of this for so long, and one little bit at a time, as they developed and evolved, and I have become numbed to it.

It's like when you move into a new flat and think "that ghastly wallpaper must go!" and then times passes and when you move out, years later, the wallpaper is still there. You have just become used to turn a mental blind eye to it.
The difference being that the wallpaper doesn't spy on you.
Or does it?

(Sorry, jillmwo, for kidnapping your thread. It was not my intent.)

>140 Busifer: Your example of the wallpaper in the flat would be perfectly suited to being in the book I am currently reading, The Third Policeman. In that context it would be explained as proof of the tenacity of the wallpaper and how talented it was in getting rid of the tenants it felt hostility from.

By the way, I messaged jillmwo about fifteen minutes ago letting her know that her thread was growing rapidly in her absence. Isn't that a coincidence? Great minds think alike.

>141 pgmcc: Very wallpaper-ish!

>141 pgmcc: "Hello! I'm calling from credit card services. There is nothing wrong with your current account, but based on some recent purchases, we wonder if you'd like a separate, private account that your spouse can't see..."

>143 Jim53: What makes you think my spouse can see my main account? She does not need to see it. She has no trouble spending its contents without knowing how much is in the account.

>141 pgmcc: but at least you wouldn’t turn into the wallpaper. Isn’t there something in there about a policeman turning into a bicycle?

Goodness me. I had no notion how lively things had gotten in here. I stepped away for a family wedding, a series of routine doctor appointments, and several heavy weeks of work deadlines and lo and behold, the conversation has gone from issues pertaining to Google search, going incognito, bad wallpaper, and ending with pgmcc somehow turning into a bicycle. I am surprised there are no water buffaloes or Roombas shooting off lasers.

First of all, let me say that Google search is a mixed bag in many respects but the author whose book I was reviewing does not suggest that Google can deliver all pre-packaged answers or is suitable for all kinds of research work. One of his chapters deals with a historical inquiry that involves archives in two separate states and professional consultations. But Google is useful for some things in some situations and his advice was that students need to be taught how to think about their research question before embarking on hours in front of the computer screen.

Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not overly concerned about how much data the tech giants hold on me. I've been a customer of Amazon for more than 25 years and the recommendations based on my purchases over that time frame still leave MUCH to be desired. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've clicked on one of Google's ads. I realize that Google is likely more interested in the masses of data it can mine than in improving the services that I use daily. There is one thing -- I have drawn the line at one of the talking home devices. Every time I would go to hit the buy button, some horror story would hit the news about how much was heard and stored. I don't want my refrigerator to talk to my car. I don't want sensors in everything around me. And I don't want Amazon to open my door to put my package inside or to serve as a surveillance service via my doorbell. But I'm grateful for the information service that Google provides. Sometimes I need to learn about the bestselling author that N.C. Wyeth did the cover art for (which I did last weekend).

Meanwhile MrsLee, you're well-advised to use the incognito mode in your browser. And sometimes DuckDuckGo can be a useful search tool. What's most important to remember (In my opinion) is that the best research usually requires visiting more than a single research tool. Casually satisfying a niggling question via Google is fine, but even writing a 4,000 word article on Temperance means that I check two for-fee resources for every single time I use Google.

Meanwhile, I'm glad to see >145 haydninvienna:, >143 Jim53:, >140 Busifer:, >135 reading_fox:, >125 Sakerfalcon:, and anyone else who I may have inadvertently missed mentioning visiting this thread.

Oh, and one thing I did get out of that review of the Google book is a place on the reviewer list for MIT Press which could be seriously dangerous.

Like you I'm not overly concerned. But part of that because I don't use those talking devices, either, so I don't have anyone building up structured knowledge on who I am and what I do and think.

If I am concerned that is for security reasons. Will my data be safe from digital predators? I guard most of my information, use unique passwords, 2-factor authentication when available.
But I do think it spooky when a hotel reservation of which the only data Gmail has is a date and place name in text form shows up on Google maps. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the services that Google provides.

And congrats on the place on the MIT Press reviewer list. I'm turning slightly green... ;-)
Enjoy!

>146 jillmwo:

The water buffalo are on strike for better mud.

>146 jillmwo:. Well done on appearing on the MIT reviewer list. Brilliant news. Do not let it steal any of your LT time.

>146 jillmwo:, >147 Busifer: It would seem to me to be an unhealthy combination that, when my bank uses voice recognition as it's primary means of user identification, to let other companies casually build up a databaae of speech samples. After all, it is not as if I never mention my banking affairs when at home...

It reminds me of the case a few years ago when a technical journalist had his bank accounts hacked, because the 4 digits from his credit card, which his banks considered highly secure personal identifier, were also the 4 digits that Amazon considered non-confidential, and routinely used to identify his order in acknowledgements sent via insecure notices (non https).

So that review up there in >121 jillmwo: made its way to the London School of Economics blog: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2019/08/11/book-review-the-joy-of...

>151 jillmwo: Impressive! But it was a damn good review in the first place.

>151 jillmwo: Well done. It is a great review.

>151 jillmwo: Congrats! I'm so happy for you!

>151 jillmwo: Another impressed Dragoneer here! Well done!

>151 jillmwo: Very well done, indeed. I hope it will inspire a discussion somewhere, just as it did here!

>151 jillmwo: Glad to hear you are appreciated as you should be!

>151 jillmwo: Congratulations! And deservedly so.

>151 jillmwo: Congrats!!

Because of a book group, I made a limited foray into Phoebe Atwood Taylor this month -- specifically the two earliest Asey Mayo mystery novels, dating back to the very early ‘30’s. Taylor is very good at what we generally call “local color” as associated with Cape Cod and equally good at concocting challenging puzzles. The problem with these two early examples of her work (The Cape Cod Mystery, and Death Lights A Candle) is that while the puzzles themselves present plenty of issues to be worked out, both spun out over two or three hundred pages. They are then resolved far too quickly in the final chapter of only 5 or 8 pages. It’s a bit disconcerting. But the narrator in both is female and rather sensible; I was disappointed that the series author apparently decided to focus more on Asey Mayo as her primary investigator.

My current (and rather heavy) reading is a book about the American Reconstruction -- the brief fifteen year period immediately following our Civil War by Columbia University professor, Eric Foner. He’s actually quite good in communicating the necessary foundational information. Additionally, there’s plenty of opportunity for stitching together bits and pieces from books with bits and pieces from Public Broadcasting DVDs and Googling some of the obscure proper names. Reconstruction: American’s Unfinished Revolution 1863-1877 is not densely academic in tone, but historical figures that might get oodles of coverage in a PBS documentary are may be allocated only the briefest references in Foner’s text. I watched the 2019 Henry Gates documentary over the course of the past week or so and I have one of the associated books written by Gates. (Gates book is more oriented or focused on negative images of slaves in 19th century mass media. I had thought it would be more focused on historical narrative but it’s not deeply detailed in the way that Foner’s book is. Foner’s book also weighs in at 758 pages.) Frankly, I’m enjoying the non-fiction tome more than I did the two lighter novels.

So to start off this bit, let me begin by introducing you to an enjoyable modern mystery set in the 1920’s, Relative Fortunes by the pseudonymous Marlowe Been. Very nicely and professionally done; although one could quibble with the resolution of the mystery itself, from a thematic standpoint, it works. A woman of means is faced with re-shaping her life -- her press which produced fine editions, her arrangement with her current lover, her financial situation governed by a half-brother. Thematically, the book deals with a variety of inequities that were the standard experience for women of the time. It’s a modern treatment of the issues raised by Dorothy Sayers in establishing the relationship between Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane. The writing isn’t as good as Sayers’, but a reminiscent flavor is certainly there.

Now the person who recommended this to me had forwarded an email that announced the availability of Relative Fortunes while referencing the author’s previous academic work, Beauty and the Book: Fine Editions and Cultural Distinction in America. Megan Bentan is an expert in the field of book history and that expertise gets some exposure in Relative Fortunes. The sleuth periodically is seen mingling with men who are active in the business of printing fine, deluxe editions. That aspect of including designer artwork as the cover art for the book (underneath the dust jacket of modern practice) is part of the marketing approach for the hardcover edition of Relative Fortunes. Beauty and the Book covers the competitiveness of the field in the US in the period between the two World Wars. It’s a bit dry so I’m not sure if I’ll ever read it (as opposed to make occasional dips into learning something about this particular period in the timeline of printing, etc.)

At the same time, I had been reading What We Talk About When We Talk About Books by Leah Price. Also a book historian, her focus is more on differentiating between the act of reading a book and the variety of ways in which we use books. (I can’t remember where I read it exactly but there’s a great story of a large, rare edition from Kelmscott Press being used as a classroom doorstop at either Oxford or Cambridge until somebody recognizes it for what it is and rescues it.) At any rate, Price’s book is good in recognizing that society as a whole has become rather lax in differentiating between the act of reading a text and the use of the book as a physical artifact (the occasional use of looking something up in a dictionary, the casual propping up of a tilted table, etc.) She notes that the pervasiveness of affordable books as well as more widespread literacy during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries shaped how we view the technology of the book in the 21st century. The emergence of new settings for reading (such as subway systems for our commutes to work) meant that it became socially acceptable to read newspapers and books in those public spaces. One good line was “Reading thrives on the absence of opportunity.” Price also has an academic work, How to do Things With Books in Victorian Britain, which I haven’t yet had a chance to delve into quite as much, but it seems to also include a few good lines as well.

So that’s what has intrigued me this past week or two. Related reading about reading and about books -- each interesting but decidedly pitched at various sorts on a spectrum of readers. (That, and I had to go get new eyeglasses as well.)

So I had gone a little haywire in buying books over on the Folio Society website. One of the titles which I purchased was a truly beautiful edition of Marc Girouard’s ground-breaking Life in the English Country House. (See the press release about the Folio publishing project here: https://blogs.foliosociety.com/press-release/press-release-life-in-the-english-c... The external design of the Folio Society edition turned out to be just as gorgeous as they promised. I mean, this is one of those editions where you just sit and pet the cover of the book, because of the tactile joy provided. The book is really quite tall (11-1/2 inches high and 8 inches wide.) That press release also shows a color photograph of the artwork on the cover which also extends to the slipcase. This is one gorgeous book. Inside the margins are wide and the text is set in a quite readable font style and size. Even the paper quality is amazing. (Excuse me while I wax ecstatically over the physical aspects of the book. It’s not quite my usual style, although I have always appreciated gorgeous books; this one is quite striking both inside and out.)

Now I own the initial 1978 edition of Girouard’s book, originally published by Yale University Press which is KNOWN for its art and architecture titles. I had purchased mine as a used book, so it’s a bit beat up around the edges. But it’s still in fairly good shape. The binding and spine reflect use but are not broken. and the pages are still tight. It’s a coated paper stock, but nothing deeply luxurious. The print isn’t quite as large as the Folio edition nor is it quite as sharp. Frankly, there is no great impulse to sit and pet the book. But this was published back in the late ‘70’s and the production technology wasn’t what it is today. At the point of the original publication, the dust jacket shows a price of $19.95 which seems dirt cheap compared with the $40 or $45 dollar price one pays now for a similar title from Yale University Press.

However, the biggest difference between the two books (aside from the price paid for each in 2019) is something that I hadn’t realized until this week. The older edition has 31 color plates and more than 500 black and white illustrations. Not counting the table of contents or index, almost every other one of the 345 pages has a visual element to it. They very nearly overwhelm the text. The Folio edition -- while handsome -- doesn’t have anywhere near the same number of photographs and/or floor plans incorporated into the layout of the book. (Again, if you read that press release, you will note that the source for many of the photos in the Folio edition came from the magazine, Country Life. There are so many sources listed for the photos in Yale’s edition that I can’t begin to note the most important libraries or private collections used.) You don’t realize until you see the two books side by side that the two editions are really intended for two separate audiences. Yale’s original edition (while priced to sell to a mainstream audience) was primarily aimed at the scholar or practitioner. The Folio edition is primarily sought by the collector.

So why does this matter? I am reluctant to give up either of the two volumes. I had expected to “re-circulate” my used copy into the mainstream via my local Friends of the Library group and retain the Folio edition. But they AREN’T the SAME. The Yale one has SO many more historic photographs. On the other hand, the Folio one is just too gorgeous and really looks handsome on the shelf. It’s almost a prideful acquisition, if you know what I mean.

As a further follow-up, hard on the heels of having received and petted the Folio edition, I picked up one of hfglen’s recommendations, The Disinherited which is a delightfully salacious history of a 19th century aristocrat and his offspring -- all behaving badly. Lionel Sackville-West had a mistress (and one for whom he must have had some degree of real affection) with whom he had five children. However he never married his mistress, during the course of their relationship as he might have done. When questions about the birth of those five children arose however, he just kind of fudged the truth about their legitimacy or lack thereof. As his mistress died when several of the children were quite young, it probably just didn’t seem particularly important to him. However, at some point, quite unexpectedly, Lionel succeeded to an important aristocratic title which carried with it possession of the great historic house of Knole and all of its surrounding estate. Now, it did become important to the children whether or not they were declared to be his legitimate heirs. And from there (as you might imagine), the story just descends into all kinds of nineteenth century scandal and legal hoo-rah. I honestly believe that it was because I had just finished re-reading the Girouard title, that The Disinherited that forced on me a much deeper sense of just how rigidly class distinctions were upheld in late Victorian and early-Edwardian England. And just how draining it might have been to support the maintenance of one of those great estates. Certainly the male would-be-heir as well as two of his sisters suffered from the lack of any kind of financial security in their lives, but the one daughter who married advantageously and who was able to make Knole her home was equally stressed about the upkeep of the place. (Although I must say that denying her sister a separate sitting room when the house had something more than 300 rooms available did strike me as being -- ahem -- a bit petty.)

So I owe hfglen a thank-you for the recommendation of the historical family saga. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, even as I gasped at the number of people behaving badly in that family. If, as Hugh suggests, Tolkien based Lobelia Sackville-Baggins on the real Sackville family, then Bilbo really should have been counting the spoons as she left Bag End. What a tale of bad behavior on the part of those who really lived in luxury and those who went to court over their status!

>162 jillmwo: *bows* Glad to be of service! They were an awful bunch, weren't they? And did Frodo not count the spoons when he got back to the Shire and threw the Sackville-Bagginses out of Bag End?

Thwack!*

(Since I'm not a big fan of firearms, I prefer now to be hit by book arrows...though I think I took a book crossbow bolt on The Disinherited. Will be interested to see what further light it sheds on Vita Sackville-West et al.

>164 Marissa_Doyle:

I don't think of the bullets being fired, but tossed. Kinda like bean bags!

>165 suitable1: But arrows are so poetic. Picture a fat little cupid flitting about, targeting people with the perfect book arrow shot from his small golden bow strung with a hair from Athena's head...

>166 Marissa_Doyle:

Are you calling pgmcc fat?

>167 suitable1: Goodness, no. Not without sneakily obtained photographic evidence, anyway.

I can hear you!

>166 Marissa_Doyle: Perfect, more so since Athena was the goddess of wisdom. Book arrows FTW!

>166 Marissa_Doyle: That's exactly how I picture myself. Flitting about, very cherub-like. (Research question: Do they have grey-haired cherubs?)

>171 jillmwo: Can't you call it "platinum blonde"?

Grey hair dye was very hip thus summer. The range of names is endless.

>171 jillmwo: More importantly, do you have wings?

I picture jillmwo as "The Silver Streak", her arrows striking like a bolt of lightening and totally obliterating her target on impact.

>175 pgmcc: Ooooh, what a great image! I am charmed. Here comes the Silver Streak. *Zinging arrow passes*

>174 Marissa_Doyle: I do.

>172 hfglen: No way could I claim platinum blonde. My hair was too dark for that. But my two elder sisters were able to persuade people they were blonde. Genetics are really quite unfair, in some respects.

>176 jillmwo: Then the newly-defined shade "platinum brunette"

ETA: And think how many blonde jokes you can duck out of!

Uh oh. I'm late to catch up on this thread, but I'm tried very hard to dodge two bullets here. Both What We Talk About When We Talk About Books and the Disinherited are screaming for my attention.

Dress in the Age of Jane Austen: Regency Fashion
Hilary Davidson
Yale Univ Press 2019
ISBN: 9780300218725

Jane Austen are the two words that will quickly fix my attention on a book title. If the book is from a university press and features 180 illustrations, it makes it on to my Amazon wish list. I had high hopes of Dress in the Age of Jane Austen when I ordered it, but it surpassed my expectations. The text is readily accessible to a non-expert and the organizational structure makes it clear that the book is not solely about what was worn by aristocrats of the ton, but the clothing that was worn by the middle class. The author, Hillary Davidson, made headlines in the media back in 2015 with regard to her study and recreation /reconstruction of a pelisse believed to have belonged to the author of Pride and Prejudice.

Davidson is a dress and textile historian who has taught and lectured at such diverse institutions as the University of Southhampton, the University of Cambridge, and New York University London among others.

The volume begins by looking at domestic garb. Subsequent chapters then broaden out bit by bit until you reach a discussion of the international fashion scene. There are copious illustrations as captured by artists of the time in paintings, but the captions draw attention to fashion details apart from while still including the usual identifying labels of artist name, title and date. It’s Yale University Press so it’s just outstanding quality reproduction of the artwork. (No it’s not as gorgeous as the Folio Society publication about English country houses, but it’s still pretty good.)

And the cover art? It shows the famous painting that Jane Austen identified as being exactly her impression of what Jane looked like after finally marrying Mr. Bingley. It is charming. Without a doubt, Five Stars.

The Mermaid’s Sister

This young adult novel is also one that I found charming. First of all, as the name of the book itself suggests, there is a mermaid. Meren is beautiful, utterly captivating to nearly all men, and, on some levels, somewhat alien to her sister Clara. The two young women live with their Aunt, an older woman held captive under a curse but possessed of wisdom and a knowledge of magic. There are friends -- O’Neill and the traveling peddler, Scarp, and his two horses, Job and January. There is a raven named Pilsner and a silly wyvern named Osbert. While this is ostensibly Pennsylvania in the 1870s, the astute reader will quickly recall that wyverns are not usually found in that part of the United States. Clara is faced with the need and the responsibility to return her sister Meren to the safety of sea water. She begins the journey but as one might expect, complications arise.

I did not expect to enjoy this as much as I did. It was exactly the kind of fairy tale I needed at the end of a complex autumn, full of work and family responsibilities with sessions of annoying physical therapy mixed in for good measure.

One of the things that kept me busy in recent weeks had to do with freelance work, this time around researching and writing about the campaign to pass the Nineteenth Amendment. 2020 will be the centennial of its ratification. So three books I have been reading/studying were

Founding Sisters and the Nineteenth Amendment
Suffragists in Washington: The 1913 Parade and the Fight for the Vote
Mr President, How Long Must We Wait: Alice Paul, Woodrow Wilson and the Fight for the Right to Vote

Now all three are good books, laying out a series of events that form a fascinating historical narrative. I learned a couple of really cool bits during the process

You’ve heard of Frank Leslie’s Weekly, the pictorial newspaper that documented the bulk of the 19th century? Well, it turns out that Mrs. Frank Leslie inherited his publication on his death and proceeded to build the company into an amazing stable of 13 publications. She was a lifelong supporter of votes for women and at her death, left the National American Woman’s Suffrage Association (NAWSA, the precursor to the modern League of Women Voters) more than a million dollars in her will to finance the campaign for the Nineteenth Amendment.

Did you know there were a slew of European countries that gave women the right to vote before women got it in the United States. Denmark was one. For that matter, the Canadians gave the right to vote to women before we did.

Alice Paul was a Quaker activist who was a remarkably astute operative in the drive to win women the right to vote, but two other women -- Anna Howard Shaw and Carrie Chapman Catt -- were equally critical to the movement. Anna Howard Shaw was both a physician as well as a Methodist minister and Carrie Chapman Catt was a key leader in NAWSA. Catt was able to maintain relations with Woodrow Wilson when Alice Paul’s radical activities threatened to undermine the Administration during a time of war.

None of those three (non-fiction) titles are particularly academic in tone or laden down with footnotes. They’re intended for the general audience. There was a good deal of drama in the history, so they keep you engaged. All that said, I think I enjoyed the Alice Paul title the most.

Multiple mysteries of varying worth.

Light Thickens - Ngaio Marsh Main selling point is the discussion of how the Scottish play would be interpreted and subsequently staged for an audience. Quite interesting, back-stage discussions. There is a murder mystery, but I’m afraid I was more absorbed by the dramatic aspects of Shakespeare. Splendid. Four stars

The Crooked Hinge - John Dickson Carr Shades of Downton Abbey. An unpleasant heir to the title -- one ostensibly lost during the sinking of the Titanic -- suddenly resurfaces with an interest in the displacement of the current and quite respectable holder of the title. But a murder further muddles the situation. One of Otto Penzler’s 100 Greatest American Mysteries. Challenging puzzle but not a favorite. Three stars

The Mitford Murders - Jessica Fellowes Really not awful, but not particularly to my taste. Rather annoying. (3 main characters - one upstairs, one downstairs, and a third who is an outsider). It does take as its plot point the actual historical event of the murder of Florence Nightingale Shore. Part of a series, each title in the series will feature one of the Mitford sisters as a central character. Three stars

The Winter Station - Jodi Shields. You’re medical staff, a foreigner surrounded by those who distrust you and whose approach towards medicine is entirely different (not to say lacking in scientific basis), and the local population are hiding a significant outbreak of the bubonic plague.

It’s also winter (as the title might suggest). Serious winter with ice and snow as far as the eye can see. The only way out of town is on a very crowded and rather clunky raiilway. Imagine the social and political ramifications. Not a cheerful read, but an interesting historical novel about a very real series of events. Three stars. (Because actually it wasn’t a very good mystery, despite being marketed that way.

The Bellamy Trial - Frances Noyes Hart. Think the Great Gatsby. Think Murder. Think Perry Mason and Hamilton Berger. This is another one of Otto Penzler’s 100 Greatest Mysteries and I found it engaging. There’s a murder that has happened in an upper-class setting. You’re sitting in the gallery with one hard-boiled experienced reporter and a sweet young thing out on her first assignment; both are covering the trial. Over the course of a week, you hear testimony of spouses, servants, etc. and their evidence is examined and cross-examined. At the end of the trial, you must determine the defendant’s guilt or innocence. Definitely a product of its time, the novel still holds up today. Five stars!

Edited to correct a misspelled title per >189 haydninvienna: below

>179 jillmwo: My copy of this just arrived. I'm saving it for the day after Christmas when I can wallow in it. ;)

I believe yesterday was Jane Austen’s birthday.

>179 jillmwo: So nice to see you posting again. I always love the challenge of ducking your bullets. ;) Hope life is well with you.

>179 jillmwo: Ooh, I can order this for work and then borrow it!

With regard to Dress in the Age of Jane Austen, it's entirely worth hoarding the hours needed to properly wallow in it. So >186 Sakerfalcon: and >183 Marissa_Doyle:, I rely on you to place the orders! Yale University Press worked hard on this one.

>184 pgmcc: The expectation of you is that you'll take the jaunt down to Westminster Abbey to visit her before completion of Brexit makes the trip more of a nuisance and utterly tiresome.

>185 MrsLee: I'm about to sink myself into a stretch of reading Trollope, as soon as I get through this work week and can take my two full weeks off for the holiday.

>187 jillmwo:
I hope to visit London in January and am putting that on the list. I might even get to meet Sakerfalcon. Dates to follow.

By the way, I loved Barchester Towers.

>182 jillmwo: Um, Jill, should The Winter Soldier be The Winter Station? I ask because your touchstone went somewhere I didn’t expect.

>49 jillmwo: Just re-reading this thread and noted the reference to Vance Packard. I’ve not read The Hidden Persuaders, but I was reminded that a while back I bought, and started to read, Phishing for Phools by George Akerlof. I had to stop reading and give the book away—it got too depressing.

>179 jillmwo: And today that book pops up on my recommendations from Amazon. Just how deep does your influence go, Jill? Trollope sounds delightful, but I would definitely need two weeks off, and possibly away from home to wallow in him at this stage. I'm much too distracted lately for the joys of Trollope.

>191 MrsLee: So my plan for world domination continues!! I think everyone's lives (political, social, economic and love lives) would be happier and perhaps more stable if we focused on the wisdom of Jane Austen. Focusing on appropriate 18th century attire as well would likely not go amiss.

>190 haydninvienna: As I understand from my colleagues, given what you've said here, you might also want to avoid Surveillance Capitalism. Creepy, and worrisome. (And thanks for the tip about the mis-stated title on Winter Station)

>188 pgmcc: As long as we're improving the world, I rather suspect that things would be better if we focused on the wisdom of Anthony Trollope alongside of Jane. I found both The Warden and The Last Chronicle of Barset to be very memorable reads.

Jill, there's another one sitting in my post-holiday TBR pile that I'm looking forward to: Gentlemen of Uncertain Fortune: How Younger Sons Made Their Way in Jane Austen's England

>193 Marissa_Doyle: Yes, Amazon's been pushing that one at me on a periodic basis. I think it made into my "cart" but I've been resisting adding one more book to the piles that are crawling up the baseboards in my house. Let us all know whether it's really good?

>187 jillmwo: I have been doing some research for my trip to London. Apparently she is not buried in Westminster Abbey. She is buried in Winchester Cathedral in Hampshire. The is a tablet to her memory in Westminster Abbey. :-(

As it happens I visited Winchester Cathedral about 22 years ago. I was not aware she was buried there so I did not look out for her burial site.

>195 pgmcc: Plus you were probably distracted by your baby leaving town.