Bookmooch becoming less international

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Bookmooch becoming less international

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1Tomleesteenboek
Nov 4, 2009, 12:36 pm

Bookmooch is a great site, but I've been feeling a bit let down by some of the users lately.

The thing is: I'm Belgian, and there don't seem to many books in Belgium that I'd like. So on my 160-books wishlist there are right now more than ten books available... but none of them are willing to send to Belgium.

I know, the postage is expensive, and if you're a regular moocher it can add up if you send all the way across the Atlantic. It's just a bit sad, because it makes a great idea less great. I keep adding books to my wishlist on my daily basis, but every book that at first seems to be available turns out to be not.

Sure, things have also to do with taste (I have quite a specific style i want to read).
I'm an editor at a belgian computer magazine, so I made a workshop on Bookmooch, in the hope that people would use this project...don't know if it helped (:

Anyway, I wanted to share this, maybe start a discussion. BookMooch is the only International book swap-site I know.

Next to that.. is there a way to export my wishlist in BookMooch, so i can print it and take it to local second hand shops?

2Spinifex
Nov 4, 2009, 12:45 pm

I'm in France, and 90% of the books I mooch come from overseas (so I need to send a lot overseas too, to get points to mooch overseas).

So I understand your frustration - but I must say I'm also amazed by the prohibitive prices of the US postal service, and I can't swear I'd send internationally if I lived in America (or I'd limit my sendings, which I don't in France, as postal rates are rather cheap).

My only advice is to ask here on the angel thread for the books you want, as there are great people there willing to angel over the Atlantic.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/75379

3atimco
Nov 4, 2009, 12:51 pm

I haven't noticed this trend, but then, I'm in the U.S.

Don't forget it works both ways! I have some books I would like to mooch that people in other countries won't send to me. When there is one that I really can't live without, I use the angel system. Have you ever tried that, Tombleweed?

The angel system works like this. Say the book you want is in the U.S. but the owner won't send outside the country. You request a U.S. angel in the thread here in this group and they mooch the book that you want. When they get it, they re-list it for you and send it off to you. It works pretty well. Maybe it will help you get some of those books that are available on your wishlist! :)

4freddlerabbit
Nov 4, 2009, 12:52 pm

Certainly ask on the Angel thread - I'm a US Angel and may be able to help you out some (though I may be running low on credits initially). Also, as US Angel, sometimes I will message someone in another country who lists as being unwilling to send internationally with an offer to help alleviate the cost of postage - I don't know if that's an option for you (I use Paypal), but if it's a cost issue, it may still be cheaper than buying new and may bring the person around.

5markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 12:55 pm

Bookmooch is not becoming less international overall, but it will likely always be a challenge to build membership in smaller nations where BM gets no press..

But your workshops could help, as there are many examples of members bringing people to BM through such efforts.

Postal rates will probably continue to increase in every country, so the angel network (newly revitalized :) will probably continue to expand.

6LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 1:23 pm

#5

Oh, yes, that's the ticket, blame "the press" in smaller nations. It's the fault of Belgians that most Americans won't mail to them.

#1

I've thought about this myself, Tombleweed, and I know other international Moochers did (there are testimonies aplenty on the BM site, I direct you especially to the responses to some survey--from last June I think, where it was often noted the small international contingent isn't encouraged adequately to use BM. I've suggested before that allowing (everybody) a greater range of choices in mailing destinations (instead of merely two--Local or International) might help; I'll suggest it again.

Mark, again, does anyone at BM even acknowledge a different model might work better for Europe or Asia than for the US? You have comments exactly of this nature on your site. Right now someone in Slovenia or Belgium who can afford to mail to Hungary or Holland but not to China has no option except to mail locally. It's dumb.

Yeah, I know, angels, nice but inadequate. It wouldn't encourage me to join, and probably not most others. It can't be a large-scale solution. Why not implement a simple, system-wide change instead of relying on individual good will of a tiny minority?

7markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 1:34 pm

Lola,

I wrote lack of press explains why there are 120 odd members in Belgium for instance, not in reference to people mailing books there.

Do keep in mind that there many challenges in trying to trade (anything) internationally, and this largely explains why the other major sites are not even trying to do this.

The Angels are not a tiny minority by any means, and future site upgrades will likley greatly expand the system.

We all like the idea of regional shipping options, but there are reasons that this will be hard to implement as a shipping option in the system. For now, it works quite well to us 'ask' and then add a status not with regional limits. So I'm not sure why you think regional shipping is not an options as many hundreds of members are currently doing so. i.e. 'only within europe' or 'within N.A.'

8LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 1:40 pm

So I'm not sure why you think regional shipping is not an options as many hundreds of members are currently doing so. i.e. 'only within europe' or 'within N.A.'

Because the last time we discussed this you told me I wouldn't be allowed to restrict my mailing to regions of my choice. Has something changed, or are we still simply encouraged to be sneaky and use the "can't ship to you, it's too expensive" excuse?

The latter is not acceptable. I don't want to lie to people, and I don't want to deal with time-wasting status checking stuff either. I'd like to be able to list regions where I send on my profile and have things clear from the get-go.

9Tomleesteenboek
Nov 4, 2009, 1:42 pm

Aha, I'll Try the Angel thing (i had read about it before, but It seems that I didn't make the connection of using that system to solve this 'problem')

10Tomleesteenboek
Nov 4, 2009, 1:46 pm

Lola: I don't really get what you're trying to say. If i mail to another country than Belgium it's international..or is that not what you're trying to say?

11markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 1:51 pm

Lola,

Members have always been encouraged to limit shipping to their country, or within a broader region, on the grounds of cost.

You will find a great number that do just this and always have. Many US/Canadian members only ship within NA, many Europeans only within Europe, Asians within Asia, etc...

Are you referring to the prohibition on rejecting/denying requests based on the other member's account settings (such as their own shipping option at the moment, as this does change)?

Yes, it is possible to be dishonest and claim that one is rejecting due to high cost of shipping and actually have some other motive, such as disliking the member making the request due to ther account settings or other reasons, but any pattern of doing so would become clear in time.

12atimco
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 1:52 pm

The problem with being able to officially pick and choose regions where you will send books is that people may abuse it and choose not to send to certain regions for reasons other than shipping costs. I don't like the politics of XX region; therefore I won't send any books there. I can now pick and choose with system sanction; it's all programmed and I won't have to actually *talk* to anyone from my unfavorite regions.

I bet if this was implemented and people started getting their mooches rejected because they weren't in the right region, there would be bigger problems than what we have currently. Just a thought.

13markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 1:59 pm

That is one of many problems that came up, true Wisewoman.

I now recall our series of conversations Lola (I thought you were one of the other BM Lola's, sorry). You wished to join for the purpose of sending books only to people you thought needed them most (with a specific list of countries and regions within countries, and meeting certain demographic profiles), and when we explained that this is not how Bookmooch works, you decided not to participate, is that correct?

14infiniteletters
Nov 4, 2009, 2:08 pm

Since the Export question seems to have gotten missed,
the page linked below will show your entire wishlist, tombleweed. You could copy/paste into a text editor or spreadsheet of choice to lower the font size.
http://bookmooch.com/wishlist/tombleweed/9999/

15SunnyLola
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 2:23 pm

#2 I just got a rejection from a member in France who said she was told it would cost 50 euros to send a book to me in Canada.
ETA one of the other BM lolas :-)

16LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 2:23 pm

#12

This has been discussed, I forget what thread. So what if somebody picks and chooses based on politics and not economics? Why is it any concern of yours? People can already discriminate for whatever reason they are willing to lie about.

Besides, if you want to talk lack of fairness, look at the current system, utterly dominated, conditioned by and geared to favour Americans--that is by no means "fair" for an international enterprise.

#13

I would prefer to send books in English where they are less readily available, yes. I am not making any assumptions about who "needs" books the most, I'm simply looking to expand the net to where something common and easily obtainable in, say, California isn't common and easily obtainable.

17markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 2:42 pm

I hope you try Bookmooch sometime Lola, you seem to have a lot of ideas about the site that are off-base, and I think If you try trading some books you might be surprised...

It is really to difficult for us to monitor tens of thousands of members and determine which reasons for rejecting might be reasonable and which not. Perhaps your political and economic ideas of who to send conflict with other.. So the cost of sending is the only reason allowed to limit who might mooch, I think most in the community see the wisdom in this.

Bookmooch members are exceedingly honest, contrary to your assumptions that many would lie... This has not proven to be the case at all.

BM is 2/3 US members, as it is hosted and run in the states. The owner strives to make the site international and this is an evolving process. Perhaps consider BM in realtion to other real-word trading sites, and realize that it is a work in progress.

And do consider giving the site a try.

18atimco
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 2:44 pm

So what if somebody picks and chooses based on politics and not economics? Why is it any concern of yours?

It isn't my concern, it's John's. And as it's his site — and we are his guests — I'd say it's legitimate.

There is a difference between having to lie in order to discriminate and having your personal discriminatory preferences catered to by the system.

Besides, if you want to talk lack of fairness, look at the current system, utterly dominated, conditioned by and geared to favour Americans--that is by no means "fair" for an international enterprise.

I don't know about this. It isn't anyone's fault that there tend to be more Americans on BM. I don't think the system is geared for our benefit over that of others. We don't get any more points than anyone else for sending internationally. There are no special built-in perks for being a U.S. moocher.

Lola, it just doesn't sound like BM is for you. It's too bad, because I don't think there even *are* any other international book-swap sites. At least not on this scale.

19maryjanemanolos
Nov 4, 2009, 2:44 pm

Lola- sounds like you're pretty discriminatory yourself against Americans and the bookmooch system in general, so why don't you go to another book mooching site more appropriate for your needs and stop being so rude to people on this thread?

20Spinifex
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 3:02 pm

15: I just got a rejection from a member in France who said she was told it would cost 50 euros to send a book to me in Canada.

That's bullshit (or the postal worker tried to sell an over-the-top product, also possible). If I wanted to send you a 5kg pack of books, it would cost around 14€.

Want me to try to angel?

21LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 2:49 pm

#17

I experimented a little a while ago, but right now it doesn't answer.

BM is 2/3 US members

Right, and the remaining third is mostly UK-ers.

I hope at least someone will cotton up to the need to regard Europe as one region soon.

22markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 2:56 pm

Hi Lola,

I recall that you had never traded any books (unless you had more than one account?).

And that I made about a dozen posts/or sent emails trying to explain the site...although you did persist in wanting to select very specific groups to send books to.

No, the remianing 2/3rd is not all the UK. There are over 90 countires with at least a few members, although the major four english speaking nations: US, Canada, UK, Aust, total membership of 88%/89% -- as the books traded are mainly in english, this will likely always remain so.

There are many hundreds of active members in english-oriented regions in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, etc.... And these numbers continue to grow.

If you read my notes above, you will find many do already send only within Europe and this works quite well, as you would see if you cared to try the system.

23atimco
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 3:01 pm

And that I made about a dozen posts/or sent emails trying to explain the site...although you did persist in wanting to select very specific groups to send books to.

Maybe the rule should work both ways; if you only want to send to a specific group, you have no right to mooch from anyone outside that group. I doubt that would appeal to very many people! But it's not right to expect to send books exclusively but mooch them inclusively (not that that is what Lola wanted to do; just musing here).

24McCoog40
Nov 4, 2009, 3:01 pm

I set my account to not send internationally, solely becuase of the cost, but i think that if someone e-mailed and asked if I would send, I probably would. You could try to jsut e-mail them and ask if they'll reconsider, can't hurt to try!

25LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 3:25 pm

#18

There is a difference between having to lie in order to discriminate and having your personal discriminatory preferences catered to by the system.

Well, no, the current system is already "catering" to the possibility to lie, for whatever reason. I'm surprised at the idea that political discrimination would be the first reason anyone would think of if it were possible to choose regions to send to. Look up the comments to that BM survey from non-American moochers to see what their concerns are.

I don't know about this. It isn't anyone's fault that there tend to be more Americans on BM. I don't think the system is geared for our benefit over that of others. We don't get any more points than anyone else for sending internationally. There are no special built-in perks for being a U.S. moocher.

Well, it's very, very easy to know about this. Just take a look at enough accounts on BM. You have to think statistically. Imagine you're a moocher in Kuala Lumpur, Warsaw or Bhutan. How many out of, say, 10 or 20 or 30 moochers randomly selected would send to you? How many based in different countries? Sadly, while numerically most present, Americans statistically send the least internationally. Mark never did provide the stats I enquired about (perhaps he doesn't have them), but it's possible to get some idea of the situation from the raw data on BM. I did it after the last discussion, and the results were disappointing.

North America is a book sink--most books in the BM system end up in North America. The system right now favours Americans disproportionately because everyone who sends internationally HAS to send to this already disproportionately present region. I listed about ten books of average "ordinariness" on BM, and all of those that were present on wishlists (8 out of 10) were wishlisted predominantly, almost entirely, or first, by Americans. I'm mentioning this to illustrate the situation, it's not a statistical study. For example, for one book, there was a single Canadian and a single Algerian requester; I e-mailed the Algerian (this is against BM rules, I understand), but the account was probably abandoned, I never heard from the person nor was there activity months later.

Now, anything may be the case in any individual event, but again, if you look at the numbers, it is clear that the book sink situation is self-reinforcing, leading to fewer and fewer books AND members outside the US.

Plenty of people noticed this before me. I think BM sort of acknowledged the need to help some, hence the extra effort in angelling, for instance. But a much simpler and more efficient move would be to encourage non-US members by allowing the region-choice option, say. If you have four members in Slovakia and they are mostly able to send to neighbouring countries, why not allow that?

26LolaWalser
Nov 4, 2009, 3:30 pm

#22

No, the remianing 2/3rd is not all the UK.

Lol, Mark, as I said: MOST of your third third of members ARE in UK!

And too many of your non-Anglo accounts are dormant or abandoned, I hope you aren't including these. I know this is not something you want, but it's something the current situation unfortunately favours.

If BM weren't a great idea, it wouldn't be worth improving!

27ForeignCircus
Nov 4, 2009, 4:03 pm

Lola,
The population of Bhutan is about 680,000 while the population of the US is around 307,000,000 so I hardly think this is a fair comparison. The site is based in the US so most of the members (and therefore the books) are based in the US. BM can encourage folks to send internationally, but some members don't have the money or the interest. Would it be great if they did? Of course it would, but the reality is a lot of people would have to bow out if they were forced to send mail internationally.

As far as I know, if you set your status to "ask first", you can refuse to send to the US if it is cost-prohibitive, but still send to France because it is cheap. It seems like BM just isn't the right fit for you or your book-swapping goals, so perhaps looking for (or even starting) another would be the best way to go.

28atimco
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 4:27 pm

Well, no, the current system is already "catering" to the possibility to lie, for whatever reason.

How so? Lying about your reasons for not sending a book is a personal choice; I don't see how the system encourages it. As Mark said, someone who constantly lies about why they are rejecting mooches will eventually be caught. Their history will make it pretty evident.

I'm surprised at the idea that political discrimination would be the first reason anyone would think of if it were possible to choose regions to send to.

Perhaps it was a bad example to use — but that doesn't invalidate the point that was made.

Imagine you're a moocher in Kuala Lumpur, Warsaw or Bhutan. How many out of, say, 10 or 20 or 30 moochers randomly selected would send to you?

That's the thing about allowing people choices... sometimes they make the choices you don't like. Free will and all that garbage :-P

Sadly, while numerically most present, Americans statistically send the least internationally.

Yeah, that's a pity. However, BM itself encourages international mooching, with the incentive of extra points. The BM admins (and many regular members) are always ready to educate people who don't send internationally, to show them that in many cases it *can* be comparable to domestic shipping as far as cost if you require two mooches (which is a BM-supported practice).

You can't blame BM for people's unwillingness to send internationally. If sending internationally became mandatory, many members would leave altogether... thereby reducing everyone's chances of getting books at least via the Angel network.

The site is definitely not perfect, but I don't see how your solution — of being able to pick and choose the groups to send books to — will help anything. If anything, what you are suggesting will further polarize the members and reduce the number of available books.

The system right now favours Americans disproportionately because everyone who sends internationally HAS to send to this already disproportionately present region. I listed about ten books of average "ordinariness" on BM, and all of those that were present on wishlists (8 out of 10) were wishlisted predominantly, almost entirely, or first, by Americans.

It's a disproportionately bigger nation (statistically, physically, etc.) than many others on BM; why is this a crime? It isn't the system's fault, it's America's fault for being so darn big! That's it; ban Americans from the site altogether :-P

I think BM sort of acknowledged the need to help some, hence the extra effort in angelling, for instance.

And the extra points for sending internationally, and the management's encouragement (not demand!) to do so. Really, there are a lot fewer perks for being an in-my-country-only moocher (like none), and if I'm understanding you properly, that kind of moocher is one of your biggest problems with the site. All the built-in perks are on the side of the international moochers!

If you have four members in Slovakia and they are mostly able to send to neighbouring countries, why not allow that?

It is allowed. The four Slovakian members can set their preferences to "ask first" for international mooches, and if cost is prohibitive they have every right to reject international requests. I think there are one or two countries where it is more expensive to send domestically than it is internationally, and I *think* (though I could be wrong) that it might be okay to reject a domestic mooch based on cost in those countries only.

What do you think about my suggestion above, that if you want to only send to a certain group, you should only be allowed to mooch from that certain group? Let's say you don't want to send to the U.S. at all. To be fair, you should not be allowed to mooch from the U.S. at all either. Is that what you want? How will that help the "book sink" situation you describe?

Perhaps you should try sending and receiving a few books, Lola. You might find that the system works better than it looks from the outside.

If BM weren't a great idea, it wouldn't be worth improving!

I'm glad we agree on something! :-)

29joannasephine
Nov 4, 2009, 4:51 pm

Lola, the simple answer to most of your questions is the same as the one given to Tombleweed, who started this thread: use the Angel network. It isn't difficult. It isn't expensive (it costs you absolutely nothing), and it's a way of making the larger proportion of US members work to the advantage of non-US members – American Angels! There are lots of them, they are extremely happy to help, and it really does solve the “Only Within NA” problems. (And when the Angel network gets better integrated into the system – hint hint – it should be only a couple of extra mouse clicks to make the magic happen.)

30RidgewayGirl
Nov 4, 2009, 4:52 pm

I love BookMooch and really appreciate that I can get books in French and in German, which are prohibitively expensive here. I also love sending books internationally, and happily "angel" books several times a month. So BookMooch suits me. I don't like sites that don't have that option and so choose not to use them.

I'm sure that there's a site out there that would suit your needs, Lola. Have you looked for a non-American or UK based site? I don't agree with every single BookMooch rule, but because I want to participate and consider it a benefit to me, I agree to abide by those rules. And while TPTB are responsive to the needs and wants of the participants, it is a site founded by a single person who gets to call the shots.

The nub of your argument seems to be that you feel BookMooch has too many American and other English speaking members. That's not going to change. There has got to be an EU-based trading site, and if not, maybe your passion to save books from ending up on North American shelves makes you the perfect person to set up the appropriate site. In any case, it beats complaining.

31rkchr
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 5:26 pm

I belong to 2 other swapping sites, both limited to the US. I like BM because of the Intl component, but I like my #1 US site best because it moves so many books. Each website has its own way of doing things, some that I like and some that I don't.

BM could work better, but programming is hard work and I am sure they are trying to do the best they can. (seeing a book available for mooch, but it is really reserved or something is most disappointing !, but I get over it quickly)

LibraryThing has a list of bookswapping websites and a couple other are Intl (but most are limited to 1 country). I suspect they don't have as much traffic as BM, but maybe they do and have features that would suit your needs.

32markwp
Nov 4, 2009, 5:36 pm

I think I'll leave it to the others to respond Lola, as I think we've had this exact conversation twice before and until you at least try using Bookmooch, I don't think there's much more that I can add to what has already been written.

33susiesharp
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 6:48 pm

First off it seems funny to me that someone who isn't a member of BM & sounds like they never will be seems to have so much to say about how BM runs.
Ok that off my chest..
If BM is soooo American how come almost all available books on my wishlist are in other countries and they won't send to the US???

34ForeignCircus
Nov 4, 2009, 6:53 pm

#33: that's just because you have such international tastes ;-)

35TheDivineOomba
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 7:05 pm

I've read through the posts and I think it sums down to this. Lola, you have a specific goal in mind to get books to places where those books aren't readily available. Its an admirable goal, but you are missing the point of BookMooch.

BookMooch is a site that can be almost defined as a large, international used book store where the currency is points, not money. It isn't a charity, or about giving away free books, or exchanging books (defined as: get one book, give one book). Its a site that exchanges credits for certain actions (add books, send books, give feedback, smooches, etc) that can be used to get more books. Its an economy, or a business, that works on credit rather than money.

Now about specifying where books go, in a business, you can't discriminate, even in cases where it could be considered positive discrimination. Its a bit insulting to those who have been singled out for special treatment and its a quick way to loose business if it was generally known. BookMooch tries hard to be fair to all its customers. All rules apply equally to everyone, regardless of where they live. It works and most users are satisfied.

LibraryThing is an international site with many forums. Have you tried looking for groups that are interested in what you are doing or start one of your own? Also, LibraryThing allows members to give away books. I don't know how it works, but it might be something you want to look into.

Hopefully this makes sense. I think my point is clear, but my words will sometimes get twisted, and I don't realize it. I read, not write :)

36MrAndrew
Nov 4, 2009, 7:20 pm

I don't consider the USA to be a "book sink" (#25), it's a book pool. Most of the books that i have received have come from the USA, and plenty of those were from "my own country" users.

The USA is the easiest country by far when you are trying to locate an Angel. Of the 235 Angels on the Angel listing, 93 are from the USA. Any request for an USA Angel posted on the LT or BM forums is answered almost immediately. I just wish that the Angel service was more prominent, so that more users were aware of it. It really should be a menu option when mooching a book.

37Lman
Modifié : Nov 4, 2009, 10:24 pm

I agree with MrA:

Lola, until you actually experience it, the community aspect of BookMooch cannot be overestimated. I understand your POV, and when I first started felt somewhat similar. But the actuality is far, far different.

As MrAndrew commented, even if the book is from a member in US or UK/ Canada/France (anywhere really), a quick post to an LT or BM forum and the book is mooched for you. And let me tell you, any negativity felt from the original inability is so, so much less than the warmth and happiness supplied with an 'angel' mooch. And it most certainly is a two-way thing: the number of requests I get, because members in my country won't send, offsets (in my mind) the same situation for me. The other thing I have noticed is that every time I angel-mooch a book for a member who doesn't send international themselves, they regularly reply with a message offering to do so in the future... justifies my action, I feel.

The other thing to remember is that some members really cannot afford to send overseas, especially where there is no economical option, like sea mail; and that should be respected rather than considered a false excuse not to send. Of course the site has members who scam - it is part of our society sadly- but the majority of members I have met are the nicest people and a joy to link up with - as much of importance to me as the actual book.

edited: because I can't proof-read properly. :)

38Trismegistus
Nov 5, 2009, 6:21 am

As someone who splits my time equally between the United States and East/Southeast Asia, I'd be willing to bet I have more experience than many with both sides of mooching internationally. Interestingly, while about half of my international mooch requests to the U.S. are declined, I've never managed an international mooch from anywhere except the U.S. while living in Asia (and as others have mentioned, it's much easier to find a North American angel than one from, say, Laos). This makes me somewhat skeptical of the idea that intra-region mooching would necessarily solve any problems.

Obviously, my experience is no more universal than anyone else's, but for what it's worth, I think the current system affords the best compromise, I am happy to take people at their word when they say they can't afford to send due to cost, and I've found it much harder to get Korean-language books sent to the U.S. than English books sent to Asia.

39RebeccaAnn
Nov 5, 2009, 8:42 am

I think you also have to consider that, when you're dealing with a nation as large and as populous as a America, both the amount of yes's and no's to sending internationally are going to be increased than when attempting to mooch from a smaller nation. Where in a country of say, 600,000, only 100 may be able to send international and 599,900 can't, in America, you'll get 5,000 who can and whatever million who can't. So it seems like there is a lot more people who are being stingy, but if you do the math (and I'm sure my equation is off because I study music and literature, not math :P ), it should even itself off a bit.

And also, speaking as an American here, the cost of shipping internationally can be crazy! I once sent one book to the Philippines and it costs somewhere around $30. That's the cost of shipping about 15 books within the country. That was my first experience with shipping internationally so you can see how, for a long time, I only shipped within the US where it costs approximately $2 a book. However, the benefits are on the side of shipping internationally. I won't send big, heavy books ever again because I am a college student and am therefore extremely poor, but I do angel a lot and have my profile set to worldwide. I hope I can keep it there but it is a lot cheaper to send within the US than to send overseas and I don't think you can get angry at any American for not being able to afford it.

40ms.hjelliot
Nov 5, 2009, 3:49 pm

I joined bookmooch while I was living in England. It was the only international bookswap site at the time (still is?) and was greatly appreciated. Now I am living in the USA and it is still greatly appreciated. I shipped internationally then, I ship internationally now. If someone else doesn't, I use the angel network. It works. I am happy.

41k8tpie
Nov 5, 2009, 4:27 pm

As a NZ Bookmoocher, I just want to say that there are benefits to not being in the US! Firstly, most of my books go overseas (all over the world) and my mooch ratio looks great even though I've received far more books than I've sent, due to the 3 points. Secondly (and this is a big one for me), when I've got some points to spend and nothing showing up on my wishlist, I just go through the books in NZ, and always find a few I wouldn't have known were there.

42MrAndrew
Nov 5, 2009, 6:03 pm

plus you get to have cooler accent, eh.

43k8tpie
Nov 5, 2009, 8:18 pm

Definitely!

44AllyBally
Nov 6, 2009, 4:54 am

I am in Italy and have been sending my books worldwide on an ask first basis. If the book is a hardback I will send to Europe/Zone 1 countries only. Paperbacks travel worldwide.
The only problem I have had is that as I add my books to my inventory in the evening I have the impression that many European moochers do not manage to see that their wishlisted book has finally been added until the day after; after Usa moochers have already had a chance to reserve the book for themselves.
For books that are readily available in USA it doesn't make sense to mooch from me whilst non-Uk based Europeans are unlikely to come across the book elsewhere if not from BMers in Europe.
Cost comes into it as depending on weight the difference in posting becomes noticable. On the other hand I have asked for angels for WLed books that have been in people's inventories for a week and I am unlikely to find in Europe.

45soniaandree
Nov 6, 2009, 6:27 am

Dear Tombleweed

I am a French user of BookMooch, and when I mooch books, I tend to favour EU books (including Belgium ones!), Canadian books etc. There are also many, many books in my wishlist whose US owners won't send outside. However, I have a very trustworthy US 'Angel' who mooches and sends the requested book to my attention. It takes more time, but patience is a virtue.

So far, I have befriended many BookMooch users, from around the world, and despite the fact that I am unemployed, and a student, I get books that are relevant to me.

The BookMooch workshop sounds great, and you should not get discouraged by US-only BM users - make use of an Angel, you will then be able to get the books you want from a person you trust.

Regards,

soniaandree

46bookel
Nov 16, 2009, 11:41 pm

"Any request for an USA Angel posted on the LT or BM forums is answered almost immediately."

Sadly the several times I have asked for an angel, it is not "almost immediately". Maybe I post at the wrong time? (though the time stamp on the most recent one seems to say mid-evening USA time).

47MrAndrew
Nov 17, 2009, 12:42 am

perhaps i exaggerated a bit, but i think USA requests are generally answered pretty fast, certainly faster than many other countries (because there are more USA users and therefore more Angels, of course).

I'd agree some times it's going to be faster than others, with less users on during the late evening and early morn.

Quick check on the first 10 USA Angel response times on the the current thread:
Requested 10:24am responded 11:48am
Requested 3:16pm responded 4:46pm
Requested 5:17pm responded 5:48pm
Requested 6:53pm responded 7:28pm
Requested 4:43am responded 1:27pm
Requested 10:48am responded 3:02pm
Requested 5:23pm responded 6:26pm
Requested 7:32pm responded 7:42pm
Requested 7:59am responded 11:54am
Requested 2:15pm responded 2:31pm

overall i'd call it pretty darn fast for volunteer work. Looks like the early morning ones take a bit longer, fewer people browsing i guess.

48bookel
Modifié : Nov 17, 2009, 2:50 am

Well, one of my USA requests in the current thread took six hours before it was mooched (almost all morning USA time). At least it was mooched, that's the main thing... I just worry it might be snatched in the meantime! The other took almost two hours before someone offered to mooch it (not through the angel thread).

49carlym
Modifié : Nov 18, 2009, 7:42 pm

Tombleweed, if you're still following this thread, I looked at your wishlist. I have Netherland and would be happy to reserve it for you on Bookmooch when I'm finished with it. I don't know when I'll read it, but if you leave me a comment here on Bookmooch, I'll remember to contact you when I'm finished with it to see if you're still looking for it. I am in the US, but I send internationally.

If there are particular books you want, you might want to post them on the "book search among friends" thread in this forum.

50Heather19
Nov 18, 2009, 7:55 pm

Bookel, I know you are speaking more generally then this, but recently I saw a Angel request of yours almost directly after you posted it, and I stopped myself from mooching it for you because of money issues. (Oh man I wanted to so bad!).

Just saying, sometimes it's not that Angels aren't on, but for some other reason it hasn't been gotten yet.

51bookel
Nov 18, 2009, 8:07 pm

True Heather, true.
I have thought that if someone is after an angel to mooch a book, they can also e-mail the book owner to let them know someone is requesting it for them and to hold it... as I see some people miss out on the books, which doesn't seem fair because in a sense they did ask first, but it cannot be reserved for an angel if it is their country only, like ask first can be (then it is irksome having to wait for the book owner to change the reserve on it, and sometimes they don't log on for days...).

52RebeccaAnn
Modifié : Nov 23, 2009, 9:25 pm

Well, one of my USA requests in the current thread took six hours before it was mooched (almost all morning USA time).

There's a good chance the angels were either sleeping or at work. Remember, most of us probably have the standard 8-5 jobs to go to that likely don't allow us free access to the internet at any time :)

53Heather19
Nov 23, 2009, 11:15 pm

52: True, true.

(shhhh, they don't know I'm not "most of us!" hehe)

54varielle
Fév 12, 2020, 12:36 pm

I just reluctantly changed my status to not ship overseas. I mailed an ordinary sized book to Australia this morning for $46 US. Three points is no longer enough enticement to squander that much money when I could buy many more than that for the same amount of money. If anyone has any contact/influence with BM they may want to raise the points offered for an international mooch. It might stimulate things.

55Darth-Heather
Fév 12, 2020, 1:36 pm

>54 varielle: I made the same reluctant choice about a year ago, for the same reason. Some countries weren't as expensive, but a few are quite costly and take months to get there; it would be encouraging if there were a scale of points based on how much the postage cost. Shipping within the US costs about $3.50 per book, for one point.

56macsbrains
Fév 17, 2020, 4:23 pm

>54 varielle: The other alternative is to set yourself to "ask" and make the decision based on which book to which country, or, to require a 2 book minimum per package. Also, depending on how much effort you're willing to expend, you can angel mooch a book or two for them from another user if there's any cost effectiveness to sending them together. I used to do that occasionally when I was actively sending internationally.