Tags - which ones?

Hallo,
I've just joined the group and I'm wondering if we could not try to agree on exactly which TAGS we do use and/or should perhaps use for the books we're talking about.

And I've checked and seen that some - also among this group - don't even use any tags.

Please do ... because otherwise no one can find out which ones you have or how much you liked them.

Rufus C. Camphausen
author

I think part of the problem is the personal nature of erotica - and here I'm not referring to the pejorative 'pornography' often used by those who are 'troubled' in some way by what they find in a book. Erotica is about arousal, and this is highly personal.

For instance, the catch-all 'bondage' could be subdivided in the way I've subdivided 'erotic punishment' (which in itself is an oxymoron for many people). My scheme is directed towards the uses I make of my books in research, but even then I know I'm not consistent. (It would help in this to have a drop-down list of all tags when deciding which to use!)

I'm not sure agreement on a common list is practicable, but certainly it would be useful - not to mention very interesting - even in its development!

Clifford,

several replies in 1:

a) I understand what you're saying with the example 'bondage' and 'erotic punishment' - and of course I don't expect that many people would exactly agree on what to call the variety and nuances of these experiences.

b) what I'm talking about should be more easy. It is a pity that different people use too many variations. One finds, for example general terms such as erotic, erotica, adult, explicit, erotic fiction, fiction - erotic, literotica ... and many more such examples.

c) I do not imagine that one can get a STANDARD for the whole LT community, but perhaps it would be possible for members of this group who seem to care for the subject more than others (admit).

d) within any such agreement - for example "erotica", everyone is still able to have their own specialized tags. So I'd imagine that a book YOU have now under 'erotic punishment' should have a tag sequence like (for example):

erotica, BDSM, bondage, erotic punishment

If all of these tags are used for a given title ... the book can be found by many potential readers.

e) in your case, because you have the RESEARCH - code as part of each tag ... no one but you finds these books ... and because of the RESEARCH - code, your tags don't even get listed in the TAG mashes ...

It is clear that you choose your tags with care ... but they are not accessable unless someone knows your personal library and its organization ...

Well, it'sat least a beginning of a discussion ... I hope others will join in.

Rufus

I split mine in the first instance into fiction and non fiction....sometimes this means that the books just get lost in the general run of things.

Within the non fiction arena, I use tags for history, art (Photography), biography, sexuality, bisexuality, BDSM, courtesans, prostitution, nudes, etc...

Within the fiction section, I tag them all with erotica and then add more specific information like short story collection, BDSM, Dominance, gay/lesbian, fetishism, bondage etc.

I agree that it will be difficult to come to some consensus on this but one person's "fetish" is another's "normal" in everyday life... why should it be any different here? ;)

>4 australwind:

" ... I split mine in the first instance into fiction and non fiction ... "

What's your suggestion for sexuality case studies? The popular and prolific sexologist Gerda Mundinger is widely believed to be one of the many pseudonyms of Paul Little, and therefore fiction, although the books themselves give no indication of this. I have some niggling doubts, too, about the 'Sex-life Letters' books 'edited by' the author Lesley Asquith.

One of the seventies spank mags used to carry the strap-line (sorry!) 'Fact, Fantasy and Readers' Letters', which I always thought summed up the dilemma quite elegantly!

I find that any book that is either erotic or concerns erotica, and is sold neither as fiction, nor comes from a well-established 'technical' publisher, calls for some subjective judgement as to its categorisation. Erotic Literature is rife with pseudonymity and subterfuge - and probably always has been!

But I do accept your suggestion as a credible solution, even if it needs a 'Don't Know' category.

The author Colin Wilson once pointed out that sometimes fiction is needed to make a point that is just too difficult to make analytically, and he fully understood the concept of 'books to be read with one hand'.

A dilemma indeed - perhaps "fantasy" might be worthy of consideration?

Let's face it - fairy tales and myths in some cultures were meant as teaching tools in the sphere of moral education....

I, too, divide my erotica into Fiction and Non-fiction Books of case-studies and letters I class as Non-fiction
But there are problems with both the principal groups I have nominated.
Take Fiction.
How "Erotic" does a book have to be to be Erotic Fiction? Take one or two examples. "The Blue Lagoon" (H. de Vere Stackpoole), "Three Weeks" (Elinor Glyn), "The Adventures of King Pausole" (Pierre Louys), "The Well of Loneliness" (Radclyffe Hall), "Cupid and Psyche" (Apuleius), "Daphnis and Chloe" (Longus), "Madame Bovary" (Gustave Flaubert) and similar novels. They are all about sex. But are they erotic? Are "Lolita" (Vladimir Nabokov) and "Our Lady of the Flowers" (Jean Genet), both of which were banned, erotic? I think we can usually say whether a book is fiction or not. But deciding if it's erotic or not erotic is a purely subjective matter, and I don't see any point in trying to fabricate rules or draw boundaries. Such devices can never succeed.
André tells an interesting story in this connection. An elderly gentleman (EG) walked into a bookshop and approached a young lady (YL) assistant. He says to her: "I want to buy a book for my grand-daughter and I don't know much about books. Could you choose something for me?" YL says: "Certainly, Sir." And she went away and soon came back with a book which she handed to him. EG looked at the book, and then said: "I hope there is no sex in this book." And YL assures him: "Dear no, Sir. There's no sex in that book. It's a love story."

And what about imaginative writings of other kinds. Are bawdy ballads and Rugby songs and Burns' "Merry Muses of Caledonia" and similar things erotic? Many of these are so amusing that you are laughing and not concerning yourself with arousal. Yet they are clearly enough a kind of erotica and most people would say so. Limericks, too, and facetiae. Erotica. But it is best left to the individual to make his or her own choice.

Art books are another and similar matter. Rowlandson can be erotic, and erybody would agree that he has more to do with sex than Turner. How people classify their art books must be a personal choice.

With non-fiction I find there is also a problem. I avoid the tag "erotica" or similar designation and use the most appropriate tag for a book. If a book is about the history of prostitution it has the tag "prostitution." It does not need the tag "erotica" even if it goes into salacious detail about sexual practices If the book is about temple sculptures of Khajuraho and Konarak or wall paintings in Pompeii there are obvious tags that can be applied, and if a person wants to keep a record of books that he (or she) thinks are erotic it is only necessary to make an extra entry to note that. I would never class a marriage manual as erotica, but somebody else may.
Let's not make rules. Let people do as they choose. Glen Ralph, Wilmar Library, South Australia

I suppose there are exceptions in any classification, but some authors deliberately 'push the envelope' on case studies, knowing that the notion that a story might be true adds a powerful erotic frisson for many readers. I therefore automatically suspect any author who uses a title such as 'Dr,', or 'Prof.' on the cover, feeling that a reputation should stand without being trumpeted - 'A good wine needs no bush', as they say.

I agree that some words, such as 'erotica', contain an undefinable principle that is undeniably influenced by the subjective/objective boundary. I understand that some people found Margaret Thatcher erotic, and these people may well be excited by biographical works about her. But most, if not all people have some understanding of what to deduce from the word, even if that understanding is to some extent subjective. Because of this, I feel the word is still useful.