Imposition

Who is "they"?

Perhaps Tom could tell us, though, if it would do him any injury should his neighbor say that he too must believe in the same twenty gods (or no god), that his pocket is going to be picked to support activities of those believers, and that they'll break his legs if he doesn't go along.

Of course; because if they can force you to act 'morally', then your mind may follow. And even if it doesn't, you're not setting a bad example for their children. (Will no one think of the children?)

>4 hawkwinds: My understanding was that it was being reviewed in the opposite direction. We're more likely to get relaxed Sunday laws with the same opening hours as the rest of the week. It won't be getting stricter. I'm not sure if 24hr will now stretch across Sundays too, but anything to help big business.

For me the argument isn't so much about observing religion on a Sunday, but about people's right to actually have a weekend. If you want to shop on Sunday, great, but please think about those who would love to have a lie in, see their family or do things around the house, but can't because they're forced to go to work.

A lot of good people fought for the right to have proper rest breaks and a work-life balance, and that's being eroded.

>8 IanFryer:

Who says that day has to be Sunday, though? Maybe some people want Saturday off, or Friday. I know of at least one company in the US that previously had all their stores closed on Sunday, because of the "people deserve a day to spend with their families" reasoning. Someone politely pointed out to them that, for instance, Jewish employees might prefer to work on Sunday and have Saturday off, or Muslim employees might want Friday off, and they quietly switched to having their stores open seven days a week. I don't think anyone should be forced to work seven days a week, or stores should be forced to be open seven days, but if someone wants to be open Sunday and closed any other day, that ought to be an option.

>9 lorax: if someone wants to be open Sunday and closed any other day, that ought to be an option.

To be sure, and many (most?) small retailers in my area do just that. Larger businesses that are open 7-days-a-week, though, tend to miserably jerk around the employee schedules, especially for lower-paid workers.

I think that if businesses are allowed to be open seven days a week then each employee ought by law to have one day a week that s/he has chosen that they can't be scheduled for. If s/he prefers to work 7/7, fine.

>11 hawkwinds:

The problem isn't so much the number of hours, as their irregularity, and scheduling on short notice.

Also, again, it's not usually an issue with "a guy" and "his store."

>10 paradoxosalpha:, >11 hawkwinds:

"Jerking around the employee schedules" rarely means "making people work seven days a week"; it's more likely to mean "randomly moving around their hours so they don't have a consistent day off, or the same shifts from one week to the next, making it difficult to schedule another job or childcare or anything else."

Currently one of the major issues for US labor is attempting to put some limits on the practice of last-minute schedule changes. This is neither here nor there to the question of "should all businesses be required to be closed on Sundays".

"Jerking around the employee schedules" is also an issue - normally called "Zero hour contracts"* about which there's also been quite a bit of fuss. However not at all related to increased opening hours special days off for everyone or religion.

*You're employed by a firm. But you don't have any set hours. You have to be available to work when they want you, but have no guarantees of any set hours (or indeed any hours) for any given week. Some of them even prevent you from holding other jobs. Very good for business, reduces unnecessary staff costs and overhead, sort good for people who want a bit of part time work now and again and aren't that fussed if it doesn't happen, absolutely desperate for those on the margins who need a job/any job, but don't get reliable income. (Oh and good for politicians because you count as employed and hence make the national economy figures look better.)

There is an rather intense debate about all shops being allowed to be open for business on sundays here in Norway now. The government wants it, the church is against because it is their holy day, the workers are against because they want sunday off, the shop owners are against because their fear increased labour cost for to little increase in sales and most of the population is against it. The government seems intent on pushing it through whatever happens.

I remember when I was living in upstate New York, the area I was in decided to relax the blue laws so that liquor stores could only be open 6 days a week, but without specifying the days. All the Jewish-owned stores promptly closed on Saturday and opened on Sunday, whereas before they had been closed both days. I believe they were pretty happy with the outcome.

I still think mandating a business' hours is ridiculous, but at least now it's fair.

>18 white-van-man:

Where does the problem lie with total deregulation to enable anyone to do whatever they like on Sunday? If a firm wants you to work on (say) Thursdays and you don't want to, don't take the job.

I think that the "Eliminate all laws to protect the rights of workers" discussion this is edging toward is probably better suited for Pro and Con, where I will not follow it.

>19 lorax: I think that the "Eliminate all laws to protect the rights of workers" discussion this is edging toward is probably better suited for Pro and Con, where I will not follow it.

Amen to that!
;-)

Discussions are easily hijacked on LT -- Look! Shiny object!

Lived in FL most of my life and in Miami-Dade for most of that time. Everything's open all the time. Saints and sinners can choose to rub elbows in the aisles of churches and stores, whenever. There's no conflict. It's nice to live in the environs of a richly multi-cultural city. We all just got along.

Now I'm in rural north GA where everything rolls up by 9 or 10PM. There are more churches than gas stations in this part of the world. One can drive 30 mi to find the rare 24-hr. drug store. Forget it if you run out of milk and the baby's crying at 2AM. No 7-11s because (I think) they stay open too late; no 24 hr Publix or other major grocery store open all night. There's something called Dollar General, in which I've never been, so have no idea what they sell. Anyway, they close up shop like the rest.

Some counties are dry, yet sell beer and wine in the grocery store. I know places where they won't sell any alcoholic beverage on a Sunday, even when they're stocked. So confusing as the counties are tiny and before you know it, you're in a different one.

I live in the middle of nowhere, yet they film two TV shows (Walking Dead, Rectify) that I know of and various movies here in the sticks. I thought maybe they were shutting down our whole village for a shoot when I first went out on a Sunday, shortly after moving here last fall. Ghost town. In Miami we had plenty of filming all the time and nothing shut down, except the one road we had to get from the edge of the Everglades where we lived out to civilization. That happened any day of the week. But it's not the production units that make everything go blank here in the Bible Thumper Belt. It's the blue laws that aren't consistent from one burg to the next. Truth stranger than fiction.

>8 IanFryer: For me the argument isn't so much about observing religion on a Sunday, but about people's right to actually have a weekend.

If you gave people a weekend, at least Jewish people wouldn't have a disadvantage versus their Christian neighbors. One aspect of religious privilege is your holidays come as days off for free, and in some place, your Sabbath as well.

Besides which, many people don't want to have a day off where all shopping is closed. If you have two days off, and one of them everyone has off, then the other may get very hectic.

>23 white-van-man:

Heh, heh. I've come to realize that folks in this neck of the woods just don't party to the extent my Latino, Hispanic, and Caribbean neighbors did back home. When the fiesta gets going at 11PM and lasts the entire weekend, party-givers can run out of supplies.

There is no loud salsa, nor mariachi, nor Afro-Rican, nor reggae band playing into the dawn hours here. (sigh)

*Change is good for families – Sundays are becoming a family shopping day.*

Not if they are stuck in work and find it hard to plan a day off with their partner or family because each is given a different rest day by their employer.

I spent years working *every* weekend, with days off during the week. Arranging to do things during the weekend with friends was a nightmare and eventually they just stopped asking.

Also - Blimey, are places still doing half-day closing? That's very unusual now. Do you mind me asking where that is?

One of my friend's working hours are completely unpredictable - to me, at least. It would be impossible to meet as a group if several of us were working on such a schedule.

Btw., I know of a combined beverage store / post office in Germany that is closed on Monday and on Wednesday afternoon.

>30 hawkwinds: No, according to the consensus of this thread they are free to have a day off on any day they want. Being self-employed, they can actually do it.

Also, it's a small village, people are happy to have some local shops at all, even if they are not open all the time.

The pace of things is a bit different in Germany, especially in rural areas. Lorries aren't allowed on the roads between Friday evening and Sunday evening. Funnily enough their economy is doing fine without having to resort to everything being open 24-7

I can't imagine Italians taking to that sort of law being imposed either. The law-abiding Swiss would love it!

I work two jobs, and between them I haven't had a day off in more than a month, and maybe less than ten total in the past year. The idea of having a day where I had no choice but to lounge around the house reading and doing laundry because there was nowhere to go sounds heavenly. Though, if it came to pass, I'm sure I'd be bothered that I couldn't order a pizza.

Part of the problem is that many of these laws were made when it wasn't a problem that shops were only open during regular business hours. Why not? Because there was probably a person in your household who could do the shopping during those times because she didn't work (well, if you were middle- to upper-class). So the people who made these laws (middle-aged white men) just didn't see the problem with stores being closed evenings and weekends.