Atheists start their own megachurch

http://admin.alternet.org/belief/atheism-starts-its-own-megachurch-it-religion-n...

It sounds a bit Elmer Gantryish to me, but, as others have said, I do like the singing.

I would love an opportunity to meet other atheists. It's a weird life when everyone around me is neurotic.

I would suggest, as a tongue-in-cheek nod to the bad image some people have of atheists, serving a cake that looks like a baby, such as the unintentionally macabre treats served at baby showers.



However, doubtless the majority of folks would miss the humor.

Mmm. I prefer my babies a bit more well done.

?

Jesse_wiedinmyer, I assume that's from an actual baby shower. I laughed hard. Thank you.

I've seen versions before that have oozing jelly centers, but...

In America, I can understand the need for some kind of group whereby atheists can get together, since they seem to be very much in the minority and probably could do with the feelling of support and acceptance provided by this kind of thing, but I am somewhat baffled by a recent call by the humanist group in my home town for a 'church'. Here in the UK very few people give much of a toss about what others believe and even a majority of Christians do not feel any need to congregate, preferring to do their worship in private (and, presumably, keep Sundays free for the much more serious deification of 22 men kicking a ball around a muddy field).

Just as I don't need to set up an organisation to confirm or bolster my lack of belief in fairies, I don't really understand the thinking behind the idea of encouraging atheists to be part of yet another sect devoted to discussing a god or the lack of one. In fact, taking into account the ever-dwindling numbers who attend the conventional kind of church, I wonder if we're in danger of ending up with believers staying at home and atheists being the ones who waste their weekends in this way.

I find people of a superstitious mindset inefficient and neurotic. I assume other atheists aren't these things. I would love to see what happens when atheists band together to work for the benefit of each other. I dream of a green technological communal society. I imagine we would design free energy systems and highly productive farming methods. I think we would help each other savor the moments with entertainment and brainstorming. I know small utopias form with few people involved. I imagine a large group of people dedicated to making the most of life would create a wonderful environment.

>9 androidlove: I assume other atheists aren't these things.

That's a big assumption. Religious people don't have the monopoly on neurosis. And atheists don't have the monopoly on rationality.

I dream of a green technological communal society.

The impulse to create an isolated "perfect" society crosses all faiths and lack thereof. I think it is a tribal impulse.

I would find this totally unnecessary because I don't enjoy joining any kind of group that requires attendance at meetings.

>9 androidlove: I was very productive with the atheists I knew in college. However, they seemed to be content to be loners. One of them told me there were so few of us, he felt like we all needed to split up to change the world. I've had to move around. I'll admit, it's been an adventure meeting all those confused people out there. Logic is like a magic trick to them. However, the ups and downs of my interactions can't outweigh my loneliness. I would also hope a group would be a better example. I'm not wising for an isolated group. I wish for my vision of utopia to be a world wide reality. Frankly, I see it as irresponsible to not try to achieve it.

I assume you're an atheist, southernbooklady. What have you seen in your mind that would lead to neurosis? In my younger mind, it was ignoring any harmful character traits of the women I let close to me. I had to lie to myself, and thus lost my mind.

I assume you're an atheist, southernbooklady.

I am. Of the uncompromising Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris sort. What people call "New Atheist" or "militant atheist." Some people have suggested I'm a nihilist. If so, I'm a happy one.

What have you seen in your mind that would lead to neurosis?

Any position, taken to extremes, can become a neurosis. I'm no psychologist, but I am aware that everyone has their own collection of behaviors, some of which are self-destructive. It's a human thing, not a religious/nonreligious thing.

>13 southernbooklady: What I'm asking is, how have you lied to yourself?

"It's a human thing, not a religious/nonreligious thing."
(How does one italicize a quote?)

My conclusion is that the religious make a habit of lying to their selves.

But yea, there are the evil atheists like those who ran TBN. And I thought I had a raging libido.

Then there's an atheist preacher I met who thought he could have a positive impact as a Christian youth leader.

>14 androidlove: My conclusion is that the religious make a habit of lying to their selves.

And the implication in that statement is that non-religious people don't. That's not a safe assumption. It would be better to say...as Richard Dawkins has, I believe...that religious people make a habit of lying to themselves about religion.

how have you lied to yourself?

Everyone has their own idea of who they are, including me. And everyone's notion of who they are is based on things that may or may not be true to greater or lesser degrees. Me? I like to think I'm kind and sympathetic, smart and productive. But I lose my temper and get impatient, misunderstand things and am perfectly capable of blowing off work to watch a marathon session of Doctor Who reruns.

Lies are how we live with ourselves.

>16 southernbooklady: I haven't read Dawkins. I'm just telling you what I've observed. It is more what I know than what I believe. I know that the the religious are comfortable with a lie, because they have to lie to themselves to be religious. What I would hope, is that atheists aren't comfortable with lying to themselves. However, you seem to be saying that you're not comfortable unless you're lying to yourself. Is that correct?

>17 androidlove: I'm just telling you what I've observed. It is more what I know than what I believe.

A rationalist would tell you that anecdotal evidence is the least convincing evidence there is. Every devout person on the planet will tell you that the existence of God is something they know, not something they simply believe,. There is really no qualitative difference between your statement of personal experience and another's personal experience of God.

However, you seem to be saying that you're not comfortable unless you're lying to yourself. Is that correct?

Well that's an interesting spin on it.

What I was saying is that ALL people construct ideal images of themselves. But those images don't always match how others regard us.

In any case, I stand by my original statement: athiests don't have a monopoly on rationality, and religious people don't have a monopoly on "lying." Rationality and irrationality just exist in all of us in various ratios, just like aggression, compassion, humor, stubbornness, etc.

I know there is no FSM. Now, do you see where I'm coming from?

I'm very aware of my capabilities and shortcomings. I know I have an accurate image of myself, as that's all I consider.

I'm now wondering if those preachers I call "evil atheists" actually think they're serving an evil deity. Are corrupt politicians believing the same?

BTW, The Doctor is all over Netflix. I enjoy the emotional romp, but I prefer all Star Trek except Enterprise. I just can't get the girls at my place to watch Star Trek with me.

I know there is no FSM. Now, do you see where I'm coming from?

Not really.

I have no reason to think there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster. I also have no reason to think that there is a supernatural entity called God directing the universe.

I also have no reason to think that when my neighbor credits her daughter's cancer going into remission to God's intervention rather than her chemotherapy, she has somehow demonstrated that she can't think or behave rationally.

I prefer all Star Trek except Enterprise

I quite liked Enterprise. But I'm a purist...I grew up on the original series, and I never quite forgave the "next generation" for replacing the bridge Science Officer with a bridge Psychologist. Plus...that holodeck...what a cop out!

Atheists, like theists, are human beings. There's no reason to presume some fundamental difference between them, except where religion is concerned.

Which means that we are all prone to error, prone to lying both to ourselves and others, prone to take advantage of others; and capable of selfless acts of altruism and good.

And simply because you don't believe in a Higher Power is no reason to assume that someone who does is either lying or incapable of rational thought. They may be wrong; but that's something different.

The holodeck would be the last invention mankind ever built.

Well, I obviously think differently. So, now I'm curious to know the ways atheists here lie to themselves.

I'm curious as to why you think you're not a human being.

>23 BruceCoulson: LOL Really? I can't avoid being a homo sapien. What else would I be? LOL

Oh man, I am still laughing.

>21 BruceCoulson: And simply because you don't believe in a Higher Power is no reason to assume that someone who does is either lying or incapable of rational thought. They may be wrong; but that's something different.

I'd like to see an atheistic theory of irrationality and rationality.

22 androidlove - Look up cognitive dissonance, cognitive biases, wishful thinking, imposter syndrome...Anyone who says they never lie to themself is, in fact, lying to themself.

bluesalamanders, what are you lying to yourself about?

Often you don't realize you're lying to yourself about something until someone points it out to you or an incident happens that makes it starkly clear.

And even then, cognitive dissonance often causes you to continue the lie because it is something you Know, and it is Truth. I have no idea what you or bluesalamanders do or believe that is an element of wishful thinking or biases.

One fairly common one that I was reading about recently is the idea that with just a bit more hard work or whatever, you, too, can become wealthy, though you're paycheck-to-paycheck right now. Statistically, that is nearly impossible, and so the whole bootstraps thing is a myth, a lie we tell ourselves.

Also, a bias study I read about today (one of the ones that I think Harvard does?) shows that Americans tend to think of themselves as much less racist than they really are, and one example is that the general image of "an American" is a white person and people of Asian decent are far more likely to be thought "foreign". (This doesn't hold true for everyone, of course, but was the case for 60% of the people in the study.)

These two things have nothing to do with religious beliefs.

This is ridiculous. I call troll.

keristars, so nice to meet you.

>29 bluesalamanders: I told you how I have lied to myself. I was even hypnotized once. But, that is a long story and may come off as unbelievable. At the very least, it's a little embarrassing. So, I can understand why my question makes you uncomfortable enough to call me a name.

Anyone for Holiday services?
http://www.alternet.org/belief/merry-atheist-christmas-londons-atheist-church-go...

"One of the most universal pieces of advice from across cultures and eras is that we are all hypocrites, and in our condemnation of others’ hypocrisy we only compound our own. Social psychologists have recently isolated the mechanisms that make us blind to the logs in our own eyes. The moral implications of these findings are disturbing; indeed, they challenge our greatest moral certainties. But the implications can be liberating, too, freeing you from destructive moralism and divisive self-righteousness."

Haidt, Jonathan (2006-12-26). The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom (p. 60). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

"Emily Pronin at Princeton and Lee Ross at Stanford have tried to help people overcome their self-serving biases, but they encounter a certain resistance.
Pronin and Ross trace this resistance to a phenomenon they call “naive realism”: Each of us thinks we see the world directly, as it really is. We further believe that the facts as we see them are there for all to see, therefore others should agree with us. If they don’t agree, it follows either that they have not yet been exposed to the relevant facts or else that they are blinded by their interests and ideologies."

Haidt, Jonathan (2006-12-26). The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom (p. 71). Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

Well, I obviously think differently. So, now I'm curious to know the ways atheists here lie to themselves.

Anyone who has done any therapy at all knows that we ALL lie to ourselves.

People buy golf magazines because they think it will help them be a better golfer. The go on diets they have on intention of staying on. They get into relationships that are unhealthy and lie about how bad they are. They lie about their drinking habits. Polls consistently show that people lie about how often they vote, and they really do believe they voted as often as they say they do.

People to themselves about their lovers, their children, they own abilities, their own morality, their enemies, their friends...the list is endless.

>35 Arctic-Stranger: Are you sure you're not lying to yourself about all that?

>36 jbbarret: Well, I was asking for a confession.