Tigana Part Five Discussion: THE MEMORY OF A FLAME

Nice Ring Dive, nice battle scene... nice 'wrap up most things'-type ending. All I really remember is that I didn't want it to be over.

Oh and I really was on the edge of my seat reading about the Ring Dive...

I just don't remember enough to really say, but ... what I came away with at the end was an appreciation for the fact that he didn't take the obvious route to end any of his threads. Brother and sister never met up again, the ring dive could have gone either way ... and other stuff I don't remember. :D :D

It was nice to read something where you didn't necessarily see what was coming, but that didn't mean that it came from left field.

I loved, LOVED the fact that Alessan's father (name slipping my mind) was Brandin's Fool.

It didn't surprise me that he was still alive, but never once did I suspect that he was the Fool. It seemed like such a great way to tie that character into everything that I had to go re-read all of the parts with the Fool to see if there were hints I missed.

Prince Valentin... I remember reading this the first time and thinking "oh, he's the fool! Oh!" Rereading it this time, knowing that he was the fool, it was interesting... and makes Rhun more of a sad figure (if he wasn't enough already).

This final section is a great way to end a really, really great book.

The whole Ring Dive scenario is so well handled, turning what was once an ancient tradition into a poignant, sad, character moment.

The end battle is also incredibly well done, with just the right amount of fighting to character moments to make it tense and violent, but not over-glorified. If there's one point in this last battle that sort of sums up the overall book, it would be the death of Rhamanus (the guy that took Dianora to Brandin)... it's a moment that you feel something for both sides of this fight - both seem to be right in their own way.

That's what Tigana is to me, it's not a traditional good versus evil fantasy story, it's a shades-of-grey tale, perhaps more true to life than most fantasy tales - that leaves you feeling moved, and satisfied... happy, and hopefully eager for more.

Now go, all of you, and buy more Guy Gavriel Kay books - I'm sure you won't be disappointed :-)

One more thing about the end ... I thought it cried for a sequel.

Me too! Because how do we know what seeing the riselka (riskela?) eventually meant to the three guys who saw her?

I like how GGK used the riselka to foreshadow what was to come, then changed it for Dianora. Like he was saying you can let fate take over or you can decide your own fate. Does that make sense? It wasn't like he was leading up to something obvious then swiched things around just to throw the reader for a loop.

I finished the book feeling sad and happy at the same time. And the wonderful miracle is, GGK does this time and again, but it's not like he's using a formula. Each story is different, although they are all about conflict between groups of people. I'd recommend The Lions of Al-Rassan and A Song for Arbonne as more great GGK novels.

I was at the edge of my seat as well for that scene and I really liked how things ended, although I wouldn't have minded further stories in that world I felt that it resolved a lot of the issues involved with most of the characters.

OK, so at last I finished the book, some seven weeks after everyone else... but I had other things to read at the time and so put this one off for a while.
All in all I felt it was well spent time - I liked the book. Well written, well concieved, and a good enough ending. Also, GGK deals with some major issues, which makes it sort of timeless. That it is written as a fantasy novel, helps, of course. Sadly this also prevents it from being read by a broader audience.

I've only given it a 4-star rating, though, as I felt the story to be somewhat predictable. Somewhere after the attempted assassination I thought "maybe Valentin is alive..." and not far after came "...possibly as Rhun!?". There also was no doubt about how the main story would end - with victory for Alessan & Co. OK, I'll be fair, I thought the chance for a over all lucky ending was only 98%, but that's fairly high ;-)

But I agree with Tane, in #4; it is a story with many shades of grey, the enemy being not evil incarnate but living loving caring people. In this lies what I think is the heart of the success of the tale of Tigana.

Anyway, I'd love to read more of Kays' work!

(But I don't belive in a sequel to this one. How ever well written it would feel bland in comparision with the originating story. The exception would be if Kay could come up with some interesting complications, like Alessan turning bad or something and making it an exploration of how a beloved leader is able to surf on his popularity through some though times and how to bring him down... /thinking Castro & Cuba here.../).

I recommend A Song for Arbonne as your next one, Lions of Al-Rassan is good too.

Heck read them all, they're all great, though Kay's Fionavar Tapestry trilogy is perhaps the most classical fantasy tale he's written, with the good, innocent kids versus the seemingly unstoppable evil God - not to say that it isn't a good story, it is, but his works after that are more inline with Tigana...

Thanks! As "classical" fantasy is not my most favourite genre I'll start with some of the other two you mentioned!

I agree with Tane, there's a richness to A Song for Arbonne and Lions of Al-Rassan that isn't there with the Fionavar Tapestry. GGK makes the people and the places and their cultures come alive. The Lions of Al-Rassan is my favorite, with many shades of grey and an ending that is bittersweet.

Sand, you think we should be working for GGK's publishers? We must've increased his sales by now! ;-)

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Tane, I'd settle for lunch with GGK and an autographed copy of Ysabel.

*sends out nudge, nudge, wink, wink thought waves to GGK's people*

Oh yes, good idea... I'm with you there, I'll bring the blue wine :-)

Ooh, yes. A glass of that with GGK and fellow Kayvian would be wonderful :o)

Confession: I haven't read The Last Light of the Sun yet. I have it but, what with kids, work and school, I don't think I'll be able to do it justice. I want to be able to sit and really sink into it without too many other things on my mind. Hopefully this summer I'll get a chance.

GGK is coming to a bookstore near me!! Woohoo! He's going to be in Bolen Books in Victoria on Feb 13, reading and signing. This'll be the closest I get to having lunch with GGk, but I will get my autographed copy of Ysabel :o)

I'm very excited, I've never been to see an author before.

I've already got my copy of Ysabel and couldn't resist starting it before The Deep is Rising.

WOW! I'm jealous. I'm also happy for you, sandragon. That's only a couple of weeks away! We expect a full report on your adventure.

:o)

#17
Oh. Wow!

Sand!!!!!!!!!! That's going to be excellent! I am - of course - completely envious!

Have a great time.

(how is Ysabel? Enjoying it so far?)

Thanks!

I've only had time to read about 15 pages, but I've got a date with Ysabel for tonight and we're going be spending some quality time together (after the kids are in bed) :o)
Different from his other stuff in that it's set in modern day and the main character is a fifteen year old boy with Nikes and an ipod.

One of the things I most liked about Tigana was the fact that it didn't need a sequel, but stood as an entirely self-contained tale. Yes, of course, there's the teaser on the last page, but there's nothing significant left hanging as if to say "my publishers may try to squeeze a few more bucks out of this one".

I finished Ysabel over the weekend and enjoyed it. Not as great as Tigana or The Lions of Al-Rassan but still good. It was lighter fare, lighter even than the Fionavar Tapestry (and with echoes of Fionavar Tapestry as well). And different in that it all happens in modern day France to a fifteen year old boy who gets drawn into a 2500 year old love story. This is also different from GGK's other stuff in that there is no good vs evil. As the story unfolds there are different people who need/want it to end in their way, which makes for another of GGK's bittersweet endings.

#22
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on that one, Sand... how was GGK when you met him? (That has happened, right?)

Not yet, next Tuesday. But I feel like I've done my homework and I'm all prepared :o)

Excellent... you know I'm green with envy, don't you? :-)

Have a great time.

#25 - And here I thought you'd been at the Absinthe I keep locked behind the bar! ;o)

As far as the jealousy goes, Tane...you and me both!!!

#26

*sings* It's not easy being greeeeeeeeeen....

Absinthe, the Green Fairy (I wonder if this group would've been so popular if you'd called it that?), dangerous stuff - or so I'm told. Sadly I didn't live in Paris during the turn of the last, last century, so I wouldn't really know... Although I have seen Moulin Rouge, so I've got a fair idea... it seems that whenever you drink it Kylie Minogue will turn up at your window. Not a bad thing, in my book :-)

And that's how to completely derail a topic... LOL (at least I got the word "book" in that jumbled mess of words up there)

-- can you tell I'm feeling better?

#27 - Oh, were you ill? Did I know this? Did I forget? You must have posted it on one of those places we both visit. *blush* So sorry.

And let me just say BWAA HAA HAA HAA to this:

"the Green Fairy (I wonder if this group would've been so popular if you'd called it that?)"

I'm guessing we'd have a slightly different mix in here with that name.

#28
I did post it "elsewhere", but honestly it's nothing much... I think I finally caught that cold/flu that you had a while back... I'm over it now though, in the most part, still got a nice bit of a cough to keep me going :P

and getting back to a GGK theme, I see that Ysabel isn't published here in the UK until March 5th... so, only a month to go, hooray.