Coffee?

I just added this to my profile:

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Here's a curious observation for you. When I first joined LibraryThing I noticed the Tea group. Pretty neat, I thought, since I love tea. Just out of curiosity I looked for a Coffee group. There was no coffee group. None whatsoever. Crazy. So, just today, I checked again and I found one! I clicked on the link and was met with, "The group Coffee! no longer exists." Haha! I guess we know where our loyalties lay.

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Amusing. So, what do you think about this phenomenon? It's interesting that there's such a strong predilection. I'm not anti-coffee or anything, but I do prefer tea. I've gone through phases where I've drank a lot of coffee, but anymore I just don't care for it all that much. I think it's because I've had some really excellent coffee before, but the vast majority of coffee you can find (including Starbuck's) tastes like ass. It's almost always burnt and/or stale. It's so rare to find a truly excellent cup of coffee that coffee drinking for me has become a rarity.

I still drink tea and coffee equally, so I'm not sure why there's such preference for tea. I've had friends mention that coffee is too bitter, and one friend thought it made her more jittery than tea.

But there is still a coffee group on LT: LibraryThing Coffeehouse.

I can't drink coffee so my loyalty will always be with tea :p

Tea seems to be "in vogue" right now. I have no idea why, but I don't mind!

Doh! Ok, I stand corrected. There is, in fact, a coffee group. Though the tea group is over 8 1/2 times larger, so I suppose my original point is still valid.

Also, I do have to say that the caffeine in coffee seems to have a greater affect on me. Strangely, sometimes it makes me super alert and active, and other times it makes me feel sluggish; like I want to take a nap (and I mean shortly after drinking it, not after it's wearing off). Maybe I'm just weird like that.

I admit that occasionally I enjoy a cup of coffee - usually when I'm in terrible need of caffeine and the tea selection wherever I'm dining is absolutely abominable. Coffee upsets my system in many ways, though, so I keep its intake to a minimum. Besides, I like coffee but I LOVE tea. For some reasons tea lovers seem to be more passionate in their tea fascination that coffee lovers. Perhaps coffee keeps one awake (and jittery) but tea keeps one inspired.

Possibly, ladygata. :) But I may also say that while I love a good cup of coffee (like Travas, I've had some that was marvelous) - and sometimes am glad of a passable cup - my enduring love is for tea. Dining out, agreed, coffee is nearly always the choice. In a nice place, it's almost certain to be better than the tea. But I think our passion in this group is born not only of tea's gentleness, but of its infinite variety, of cultural differences, curiosity, and the fact that whatever vogue may also be hitting, true tea preferences are NOT the norm in many countries. For me, talking to others genuinely passionate about tea is a rare, almost remarkable thing. It made this group far more refreshing and sustaining than a fine pot on a chill day. I can't say how welcome that was.

(As anyone may see, I availed myself of it, thoroughly! :) )

I moderate a Coffee & Tea forum, and the tea posts quite outweigh the coffee posts. It seems to me that since tea is supposedly the less popular drink, we tea-o-philes feel it necessary to talk about it more. ^_~

If you'll pardon the analogy, it's similiar to why there's a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, but no Children's Day (in North America): every day is Children's Day! (That's the answer I got as a child, anyway!)

If coffee is "the norm" then coffee drinkers perhaps feel less need to discuss it.

I would like to share a recent experience and my enduring attachment to tea.

I've never been a coffee drinker---love the smell but dislike the taste. However, we made our first trip to Italy this summer. A relative of my husband's told me that I would become a coffee lover in Italy as soon as I had my first cappuccino. I said, "no way!". Well, I must report that she was right. I enjoyed many cappuccini in Italy and my husband and I purchased an espresso machine promptly upon our return.

Having had the machine for a few months now I can report that I enjoy an occasional cappuccino. I told my husband recently that I enjoy it as a "luxury". But now that the weather is cool there is no doubt that tea will continue to be my daily beverage. While cappuccino says "luxury", tea is warmth and coziness and LOVE!

And like you, Eurydice, I enjoy the variety. I have 3 or 4 varieties in my cabinet and I love looking at them each morning to decide which one "feels" right!

I think that tea has an aura of sociability that coffee lacks. When someone speaks of putting on a pot of tea, I immediately envision two or more friends sitting around a table, pouring out cups and chatting animatedly. Tea has an inherently leisurely feel to it - perhaps because, once the pot is "on", it requires time to steep?

The phrase "pot of coffee" doesn't call up that sort of impression. Maybe that's because coffee isn't savoured, cup after cup after cup, in quite the same way. A lot of people simply use it to wake up in the morning and to give themselves a welcome jolt of energy later in the day. (In fact, I tend to call coffee the "lubricant of capitalism" for that reason.) And whereas tea relaxes, coffee enervates.

It seems to me - if I may generalize very wildly indeed - that coffee is perceived as a drink that is essentially solitary in nature. This is rather ironic given that in Europe, it was the coffeehouse that first offered a place for people to meet, drink coffee sociably with one another, and sit for hours discussing the matters of the day. Teahouses came later...

Chamekke, I'm enjoying thinking about this issue. I do largely agree with you, though in some areas am not quite sure. It's delightful terrain to consider, so I won't hurry an answer, but hope to contribute something to the discussion later!

J.

Like Ladygata, I like coffee, but love tea. Don't get me wrong, coffee is fine. If you're out to breakfast, say, at a diner, coffee always works with greasy eggs and burnt potatoes. When I'm home though, or at work, if you are lucky enough to have an office or shop where you can boil water, tea is it. Like Chamekke said above, tea is more than a beverage, it's an activity, one that takes a while when done properly. Too rush through a cup of tea the way one might gulp down a cup of coffee is madness. Tea takes a bit of patience and is better for it, whereas coffee is on-the-go and a little too aggressive for the contemplative.

I wonder to what extent the tea enthusiasts' perceptions of coffee have been shaped by the explosion of American coffee culture during the 90's. My perception of coffee definately isn't something "on-the-go", but rather a beverage that's as social as tea, albeit in a different way. Tea, in my mind, conjures up a more quiet, refined environment; coffee, on the other hand, brings to mind dimly-lit rooms and people leaning over tables in hushed conversation. (Although historically, coffee houses were very noisy places, from what I understand.) The "fast food" image of coffee seems to share more in common with, say, nauseatingly sweet Lipton iced tea from an enormous cooler from wherever one is having lunch.

I enjoy both, although I tend to prefer coffee over tea. My preference does shift with the time of day, however; from mid-afternoon onward, I tend to lean toward a cup of tea.

In my town, when one goes to visit or has guests in, putting on a pot of coffee or putting on a pot of tea both mean friendship and warmth and caring. Tea and coffee are the background. Friendship is what makes the sharing. Perhaps the tea is a bit more ritualistic, a little more formal, perhaps not. Either way, a sit down with a friend is always welcome.

I like coffe but it has to have a flavor like pumpkin spice. But tea is better!!!!!

Re: chamekke

"lubricant of capitalism"

That's awesome. I'm going to have to steal that one...

>15 Travas:

That's awesome. I'm going to have to steal that one...

Go right ahead. I'd be happy to set that phrase free and see it grow up to become a meme :-)

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Strangely, sometimes it makes me super alert and active, and other times it makes me feel sluggish

My cure for this phenomenon is to mix one part regular coffee with one part decaf coffee (in whatever proportion you like so that you get no more caffeine than you want). I usually do half regular/half decaf coffee in the morning and just decaf in the evening.

I have my tea bags divided into those with black tea, green tea, and neither black or green (herbal/decaf) so my tea-drinking friends can make the same choice.

...the caffeine in coffee seems to have a greater affect on me.

That's because coffee has more caffeine in it than tea.

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Maybe that's because coffee isn't savoured, cup after cup after cup, in quite the same way.

Ha! For me, it is! I carry around a cup of coffee (although it gets cold) for hours. I drink small sips at a time and refuse to give up my cup until it's done.

I'm not here as a coffee-lover to usurp this thread, but to join tea lovers as well. I'm trying new brands of tea and am happy to announce that I now have grown to like tea and want to learn more about it.

This is rather ironic given that in Europe, it was the coffeehouse that first offered a place for people to meet, drink coffee sociably with one another, and sit for hours discussing the matters of the day. Teahouses came later...

Perhaps the social aspect of coffee or tea comes from where one associates drinking it. Coffee brings to mind my living in the Mideast. Tea brings to mind Chinese restaurants. :-)

While I am a tea drinker at heart and have ~ 8 cups per day, I also enjoy a good cup of coffee. My favorite is Turkish coffee, plain or with spices (coriander or cardamom).

Like #19, I'm basically a tea addict - but I appreciate good coffee too. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Similar to the fact that I'm basically a "dog person" through and through ... but that doesn't stop me from being beguiled by cats!

Like #19, I'm basically a tea addict - but I appreciate good coffee too. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Quite agreed.

I actually have a real weakness for good coffee, but tea is the elixir of life for me!

However, in my own case I would have to say this is much like being a cat person, and having a deep fondness for good dogs. If I could own one or two I've known, and didn't have a very devoted, but shy, cat - I'd add them in a heartbeat.

I always used to prefer coffee, never really drank tea unless I was at work and someone made it by mistake (I work in a busy hospital, and I'll drink anything at work!). But when I got pregnant, I went off coffee. Not uncommon, but I got so used to drinking tea that even though my daughter is 7 months old now, I still only really drink coffee when I'm out.

This is wandering a bit off topic, but chamekke's and others' comments about the relative sociability of coffee and tea got me thinking. I'd say maybe tea is a bit more social because everyone tends to drink the same tea from the same pot. For coffee, especially in the starbucks or equivalent, everyone has their very own drink - even if they are the same, they are prepared individually. Which leads to the even more social yerba mate. When I was in Patagonia, I discovered that it is normally drunk from a communal bombilla, and is absolutely a social drink. One fellow I met said that one of the saddest things he'd ever seen was two shepherds out in the middle of nowhere that had a fight, and now were so mad at each other that they wouldn't even share mate in the morning.

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I'd say maybe tea is a bit more social because everyone tends to drink the same tea from the same pot.

grizzly.anderson, I think you've nailed it. There's something comfortingly communal about sharing a big pot of tea. Also, the ritual of pouring for another, offering a top-up when you see that someone's cup is getting low, etc., has a graciousness and solicitude that is really special (and not seen quite as often in the coffee world).

Your posting made me think of Japanese tea ceremony. Most people are unaware that there are two types of tea served: thin tea and thick tea. Both are made with matcha (tea leaves ground into powder) which is thoroughly whisked into hot water, then served in the bowl in which the tea was made.

Thin tea is served individually - one bowl to one guest, as you might expect. In contrast, thick tea (which is made with more matcha and less water) is made in a single bowl that is passed in turn from the first guest to all the others. You receive it from the previous guest, take two small sips, then pass the bowl into the waiting hands of the next guest. The communal aspect of thick tea makes for a more formal event - it's considered more profound than "thin tea", and takes place in near-silence. Some historians have even suggested that the Christian communion may have had an influence on this aspect of tea ceremony.

Anyway, there is something about taking a drink together from a shared vessel that seems inherently more sociable... whether it's a pot of tea or a bombilla of yerba mate. (Which, by the way, I must try one of these days - do you like it? :-)

chamekke,

I'm not the person to whom you addressed the question, but I'd definitely recommend yerba mate. It's got a sort of smoky, rooty, soil-y flavor. Takes a little getting used to, particularly if you're used to traditional black teas or even greens, but I enjoy it quite a bit.

chamekke, I do like yerba mate. My mom sent it to me in a care package once when I was at college as "something different", and I've enjoyed it ever since. I don't drink nearly as much of it as I do true tea, but it is enjoyable. It doesn't contain caffeine AFAIK, but it does have some sort of mild stimulant in it.

The best I can describe the flavor is kind of vegetal and earthy. For whatever reason, I like it most when I'm camping or the fall sitting on the porch looking at the changing trees up and down the block. Plymouth Tea (and probably some other shops) offer flavored mate as well. I had one flavored with blood orange that was quite good.

Oh - and to jump back on topic - I tried coffee. I really did. I've even tried it sitting in a street cafe in Paris. I still just can't stand the stuff. I figure I've given it my best shot, and I must just be missing the coffee taste buds. Oh well.

I too have times where I only drink tea and than find that I only crave coffee. For me this is extreme because I don't really like "Regular" tea, no I prefer herbal tea without any sweetner, "straight up" as it were.

But For a while now I crave coffee. I do find it remarkable to read that there are more people on here who have (like me) the problem that coffee makes them sluggish! I thought I was a "Coffee Freak" since it is loaded with caffeine it should wake me up, right? And how can you get a tad nervouse but still feel tired after a cup of coffee?

I also love cappuccino ( the smooth foam and than the first sipp of the milky coffee hmmmm) but can't stomach espresso.

And yes, yes, yes it is damn hard to find a good coffee brand, maker or shop. I really start to think that the quality of the coffee beans is degrating, or, the coffeeshops set the machines wrong. At home I also have no luck getting a tasty cup, inspite of the special machine I got. (so I guess it is the coffee beans after all ;) I swear ten years ago almost everyone served a decent cup, but not no more. Any tips??

And how can you get a tad nervous but still feel tired after a cup of coffee?

Perhaps it's the sugar in the coffee that is making you sleepy? I have a friend who also suggests it my tap water (!) with which I cook that meakes her sleepy. Perhaps try making it with distilled or spring water? Are you sure you're using caffeinated coffee?

I swear ten years ago almost everyone served a decent cup, but not no more. Any tips??

Things I do to try to get a decent cup of coffee.

1. Avoid buying prepared coffee at Starbucks! The beans are okay, but the coffee always tastes burnt when made in the store. :-(

2. Use freshly roasted beans. Find a coffee roaster near where you live that roasts their own beans and sells them. I fortunately live near a Mayorga's. Their coffee is fabulous. Barring that, try to determine how old the roasted coffee beans are before you buy them. Buy the freshest ones. Use them right away or store them in an airtight container in your freezer.

3. Smell those beans! If you press on a sealed bag of coffee, you can press out a whiff of that coffee's aroma. Find one that smells good to you. People's tastes vary. Buy that one.

4. Decide which roast you like. I like medium. Light roast is a very mild flavor of coffee. Medium is, of coarse, right in the middle. Dark roast is very strong and is usally a bit too much for me ... although I do like Turkish coffee ... which is prepared a different way altogether.

5. Buy whole beans. Grind them at home right before you drink the coffee. Starbucks sells an inexpensive, but very good, coffee grinder ($20). Grind the beans until the are finely ground and put them into a drip coffee maker. Vary the amount of coffee you use until you find the strength you like. I use 3/8 cup beans for 5 cups (6-oz each) of coffee in my Braun drip coffee maker (maye $20). With a paper towel, I always wipe out my coffee grinder after each use. Some people only use filtered water for their coffee. I use tap water without any problem.You'll need to experiment with the amount of coffee you use. If you like stronger coffee, use more in proportion to the water. If you like weaker coffee, use less coffee in proportion to the water.

6. If you should decide to use a French press, only grind your coffee until it is of a coarse grind - or it will get caught in the filter screen of the French press. See hints about the use of a French press on another thread. I just learned how to use one a few months ago with good results. It's an excellent way to make a good cup of coffee for just one person.

7. Never leave a freshly brewed pot of coffee sitting on a burner. That's what takes away the aroma and make it taste bitter. If you make more than you are going to use, pour it into a thermos to keep it hot. Coffee websites will tell you never to leave a fresh pot of coffee on a warmer longer than 18 minutes. I like to drink my freshly-brewed coffee right away.

8. Don't buy flavored coffee! If you like flavored coffee, add your own flavor at home. In that way, you can avoid artifical flavors in your coffee. This week, I added chocolate liquer (sp?) to my two cups of my coffee. Sometimes I add Kahlua. Yum!

9. If you prefer sweetened coffee, by all means add a sweetener. Use sugar, if not on a diet, or Splenda, if on a diet or if you are diabetic so as not to add even more calories.

10. To lighten your coffee, use real cream or half and half. Two tablespoons of half-and-half have 35 to 40 calories. Figure that into your total caloric content for the day.

The bottom line is that you have to decide how you like your coffee and experiment with it until you find somethng that makes it taste very good to you!

My good friend is a coffee buff, and now she'll only drink cappucino from her new cappucino maker. I, however, like my own non-cappucino, but also freshly-made, coffee.

Please chime in, others, to add to this list of "To do's". I always like to improve my coffee-making skills. Thanks!

Happy Holidays, everyone!

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Ah! Yerba mate! That brings back lovely memories of Hebrew language school in Israel many, many years ago where a lively group of Argentinians shared their national tea (with its accompanying cup and special straw) with me.

I like the fact that tea and coffee so often are the glue on which friendships are made and nurtured.

I've drunk coffee in the morning for years but recently I have been downing pots of tea!

Hello SqueakyChu,

Thank you very much for your helpfull answer on my post. I appreciate the time you took to give me such an elaborate answer. I will surely keep your tips in mind, and if they give me a "Pleasurable Cup of Joe" I will let you know =)

LoL! Tastes like ass. #1, I thought I was the only one to say that! :P

Oh, and I can give a suggestion for those of you who want great coffee...do you have a mexican grocery in your area? I have found yerba mate and venezualan coffee in the mexican grocery. It's also a good place to get Camomile tea...is called Manzanilla I believe. I have never had coffee I like better than Venezualan...just check the package for the origin. I am to understand that Brazilian is just as good, but I haven't found any of that yet. And yes, buy the whole beans if possible. Also, if you find Abuelita hot chocolate, (solid bars with a hint of cinnamon that you melt in milk and zap in the blender!) give that a try. It takes a bit more effort than Swiss Miss, but holy cow is it good.

I like them equally, but I find myself drinking more tea in the winter. It's just the more ceremonial coziness of it all.

They really are apples and oranges, especially when you get into the herbals.

~Jimm

I cannot stand coffee, so it will always be tea for me over coffee. I love the wide varieties of tea that are available now. I also have a daughter (16) who is a committed tea drinker, so we have a good time visiting websites and picking out different teas to try.

Speaking of Yerba Mate, one of my dearest friends is from Uruguay. Some time ago, I spent and entire evening with her and her visiting father, who spoke no English (I speak no Spanish). We drank Mate from a hand-carved gourd that we passed around and through her translations, some hand-waving and wild gesticulations, we conversed and drank all night.

Oh and he was pouring giant slugs of Rum, too. That helped.

One of the things he lit up over was the fact that I was reading a Jack London Book (Before Adam).

http://books.google.com/books?id=Cms2AAAAIAAJ

~Jimm

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Did you know that today is Jack London's birthday?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_London

Ahh! Pass that gourd with the yerba mate (and the rum) over here...

Coffee I find too harsh, hard and sharp.
I appreciate the smell and texture of coffee, it's good for cooking and imparting its flavour on ingredients.

Then there's stuff on the other end of the spectrum like a latte, which to me just tastes like hot milk with the vaguest impression of coffee. Which isn't really that pleasant.

I have occasionally had a moccaccino which is relatively pleasant, but that's as far as I go into coffee territory.

i love coffee. im not afraid to admit it. tea is wonderful, its good to relax, stay warm on a cold night, its a great companion to a good book, ect... but theres something about when im in the military atmosphere, early in the morning theres NOTHING like a cup of joe. even black and badly brewed its starts my day right

Tea, hot or iced, is my main drink. I only drink sodas when I'm eating out and I drink water at work. Coffee is saved for the occasional late evening when I'm relaxing and the house is quite.

I'm allergic to coffee, if I drink it I'm sick for three days. I've tried, but no go. Tea, however, is pure pleasure. Black, green, white, red, herbal. So many combinations of flavours, and one can enjoy totally different tastes throughout the day. And of course, there's the calming ritual of preparing tea.

Aahh, Yerba Mate. In my Bible School days many of my friends were MKs (missionary kids) from South America. I loved chapel days when one of them would bring the cooler and we'd sit passing the horn/bombilla for the whole hour while the speaker droned on. Have any of you had it this way? It is drunk with cold water...sometimes with lemon in it. It is called Terere. It is just cold mate. It's utterly addicting.

tiegster -

I have never had mate that was served intentionally cold. The only occasion I have had to drink it was when my aunts in-laws visited from Argentina. I found I loved the way Pete (Pe-te as in petite) made it but I didn't like it when my aunt made her own. They actually sent her back with a cup and "straw" for me after their last visit. I have yet to make my own though....

Jessica

I am a product of a mixed gene pool--Swedish on my Dad's side, Scottish on my maternal Grandmother's--so I drink both coffee and tea. But the Svenska won out in that I take both straight, no milk or sugar (sometimes a little honey in green tea or honey and lemon when nursing a cold).

At home I almost always make tea, but when I'm out coffee is more reliable, except for those places that specialize in tea. Ordering a cup of tea in most restaurants will get you a cup of sort-of hot water and a tea bag. (I once asked a waitress, "If I'd ordered coffee would you have brought me a cup of water and some beans?") The coffee, at least, is brewed before they bring it to you.

The thing I love about tea is the variety. Maybe it's my taste buds, but I can't distinguish varieties of coffee by flavor alone. (Except that Starbucks' Pike Place is undoubtedly the worst coffee they've ever offered.) Tea comes in so many wonderful varieties--green to black, Earl Grey, Assam and lapsang souchong. That's not even counting the herbals; I'm more a true tea drinker, but like rooibos, mint and some of the other more strongly flavored herbs. There are always new varieties to explore and blends to try.

I got seriously addicted to caffeine as a postgraduate student, and (when I discovered what the problem was) I went cold turkey, with the help of weak black tea. Now, I find black coffee really useful as a post-pradial stimulant, but only about one espresso per month. Now it's mostly green tea, some black, never milk, and I like it very weak!

A friend who works at Starbucks gave us a sample that smelled so good I couldn't help but try it .. oh, my .. it had been so long since I had a strong coffee, I was buzzed a quarter way through the cup! I think I'll return to my slow and gentle caffeine delivery system, thank you.

Where i live in North West London there is a wealth of coffee shops Cafe Nero is my favorite Nothing better to spend abit of free time there with a latte and agood murder mystery

I find coffee monumentally disappointing. It smells like it ought to be delicious, but it isn't. It really isn't. I think it's safe to say that I hate coffee. Long live tea!

i like the flavor and variety of tea more than coffee, but drinking it makes me jittery and horribly hungry when I do not want to eat anything because, in my case, I find I cannot mix food and caffeine or alchohal. Black brewed coffee, on the other hand will let me write (my profession) for hours. It seems obvious to me that well-balanced coffee (not instant and not bustello and other such which are lopsided in favor of caffeine and make me jittery as tea without food does) includes something to make one feel content and surpress the appetite.

yerba mate -- which i love for the haylike aroma (like yomogi rice cake) -- seems to be between tea and coffee in respect to repressing the appetite but sometimes makes me slightly nauseous (has any yerba matte been tainted by herbicides?).

my guess is we might do better to drink something with cocaine in it like the original cola rather than caffeine -- it seems to be milder on the digestive system -- be that as it may.

after two or three hours on coffee, i nurse a half glass of red wine for an hour and that is when the writing goes most beautifully --- i cannot see following tea with wine . . .

Love yerba mate - I just discovered it and am weaning myself off of coffee. I agree that it does leave you jittery and hungry, while yerba mate is very mild and gives you just the right amount of energy.

>54 audreyl1969:

Congratulations on trying to lose the coffee addiction - for such it is, in my experience. I over-indulged as a student, and then had to endure withdrawal headaches. Now, if ever I do have coffee, it really gives a buzz. Very useful in a post-lunch business meeting, when everyone else is starting to flag!

Thanks for the locating info on Coffeehouse!

Well, maybe it's just my poly sci background, but there is an old rule of politics--strong concentrated interests usually defeat diffuse interests.

So even if there are more coffee drinkers out there, tea drinkers tend to band together.

I prefer tea, but I do like both. I'm a shameless latte/white-mocha/crap-loads-of-cream-and-sweetener coffee drinker when I'm not have tea. But tea is always there for me to help me relax when I need it. :)

Tea is my first love, and there's a soothing, caring-ness to the ritual of making it, even if it's as simple as filling the kettle, boiling the spring water (or almost boiling in the case of green or white teas) filling the infuser, choosing a favorite mug that suits that particular tea or mood, carefully pouring the hot water into the mug around the infuser, savoring the aroma while it steeps and then drinking it slowly.

It's only recently that I've learned to like coffee, and it took Creole style, coffee and chickory blend to do that. A little demerara sugar and heavy cream . . . but as much as I do like it, it lacks the emotional satisfaction of my tea.