The rights game - Suntup, Lyra's, Amarinthine

Looks like Amarinthine and Lyra's Books are getting into the Suntup rights game, and Lyra's books is even creating 2 different rights tracks - one for classic (public domain) and another for contemporary (licensed). This is not a criticism as this seems to be a good business model (until people get tired or overextended and jump off) - it's a way to sell out titles that would otherwise be less popular. So I can certainly see why it's happening from the business perspective.

Suntup will have to up their game very soon as Amarinthine is IMO beating them on the creativity front and Lyra's has definitely beat them on the craftsmanship front. In addition, Suntup is publishing too many titles, which doesn't work well in the long term with the rights model as the cost of keeping rights is high. If you don't release too many titles a year, I could see this being a sustainable business model.

I imagine Lyra's Classics will not be a hyper-speculative bubble compared to the initial Suntup craze as the titles to be published will all already have been immortalized and have inherent great value. Plus Rich has an extensive history of exquisite craft through Ludlow and hit a grand slam with his first offering under Lyra's Books. That is one rights system I can get behind as I have no doubt essentially every title will be worth it for most bibliophiles.

>1 punkzip: Marko has talked about doing a 3-track rights system for Amaranthine, as well. Without, I think, doing different imprints as Rich has decided to do, they have decided to publish along three tracks: contemporary, 20th century, and classic (older public domain). He was talking about probably doing separate rights for all three, as well as having maybe 100 copies always available to the public for every new release.

>3 whytewolf1: having 100 copies always available is a great idea - hope that happens - that way rights are for those who really just want the same numbers

I think people are missing the fact that there is a major problem specifically with Suntup, while forgetting that Subscriptions / Standing Orders are a longstanding tradition in the small/private press world, and an important part of that economy.

Richard, who no one's even given the chance to fully explain his rights system, specifically stated that they are "rights to first refusal." That is an incredibly important distinction that Paul Suntup has refused to make, and carries the most important implication: rights are to give YOU, as a patron of the press, the first chance to order a book YOU want. They are not a separate entity to be sold for value, nor do they exist for the sake of speculation to artificially drive up demand and secondary market costs. If you don't want it, don't order it.

>5 NathanOv: so Lyra’s rights can’t be transferred?

>6 punkzip: I don't think that's at all the issue with Suntup, and while it would be a partial solution I think someone who has a specific number of a book come into their possession should be able to request the matching number.

But once again, Richard has not announced the details of his Rights system yet, and people are jumping to massive conclusions when it seems pretty clear Richard's intent is simply to give people the opportunity to match #s.

Also, we have not seen the issues Suntup has with rights abuse and speculation yet with Amaranthine or any other small press.

>7 NathanOv: Amarinthine rights are already being sold as a premium. Not a large premium and I didn’t see a buyer but it’s happening

>5 NathanOv:
That’s a good point, but while it is the company’s right to hand that potentially valuable (in multiple senses) right to a group of people who have made a specific previous purchase, it is hardly surprising if those of us who bought the std Stardust or have never made a purchase but follow the company with interest find this a little annoying. If it had been clear from the start this would happen it would have been a different matter. Of course a lottery or similar would have annoyed the buyers of leather Stardusts, so what can you do!

>8 punkzip: I mean, some people are trying to, but we've yet to see that have any impact on primary sales or availability - we really have to wait for the Dorian publication to see if the rights sales made any difference at all.

EDIT: Richard just confirmed that rights will NOT be transferable.

>9 GusLogan: I think if Richard is truly only limited to making 100 of a specific edition, and if the demand is high enough that they sell out instantly, then it makes sense to open preorders a little early for existing patrons and give the opportunity to match numbers.

The real issue is buyers either 1) exercising rights for books they don't personally want just to keep rights, or 2) maintaining rights specifically to resell for a profit, which unfortunately Suntup actively encourages, but Richard's comments make clear is not his intent. Countless other presses have managed to maintain subscriptions without causing the issues that Suntup has.

Looks like Lyras did just explain their rights system in the Dorian thread. They are not transferable which is a good thing. The system as explained does seem customer focused - good on them

>1 punkzip: I think you’re missing the forest for the trees a bit here. These companies are selling books, not rights, although the chatter can sometimes be more about the latter.

Suntup’s business model isn’t predicated on rights. He said he never intended it to work this way, and I genuinely don’t think it pleases him to know rights sometimes sell for a premium.

I also think he doesn’t give a crap about whether people are able to maintain their rights. Matching numbers is a nice to have feature, but he needs to sell 350 books each month to people. Not the SAME 350 people, just any 350.

So I don’t think his increased production is going to do anything bad to his business model, it’ll just make him more money. His books always all sell out in less than an hour, and will likely continue to do so.