BRITISH CROSSWORD PUZZLES

Does anyone out there really get the Clues to the British
Crossword Puzzles? I surely don't and I have tried to do
some of the London Times Puzzles including their Sunday
Crossword Puzzles and I have several Crossword Puzzle
Books at home by the London Daily Mail and I can't do
even one of their Clues. I find the Clues to the British
Crossword Puzzles much harder and more confusing than
trying to do the Sunday New York Times or Washinngton
Post at least I am familiar with the American Style of Clues to Crossword Puzzles. I help soomeout there can really help me and explain the Style of British Clues to me
so I can complete their Crossword Puzzles. Their Style of
Clues makes no sense to me.

Librarianwannabe

Hi there! I may not be much help, but I'll do what I can. My mum has always done the Daily Telegraph crossword everyday, so I'm kind of in tune with their style... Unfortunately, each compiler tends to have their own style of cryptic clue, so there's no set of rules which apply to all. Are there any particular clues you want help with? Maybe you could post one, and if I (or someone else) can solve it, we'll do a step by step of why the solution is what it is, which may help more generally.

I always struggle with The Times puzzle, and I'm English born and bred. The Telegraph one is better for thickoes like me; on a good day, with a following wind, I can even complete it!

There are some 'culture-specific' clues, but I'd say it should be possible to get to grips with it if you do enough practice attempts.

I wouldn't touch anything with the words 'Daily Mail' on it, so can't comment on their crosswords.

British crosswords are "cryptic crosswords," and are completely different from American crosswords. The answers are often plays on words, and there are clues embedded within the clues. I bought a "how-to" book once but didn't get very far !

What might help a bit is to know that the clues for a "cryptic" crossword are usually in two parts. One part gives you a definition of the complete solution, while the other part tells you how to make it up from various bits and pieces. The idea is that when you get the right answer, you know that it is correct because it matches both parts of the clue. By contrast, the so-called "quick" crossword has a clue that is a definition of the solution, but there could be many possible answers.

A very clumsy example I've just made up: say the solution is THAMES

A "quick" clue might be "English river (6)" - the answer could be THAMES, SEVERN, or any number of other things

A "cryptic" clue might be "Sam, the mixed-up flower (6)"

- Words like "mixed up" tell you to look for an anagram, i.e. in this case take the letters "SAM THE" and mix them up. The solution should mean "flower". In the warped mind of a crossword compiler, a flow-er is a thing that flows, i.e. a river. Thus a solution to the anagram that is also the name of a river would be correct. THAMES is the only one that fits.

There are a lot of conventions like this that you have to learn, and which vary between compilers. Look out for puns, synonyms, homonyms, etc. If a clue says "headless", it probably means "delete the first letter"; if it says "the French" try "le" or "la", etc., etc. And of course the compilers try to keep you guessing, so sometimes a flower really is a flower...

Try a daily paper where you get the answers the following day, and keep trying to match answers to clues, and you'll soon get the idea. It can't be all that difficult - very few of the people who read the Times are geniuses, and none of those who read the Telegraph are, and the compilers would be out of a job if no-one could solve the crossword...

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.I'll see what I can do. I think I'll go to one of the Internet Web Sites
that have Crossword Puzzles from the London Times,
Daily Telegraph,etc. Usually whenever I do the New York Times Sunday Crossword Puzzle, Washington Post
or even the Frederick News Post I will do the answers in ink and any Clues I have trouble with I' wait until the answers come out the next time and write them down in the Crossword Puzzle Dictionaries I own. The
Crossword Puzzle Dictionaries are a great help to me.
Are there any Crossword Puzzle Dictionaries on the Market for British Crosswords?

Librarianwannabe

I try to do the "Daily Telegraph" cryptic every day and often finish or get to the last one or two. As thorold suggests in #5 the worst thing you can do is try to solve the clue as a "whole" — as he says it's really nearly always two clues. So for example in today's 1 across we have: "Cold containers for bubbly" and 9 across "Wavering on diet? Be disciplined"
The answer to 1 is "champers" because it's a word used for champagne (or bubbly, which is the "straight" clue) and "c" is cold and "hampers" are containers. The answer to 9 is "obedient" ("disciplined" being the straight clue) and it's an anagram of "on diet be" ("wavering" being another word that suggests an anagram). Also you can see that the punctuation is allowed to be deceptive. There's a useful book which goes over some of the conventions and the common clue types. It's Chambers Crossword Manual by Don Manley. But you will find solving the puzzles becomes easier as you get used to the workings of devious minds.
PS: I'll be embarassed if tomorrow's paper shows my solutions to be wrong.

Certainly there are usually two ways into the solution but I often find that a solution springs to mind, only after which I work out how on earth the compiler derived the clue.

Practice certainly improves performance and you get used to the conventions. A few more from the Times -
Mention of a gangster usually means AL (Capone, that is).
Soldiers or similar in the clue suggests GI, OR (for other ranks), TA (Territorial Army), etc. These except the first are challenging for non-Brits.
'About' leads to RE, or possibly C (circa).
'Drug' usually refers to E or H
'Back' or reference to going up, North or West may mean reversing part of the clue.
'Say' can suggest that the previous word is one of a category, the category being part or all of the answer.
Reference to 'hearing' or 'speaking' makes one think of homonyms.

The Times no longer assumes a classical education but still is pretty English establishment in attitude.

Cryptic crosswords are much less popular in the U.S. than in England. I work for a puzzle magazine company, and we do have cryptic-crossword fans, but they are a vocal minority. If it helps, our website has a page on solving cryptic crosswords:

http://www.pennypress.com/solvers/cryptic.shtml

I should also confess that while my husband is a big fan of cryptics, I am hopeless at them!

Perhaps you should consider reading
Pretty Girl in Crimson Rose(8) by Sandy Balfour ?

A South-African who falls in love with British cryptic crosswords.

(The answer to the title is REBELLED.)

#8: Have to say that the "Times" crossword is often better constructed than the one in the "Daily Telegraph" and when I get the chance I enjoy having a go (usually only with partial success). And the "codes" you suggest have to be part of any solver's armoury. As for vocabulary it is true that the clues favour native speakers and also those who enjoy delving into the odd corners. For me the greatest delight is deciding that the solution has to be "xxxxxx" (a word I've never heard of) and on looking it up in the dictionary finding it makes perfect sense.

#8

Another hint is that 'one' sometimes means an I in the answer. For example - Polish brigade involve one in runners on board. (10) Answer. Chairwomen.

OK for that one you probably need a bit of anglo centric knowledge for the first part of the clue.

#9

I particularly like the ones which are homographs. For example motorcycle listlessly - 5 letters. Answer is moped.

Also as this is the Anglophiles group I feel it is only fair to point out to Librarianwannabe that there is no such paper as The London Times. It is just The Times - it is the original. it has and needs no location in its name. Also adding London is quite simply wrong. The Times is a national paper and not something particularly associated with London any more than any of the other national papers.

Well I Apologize to everyone for the error on my part. Thank You for straightening me out because I had always thought of it as The London Times. In the future I will refer to it as The Times. I meant no disrespect to anyone.

Librarianwannabe

I'd like to second PossMan's recommendation of the Chambers Crossword Manual. I've just created a cryptic crossword group, which I hope will be a good place to discuss this sort of thing.