Life and Fate: Part 2

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Life and Fate: Part 2

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1klarusu
Oct 3, 2009, 4:38 pm

Thread for the discussion of Part 2 of the group read.

2kjellika
Oct 28, 2009, 5:04 pm

I'm about halfway through part 2, and I think this is a much more philosophical part than part 1. We learn more about the (main) characters and what they think and feel about each other, enemies,politics, war, science etc.
I think ch. 15 and ch. 16 are very important chapters of part 2, and maybe of the whole novel.
Ch. 15: Mostovskoj and Liss have an interesting conversation about communism and nazism. Are they similar ideologies?
Ch. 16: Mostovskoj is reading Ikonnikovs letter about love, man, history, the good and the evil etc. But Mostovskoj doesn't like Ikonnikov's opinions very much, I think.
Did I read somewhere that Ikonnikov is Grossman's spokesman?

I'm planning to finish part 2 in about a week, and the whole novel ultimo November.

3teelgee
Oct 28, 2009, 5:19 pm

I had the same sense Kjellika, I read that last night. I was wondering as I was reading Ikonnikov's letter if Grossman had stepped into the book and it was a narrative aside.

4kjellika
Nov 4, 2009, 3:05 pm

Finished this part of the novel.
I think I'll start reading the last part in about a week.
And I love Grossman's style, the story and all I learn about WWII, nazism, communism, people, politics, red tape (why 'red tape'?) etc. etc....

5englishrose60
Nov 5, 2009, 11:12 am

About halfway through Part 2 and I too like Grossman's style.

6englishrose60
Nov 8, 2009, 10:37 am

Finished Part 2 and found it very interesting, especially the comparison between Nazism and Communism under Stalin.

Have finished Part 3 and I am so glad that I live in England. To live in fear under Stalin must have been absolutely unbearable.

7rainpebble
Nov 8, 2009, 4:43 pm

I want to live in England as well. Midway between you, englishrose60 and elliepotten would suit me to a "tea". But cannot get the hubby to budge. Darned old thing!~!
hugs,
belva

8technodiabla
Nov 9, 2009, 4:01 pm

Loved Ch 15 (Part 2). I am hoping to finish Part 2 this week. Falling behind....

9englishrose60
Nov 9, 2009, 6:00 pm

Belva, would love to have you living here! We could socialise for real! Wouldn't you miss your family though? I am sure your hubby feels like a lot of people - as Dorothy would say "there's no place like home'.

Techno - everbody has to read at their own comfortable pace to enjoy their books - you will get there in the end so enjoy the journey at your own speed.

10Cecilturtle
Modifié : Nov 16, 2009, 8:09 pm

I have just finished this second part and enjoyed it much more than the first. It was a lot more fluid and it seemed to me there was more emphasis on the characters and less on events.

There is one thing that particularly struck me: the miscommunication between characters. Whether it is Victor and Liudmilla, Zenia and Navokov, Liss and Mostovskoj - and those are but a few examples - there is striking feeling that they don't understand each other and never will. It is both disheartening and unavoidable - Grossman certainly captures this sensation beautifully.

The passages around the gas chambers are also incredible. Whether it's the grotesque celebratory dinner or the horrible description of the people being shoved to their death (how Grossman kept this passage so poetically moving and hypnotizing is beyond me - what an unparalleled talent for words!) it leaves a lasting, stark impression.

I'm taking a little break from this much density, but I'm looking forward to Part III.

11rainpebble
Modifié : Nov 22, 2009, 11:51 pm

I am actually enjoying this read but it is not at all as I expected. With a title such as Life and Fate, one would expect it to be people main-charactered. I am still finding the main character to be the war itself and becoming more and more political all along. As Valerie said; it is very interesting to see the comparisons (and/or lack thereof) of Natzism, Communism, and Facism.
There are so very many side and underlying stories going on that I find I am caring very little about the characters, but just about the people in general. And while the horrors of the war are there, I think that I have read so much previously about WWII and the Nazis that I perhaps have hardened myself or was somewhat prepared for the atrocities of this particular war.
I am finding Life and Fate to be a much quicker read than I anticipated, (I am currently about 1/2 way through Part 3), am appreciating the writing and I love all the name dropping. I can't wait find time upon finishing the book to look up all the authors, poets, painters, etc. that are mentioned in the book. This one reads much faster than Doctor Zhivago did for me, but then I have also read much more about WWII than the Russian Revolution.
Now I must get back and finish Part 3.
belva

12kjellika
Nov 23, 2009, 3:50 am

#11 nannybebette,

I'm, like you, halfway through part 3, and I assume I'll finish the L&F in ~10 days.

And yes, the novel is rather political, and I agree that the war seems to be one of the main characters.
But imo Sthrum (Victor) and his family are main characters as well.
I think the chapters about them are quite "people main-charactered".

By the way: I haven't read Doctor Zhivago yet. Should I?

13rebeccanyc
Nov 23, 2009, 8:51 am

#11, One of the (many) things I appreciated about Life and Fate when I read it was that it gave me a lot more insight into the Soviet/Russian perspective on the war (and the total horror of it for them) than is typically available in books from the western point of view (which tend to minimize the "eastern front").

14rainpebble
Nov 23, 2009, 10:05 am

Ce message a été supprimé par son auteur

15rainpebble
Nov 23, 2009, 10:07 am

I'm sorry. I posted to the wrong thread.
belva