Goblet of Fire chapters 5-8 discussion

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Goblet of Fire chapters 5-8 discussion

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Modifié : Jan 14, 2008, 10:54 pm

Hi, gang! This week's chapters are:

  • 5: Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes
  • 6: The Portkey
  • 7: Bagman and Crouch
  • 8: The Quidditch World Cup

  • On with the discussion!

    Jan 14, 2008, 10:58 pm

    *does a back flip*
    Weasley Wizard Wheezes
    Weasley Wizard Wheezes

    (can you get me a cup of tea Weatherby?)
    (Why are they all standing around that mangy old boot)
    (and..."It's true, pretty boys with fabulous cheek bones do fall out of trees!)

    Jan 14, 2008, 11:45 pm

    Bit excited, g? :-) And what's that bit about falling out of trees -- did I miss something?

    I never caught before that the Diggory family apparently lives a good distance from the Weasleys -- they had a much longer walk. And the Lovegoods were mentioned as being already there at the Cup site. Funny, I can't picture Xeno as a Quidditch fan.

    I love the description of all of the different tents at the World Cup.

    More thoughts later -- must . . . sleep . . .

    Jan 15, 2008, 9:39 am

    I loved the table fight!

    Jan 15, 2008, 11:10 am

    Crap! I forgot to read it!

    Jan 15, 2008, 11:10 am

    yah WWW i love that chapter

    Jan 15, 2008, 1:25 pm

    and how well Mrs Weasley knows her boys!

    Jan 16, 2008, 11:57 am

    I'm about 1/2 way through the assigned chapters and I have to say, most of it is filler. Entertaining in a way, Weasleys are always entertaining, but I can see why so much of this was left out or condensed in the movie. (kill me)

    Minor quibbling question: If you can't produce food using magic, they why does Mrs. Weasley have sauce coming out of her wand?

    Jan 16, 2008, 12:57 pm

    I'm not going to be the one to kill you, LG. I feel that this is the book where the concept of editing went completely out the window. And I don't think it's a coincidence that this is the book where the series seemed to go from being "really popular" to being "an interntational publishing phenomenon" with release parties and people standing in line at midnight to buy the book. I'll go out on a limb and say that the popularity of the series worked against it. If they had been less popular, perhaps JKR or her editor would have had more time or more motivation to make the books the best they could be -- which, in the opinions of many, would mean cutting them down to a reasonable length!

    On the other hand, I kinda like the length, as it's that much more HP to enjoy!

    As for the quibbling question, there's an article on food in the wizarding world that I read -- possibly on the Lexicon? possibly on the Leaky? -- that suggested that maybe the sauce isn't "real" food (tastes good, but with no nutritional value), which would explain how all of these wizards manage to eat Mrs. Weasley's home cooking and the enormous meals at Hogwarts without all ending up the same size as Dudley. I'm not sure I buy it; I think this is just another tiny glitch -- JKR wasn't thinking about the mechanics of magical food and Harry and co.'s need for it while on the run when she was writing this book.

    Jan 16, 2008, 1:12 pm

    I agree with you completely about the editing thing, foggi. GoF was the first hardback I bought, so I believe it was the beginning of the media overkill. Hence, bad editing.

    As for the food thing, explain Crabbe, then. (or is it Goyle?)

    Jan 16, 2008, 1:47 pm

    And I'm with g, it's really hard to read about the Weasleys having fun and Wizard Wheezes and such knowing about Fred. Jo, I curse you to the end of time!

    Jan 16, 2008, 3:14 pm

    my son, a non HP fan did pose an interesting Question, why wouldn't wizards like Harry with glasses use magic to fix their eyes? Food can be produced but waving a wand it has been shown numerous times so why would anyone go hungrry? ie sirius and lupin or why be ragged, why not wear great clothes?

    Jan 16, 2008, 3:23 pm

    Your son is pretty smart there, polly. I have often wondered the same things, but it's in the "suspension of disbelief" pile, which for HP is rather high.

    Jan 16, 2008, 3:29 pm

    Someone (for some reason I think it was Terry Pratchett) made the point that, when reading (or writing) fantasy, the thing that makes it interesting is the limitations on the magic. If magic can solve all of your problems with a wave of a wand, you have no conflict to make the story interesting.

    The food thing is just one of those limitations that wasn't fully explained. It's hard to imagine such a detailed and complete magical universe without one or two snags along the way! I'm sure I couldn't do half as well -- I'd probably have written myself into a corner by the third book and never have been able to finish the series! ;-)

    And, if anyone is interested in that food article I mentioned, it's here.

    Jan 16, 2008, 4:39 pm

    I thought about the food thing too, and i wonder if maybe the idea was that the wand could be used to produce only items that were already available from the wand owner's larder/pantry/fridge/etc. and the stores would be depleted as the wand produced them on the prep end. that was what i figured at least, but i'm always first in line to justify what seem to be lapses in an author's continuity ;)

    Jan 16, 2008, 8:35 pm

    11: Gah, i wasn't really thinking about that, damn it *sniffle*

    Modifié : Jan 17, 2008, 9:11 am

    15> that makes sense to me! but what about the time mcgonagall waved up a platter of sandwiches for ron and harry in COS? Hogwarts kitchen? and slughorns party on the train?

    Jan 17, 2008, 9:59 am

    I always figured that McGonagall got the sandwiches from the Hogwarts kitchen in the same way that the food always appeared in the Great Hall -- the house-elves made it and sent it up.

    Modifié : Jan 17, 2008, 10:48 am

    17: what foggidawn said. and i have to admit to not remembering if Slughorn made the food for his party appear, or if it was simply there when Harry arrived to the compartment - perhaps Slughorn had brought it on with him, or made prior arrangements? he didn't like to be without his creature comforts, after all...

    Jan 17, 2008, 12:23 pm

    OK, quidditch.

    I'm a sports fan and there's no way a player who is supposed to be as good as Krum would catch the snitch when it would secure his team's loss. It's just bad strategy. The whole idea of playing seeker would be about catching the snitch at the proper time. It just doesn't make any sense.

    JKR could have had the snitch bounce into his hand inadertantly or something, but to explain it away as "he figured they couldn't win so he just put the team out of its misery" is just plain dumb. You don't get to the finals of a WORLD CUP and then tank. You just don't.

    Jan 17, 2008, 12:25 pm

    maybe its just a seeker thing? see a snitch, catch it!

    Jan 17, 2008, 12:27 pm

    or just a boy thing. Krum probably just wanted to prove he's still the best damn player on the feild

    Jan 17, 2008, 12:30 pm

    See, that's just it. Because the timing of the catch is crucial, that would be something a good seeker would always be aware of.

    It's like in basketball, at the end of the game thare strategic ways to use your available time outs. It is crucial to pay attention to how many you have left. Players & coaches almost NEVER get that wrong, to the point where the one time it happened in a big game, it is remembered forever as a major goof. Chris Webber will never live down trying to call a timeout when there weren't any left in an NCAA championship game.

    Jan 17, 2008, 1:12 pm

    But when you really think about it.... There were millions of people screaming... wind blowing in his ears and he was concentrating on finding a very tiny golden ball in a sea of green and scarlet colored supporters and players... With our sports you are never flying haha... just imagine sticking your head out of an airplane window and still trying to hear the score of the game you are watching... and or playing... a little difficult you think?

    Jan 17, 2008, 1:27 pm

    Of course it's difficult, it's the WORLD CUP! Great players thrive on the challenge and the roar of the crowd.

    What I'm saying is, JKR handled the idea badly. There might be circumstances where a great player would make this mistake, or it would happen through guile or chance, but the way she described it just didn't fly. Explaining it away was idiotic.

    Why make up a game with this feature as a part of it, then make the "greatest seeker ever" make a bonehead freshman move and then try to sell the idea was intentional, in order to throw the game. Did you ever see Michael Jordan or Roger Federer or Tiger Woods just give up? No! That's what makes them the greatest.

    Jan 17, 2008, 2:48 pm

    Good point about Krum. However, as I saw it, Krum caught the snitch because otherwise Lynch was going to catch it. The game was over either way, Krum knew Bulgaria had lost -- he just wanted to prove that he was the best Seeker at that point.

    Jan 17, 2008, 4:16 pm

    I thought Lynch hit the ground a second time. Perhaps I should reread. But when Ron says "why did he do that?" someone explained it that he did it intentionally.

    No way.

    Jan 17, 2008, 4:22 pm

    #27 -- Lynch did hit the ground a second time, and maybe Krum could have managed to not catch the Snitch at that point. However, the way I'm picturing it in my own mind, both players are neck-and-neck, reaching for the Snitch. At the last possible moment, Krum grabs the Snitch and pulls out of the dive, while Lynch plows into the ground again. I'm not sure it's stated so plainly in the book, so I could be wrong. That's just how I've always pictured it. (I'm not much of a sports fan, either, which might account for me buying JKR's explanation of the QWC events.)

    Jan 17, 2008, 4:56 pm

    Well, if it were Lynch was going to catch it unless Krum stole it out of his hand, that would be one thing. But that's not how it's explained.

    I think I'm over this topic. Lately, sports just makes me mad all the time, what with all the steroids and people dying in DUI accidents and shootings and I don't know what all.

    The tennis has been good so far, tho.

    Jan 17, 2008, 8:17 pm

    I think it was in Chamber of Secrets at the last Quidditch match that Harry knew not to catch the snitch unless Griffyndor was ahead by a certain amount. They would have won the game, but lost the cup.

    Jan 18, 2008, 10:17 am

    Well, as I recall, Wood made sure that he knew.

    Jan 18, 2008, 12:51 pm

    #29 Still, he could just have batted it away from Lynch, not caught it.

    Did anyone watch Rafael Nadal against Gilles Simon match last night? Nadal fought off 6 set points against him, then ended up winning four straight games and taking the first set 7-5. Simon played well, but the person with the biggest cojones ended up on top. That's what greatness is--never giving up, mental toughness.

    OK, really, I'm done now.

    Jan 18, 2008, 1:06 pm

    Hmmm . . . we learned in DH that the Snitch remembers the first hand (mouth?) ;-) that touches it. Wonder what that means for "fumbles"? I mean, you would think that there would be lots of instances where someone touched the Snitch, but it slipped from their hands. Or the scenario suggested in #32.

    I do agree that it was way too early in the game to "give up" -- weren't some Quidditch World Cup games supposed to have gone on for days? But for the purpose of the story, it all works: leprechauns, Fred & George's bet, Krum's reputation . . . so I'm done nit-picking, too.

    Jan 18, 2008, 1:23 pm

    On a positive plotting note she introduces the portkey which will be important later in the plot

    (on a negative not and it may be one reason I like this book less than some of the others why do villians always do things in unnecessarily overcomplicated ways. . . but that's the end of the book I'll wait)

    Jan 20, 2008, 9:18 am

    Remember, discussion of chapters 9-12 starts tomorrow! Don't forget to read them!