Easton Press Item 2782 Victor Hugo's THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME 2 volume DLE
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1saintmelville
Easton Press has listed:
https://www.eastonpress.com/prod/35A/2782/Victor-Hugo-s-THE-HUNCHBACK-OF-NOTRE-D...
(2) other discussion threads found here:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/220916
And,
https://www.librarything.com/topic/202157
https://www.eastonpress.com/prod/35A/2782/Victor-Hugo-s-THE-HUNCHBACK-OF-NOTRE-D...
(2) other discussion threads found here:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/220916
And,
https://www.librarything.com/topic/202157
2Wootle
Their own literature stated 400 limitation and 800 limitation at the initial release, but the book itself shows 800 limitation. The detail page shows 800 at this time as well. They certainly waited a long while to release the second half. Hope springs anew for some other worthy early DLE to show their faces once again.
4thisGuy33
>2 Wootle: so ... just to be clear? This was released years ago with an 800 limitation ... but the run was only the first 400? And this release is the second half of that 800 limitation?
And ... anyone know where on LT i can find an 'original' thread for this title ... where folks maybe talk about their thoughts on this EP release? I can't seem to find much info (my search game is off today). lol
And ... anyone know where on LT i can find an 'original' thread for this title ... where folks maybe talk about their thoughts on this EP release? I can't seem to find much info (my search game is off today). lol
5Wootle
>4 thisGuy33: That seems to be correct. It wasn't very clear at release which it actually was as they stated both numbers in different ads.
No original thread on this one, just the two short ones that have been bumped. When HugoDumas makes it by, he'll be able to tell you everything you ever wanted to know about it.
No original thread on this one, just the two short ones that have been bumped. When HugoDumas makes it by, he'll be able to tell you everything you ever wanted to know about it.
6thisGuy33
>5 Wootle: thanks for that. Yeah ... I was a bit disappointed in my search game today ... I couldn't believe their hadn't been a lengthy past post/thread on this title ... being such a popular title and with such amazing artist illustrations.
Looking forward to HugoDumas to weigh in!!!
Looking forward to HugoDumas to weigh in!!!
7treereader
>6 thisGuy33:
That might be because this DLE was one of the earlier ones released. Our reactions would've ranged from sticker shock to unorganized mixed-title discussions of these new Deluxe Limited Editions.
That might be because this DLE was one of the earlier ones released. Our reactions would've ranged from sticker shock to unorganized mixed-title discussions of these new Deluxe Limited Editions.
8thisGuy33
>7 treereader: yeah I could imagine the sticker shock years ago. I think their prices now are quite unjustified for most titles. They slap on the 'DLE' label and almost always lazily throw a 4 payments of $89 or 5 payments of $79.
I just think the earlier titles were worth the higher asking prices ... Dickens Copperfield ... Three Musketeers ... most Arthur Rackahm illustrated titles ... the twain clamshells. But some of these more recent ones ... may be more worth 4 of $49ish.
Between $200 and $350 seems more in line with what I'm seeing in the current production quality. The older titles I think $275 - $450 were in line.
Don't know if this makes sense to anyone else. And this is just my personal feeling on the past vs present prices of EP's DLE's. I myself have been finding that i'm buying more FS titles then EP over the last year or so ... the quality and value just seems more in line with what I'm looking for today.
I do still love my EP DLE's with beautiful leather covers ... but the older leather was better in my imo.
Anyway ... back on topic ... I really would love to hear thoughts from those who have a copy of this Hunchback two volume DLE. I assume it is very similar to Three Musketeers DLE in regards to leather cover treatment ... number and quality of illustrations ... and size/weight (although ... my Musketeers is heavier then any two vol set I have from EP ... Thicker paper indeed ... heavier paper maybe?).
I just think the earlier titles were worth the higher asking prices ... Dickens Copperfield ... Three Musketeers ... most Arthur Rackahm illustrated titles ... the twain clamshells. But some of these more recent ones ... may be more worth 4 of $49ish.
Between $200 and $350 seems more in line with what I'm seeing in the current production quality. The older titles I think $275 - $450 were in line.
Don't know if this makes sense to anyone else. And this is just my personal feeling on the past vs present prices of EP's DLE's. I myself have been finding that i'm buying more FS titles then EP over the last year or so ... the quality and value just seems more in line with what I'm looking for today.
I do still love my EP DLE's with beautiful leather covers ... but the older leather was better in my imo.
Anyway ... back on topic ... I really would love to hear thoughts from those who have a copy of this Hunchback two volume DLE. I assume it is very similar to Three Musketeers DLE in regards to leather cover treatment ... number and quality of illustrations ... and size/weight (although ... my Musketeers is heavier then any two vol set I have from EP ... Thicker paper indeed ... heavier paper maybe?).
9fancythings
>1 saintmelville: Thank you for letting us know I want it in my library. Love the story. Just ordered it.
10HugoDumas
What a surprise. I lucked out of course and got this through the Danbury Mint in UK under retail price. I thought at the time that it was OOP. Do not tell the person who just paid $650 for a sealed copy 4 days ago on eBay! See my 22 photos and previous commentary on this literary and artistic masterpiece. Very heavy set at nearly 9 pounds.
On a per volume basis this is the most expensive DLE from the 1888/89 Routledge set: EP published four of the seven novels in this set: Les Miserables, Count of Monte Cristo, Toilers of the Sea, Hunchback of Notre Dame. it’s such an incredibly beautiful DLE that I would not hesitate to buy this today at $400.
It is very strange though that despite its sell-out in 5 months in 2013, that it took EP another seven years to print the remaining 400. How many people were burned buying the DLE at inflated prices on eBay because they thought it was OOP?
On a per volume basis this is the most expensive DLE from the 1888/89 Routledge set: EP published four of the seven novels in this set: Les Miserables, Count of Monte Cristo, Toilers of the Sea, Hunchback of Notre Dame. it’s such an incredibly beautiful DLE that I would not hesitate to buy this today at $400.
It is very strange though that despite its sell-out in 5 months in 2013, that it took EP another seven years to print the remaining 400. How many people were burned buying the DLE at inflated prices on eBay because they thought it was OOP?
11fancythings
>10 HugoDumas: You posted very nice pictures of it. It is a very large and beautiful book with classic illustrations. Can't wait to get it. EP should continue making Routledge sets like this one. Thanks for sharing
12hamletscamaro
>10 HugoDumas: who does the translation on this edition? How does this translation stack up against more modern translations? I may be tempted to grab this while it is avilable again, but don't want to waste time on a translation that may not be as engaging.
Thanks
Thanks
13HugoDumas
>12 hamletscamaro: all 7 Routledge novels (21 volume set) were translated by Joseph L. Blamire copyrighted 1887. I suspect he supervised a French-English translation team at Routledge. Too large a task for one individual.
14thisGuy33
>13 HugoDumas: any opinion on how good the translation is?
15HugoDumas
>14 thisGuy33: since I have not read the work in French, I have no way of understanding if it is a good translation.
16thisGuy33
>15 HugoDumas: ha! yeah ... that would definitely be ideal in assessing the quality of the translation. However ... if you did read the books ... did you notice they were good/easy reads. Sometimes translations are either boring or hard to read ... which is often a sign of a poor translation.
I had this happen recently with EP's Jules Verne Journey to the Center of the Earth DLE. To me there were many parts that seemed glossed over and quite bland and boring. Some events that should have been worthy of pages of description ... were two paragraphs.
I posted some questions here on LT in regards to my thoughts on this experience. Wondering how it is such a popular title could be so bland in many parts ... and some replied it is most likely due to translation issues. This answer kind of made sense. Now I am looking forward to reading a different version to see it that indeed was the case.
So ... I'm wondering if this version of Hunchback is a fun/enjoyable read?
I had this happen recently with EP's Jules Verne Journey to the Center of the Earth DLE. To me there were many parts that seemed glossed over and quite bland and boring. Some events that should have been worthy of pages of description ... were two paragraphs.
I posted some questions here on LT in regards to my thoughts on this experience. Wondering how it is such a popular title could be so bland in many parts ... and some replied it is most likely due to translation issues. This answer kind of made sense. Now I am looking forward to reading a different version to see it that indeed was the case.
So ... I'm wondering if this version of Hunchback is a fun/enjoyable read?
17jroger1
>16 thisGuy33:
Wikipedia quotes an expert as saying that no great foreign author has been more mistreated by English translators than Jules Verne. Substantial passages were omitted or rewritten, often as a concession to “Victorian sensibilities.” Fortunately, in the last 20 years or so most of them have been re-translated in full.
I had the same experience as you when reading the Journey DLE. Some passages cried out for elaboration and the ending was too abrupt. I did not know, and still don’t, whether these deficiencies are the fault of Verne himself or his translator Malleson. Oxford World Classics has recently published an unabridged translation by Butcher that has received good reviews, but I haven’t read it.
Regrettably, I have not yet experience Hunchback.
Wikipedia quotes an expert as saying that no great foreign author has been more mistreated by English translators than Jules Verne. Substantial passages were omitted or rewritten, often as a concession to “Victorian sensibilities.” Fortunately, in the last 20 years or so most of them have been re-translated in full.
I had the same experience as you when reading the Journey DLE. Some passages cried out for elaboration and the ending was too abrupt. I did not know, and still don’t, whether these deficiencies are the fault of Verne himself or his translator Malleson. Oxford World Classics has recently published an unabridged translation by Butcher that has received good reviews, but I haven’t read it.
Regrettably, I have not yet experience Hunchback.
18thisGuy33
>17 jroger1: thank you for your thoughts. I thought I was completely alone here with my assessment of EP's Journey DLE. There were many spots throughout that were just treated in a flippant manner ... but none more blatantly then the ending (as you mention). I could not believe ... how quickly the ending is pushed thru.
Despite many pockets where things felt rushed or just bland in descriptions ... most of the book offsets this with grand descriptive visuals ... especially of the environments (which I hear is a very Verne thing).
However ... when the adventure finally reaches the destination in which it set out for ... there were only a few pages describing the beauty and awe of the environment and it's mysterious creatures. Only to then quickly be sucked back into a 'black hole' rushing them to the surface (all of which takes a few pages? A small single chapter?
Was very strange to me. I assumed there was more to that which the translator felt was unneeded?
Despite many pockets where things felt rushed or just bland in descriptions ... most of the book offsets this with grand descriptive visuals ... especially of the environments (which I hear is a very Verne thing).
However ... when the adventure finally reaches the destination in which it set out for ... there were only a few pages describing the beauty and awe of the environment and it's mysterious creatures. Only to then quickly be sucked back into a 'black hole' rushing them to the surface (all of which takes a few pages? A small single chapter?
Was very strange to me. I assumed there was more to that which the translator felt was unneeded?
19HugoDumas
>16 thisGuy33: I would not be such a fan of the Victorian Routledge collection of the works of Dumas, Hugo and Sue if they were not beautiful reads embellished with wonderful profuse illustrations.
My only experience with corrupted translations was my side-by-side comparison of the Chapman and Hall (1845j and the modern Penguin Classics translation of Eugene Sue’s Mysteries of Paris. In this case to my horror it was not an issue of quality of translation....it was sickening Victorian censorship. After this experience I sold my 1845 antique and kept the Penguin paperback.
My only experience with corrupted translations was my side-by-side comparison of the Chapman and Hall (1845j and the modern Penguin Classics translation of Eugene Sue’s Mysteries of Paris. In this case to my horror it was not an issue of quality of translation....it was sickening Victorian censorship. After this experience I sold my 1845 antique and kept the Penguin paperback.
20thisGuy33
And another reason I'm curious about the EP Hunchback DLE translations ... is because it looks like a beautiful edition of the book (absolutely love the illustrations that I have seen) ...
... but I read many reviews of folks who (like most) know the story from reading abridged versions of the book as a child ... or watching the Disney renditions of the store which i hear take many character liberties. I hear the original book focused much on the architecture and less on character.
Many reviewers of the unabridged versions say ... it is quite long winded ... and the characters play a lesser role then they remember from their childhood reading experience.
Not that this is a reason not to read it ... as everyone has their own tastes and tolerances to "long winded' dribble.
But I've learned from years of purchasing ... spending $400 on a title that I only read once (aka EP Journey to the Center of the Earth DLE) ... is something that makes me sad-ish ... lol
Hopefully we'll hear more thoughts from those who have read this DLE version!!!
... but I read many reviews of folks who (like most) know the story from reading abridged versions of the book as a child ... or watching the Disney renditions of the store which i hear take many character liberties. I hear the original book focused much on the architecture and less on character.
Many reviewers of the unabridged versions say ... it is quite long winded ... and the characters play a lesser role then they remember from their childhood reading experience.
Not that this is a reason not to read it ... as everyone has their own tastes and tolerances to "long winded' dribble.
But I've learned from years of purchasing ... spending $400 on a title that I only read once (aka EP Journey to the Center of the Earth DLE) ... is something that makes me sad-ish ... lol
Hopefully we'll hear more thoughts from those who have read this DLE version!!!
21thisGuy33
>19 HugoDumas: Ha! There's something to be said about Penguin paperbacks.
22HugoDumas
>20 thisGuy33: In Hugo’s Toilers of the Sea (the first time in my glorious Routledge Deluxe Limited Edition with original illustrations by Victor Hugo and fine French artists at that time), I thought I would share from his Preface, in which he ties this work together with Notre Dame de Paris and Les Miserables into his grand Triptych.
In the forward, Hugo calls this set his Triple Ananke.
In ancient Greek religion, Ananke (/əˈnæŋki/; Greek: Ἀνάγκη, from the common noun ἀνάγκη, "force, constraint, necessity"), is a personification of inevitability, compulsion and necessity.
Religion, Society, and Nature are the three struggles of man, thus these three struggles are his three needs. He has need of faith, hence the temple; he must create, hence the city; he must live, hence the plough and the ship.
These three solutions comprise three conflicts. The mysterious difficulty of life results from all three. Man strives with obstacles to overcome in various forms (superstition, prejudice, the elements) and bears the weight of three anankes or fatalities (dogma, laws, things) as he overcomes these obstacles.
Religion - need of Faith - thus the temple; obstacle is superstition; ananke of dogma; Novel - Notre Dame de Paris (Hunchback of Notre Dame)
Society - the need to create a city; obstacle is prejudice; ananke of laws; Novel - Les Miserables
Nature - he must live thus the plough and the ship; obstacle is the elements; ananke of things; Novel - Toilers of the Sea
Hugo states, “with these three fatalities which environ man mingles that inward fatality, the supreme ananke, the human heart.” (1866)
I have not yet figured out where “Man Who Laughs” fits, probably society and man’s inhumanity to humanity.
I have stated this before, but you must be patient and appreciate Hugo’s numerous diversions, in this case preserving Gothic architecture. That is simply his style. So Hugo always has a story (the novel) and philosophical, political, religious, sociological issues he wants to share with you. Enjoy them both!
In the forward, Hugo calls this set his Triple Ananke.
In ancient Greek religion, Ananke (/əˈnæŋki/; Greek: Ἀνάγκη, from the common noun ἀνάγκη, "force, constraint, necessity"), is a personification of inevitability, compulsion and necessity.
Religion, Society, and Nature are the three struggles of man, thus these three struggles are his three needs. He has need of faith, hence the temple; he must create, hence the city; he must live, hence the plough and the ship.
These three solutions comprise three conflicts. The mysterious difficulty of life results from all three. Man strives with obstacles to overcome in various forms (superstition, prejudice, the elements) and bears the weight of three anankes or fatalities (dogma, laws, things) as he overcomes these obstacles.
Religion - need of Faith - thus the temple; obstacle is superstition; ananke of dogma; Novel - Notre Dame de Paris (Hunchback of Notre Dame)
Society - the need to create a city; obstacle is prejudice; ananke of laws; Novel - Les Miserables
Nature - he must live thus the plough and the ship; obstacle is the elements; ananke of things; Novel - Toilers of the Sea
Hugo states, “with these three fatalities which environ man mingles that inward fatality, the supreme ananke, the human heart.” (1866)
I have not yet figured out where “Man Who Laughs” fits, probably society and man’s inhumanity to humanity.
I have stated this before, but you must be patient and appreciate Hugo’s numerous diversions, in this case preserving Gothic architecture. That is simply his style. So Hugo always has a story (the novel) and philosophical, political, religious, sociological issues he wants to share with you. Enjoy them both!
23thisGuy33
>22 HugoDumas: thanks for that ... makes me excited to read my first Hugo title ... FS Limited Edition Toilers of the Sea (it is 3d on my current to read list ... but I might have just bumped it up to 'next').
24HugoDumas
>23 thisGuy33: you are blessed to have that glorious FS edition. I wanted that but decided to stay with the EP DLE supplemented by their Famous Edition, which has two of the missing chapters (Channel Islands Archepelago, and the essay on the Sea and the Wind). FS has the Channel Islands introduction.
25thisGuy33
>24 HugoDumas: yeah I do indeed feel fortunate to have a copy of the FS version of Toilers. I was eyeballing it for a year or more ... contemplating getting the EP DLE version ... which I actually also think is amazing looking.
But in the end ... after all my research ... I really love the FS version. I also will probably pick up the EP famous edition in order to have the extra 'essay'.
Every time I see the EP two volume set ... I get a nervous twitch ... and think at some point I'll pick that one up too. I just love the EP double volume larger books in slipcase. That's why I need to be pushed over the edge for this two volume set of Hunchback. I know I want it ... but I don't wanna spend another $400.
Someone ... please push me over the edge!!!
:)
But in the end ... after all my research ... I really love the FS version. I also will probably pick up the EP famous edition in order to have the extra 'essay'.
Every time I see the EP two volume set ... I get a nervous twitch ... and think at some point I'll pick that one up too. I just love the EP double volume larger books in slipcase. That's why I need to be pushed over the edge for this two volume set of Hunchback. I know I want it ... but I don't wanna spend another $400.
Someone ... please push me over the edge!!!
:)
26HugoDumas
>25 thisGuy33: with the massive economic uncertainty right now, only you know if such an extravagant purchase makes sense right now. I personally hope that EP no longer tempts me.
27treereader
If you have an American Express card there is a good chance that you can break up a purchase like this into 3-12 monthly payments without any fees right now using their Plan It feature. After tax, a $400 DLE like this would cost me something like $36/month over 12 months. I'm not sure if it's offered on all of their cards but it's worth a look if you have one.
Personally, I'd rather buy ~6 regular EP or Folio books for that kind of money. I just wanted to theow the idea out there in case anyone was in a position to take advantage of the promotion but didn't know about it.
Personally, I'd rather buy ~6 regular EP or Folio books for that kind of money. I just wanted to theow the idea out there in case anyone was in a position to take advantage of the promotion but didn't know about it.
28thisGuy33
>26 HugoDumas: The expected 'push over the edge' is turning into a 'talk off the ledge'. You sound like my mom ... such responsible thinking!!!
>27 treereader: I did not know that Amex offers a "Plan It Feature" ... I will have to call about that today.
And I do agree ... "I'd rather buy ~6 regular EP or Folio books for that kind of money" ... I haven't purchased a $350 - $500 book in quite a while. I went thru a year or two of doing that. And as much as I absolutely adore those books ... I have a hard time wrapping my arms around doing that lately.
I don't know why ... but ... if the Hunchback books were $300 ... I would probably easily pull the trigger. But $400 ($440 with tax) starts getting into that ... ehhh area.
>27 treereader: I did not know that Amex offers a "Plan It Feature" ... I will have to call about that today.
And I do agree ... "I'd rather buy ~6 regular EP or Folio books for that kind of money" ... I haven't purchased a $350 - $500 book in quite a while. I went thru a year or two of doing that. And as much as I absolutely adore those books ... I have a hard time wrapping my arms around doing that lately.
I don't know why ... but ... if the Hunchback books were $300 ... I would probably easily pull the trigger. But $400 ($440 with tax) starts getting into that ... ehhh area.
29hamletscamaro
>27 treereader:, >28 thisGuy33:, "I'd rather buy ~6 regular EP or Folio books for that kind of money"
Ironically, I find myself in the exact opposite camp. I have so many books at this point that my shelves are overflowing, and short of putting up shelves in my kid's rooms (I would if my wife would allow it), I simply have no extra space in my house. I'd rather buy a few really well made DLE/LEs, then 4-6 times the quantity of regular priced books to add to the stacks.
I have been going through and scaling down some books for years as my literary tastes have changed, or as I have replaced standard versions with nicer versions, but now my more recent reductions have been much more painful.
I really don't mind a few stacks of books. My wife, on the other hand, is a bit more particular and wants it all to be orgainized. :)
I am also considering the Hunchback DLE. But between my EP DLEs, and a recent run on Folio Society LEs, I've really spent too much money already. This sickness really has not end, but I'm probably preaching to the choir here.
Ironically, I find myself in the exact opposite camp. I have so many books at this point that my shelves are overflowing, and short of putting up shelves in my kid's rooms (I would if my wife would allow it), I simply have no extra space in my house. I'd rather buy a few really well made DLE/LEs, then 4-6 times the quantity of regular priced books to add to the stacks.
I have been going through and scaling down some books for years as my literary tastes have changed, or as I have replaced standard versions with nicer versions, but now my more recent reductions have been much more painful.
I really don't mind a few stacks of books. My wife, on the other hand, is a bit more particular and wants it all to be orgainized. :)
I am also considering the Hunchback DLE. But between my EP DLEs, and a recent run on Folio Society LEs, I've really spent too much money already. This sickness really has not end, but I'm probably preaching to the choir here.
30thisGuy33
>29 hamletscamaro: I'm actually caught in the middle. Like you (and most others on LT) my shelf space is extremely limited at this point. Which has made my purchasing more selective over the last year or two.
But I have struggles from time to time ... like with this Hunchback. There are just some titles that aesthetically really do it for me.
I absolutely love the EP Twain DLE Clamshells. I have them all except Prince and the Pauper (I just can't find one for a fair price). Most I have gotten for $200 - $450. The P&P is continually going for $600 (asking price) ... even thought one did just sell on ebay for less then $500 ... that's just a bit more then I want to spend on that title.
And these two volume full sized slipcase versions EP offers (Hunchback, Three Musketeers, Ring Cycle, Dickens Great Expectations/Tale of two cities non-slipcase) ... really hit the right spot for me. Love all the original illustrations, the size and weight of them ... just really an enjoyable experience holding and reading them.
Yes ... the 'sickness' is real!
lol
But ... we could have worse sicknesses. Life is short ... enjoy it while we can.
But I have struggles from time to time ... like with this Hunchback. There are just some titles that aesthetically really do it for me.
I absolutely love the EP Twain DLE Clamshells. I have them all except Prince and the Pauper (I just can't find one for a fair price). Most I have gotten for $200 - $450. The P&P is continually going for $600 (asking price) ... even thought one did just sell on ebay for less then $500 ... that's just a bit more then I want to spend on that title.
And these two volume full sized slipcase versions EP offers (Hunchback, Three Musketeers, Ring Cycle, Dickens Great Expectations/Tale of two cities non-slipcase) ... really hit the right spot for me. Love all the original illustrations, the size and weight of them ... just really an enjoyable experience holding and reading them.
Yes ... the 'sickness' is real!
lol
But ... we could have worse sicknesses. Life is short ... enjoy it while we can.
31HugoDumas
>30 thisGuy33: Do you really have the coveted Wagner? I wanted that probably more than any other DLE, and had to settle for the beautiful Famous Edition. I now own 3 DVD sets. Last year I studied the Ring by reading the 1) Famous Edition libretto, 2) Ul de Rico’s incredibly illustrated Folio-size Ring of the Nibelung, 3) P. Craig Russell’s graphic novel, and 4) Roy Thomas/Gil Kane graphic novel. I did this in 4 installments in 4 weeks. It gave me such a deeper appreciation for this masterpiece.
32thisGuy33
>31 HugoDumas: Wow you are neck deep into the Ring!!! Impressive. Just sent you a PM.
34fancythings
>33 jroger1: I saw it too and wondering why they moved it to Oct.
35jroger1
Hunchback: “We're sorry, this product is temporarily unavailable and is currently closed to new orders.“
36fancythings
>35 jroger1: Does it mean they cancelled it or sold out with orders.
37jroger1
>36 fancythings:
It probably hasn’t sold out the allotted limitation because they were preparing to print more. But for some reason they have decided not to do so right away. Perhaps there weren’t enough pre-orders.
It probably hasn’t sold out the allotted limitation because they were preparing to print more. But for some reason they have decided not to do so right away. Perhaps there weren’t enough pre-orders.
38saintmelville
Hunchback has been placed on the DLE list and will be available starting Oct. 16.
https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/literature/victor-hugos-the-hunchback...
https://www.eastonpress.com/all-categories/literature/victor-hugos-the-hunchback...
40Neil_Luvs_Books
>39 EPsonNY: I really like those illustrations.
41dtholloway28
Am I reading this thread correctly that both Hugo offerings from EP right now are reproductions from the Routledge set? So neither are Wraxall translations?
42dtholloway28
I wrote to EP and they responded that the 2 volume Les Mis is translated by Blamire
43HugoDumas
>41 dtholloway28: so it’s back for a third print run! All reproductions of the profusely illustrated Victorian Routledge set (1887/1888, 1894) of French authors Dumas, Hugo, and Sue show a copyright ownership by Joseph L. Blamire. I have read and enjoyed them all (23 volumes). They are fine but be advised that they too are all censored to protect the moral sensitivities of readers back then. My positive opinion still holds though on this unusually beautiful Hunchback of Notre Dame 2 volume set. The current EP price is cheaper than any of the copies on eBay ($489–$750).
44dtholloway28
>43 HugoDumas:
You got me interested and I have the Les Mis and Hunchback sets on the way. I have a partial old Routledge set to compare against and also the Everyman editions for Hugo. Lots of fun reading ahead. This will be by first time reading Les Mis.
You got me interested and I have the Les Mis and Hunchback sets on the way. I have a partial old Routledge set to compare against and also the Everyman editions for Hugo. Lots of fun reading ahead. This will be by first time reading Les Mis.
45HugoDumas
>44 dtholloway28: congratulations. You will be pleased with both.
46HugoDumas
>44 dtholloway28: I trust you have received and reviewed the 2 volume reproduction of the Routledge edition of Les Miserables. I am interested in your opinions about this set.
47dtholloway28
>46 HugoDumas: hi, yes I received them in perfect condition. They definitely live up to my expectations. Beautiful binding and slipcase, nice thick paper and it feels like a luxury to have it split into two volumes. I’d be happy to post some pics if you happen to be interested. I wish they would follow with a republish of the 5 volume version of Les Miserable.
48HugoDumas
>47 dtholloway28: if it’s not too much trouble I would love to see pictures of the book. My best guess is it is identical to the 5 volume set but with smaller margins.
I do not think they can reprint the 5 volume set because the printing was a limited edition of 500 copies.
I do not think they can reprint the 5 volume set because the printing was a limited edition of 500 copies.
49dtholloway28
>48 HugoDumas:
Im clearly doing the images wrong but maybe the URLs still work.
img src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/7d/ca/7dcaeb83a851f7863694c56354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/94/ee/94ee9a4eac2215563696656354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/7b/42/7b4291c253a60a963695856354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
Im clearly doing the images wrong but maybe the URLs still work.
img src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/7d/ca/7dcaeb83a851f7863694c56354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/94/ee/94ee9a4eac2215563696656354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
src='https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/7b/42/7b4291c253a60a963695856354142674357414a_v5.jpg'
50HugoDumas
>49 dtholloway28: these are hunchback images, which I have seen. I am interested in Les Miserables.
51dtholloway28
>50 HugoDumas:
If you are wondering whether it actually is the routledge edition, it definitely is:
https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/5a/18/5a184cb28d421f0636a2f6535414267435...
https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/8e/f3/8ef3521883a1ff2636a336535414267435...
If you are wondering whether it actually is the routledge edition, it definitely is:
https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/5a/18/5a184cb28d421f0636a2f6535414267435...
https://pics.librarything.com//picsizes/8e/f3/8ef3521883a1ff2636a336535414267435...
52HugoDumas
>51 dtholloway28: I think this is how EP got around the limited edition of the 5 volume Routledge set (500) by republishing it in 2 volumes without upsetting current owners. Any other pictures of the set would be appreciated.
53treereader
>52 HugoDumas:
Yes, this is pretty normal behavior for EP. “Limited” is completely artificial and circumventable.
Yes, this is pretty normal behavior for EP. “Limited” is completely artificial and circumventable.
54jroger1
>53 treereader:
Folio Society is behaving even worse. They are issuing almost identical books, often within weeks of each other, one set with a number and the other without. They have different covers but not much else. I don’t know whether such shenanigans are actually dishonest — probably not — but they play to collectors for whom numbering is important.
Folio Society is behaving even worse. They are issuing almost identical books, often within weeks of each other, one set with a number and the other without. They have different covers but not much else. I don’t know whether such shenanigans are actually dishonest — probably not — but they play to collectors for whom numbering is important.
55treereader
>54 jroger1:
I thought I was imagining things but yeah, that’s weird of them. FS keeps releasing comparable alternatives to EP and Centipede within a month or whatever. Very shady.
I thought I was imagining things but yeah, that’s weird of them. FS keeps releasing comparable alternatives to EP and Centipede within a month or whatever. Very shady.
56EPsonNY
>54 jroger1: Shenanigans by definition are dishonest, so it feels like you have already made up your mind :).
Folio Society seems to have figured out how to segment the market. There are those who are willing to pay more for a fancy clamshell box and limitation and those who are happy with plain vanilla edition. I do agree; however, that some of Folio's recent 'tiered' publications are essentially identical rendering the limited edition of very little added value...
>55 treereader: In regards to fine or collectible press publishing, it is fairly small world with trade shows, exhibits, book art shows allowing paths to cross. We were short a fine press edition of Animal Farm and all of a sudden we have two from Suntup Press and St. James Park Press...
If anything is shady, it is Easton Press's practice of gradual release of their limited editions. Instead of doing a full limitation print run and releasing it all at once with a counter showing editions remaining until they actually are gone, Easton Press chooses to secretly (no announcement/notification/clarity) do smaller partial runs of 200-300 on a 1200 limitation and then releasing each small run every 4-8 years (clearly early limitations of 400-500 were an error on their part, which is something they are also trying to circumvent to keep releasing editions illustrated by popular artists like Gustave Dore).
How would you feel buying one of their 'Last Chance'-only 10 copies remaining DLEs, for it to be reprinted at least a couple more times over the next few years? How would you feel buying it on the secondary market for 2-3 times the publisher price believing it is actually gone-never-to-be-published-again and there it is again? Is a company that says such things trustworthy?
Folio Society seems to have figured out how to segment the market. There are those who are willing to pay more for a fancy clamshell box and limitation and those who are happy with plain vanilla edition. I do agree; however, that some of Folio's recent 'tiered' publications are essentially identical rendering the limited edition of very little added value...
>55 treereader: In regards to fine or collectible press publishing, it is fairly small world with trade shows, exhibits, book art shows allowing paths to cross. We were short a fine press edition of Animal Farm and all of a sudden we have two from Suntup Press and St. James Park Press...
If anything is shady, it is Easton Press's practice of gradual release of their limited editions. Instead of doing a full limitation print run and releasing it all at once with a counter showing editions remaining until they actually are gone, Easton Press chooses to secretly (no announcement/notification/clarity) do smaller partial runs of 200-300 on a 1200 limitation and then releasing each small run every 4-8 years (clearly early limitations of 400-500 were an error on their part, which is something they are also trying to circumvent to keep releasing editions illustrated by popular artists like Gustave Dore).
How would you feel buying one of their 'Last Chance'-only 10 copies remaining DLEs, for it to be reprinted at least a couple more times over the next few years? How would you feel buying it on the secondary market for 2-3 times the publisher price believing it is actually gone-never-to-be-published-again and there it is again? Is a company that says such things trustworthy?
57jroger1
>56 EPsonNY: “ How would you feel buying it on the secondary market for 2-3 times the publisher price believing it is actually gone-never-to-be-published-again and there it is again?”
A different kind of shenanigan. :) Book publishers are no more honest than any other segment of society, and their customers no less gullible.
A different kind of shenanigan. :) Book publishers are no more honest than any other segment of society, and their customers no less gullible.
58treereader
>56 EPsonNY:
Like you say, it all boils down to one's level of trust in the company. I've not lost trust in EP insofar as to suspect them of overprinting their limitation numbers. I've been observing them do their staggered release process for over a decade, and while I have no definitive proof that they don't go over their limitation numbers, my perceived size of the the luxury book market (very, very small) and the relative frequency of new print runs (4+ years) for these limited editions seems to add up to an honest limit. And why should they overprint a stated limit? It's all too easy to just find a minor variation or a second vintage publication to facsimile and create a "completely different" product with a new limitation count. They can print the same book with trivial design changes and sidestep the limitation concept. I call it cheating and disappointing. EP would be a far more impressive publisher if they designed their own pinnacle-of-premium releases. And if they did that, they'd need to stop cannibalizing that version with also-ran premium versions.
Like you say, it all boils down to one's level of trust in the company. I've not lost trust in EP insofar as to suspect them of overprinting their limitation numbers. I've been observing them do their staggered release process for over a decade, and while I have no definitive proof that they don't go over their limitation numbers, my perceived size of the the luxury book market (very, very small) and the relative frequency of new print runs (4+ years) for these limited editions seems to add up to an honest limit. And why should they overprint a stated limit? It's all too easy to just find a minor variation or a second vintage publication to facsimile and create a "completely different" product with a new limitation count. They can print the same book with trivial design changes and sidestep the limitation concept. I call it cheating and disappointing. EP would be a far more impressive publisher if they designed their own pinnacle-of-premium releases. And if they did that, they'd need to stop cannibalizing that version with also-ran premium versions.
59EPsonNY
>58 treereader: You misunderstood me. Easton Press prints full limitations, but in installments. After each installment approaches low number of copies, they market it as Last Chance, which for a while was interpreted as 'This specific edition will never be reprinted in this format again so grab a copy NOW.' It turned out to be a lie when the book came back again, and sometimes again i.e. 300+300+300+300=1200.
When Easton Press started their DLE endeavor, they initially underestimated potential interest and started off with fairy low limitations for most of their titles. In retrospect, it is easy to say that it was an error. This is why copies of Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues sell for so much...
Recently, having run out of limitation copies of some popular titles, Easton Press has come up with a new way to keep printing the same book. Change number of volumes here, replace clamshell with slipcase there, change cover design elsewhere. It is the same, but different/reinvented edition (new limitation; no longer complete facsimile) so limitation fans or facsimile fans can sleep calmly as was mentioned before...
When Easton Press started their DLE endeavor, they initially underestimated potential interest and started off with fairy low limitations for most of their titles. In retrospect, it is easy to say that it was an error. This is why copies of Verne's Twenty Thousand Leagues sell for so much...
Recently, having run out of limitation copies of some popular titles, Easton Press has come up with a new way to keep printing the same book. Change number of volumes here, replace clamshell with slipcase there, change cover design elsewhere. It is the same, but different/reinvented edition (new limitation; no longer complete facsimile) so limitation fans or facsimile fans can sleep calmly as was mentioned before...
60jroger1
>52 HugoDumas:
I would love to have the Routledge DLE sets, but not at current prices. My copies of Les Mis, Hunchback, and Monte Cristo are from the Famous Editions series, which constituted EP’s nicest series until the DLEs. They don’t have limitations, but I don’t think they are being reprinted anyway. They can usually be obtained from eBay/abe.com at reasonable prices. The illustrations and perhaps the translations differ between the two series.
I would love to have the Routledge DLE sets, but not at current prices. My copies of Les Mis, Hunchback, and Monte Cristo are from the Famous Editions series, which constituted EP’s nicest series until the DLEs. They don’t have limitations, but I don’t think they are being reprinted anyway. They can usually be obtained from eBay/abe.com at reasonable prices. The illustrations and perhaps the translations differ between the two series.
61HugoDumas
>60 jroger1: I previously owned the entire Routledge set of the novels of Dumas, Hugo, and Sue with their profuse illustrations. They were enjoyable reads but at my age, I could not justify keeping them given their huge resale value. I have replaced them with the single volume EP reprints from the Famous edition series. Hugo’s Toilers of the Sea famous edition btw is the most complete version of this novel.
62treereader
>59 EPsonNY:
No, I think we are on the same page. That’s what I thought you meant before. Yes, the first time or two they did it to us it was evil. But ever since then we here now know better. Sure, newcomers risk the chance of learning the hard way, and that sucks. The “Last Chance” verbiage at every possible opportunity bothers me less than the fact that once they are finally done with “300+300+300+300=1200”, they can make a minor tweak and start over with a new limitation. Basically, EP uses the word “limitation” like Proctor & Gamble or Johnson & Johnson might advertise “New and Improved!”: it’s meaningless marketing jargon.
>61 HugoDumas:
I am sad that you gave that set up. I remember reading here how much effort it took you to track down and build that set, and how much you enjoyed it. And, you taught us all a lot about those works in the process.
No, I think we are on the same page. That’s what I thought you meant before. Yes, the first time or two they did it to us it was evil. But ever since then we here now know better. Sure, newcomers risk the chance of learning the hard way, and that sucks. The “Last Chance” verbiage at every possible opportunity bothers me less than the fact that once they are finally done with “300+300+300+300=1200”, they can make a minor tweak and start over with a new limitation. Basically, EP uses the word “limitation” like Proctor & Gamble or Johnson & Johnson might advertise “New and Improved!”: it’s meaningless marketing jargon.
>61 HugoDumas:
I am sad that you gave that set up. I remember reading here how much effort it took you to track down and build that set, and how much you enjoyed it. And, you taught us all a lot about those works in the process.
63jroger1
>61 HugoDumas:
I recently purchased from a listing on eBay copy #1 of the “Toilers of the Sea” DLE. It is my first #1 from any publisher, but wasn’t priced out of line with other copies of the same title. I was concerned that the number “1” might have been forged into an “unnumbered” copy that sometimes find their way into secondary channels, but it looks like the “1” from another listing in the teens, so I assume it is legit.
Modern Library published in 2002 a new translation by James Hogarth that they claim is the first unabridged English translation of “Toilers.”
I recently purchased from a listing on eBay copy #1 of the “Toilers of the Sea” DLE. It is my first #1 from any publisher, but wasn’t priced out of line with other copies of the same title. I was concerned that the number “1” might have been forged into an “unnumbered” copy that sometimes find their way into secondary channels, but it looks like the “1” from another listing in the teens, so I assume it is legit.
Modern Library published in 2002 a new translation by James Hogarth that they claim is the first unabridged English translation of “Toilers.”
64HugoDumas
>63 jroger1: I saw that #1. Congratulations on getting it, it is beautiful. I have kept the Famous Edition copy which claims to be the only complete edition which includes the archipelago of the Channel Islands and a beautiful restored chapter not in any edition to my knowledge titled : “the sea and the wind”.
Hugo was unable to get these two chapters into the first edition reportedly due to time constraints, but had planned to include them in future editions.
I just looked at the table of contents of the Hogarth translation. It includes the archipelago chapter but not the “sea and wind chapter”.
Hugo was unable to get these two chapters into the first edition reportedly due to time constraints, but had planned to include them in future editions.
I just looked at the table of contents of the Hogarth translation. It includes the archipelago chapter but not the “sea and wind chapter”.
65jroger1
>64 HugoDumas:
Hogarth’s “The Winds From the Ocean” chapter is hidden in Part II, Book III.
By the way, for those with a Kindle, you can currently purchase Modern Library’s Hogarth translation for $2.99.
Hogarth’s “The Winds From the Ocean” chapter is hidden in Part II, Book III.
By the way, for those with a Kindle, you can currently purchase Modern Library’s Hogarth translation for $2.99.
66HugoDumas
>65 jroger1: there are 7 chapters to Part Two - Book Third.
Chapter 2 - The Winds from the Open Ocean
Chapter 3 - The Sea and the Wind
I do not believe Hogarth combined chapter 2 and 3 into a single chapter.
Only Easton Press has included chapter 3 based on a reading of Hugo’s diaries. According to Macy “The Sea and the Wind”, the missing chapter, from Part II never appeared in ANY English translation until it was specially translated by our editor for this text” Famous Edition note
Chapter 2 - The Winds from the Open Ocean
Chapter 3 - The Sea and the Wind
I do not believe Hogarth combined chapter 2 and 3 into a single chapter.
Only Easton Press has included chapter 3 based on a reading of Hugo’s diaries. According to Macy “The Sea and the Wind”, the missing chapter, from Part II never appeared in ANY English translation until it was specially translated by our editor for this text” Famous Edition note
67jroger1
>66 HugoDumas:
You’re probably right. I don’t have the Famous Edition to compare it with, but the chapter in question from Hogarth begins:
“Where do they come from? From the incommensurable. Their wingspan takes up the whole expanse of the gulf of ocean. Their giant wings need the illimitable distances of the solitary wastes.”
And ends:
“Water is supple because it is incompressible. When pressed it slips away again. Put under compulsion on one side, it escapes on the other. It is thus that water becomes waves. The waves are its form of freedom.”
The next chapter is titled “Explanation of the Sound Heard By Gilliatt,” and begins:
“The great descent of the winds on the earth takes place at the equinoxes. At these times the balance between the Tropics and the Poles swivels and the colossal tide of the atmosphere directs its flow on one hemisphere and its ebb on the other.”
Does that help? There is no explanatory note in the Kindle edition, and I haven’t received the DLE yet.
You’re probably right. I don’t have the Famous Edition to compare it with, but the chapter in question from Hogarth begins:
“Where do they come from? From the incommensurable. Their wingspan takes up the whole expanse of the gulf of ocean. Their giant wings need the illimitable distances of the solitary wastes.”
And ends:
“Water is supple because it is incompressible. When pressed it slips away again. Put under compulsion on one side, it escapes on the other. It is thus that water becomes waves. The waves are its form of freedom.”
The next chapter is titled “Explanation of the Sound Heard By Gilliatt,” and begins:
“The great descent of the winds on the earth takes place at the equinoxes. At these times the balance between the Tropics and the Poles swivels and the colossal tide of the atmosphere directs its flow on one hemisphere and its ebb on the other.”
Does that help? There is no explanatory note in the Kindle edition, and I haven’t received the DLE yet.
68HugoDumas
>67 jroger1: pretty close to the Famous Edition validating Hogarth did not combine chapter 2 and 3 into one.
69jroger1
>68 HugoDumas:
I knew you had to be right as our resident expert on all things Hugo, but I kept hoping that a respected publisher like Modern Library couldn’t be so careless with its promotions. Anyway, you have stimulated my interest in a book I know little about.
I knew you had to be right as our resident expert on all things Hugo, but I kept hoping that a respected publisher like Modern Library couldn’t be so careless with its promotions. Anyway, you have stimulated my interest in a book I know little about.
70HugoDumas
>69 jroger1: it’s not just Modern Library. When Folio Society came out with their gorgeous one volume edition of Toilers of the Sea in leather with the original art of Victor Hugo in color I was pretty excited. However in my communication with Folio Society it was apparent they were not even aware of the extraordinary poetic chapter “The Sea and the wind”. If they had included that chapter, then the Folio Society would be the definitive edition of Toilers of the Sea.
Your beautiful Routledge edition of Toilers includes all of Hugo’s art plus others so you will be pleased. However it is missing close to a 100 pages: archipelagos chapter + wind and the sea. Thus I recommend the FE as a supplement to the DLE.
Your beautiful Routledge edition of Toilers includes all of Hugo’s art plus others so you will be pleased. However it is missing close to a 100 pages: archipelagos chapter + wind and the sea. Thus I recommend the FE as a supplement to the DLE.
71jroger1
>70 HugoDumas:
Thanks! I’ve received the DLE and have the Famous Edition on order. The FE is really inexpensive.
Do you have a recommendation for an unabridged Musketeers? I already have the 2-volume Routledge DLE.
Thanks! I’ve received the DLE and have the Famous Edition on order. The FE is really inexpensive.
Do you have a recommendation for an unabridged Musketeers? I already have the 2-volume Routledge DLE.
72HugoDumas
>71 jroger1: not sure what you mean by unabridged edition. I think the 2 volume Routledge DLE with the Leloir illustrations is the finest edition out there.
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