1EGBERTINA
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/14733/Yesterdays-Classics
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/258035/Yesterdays-Classics
I found two collections that should be merged.
these are books published/ sold by yesterday's classics
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/258035/Yesterdays-Classics
I found two collections that should be merged.
these are books published/ sold by yesterday's classics
2gilroy
>1 EGBERTINA: Are any of these published anywhere other than by Yesterday's Classics publisher? If so, I'd move books from the regular series to the publisher series, then delete the regular series. But that's just me.
3MarthaJeanne
Children of the New Forest is already in several publishers series so it does not belong in a regular series of classics.
Just so Stories as well.
Just so Stories as well.
4EGBERTINA
stupid question- what is the precise difference between publisher series and regular series. pub series- is sort of self explanatory but how does a regular series work? reg series is the default and I don't like to hit buttons I don't understand- so I seldom push Pub series?!
thx
thx
5gilroy
>4 EGBERTINA: The definition of these is different on Librarything than on most sites.
Regular series - All books are published just for that series, no strays, usually a single author but can have multiple, mostly just from a single publisher
Publisher series - Book has been published by multiple publishers through different series (Think of things like Penguin Classics) and is not necessarily linked to the other books by other than being part of that gathering of books. Almost always is multiple authors.
Regular series - All books are published just for that series, no strays, usually a single author but can have multiple, mostly just from a single publisher
Publisher series - Book has been published by multiple publishers through different series (Think of things like Penguin Classics) and is not necessarily linked to the other books by other than being part of that gathering of books. Almost always is multiple authors.
6Andy_Dingley
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7EGBERTINA
in the case of yesterday's classics- how does that apply? they are not a sequence of novels- but neither does a single publisher own these rights, as these books are public domain
8MarthaJeanne
One good rule of thumb is to ask if every copy of every work belongs in the series. A lot of publishers decide to start a series on some topic, and commission works for it, but decide to also include reprints of older but important works.
>7 EGBERTINA: So it counts as a publisher's series.
>7 EGBERTINA: So it counts as a publisher's series.
9gilroy
>7 EGBERTINA: For Librarything, that's a publisher's series.
10EGBERTINA
uncertainty. I guess I see yesterday's classics as a homeschooling theme. I don't think they provide their own curriculum- as does ambleside - which uses these same books-but they provide books that will be used, recommended by homeschoolers and the people interested in out of print classics. for instance those that follow a Charlotte mason philosophy; or those that believe in reading "real" books over published textbooks- that may adhere to strict age-graded vocabulary lists.
11MarthaJeanne
Look at it this way. Series show up at the top of the work pages. They also show up in my series list. I have an interest that series only show up there if I really have a book in that series.
If I find a series that lists a book I own, and my book is NOT part of the series, I have every reason to remove that work from the series, but not from a publisher's series, because it is expected that books can be part of multiple publisher's series.
If I find a series that lists a book I own, and my book is NOT part of the series, I have every reason to remove that work from the series, but not from a publisher's series, because it is expected that books can be part of multiple publisher's series.
12AnnieMod
>10 EGBERTINA: The easiest way to think of this is probably this:
If this book gets translated or reprinted by a different publisher, will it still be part of that series? If not, then it is a publisher series. If yes - it is a regular series.
It does not matter what the intent of the publisher really is - what really matters if there are possible or existing copies of that book in any language or format out there that don't belong to the series. If there are, it is not a regular series.
For example For Dummies have very specific content and format of the text and data and even if translated/republished, they are still the same books - even if the series itself is named differently in other languages. On the other hand, Oxford's "A Very Short Introduction": https://www.librarything.com/nseries/1391/A-Very-Short-Introduction have books that originated as other editions and were then republished under this series and others which were later republished in other series (because there is no real format requirement - it is just a length one). So the Dummies book are a series for LT but the VSI ones are a Publisher series (because if I have a non-VSI edition of a book, I don't want the site to tell me that I have a VSI book.
Hope that helps a bit.
If this book gets translated or reprinted by a different publisher, will it still be part of that series? If not, then it is a publisher series. If yes - it is a regular series.
It does not matter what the intent of the publisher really is - what really matters if there are possible or existing copies of that book in any language or format out there that don't belong to the series. If there are, it is not a regular series.
For example For Dummies have very specific content and format of the text and data and even if translated/republished, they are still the same books - even if the series itself is named differently in other languages. On the other hand, Oxford's "A Very Short Introduction": https://www.librarything.com/nseries/1391/A-Very-Short-Introduction have books that originated as other editions and were then republished under this series and others which were later republished in other series (because there is no real format requirement - it is just a length one). So the Dummies book are a series for LT but the VSI ones are a Publisher series (because if I have a non-VSI edition of a book, I don't want the site to tell me that I have a VSI book.
Hope that helps a bit.
13gilroy
>10 EGBERTINA: Let's use a book from your questioned series as an example. The Burgess Bird Book for Children If we look at the Editions page, you'll notice this has prints by Dover Classics, Yesterday's classics, and one or two others minor imprints. This book would draw the Yesterday's Classics into a Publisher's Series. How they are used is irrelevant to the designation. If we look at one as provided by >3 MarthaJeanne:, The Children of the New Forest this one is also done by Wordsworth Classics, Dover Classics, and Yesterday's Classics. As I look at the two series, it looks like someone tried to separate out those that are printed by multiple series versus those that only have Yesterday's Classics in the Editions page. If the two merge, it all becomes a publisher's series
See also the Helpthing Wiki: https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Series#What_is_a_Publisher_Series.3F
See also the Helpthing Wiki: https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Series#What_is_a_Publisher_Series.3F
14Keeline
I think that most would look at Nancy Drew and think of the series from 1 to 175 in hardcover and paperback as one series.
Volumes 1-56 were published by Grosset & Dunlap. Then imprints of Simon & Schuster (Wanderer, Minstrel, Aladdin) continued the series.
To complicate things, after initially being published by Wanderer, volumes 57-64 were reprinted by Grosset & Dunlap in the glossy flashlight format around 2005 with limited distribution.
The Stratemeyer Syndicate produced the volumes published from 1930 up through 1985.
Of course in other countries, like the U.K., there were different publishers and even volume numbers.
So, by a strict definition of a publisher's series from a standpoint of the publishers involved.
Further complicating matters is the issue of original text and revised text. All of volumes 1-34 had two versions. In some cases, the stories are simply "cut down" with shorter content (25 chapters => 20 chapters; ~214 pages => ~180 pages). Yet many others were completely rewritten and merely retain the same volume and title.
For the "cocktail test" it makes a huge difference whether the version of The Mystery of the Moss-Covered Mansion is from 1941 about stolen heirlooms or from 1971 about stolen missile parts at Cape Canaveral.
Yet these are combined together because it is not convenient to distinguish between them with the data used for manual and automatic combination. You'd have to look at the copyright date, number of chapters, and/or number of pages to differentiate them. Only the books published since 1967 have ISBNs and none of the original texts (1930-1957) have them printed in them. So the ISBN is not a way to distinguish between them.
For something like The Burgess Bird Book for Children, this was initially published by Little, Brown and with cheaper reprints by Grosset & Dunlap. It was a 4-volume series with other volumes about Flowers, Animals, and the Seashore. It does not matter who reprinted the book back when it was under copyright or especially once it was public domain and everyone piled on to provide their copies.
But I agree that stand-alone classics like what we are referring to don't fit the LT definition of a "series" and can only fit into a "publisher's series."
Of course, if you try to look at one of these publisher's series pages, you will see whatever was the most common cover image, nearly always ones that have no connection with the publisher's series page.
We have a lot of major edge cases that show that these definitions are fragile and we ignore some elephants in the room, and not just The Clue of the Ivory Charm, because they are hard to work with with the LT system.
James
Volumes 1-56 were published by Grosset & Dunlap. Then imprints of Simon & Schuster (Wanderer, Minstrel, Aladdin) continued the series.
To complicate things, after initially being published by Wanderer, volumes 57-64 were reprinted by Grosset & Dunlap in the glossy flashlight format around 2005 with limited distribution.
The Stratemeyer Syndicate produced the volumes published from 1930 up through 1985.
Of course in other countries, like the U.K., there were different publishers and even volume numbers.
So, by a strict definition of a publisher's series from a standpoint of the publishers involved.
Further complicating matters is the issue of original text and revised text. All of volumes 1-34 had two versions. In some cases, the stories are simply "cut down" with shorter content (25 chapters => 20 chapters; ~214 pages => ~180 pages). Yet many others were completely rewritten and merely retain the same volume and title.
For the "cocktail test" it makes a huge difference whether the version of The Mystery of the Moss-Covered Mansion is from 1941 about stolen heirlooms or from 1971 about stolen missile parts at Cape Canaveral.
Yet these are combined together because it is not convenient to distinguish between them with the data used for manual and automatic combination. You'd have to look at the copyright date, number of chapters, and/or number of pages to differentiate them. Only the books published since 1967 have ISBNs and none of the original texts (1930-1957) have them printed in them. So the ISBN is not a way to distinguish between them.
For something like The Burgess Bird Book for Children, this was initially published by Little, Brown and with cheaper reprints by Grosset & Dunlap. It was a 4-volume series with other volumes about Flowers, Animals, and the Seashore. It does not matter who reprinted the book back when it was under copyright or especially once it was public domain and everyone piled on to provide their copies.
But I agree that stand-alone classics like what we are referring to don't fit the LT definition of a "series" and can only fit into a "publisher's series."
Of course, if you try to look at one of these publisher's series pages, you will see whatever was the most common cover image, nearly always ones that have no connection with the publisher's series page.
We have a lot of major edge cases that show that these definitions are fragile and we ignore some elephants in the room, and not just The Clue of the Ivory Charm, because they are hard to work with with the LT system.
James
15EGBERTINA
I understand some of these explanations more than others. I have - mostly- successfully, gotten this down to one series. as far as the two visible entries- mentioned - it is done; but, there are a great many books to add to make the remaining one- complete. I cannot do that in one day. how to organize them was another issue. I prefer historical periods/ genres- but some works cut across historical periods. if, for example someone wrote about the Middle Ages, Ancient Greece, Europe, and americas- I kept them by author as much as was possible. ( so far)
slightly different topic. at the outset, one of these "series" titles came up listing hundreds of authors. at first that was the one being phased out. as time went by, to keep from guessing I modified its name- so that I could differentiate. later, when doing a "series" search- the main one- publisher series- would appear sporadically listing hundreds of authors.
what causes a series to want to identify by a lengthy list of authors??? and why is it not consistent
thx
slightly different topic. at the outset, one of these "series" titles came up listing hundreds of authors. at first that was the one being phased out. as time went by, to keep from guessing I modified its name- so that I could differentiate. later, when doing a "series" search- the main one- publisher series- would appear sporadically listing hundreds of authors.
what causes a series to want to identify by a lengthy list of authors??? and why is it not consistent
thx
16spiphany
>15 EGBERTINA: Under Edit series -> Basic settings, there is a box at the bottom of the page that determines whether the authors of the inidividual titles should also be listed as series authors. For publisher series, it usually makes sense to uncheck this box.
If a series has a dozens or hundreds of books and they 1) aren't numbered and 2) aren't unambiguously divided into distinct subseries, I generally find that the easiest way to organize the series page is by choosing the option to automatically sort alphabetically by title.
If a series has a dozens or hundreds of books and they 1) aren't numbered and 2) aren't unambiguously divided into distinct subseries, I generally find that the easiest way to organize the series page is by choosing the option to automatically sort alphabetically by title.
