1Jannes
This is a bit tricky to explain. I'm trying to find a descriptive term for books that are made to seem to be different than what they are. Like a prop or a facsimile, but without any actual original being reproduced.
I'm not talking about simply a fictional work where the text is ascribed to a fictional character, but rather when the whole, or at least most of, the volume is designed to seem real but is in fact "fictional", including publishing information, author attribution, and so forth, or when the book in question is in the form of non-fiction but actually fictional, like a guidebook of a place that doesn't exist.
My best example is probably The Book of the Smoke that purports to be an occult guide to London published in the 1930's. The hardcover 1st ed. has nothing in it what so ever that establishes that it's actually written and published in 2011.
I've looked around, but seem to be unable to find any established term to describe this. Does anyone have any suggestions?
My best suggestion so far, if no established term exists, is probably "simulacrum" which, according to postmodernist Jean Baudrillard is "a copy without an original".
I'm not talking about simply a fictional work where the text is ascribed to a fictional character, but rather when the whole, or at least most of, the volume is designed to seem real but is in fact "fictional", including publishing information, author attribution, and so forth, or when the book in question is in the form of non-fiction but actually fictional, like a guidebook of a place that doesn't exist.
My best example is probably The Book of the Smoke that purports to be an occult guide to London published in the 1930's. The hardcover 1st ed. has nothing in it what so ever that establishes that it's actually written and published in 2011.
I've looked around, but seem to be unable to find any established term to describe this. Does anyone have any suggestions?
My best suggestion so far, if no established term exists, is probably "simulacrum" which, according to postmodernist Jean Baudrillard is "a copy without an original".
3Bernarrd
I assume you mean a book like The Necronomicon by the "Mad Arab" Abdul Alhazred, that Lovecraft invented or the so called Original version of "The Princess Bride" by S. Morgenstern from which the so called "Good Parts" version written by William Goldman was derived. I even had someone come into the bookstore looking for a copy of the Morgenstern book. He would not believe that it did not actually exist. There have been mock up editions of The Necronomicon made over the years. I guess you could call them a fictional device, but what you would call the mock up editions that have been made of them, I would have no idea. I would just call them a money grab myself. Something to sell to the gullible. How do you make a copy of something that never existed?
4Keeline
>3 Bernarrd:
As a manager of an antiquarian bookstore specializing in children's books for a dozen years (1988-2000), we had many requests for the unabridged "Princess Bride" by "S. Morganstern." And like you, many would not believe that no such book exists (even to this point).
It seems certain that William Goldman is not a fan of used booksellers. Perhaps he thinks they cheat him from royalties as books are resold instead of people buying new ones. There are authors who have this notion. In the early part of his book The Princess Bride, he has an unflattering scene with a used bookstore. Then he invents a fictitious longer version of the book and largely on the basis of the delightful film (more than the book) people look for more that might be in the unabridged book.
Goldman added to this with the thin book The Silent Gondoliers which was published as by "S. Morganstern" with the author biography on the jacket flap something along the line of:
It just adds to the fiction and further frustrates booksellers who try to help people legitimately find books that were actually published.
Another interesting example is the 1983 British Yellow Pages TV commercial were an older gentleman is visiting used bookstores in search of "Fly Fishing" by "J. R. Hartley." After many "no" answers he returns home and his daughter suggests that he use the Yellow Pages. He seems to find one who can help and asks that they hold it for him and the reveal is that he is "J. R. Hartley." Here's the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeicexenTmU
There was a Fry and Lorrie skit about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKinNby3BsQ
In 1991 such a book was made to fill the need of people who were intrigued enough about the book to have a copy for themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_Fishing:_Memories_of_Angling_Days
In the juvenile series book world we have problems with people looking for "phantom titles" and even books from "phantom series" which were advertised somewhere but never actually published so completely unfindable. There are also the cases of books sought in formats where they were never published, particularly less-successful series in pictorial cover format. Here are some definitions of the phantom topics on my site:
https://stratemeyer.org/def/phantom-title/
https://stratemeyer.org/def/phantom-series/
In a show-and-tell session for the bibliophile group to which we belong, the Zamorano Club that currently meets in Altadena, California, one of our members talked about books like this and he also started with the fictitious book mentioned in The Necronomicon. I should see if he had a word for it. I was interested in the presentation but did not think I would need that bit of information later on.
In the mystery field there is a word for an object, like the "Maltese Falcon", is a "MacGuffin" that inspires and drives the plot even though it is of little real connection to it.
I have seen specialized word lists that relate to books and book collecting that go beyond the usual content of something like ABC for Book Collectors by John Carter, et al. There might be something among them since this does occur. There have even been antiquarian bookseller catalogs of supposedly ultra rare or unique books that never really existed.
It is an interesting and sometimes frustrating field.
James
As a manager of an antiquarian bookstore specializing in children's books for a dozen years (1988-2000), we had many requests for the unabridged "Princess Bride" by "S. Morganstern." And like you, many would not believe that no such book exists (even to this point).
It seems certain that William Goldman is not a fan of used booksellers. Perhaps he thinks they cheat him from royalties as books are resold instead of people buying new ones. There are authors who have this notion. In the early part of his book The Princess Bride, he has an unflattering scene with a used bookstore. Then he invents a fictitious longer version of the book and largely on the basis of the delightful film (more than the book) people look for more that might be in the unabridged book.
Goldman added to this with the thin book The Silent Gondoliers which was published as by "S. Morganstern" with the author biography on the jacket flap something along the line of:
It is said by some that I do not exist. But I can assure you that to my wife and children I am very real.
It just adds to the fiction and further frustrates booksellers who try to help people legitimately find books that were actually published.
Another interesting example is the 1983 British Yellow Pages TV commercial were an older gentleman is visiting used bookstores in search of "Fly Fishing" by "J. R. Hartley." After many "no" answers he returns home and his daughter suggests that he use the Yellow Pages. He seems to find one who can help and asks that they hold it for him and the reveal is that he is "J. R. Hartley." Here's the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeicexenTmU
There was a Fry and Lorrie skit about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKinNby3BsQ
In 1991 such a book was made to fill the need of people who were intrigued enough about the book to have a copy for themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_Fishing:_Memories_of_Angling_Days
In the juvenile series book world we have problems with people looking for "phantom titles" and even books from "phantom series" which were advertised somewhere but never actually published so completely unfindable. There are also the cases of books sought in formats where they were never published, particularly less-successful series in pictorial cover format. Here are some definitions of the phantom topics on my site:
https://stratemeyer.org/def/phantom-title/
https://stratemeyer.org/def/phantom-series/
In a show-and-tell session for the bibliophile group to which we belong, the Zamorano Club that currently meets in Altadena, California, one of our members talked about books like this and he also started with the fictitious book mentioned in The Necronomicon. I should see if he had a word for it. I was interested in the presentation but did not think I would need that bit of information later on.
In the mystery field there is a word for an object, like the "Maltese Falcon", is a "MacGuffin" that inspires and drives the plot even though it is of little real connection to it.
I have seen specialized word lists that relate to books and book collecting that go beyond the usual content of something like ABC for Book Collectors by John Carter, et al. There might be something among them since this does occur. There have even been antiquarian bookseller catalogs of supposedly ultra rare or unique books that never really existed.
It is an interesting and sometimes frustrating field.
James
5Bernarrd
There was also a place in copies of "The Princess Bride"where Buttercup and Wesley are reunited. Goldman mentions how he felt cheated because there was no long reunion scene. So he tells readers to write to the publisher with SASE and ask for a copy of the "Reunion Scene". I was curious just what I would get, so I sent for the scene. I received more of Goldman carrying on as if Morganstern was real. He says that the Lawyer for Morganstern has blocked release of the scene and the lawyer asks how Goldman dares to put words into the great Morgansterns mouth. By the time I wrote for the scene the book had been out for several years. And I could see how the letter sent had been changed several times over the years, each time promising that at some future date the scene will be released only to postpone it's release to a later date. The portrait of the lawyer was very unflattering, I guess Goldman did not like lawyers any better than he liked Used Booksellers. I never could understand how anyone reading all of this could not understand he/she was having their leg pulled.
On the topic of Phantom books, I have to say that they are easily created, and hard to put and end to. I have collected Robert Lawson's illustrated books for many years. If you check the lists of his work you will find two different Phantom books (or at least phantom editions). There was supposed to be a Robert Lawson illustrated edition of "Pete the Pelican" written by Rita Kissin in 1937. No such edition exists. The book was illustrated by Joel Stolper. After much trouble I tracked this to the source. In Publishers Weekly for August 28, 1937 there is one mention in the publisher's ad (J. B. Lippincot) that this book was illustrated by Robert Lawson. But the same ad shows the books cover with the Stolper illustration. Also the book is mentioned elsewhere in the same magazine and Stolper is given credit as the illustrator. Some typo or mixed copy from 1937 has caused this book to have a half-life all of these years. There is also a mention of an edition of "The Tale of Two Cities" by Charles Dickens, illustrated by Robert Lawson and published by Ginn in 1938. But this book does not exist as far as I can find. I have checked Worldcat and the Catalog of Copyright Entries, not to mention searching online for years for the book, all for nothing. I think I have found how this one happened also, but I am still searching out details. Once this information is mentioned in a book or magazine it is hard to take back the mistake. It is repeated by others, because it must be true.
On the topic of Phantom books, I have to say that they are easily created, and hard to put and end to. I have collected Robert Lawson's illustrated books for many years. If you check the lists of his work you will find two different Phantom books (or at least phantom editions). There was supposed to be a Robert Lawson illustrated edition of "Pete the Pelican" written by Rita Kissin in 1937. No such edition exists. The book was illustrated by Joel Stolper. After much trouble I tracked this to the source. In Publishers Weekly for August 28, 1937 there is one mention in the publisher's ad (J. B. Lippincot) that this book was illustrated by Robert Lawson. But the same ad shows the books cover with the Stolper illustration. Also the book is mentioned elsewhere in the same magazine and Stolper is given credit as the illustrator. Some typo or mixed copy from 1937 has caused this book to have a half-life all of these years. There is also a mention of an edition of "The Tale of Two Cities" by Charles Dickens, illustrated by Robert Lawson and published by Ginn in 1938. But this book does not exist as far as I can find. I have checked Worldcat and the Catalog of Copyright Entries, not to mention searching online for years for the book, all for nothing. I think I have found how this one happened also, but I am still searching out details. Once this information is mentioned in a book or magazine it is hard to take back the mistake. It is repeated by others, because it must be true.
6booksforreading
I remember how seeing The Ballad of Buster Scruggs on Netflix made me search for "the original" book of the stories. The search was fruitless. Now there are many copies available, published in 2018 and later... :)
I remember also seeing "fake facsimiles" of books that (might have) never existed in original publications, but I cannot remember now any specifics of titles or subjects. It is a fascinating field of studies.
I remember also seeing "fake facsimiles" of books that (might have) never existed in original publications, but I cannot remember now any specifics of titles or subjects. It is a fascinating field of studies.
7Jannes
>3 Bernarrd: Close, but note quite. I'm talking about book that actually exist, but is connected somehow to a fictional context. An atlas of the Discworld that claims to have been printed in Ankh-Morpork and where the actual publisher has gone to some lengths to make the physical book support this fiction with fake publishing information, or similar.
So one of those paperback editions of The Necronomicon by Simon wouldn't fit, but one that claims to have been printed by the Miskatonic University Press in Arkham, Mass. In 1925 with annotations by professor Henry Armitage would. The book itself is real, but it's context is fictional. Or rather, the whole book-as-artifact is fictional, rather than just the text.
Sorry if I'm not explaining this very well.
So one of those paperback editions of The Necronomicon by Simon wouldn't fit, but one that claims to have been printed by the Miskatonic University Press in Arkham, Mass. In 1925 with annotations by professor Henry Armitage would. The book itself is real, but it's context is fictional. Or rather, the whole book-as-artifact is fictional, rather than just the text.
Sorry if I'm not explaining this very well.
8Bernarrd
>7 Jannes: Maybe this Necronomicon is more what you are thinking of.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275367392949?hash=item401d2cf6b5:g:y2MAAOSwkeJiu3mr
There have been several different books created over the years, all of them fake.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275367392949?hash=item401d2cf6b5:g:y2MAAOSwkeJiu3mr
There have been several different books created over the years, all of them fake.
9Keeline
>8 Bernarrd:
When it comes to faked up books, there are things that resemble movie prop items such as the Jumanji game or the Indiana Jones diary or the particular binding of The Neverending Story from the film. For that matter, even the edition of Journey to the Center of the Earth from the film Journey 3D is similar to but does not represent a published edition. Movies and TV are a source of a lot of faked items.
James
When it comes to faked up books, there are things that resemble movie prop items such as the Jumanji game or the Indiana Jones diary or the particular binding of The Neverending Story from the film. For that matter, even the edition of Journey to the Center of the Earth from the film Journey 3D is similar to but does not represent a published edition. Movies and TV are a source of a lot of faked items.
James
