Queries for dutch members

I'll start with one on pronounciation which drives me nutz! I have visited Amsterdam especially quite a lot in recent years, but do only have a few words of dutch (ordering a coffee and train ticket etc). However I did begin a few lessons before having to give them up temporarily due to a family emergency, and I picked up what I thought was good pronounciation - dutch national as a tutor. So am surprised to find even dutch people pronouncing VINCENT VAN GOGH as it is spelt. From what I have learned I would have thought it was pronounced FINCENT FAN HHOGH. Can anyone confirm one way or the other?

Dank u Weil

I can't tell what you mean with "as it is spelt". "van Gogh" does not look like it has any natural pronunciation in English. It does have one in Dutch, which sounds as if you have something stuck in your throat.

Were these people speaking English? It can be hard to switch languages in mid-sentence. My own name sounds quite different in English than in Dutch, but it's the same name.

Vincent is pronounced as it is in English, only "cent" is pronounced like the English word scent.

As I am Dutch, I thought I might be able to help with the questions regarding the pronounciation of 'Vincent van Gogh'. The 'Vincent' is pronounced much the same as in English, 'van' is pronounced with a short 'a' and 'Gogh' is indeed pronounced like you have something stuck in your throat. However, when speaking English or talking to tourists, people will often say 'Gho' instead of 'Gogh', as this is easier non-Dutch speakers to understand.

Please take into account that Dutch language pronunciation has got what is called "assimiliation"--i.e. : in correct Dutch language pronunciation ("AN" or "Algemeen Nederlands"), the pronounciation of e.g. the "van" part of "Van Gogh" depends on what is preceeding.

As a matter of fact, though correct pronunciation of (isolated) "Van Gogh" is (SAMPA notation) [vAn 'GOx], when adding the first name, Vincent (['vInsEnt]), the combination "Vincent van Gogh" turns into: ['vInsEnt fAn 'GOx]--i.e. : the "v" of "van", that was pronounced [v], is turned into [f] now, because of the preceeding [t].

Explication is (in Dutch) :
Onder invloed van de voorafgaande stemloze /t/, wijzigt, door zgn. progressieve assimilatie, de navolgende stemhebbende /v/ in de aanverwante stemloze /f/.

Keep in mind that this adaptation by sounds influencing the one the other can be forward direction--as in the ['vInsEnt fAn 'GOx] example--as well as backward direction, as e.g. with the compound word "handdoek" (en: towel), which is a compound of "hand" (en: hand) [hAnt] and "doek" (en: cloth) [duk], resulting in handdoek ['hAnduk]. The /t/ sound is gone !

The reason for all of this is that, in Dutch, a voiced and a voiceless consonant cannot appear the one immediately next to the other--we cannot pronounce that. (*) Therefore, either both of them will become voiced, either both of them will become voiceless.

(*) Compare this to German language pronunciation, that has got comparable problems, though a different solution in this matter. In German and German pronunciation, the fluid sound stream is halted and restarted, thus separating both sounds indeed. In Dutch however, the sound stream is continuing in a fluent way, without any hesitation nor halts. This necessitates the adaptation of some sounds, as is the case with assimilation.

If you want some more and/or a more thorough explication in this matter, please feel invited to ask. You are welcome.

Graag gedaan.

boekerij.