1Majel-Susan
And here at last is the final thread for That Hideous Strength, the third and last installment of C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy!
I've only just finished the first chapter today, so I will hopefully be able to update the thread soon. :D
For handy reference (mine mainly XD), here are the links to our previous Space Trilogy threads:
Out of the Silent Planet: https://www.librarything.com/topic/319436
Perelandra: https://www.librarything.com/topic/320937
Once again, everyone is welcome to come and join the fun!
I've only just finished the first chapter today, so I will hopefully be able to update the thread soon. :D
For handy reference (mine mainly XD), here are the links to our previous Space Trilogy threads:
Out of the Silent Planet: https://www.librarything.com/topic/319436
Perelandra: https://www.librarything.com/topic/320937
Once again, everyone is welcome to come and join the fun!
2Majel-Susan
Ch 1
"Matrimony was ordained, thirdly," said Jane Studdock to herself, "for the mutual society, help, and comfort that the one ought to have of the other." Thirdly. Yeah, that one would probably stick with me too, especially if that were the "welcome back" specially prepared for getting married.
Haha, I like the preview of Jane's married life, which I highly suspect is different from how Mark sees his married life. This makes me think of how people say that one should get married, have a romantic relationship, etc., when I kinda feel that marriage often just becomes a gateway to another more inescapable kind of loneliness. But what do I know anyway?
In the meantime, Mark is enjoying his initiation into the "Progressive Element."
Curry is not giving me trustworthy vibes. This passage reminded me of an essay Lewis wrote, "The Inner Ring":
Also, Lord Feverstone insisted that he wanted Mark, whom he had never met, on the fellowship? I'm suspicious.
I wonder if the order of the college propositions was deliberate: present the College with two financial problems, one of which they are bound to be deeply invested in, that is, the "Rectification of an anomaly of the Stipends of Junior Fellows," then show them the hopelessness of both, and after lunchtime, present a brilliant solution that will solve both problems, all steered and maneuvered, it seems to me, courtesy of Feverstone, Curry, and Busby...
I hope that I won't miss out on too much, not knowing anything about Merlin or Arthurian legend. I've recently started reading Mythology by Edith Hamilton, but otherwise I'm an absolute heathen when it comes to any kind of mythology...
On a side note, just as my e-library decided to reduce the number of copies available for The Space Trilogy, a sudden queue for the book has appeared, which did not exist last month. I'm the 7th person on the waitlist for 3 copies, with an estimated wait time of 4 weeks, so I've currently taken to reading it online on Faded Page... I'm just slightly surprised to find that this version has chapter titles, whereas the copy I had been borrowing never had any.
"Matrimony was ordained, thirdly," said Jane Studdock to herself, "for the mutual society, help, and comfort that the one ought to have of the other." Thirdly. Yeah, that one would probably stick with me too, especially if that were the "welcome back" specially prepared for getting married.
Haha, I like the preview of Jane's married life, which I highly suspect is different from how Mark sees his married life. This makes me think of how people say that one should get married, have a romantic relationship, etc., when I kinda feel that marriage often just becomes a gateway to another more inescapable kind of loneliness. But what do I know anyway?
In the meantime, Mark is enjoying his initiation into the "Progressive Element."
You would never have guessed from the tone of Studdock’s reply what intense pleasure he derived from Curry’s use of the pronoun “we.” So very recently he had been an outsider, watching the proceedings of what he then called “Curry and his gang” with awe and with little understanding, and making at College meetings short, nervous speeches which never influenced the course of events. Now he was inside, and “Curry and his gang” had become “we” or “the progressive element in College.” It had all happened quite suddenly and was still sweet in the mouth.
Curry is not giving me trustworthy vibes. This passage reminded me of an essay Lewis wrote, "The Inner Ring":
To nine out of ten of you the choice which could lead to scoundrelism will come, when it does come, in no very dramatic colours... It will be the hint of something which is not quite in accordance with the technical rules of fair play: something which the public, the ignorant, romantic public, would never understand: something which even the outsiders in your own profession are apt to make a fuss about: but something, says your new friend, which “we”—and at the word “we” you try not to blush for mere pleasure—something “we always do”... Of all passions the passion for the Inner Ring is most skilful in making a man who is not yet a very bad man do very bad things.
Also, Lord Feverstone insisted that he wanted Mark, whom he had never met, on the fellowship? I'm suspicious.
I wonder if the order of the college propositions was deliberate: present the College with two financial problems, one of which they are bound to be deeply invested in, that is, the "Rectification of an anomaly of the Stipends of Junior Fellows," then show them the hopelessness of both, and after lunchtime, present a brilliant solution that will solve both problems, all steered and maneuvered, it seems to me, courtesy of Feverstone, Curry, and Busby...
I hope that I won't miss out on too much, not knowing anything about Merlin or Arthurian legend. I've recently started reading Mythology by Edith Hamilton, but otherwise I'm an absolute heathen when it comes to any kind of mythology...
On a side note, just as my e-library decided to reduce the number of copies available for The Space Trilogy, a sudden queue for the book has appeared, which did not exist last month. I'm the 7th person on the waitlist for 3 copies, with an estimated wait time of 4 weeks, so I've currently taken to reading it online on Faded Page... I'm just slightly surprised to find that this version has chapter titles, whereas the copy I had been borrowing never had any.
3haydninvienna
>2 Majel-Susan: You probably do need to know at least the basic outline of the Arthur story, including the legend of the Grail, but (again—sorry to keep banging on about it) get Arthurian Torso from Faded Page. It will tell you all you need to know.
4Majel-Susan
>3 haydninvienna: Haha, okay, I'll read Arthurian Torso!
5Majel-Susan
Ch 2
Ooh, Feverstone and Mark discuss Weston and the murdering "respectable Cambridge don with weak eyes, a game leg, and a fair beard." I wonder how that story got out... Perhaps Curry and Busby don't know as much as I first suspected, but Feverstone appears to be the real player here; I can see him maneuvering around Mark now.
A certain indefinable defensiveness had momentarily deserted her. He had known such occasions before, but they were rare. They were already becoming rarer. And they tended, in his experience, to be followed next day by inexplicable quarrels.
I'm rather enjoying how the narrative switches between husband and wife, such as when we get to see the buildup of what Jane has been going through during the day and then how all of this crashes at the end of the day on Mark and he has no idea what hit him. Their different points of view are also interesting: while Jane's mind flits from one thing to another, her dream, her marriage, her work, etc., Mark stays focused on the day and the tasks ahead, and what needs to be done and achieved. It's nice; I like it.
Ooh, Feverstone and Mark discuss Weston and the murdering "respectable Cambridge don with weak eyes, a game leg, and a fair beard." I wonder how that story got out... Perhaps Curry and Busby don't know as much as I first suspected, but Feverstone appears to be the real player here; I can see him maneuvering around Mark now.
A certain indefinable defensiveness had momentarily deserted her. He had known such occasions before, but they were rare. They were already becoming rarer. And they tended, in his experience, to be followed next day by inexplicable quarrels.
I'm rather enjoying how the narrative switches between husband and wife, such as when we get to see the buildup of what Jane has been going through during the day and then how all of this crashes at the end of the day on Mark and he has no idea what hit him. Their different points of view are also interesting: while Jane's mind flits from one thing to another, her dream, her marriage, her work, etc., Mark stays focused on the day and the tasks ahead, and what needs to be done and achieved. It's nice; I like it.
6Majel-Susan
Ch 3
All this secretiveness over what Mark's role in N.I.C.E. will be and the unstated expectation that he should accept the job before being told what he will be doing is soo suspicious. It reminded me of the Devs miniseries I watched with my sister earlier this year, in whichno one knew before accpeting their job there what Devs did, and even then, they didn't fully realise the scope of Devs' function until the end when they saw the cumulative product of all their efforts. The whole plot was also very conspiracy-focused. Fascinating stuff...
Oh, goodness, do I know those "outsider" vibes!
Mark, listen to Hingest! He knows what's about! Also, I'm highly suspicious of why it seems that N.I.C.E. to zooming in to Mark out of everyone.
Ooh, Jane has the gift of vision? While Feverstone is telling Mark, "It is of such immense importance to each of us to choose the right side. If you try to be neutral you become simply a pawn," Miss Ironwood is telling Jane, "You may tell someone else about it. If you do that, I warn you that you will almost certainly fall into the hands of other people who are at least as anxious as we to make use of your faculty and who will care no more about your life and happiness than about those of a fly... I would advise you, even for your own sake, to join our side."
It will be such fun drama if Mark and Jane, unbeknownst to each other, get pitted on opposite sides of a conflict, and then it will be interesting to see how they find out what's been going on with the other, before piecing together a larger, more complete picture of what really is going on.
Nice to have a wife, hey, Mark? Better to go back to her... Where's the husband when the wife is going through a crisis?!!
Haha, I think I'm enjoying the starting chapters of this book much faster than I did the previous two. XD
All this secretiveness over what Mark's role in N.I.C.E. will be and the unstated expectation that he should accept the job before being told what he will be doing is soo suspicious. It reminded me of the Devs miniseries I watched with my sister earlier this year, in which
Oh, goodness, do I know those "outsider" vibes!
Mark, listen to Hingest! He knows what's about! Also, I'm highly suspicious of why it seems that N.I.C.E. to zooming in to Mark out of everyone.
Ooh, Jane has the gift of vision? While Feverstone is telling Mark, "It is of such immense importance to each of us to choose the right side. If you try to be neutral you become simply a pawn," Miss Ironwood is telling Jane, "You may tell someone else about it. If you do that, I warn you that you will almost certainly fall into the hands of other people who are at least as anxious as we to make use of your faculty and who will care no more about your life and happiness than about those of a fly... I would advise you, even for your own sake, to join our side."
It will be such fun drama if Mark and Jane, unbeknownst to each other, get pitted on opposite sides of a conflict, and then it will be interesting to see how they find out what's been going on with the other, before piecing together a larger, more complete picture of what really is going on.
Thank goodness he had allowed Jane to talk him into buying that new dress-suit!
Nice to have a wife, hey, Mark? Better to go back to her... Where's the husband when the wife is going through a crisis?!!
Haha, I think I'm enjoying the starting chapters of this book much faster than I did the previous two. XD
7Majel-Susan
Ch 4
"No one goes out of the N.I.C.E. Those who try to turn back will perish in the wilderness."
I suppose that's what happened to Hingest. Bumped off by the "Fairy" would be my guess...
These last two chapters, what with plans to "re-educate" and to frame their affairs just so, all this manipulation, has been making me think of Nineteen Eighty-Four.
"No one goes out of the N.I.C.E. Those who try to turn back will perish in the wilderness."
I suppose that's what happened to Hingest. Bumped off by the "Fairy" would be my guess...
These last two chapters, what with plans to "re-educate" and to frame their affairs just so, all this manipulation, has been making me think of Nineteen Eighty-Four.
8Majel-Susan
Ch 5
"I don’t think it’s lucky to leave the N.I.C.E. You needn't bother your head about all the Steeles and Cossers... Not one of them is going to be left when we get going." Wow. That's threatening...
His other and far stronger self, the self that was anxious at all costs not to be placed among the outsiders, leaped up, fully alarmed. The Inner Ring again...
Mark messing up both at Bracton and at the N.I.C.E. looks like a social nightmare to me. Feverstone is turning out to be a nasty, manipulative piece of work. Also, I can see why now Feverstone considered Denniston was so absolutely "unacceptable" for the fellowship.
I confess that if I were coming in new to this book and didn't know who "Mr. Fisher-King" were, I would probably be equally suspicious of his circle. They are, after all, asking for an unquestioning trust not dissimilar to N.I.C.E., albeit with fewer threatening vibes.
"I don’t think it’s lucky to leave the N.I.C.E. You needn't bother your head about all the Steeles and Cossers... Not one of them is going to be left when we get going." Wow. That's threatening...
His other and far stronger self, the self that was anxious at all costs not to be placed among the outsiders, leaped up, fully alarmed. The Inner Ring again...
Mark messing up both at Bracton and at the N.I.C.E. looks like a social nightmare to me. Feverstone is turning out to be a nasty, manipulative piece of work. Also, I can see why now Feverstone considered Denniston was so absolutely "unacceptable" for the fellowship.
I confess that if I were coming in new to this book and didn't know who "Mr. Fisher-King" were, I would probably be equally suspicious of his circle. They are, after all, asking for an unquestioning trust not dissimilar to N.I.C.E., albeit with fewer threatening vibes.
9Majel-Susan
Ch 6
I don't know what the norms would be for most couples, much less what it was back in the 40s, but it seems highly unfortunate to take a new job elsewhere and not take your wife with you. I understand perhaps if the wife has a job and the couple can't afford to relocate to be together (though, that is still less than ideal), but Jane does seem ready and waiting for Mark to ask her over...
All of this propaganda with N.I.C.E. is feeling very dystopian, or like the precursor of a 1984 Big Brother style "politics."
It all slipped past in a chatter of laughter, of that intimate laughter between fellow professionals, which of all earthly powers is strongest to make men do very bad things before they are yet, individually, very bad men.
The emphasis on the "inner ring" and the human need to feel accepted comes up again and again, so on a hunch, I looked up the essay again and found that Lewis delivered his "Inner Ring" lecture in 1944, just a year before That Hideous Strength was published. Must have been a thing going on in Lewis' mind at that time... Mark is like "The Inner Ring" essay become a cautionary tale.
I don't know what the norms would be for most couples, much less what it was back in the 40s, but it seems highly unfortunate to take a new job elsewhere and not take your wife with you. I understand perhaps if the wife has a job and the couple can't afford to relocate to be together (though, that is still less than ideal), but Jane does seem ready and waiting for Mark to ask her over...
All of this propaganda with N.I.C.E. is feeling very dystopian, or like the precursor of a 1984 Big Brother style "politics."
It all slipped past in a chatter of laughter, of that intimate laughter between fellow professionals, which of all earthly powers is strongest to make men do very bad things before they are yet, individually, very bad men.
The emphasis on the "inner ring" and the human need to feel accepted comes up again and again, so on a hunch, I looked up the essay again and found that Lewis delivered his "Inner Ring" lecture in 1944, just a year before That Hideous Strength was published. Must have been a thing going on in Lewis' mind at that time... Mark is like "The Inner Ring" essay become a cautionary tale.
10hfglen
>9 Majel-Susan: "I don't know what the norms would be for most couples, much less what it was back in the 40s, but it seems highly unfortunate to take a new job elsewhere and not take your wife with you."
That aspect didn't worry me when I read the book many years ago. I can't answer for California in 1849 or Australia in 1851 (there are Dragoneers who can at length), but I can offer a parallel from when diamonds (1867 on) and gold (1876 on) were found in South Africa. The early prospectors arrived, each alone, in droves, the married ones intending to make enough money to bring their wives later. Mostly they died penniless. It was really only when the deep mines started on the Witwatersrand (say 1895) that it became usual for miners to move en famille. Mainly because by that time the day of the solo, independent prospector/miner was definitely over and one worked for a large company.
That aspect didn't worry me when I read the book many years ago. I can't answer for California in 1849 or Australia in 1851 (there are Dragoneers who can at length), but I can offer a parallel from when diamonds (1867 on) and gold (1876 on) were found in South Africa. The early prospectors arrived, each alone, in droves, the married ones intending to make enough money to bring their wives later. Mostly they died penniless. It was really only when the deep mines started on the Witwatersrand (say 1895) that it became usual for miners to move en famille. Mainly because by that time the day of the solo, independent prospector/miner was definitely over and one worked for a large company.
11Majel-Susan
>10 hfglen: Well, I guess it's not an uncommon arrangement, but Mark's choices lately aren't doing many favours for his character.
12Majel-Susan
Ch 7
Wow. Ransom got transformed into... something else... He almost doesn't even feel human anymore.
Well, I don't know about their discussion on marriage and equality; it didn't quite agree with me, but I generally feel pretty mixed about discussions of Christian marriage and equality... I gotta say that Mark does not look remotely in a condition to be "obeyed," especially not in his present circumstances.
Ugh. Manipulators in a story, they make me cross: Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights, the Pigs in Animal Farm, and the Big Brother lot in 1984 come to mind.... It just might be time to add N.I.C.E. to the list.
Poor Jane. No more home. Nearly as good as no husband either. Life is unfair.
Wow. Ransom got transformed into... something else... He almost doesn't even feel human anymore.
Well, I don't know about their discussion on marriage and equality; it didn't quite agree with me, but I generally feel pretty mixed about discussions of Christian marriage and equality... I gotta say that Mark does not look remotely in a condition to be "obeyed," especially not in his present circumstances.
Ugh. Manipulators in a story, they make me cross: Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights, the Pigs in Animal Farm, and the Big Brother lot in 1984 come to mind.... It just might be time to add N.I.C.E. to the list.
Poor Jane. No more home. Nearly as good as no husband either. Life is unfair.
13Sakerfalcon
I read That hideous strength this weekend, the fastest read of the trilogy! And, IMO, the best. I was immediately drawn in by Jane, and then by the satire on academia and its politics, loved the skill with which the Progressive Element manipulated the meeting agenda to get what they wanted. The first mention of NICE rang alarm bells for me - anything with an acronym like that is suspicious! And then to find our old friend Devine backing it - a sure sign of trouble.
I found the dialogues in this book to be far a far more realistic representation of how people converse than the monologues expounding theological and philosophical points that dominated the other two volumes. This made the book far more readable and engaging for me. Admittedly there were 3 or 4 sections of expository dialogues but thankfully they were quite short.
Mark's longing to be an insider is powerfully evoked, and something most of us can empathise with even while shaking our heads at his decisions. Jane, on the other hand, seems quite self-sufficient, reluctant to get involved in the group to which she is invited - a strong contrast to her husband's impulsiveness in this respect.
>9 Majel-Susan:, >10 hfglen: I saw this as Mark getting sucked into NICE so quickly that he didn't really get a chance even to tell Jane what was happening, let alone make arrangements for her to join him. Their separation seemed plausible to me in the context of events.
>12 Majel-Susan: This conversation and the view of marriage expressed didn't really appeal to me either. I felt that the issue is dealt with better later in the book when it is clearer that obedience is mutual rather than just for the wife
I can see this book working pretty well as a standalone, other than the fact of the eldil and Maleldil coming out of nowhere to a new reader. From the previous books we already know that these are forces for good and need little explanation but I don't know how a new reader would find that.
I found the dialogues in this book to be far a far more realistic representation of how people converse than the monologues expounding theological and philosophical points that dominated the other two volumes. This made the book far more readable and engaging for me. Admittedly there were 3 or 4 sections of expository dialogues but thankfully they were quite short.
Mark's longing to be an insider is powerfully evoked, and something most of us can empathise with even while shaking our heads at his decisions. Jane, on the other hand, seems quite self-sufficient, reluctant to get involved in the group to which she is invited - a strong contrast to her husband's impulsiveness in this respect.
>9 Majel-Susan:, >10 hfglen: I saw this as Mark getting sucked into NICE so quickly that he didn't really get a chance even to tell Jane what was happening, let alone make arrangements for her to join him. Their separation seemed plausible to me in the context of events.
>12 Majel-Susan: This conversation and the view of marriage expressed didn't really appeal to me either. I felt that the issue is dealt with better later in the book when it is clearer that
I can see this book working pretty well as a standalone, other than the fact of the eldil and Maleldil coming out of nowhere to a new reader. From the previous books we already know that these are forces for good and need little explanation but I don't know how a new reader would find that.
14Majel-Susan
>13 Sakerfalcon: Ooh, you've finished!! I'm still only two-thirds through, but I've been pretty busy packing and travelling these past days. Now, though, that I'm back in Asia and quarantining for the next two weeks, I expect that I should have plenty of time. :)
But, yes, I found the story very interesting and easy to get into from the get-go, and the dialogue is much more natural. Mark, too, is a very human and fallible, and I like how we get drawn in to his need to be included and we are invited to sympathise and understand him better than he understands himself.
I'm hoping, though, that I will see more of Mark and Jane interacting. There hasn't been much of that for me so far.
Thanks, Claire, for joining me on my Space Trilogy read, by the way! ❤️
But, yes, I found the story very interesting and easy to get into from the get-go, and the dialogue is much more natural. Mark, too, is a very human and fallible, and I like how we get drawn in to his need to be included and we are invited to sympathise and understand him better than he understands himself.
I'm hoping, though, that I will see more of Mark and Jane interacting. There hasn't been much of that for me so far.
Thanks, Claire, for joining me on my Space Trilogy read, by the way! ❤️
15Majel-Susan
Ch 8
I want to have a Mr Bultitude come and live in my house. Actually, on top of that, I need a house large enough to keep him, too.
Kinda feel meh about the St. Anne's company and the constant harping on the whole men/women thing. Also, huge coincidence that everyone from Jane's circle turned out to be involved in this secret society. Wierds me a bit.
When the time came, and the local unpopularity of the N.I.C.E. rose to its height, he (Feverstone) could be sacrificed. This, of course, was not said in so many words, but Mark realised perfectly clearly that even Feverstone was no longer quite in the Inner Ring.
Woah, the inner ring appears to have multiple layers where eventually everyone is apparently disposable.
Obviously I don't know how the story between Mark and Jane will progress, but in a "real -life" equivalent, this is where it falls apart.
"If you try to go back you will be as unfortunate as the fool Hingest." Basically a blank confession, and Mark doesn't even blink. Yep, he's in pretty deep.
Wow. The Head is a literal head? I think Mark's world has just been "unmade," similar to Jane's when she meets Ransom, only, of course, in a bad way... a very bad way.
I want to have a Mr Bultitude come and live in my house. Actually, on top of that, I need a house large enough to keep him, too.
Kinda feel meh about the St. Anne's company and the constant harping on the whole men/women thing. Also, huge coincidence that everyone from Jane's circle turned out to be involved in this secret society. Wierds me a bit.
When the time came, and the local unpopularity of the N.I.C.E. rose to its height, he (Feverstone) could be sacrificed. This, of course, was not said in so many words, but Mark realised perfectly clearly that even Feverstone was no longer quite in the Inner Ring.
Woah, the inner ring appears to have multiple layers where eventually everyone is apparently disposable.
Obviously I don't know how the story between Mark and Jane will progress, but in a "real -life" equivalent, this is where it falls apart.
"If you try to go back you will be as unfortunate as the fool Hingest." Basically a blank confession, and Mark doesn't even blink. Yep, he's in pretty deep.
Wow. The Head is a literal head? I think Mark's world has just been "unmade," similar to Jane's when she meets Ransom, only, of course, in a bad way... a very bad way.
16Majel-Susan
Ch 9
He had never been there when a small shopkeeper went to the workhouse or a starved old woman of the governess type came to the very last day and hour and minute in the cold attic. He knew nothing about the last half-cup of cocoa drunk slowly ten days before.
I like that. Also, it's really time to go back to the wife, only it looks like it might be too late for Mark.
Wow. I never connected Devine with Feverstone! How could I miss it when I remember now that it was right there in Chapter 1!!
I also want a Baron Corvo...
I understand how Jane got recruited, but I still don't understand how so many from her social circle had already been in on this whole thing for goodness knows how long before Jane herself got involved.
He had never been there when a small shopkeeper went to the workhouse or a starved old woman of the governess type came to the very last day and hour and minute in the cold attic. He knew nothing about the last half-cup of cocoa drunk slowly ten days before.
I like that. Also, it's really time to go back to the wife, only it looks like it might be too late for Mark.
Wow. I never connected Devine with Feverstone! How could I miss it when I remember now that it was right there in Chapter 1!!
I also want a Baron Corvo...
I understand how Jane got recruited, but I still don't understand how so many from her social circle had already been in on this whole thing for goodness knows how long before Jane herself got involved.
17Sakerfalcon
>15 Majel-Susan: Mr Bultitude! I love Mr Bultitude!
18haydninvienna
>15 Majel-Susan: >17 Sakerfalcon: Ivy giving him a tin of golden syrup every week: Goodness occurred and he tasted it ...
19Majel-Susan
>17 Sakerfalcon: I love Mr Bultitude too!
>18 haydninvienna: If we are what we eat, Mr Bultitude is made of only the good stuff!
>18 haydninvienna: If we are what we eat, Mr Bultitude is made of only the good stuff!
20Majel-Susan
Ch 10-11
I rather enjoyed Mark and Dimble's discourse, as well as the way that their mutual distaste for each other inevitably and subtly surfaced in their interaction despite their best efforts to suppress and conceal it. I hope also that Mark will be able to properly appreciate the danger that Jane is in. It's just lucky for Dimble that he's a "non-entity" and at the bottom of the Fairy's suspect list.
Miss Hardcastle had the feeling that a mere mask of skin and flesh was staring at her. A moment later and she was gone.
If even the Fairy feels it, you know it's serious stuff!
Also...
Um... what the heck is happening?
"One would not wish the young man to relieve any nervous tension that may have arisen by smoking. One wishes the mind to be thrown entirely on its own resources."
I don't know that plan is working out the way that Wither is hoping...
Poor Mark. Now he sees how stupid and sad his life has been... Mark and Jane's marriage is pretty depressing, like they each feel that the other doesn't really care and they themselves each feel pretty lukewarmly about the other. It will be interesting to see how things turn out...
I rather enjoyed Mark and Dimble's discourse, as well as the way that their mutual distaste for each other inevitably and subtly surfaced in their interaction despite their best efforts to suppress and conceal it. I hope also that Mark will be able to properly appreciate the danger that Jane is in. It's just lucky for Dimble that he's a "non-entity" and at the bottom of the Fairy's suspect list.
Miss Hardcastle had the feeling that a mere mask of skin and flesh was staring at her. A moment later and she was gone.
If even the Fairy feels it, you know it's serious stuff!
Also...
Suddenly in that silent room there was a crash. Who’s Who had fallen off the table, swept onto the floor as, with sudden, swift convulsive movement, the two old men lurched forward towards each other and sat swaying to and fro, locked in an embrace from which each seemed to be struggling to escape. And as they swayed and scrabbled with hand and nail, there arose, shrill and faint at first, but then louder and louder, a cackling noise that seemed in the end rather an animal than a senile parody of laughter.
Um... what the heck is happening?
"One would not wish the young man to relieve any nervous tension that may have arisen by smoking. One wishes the mind to be thrown entirely on its own resources."
I don't know that plan is working out the way that Wither is hoping...
Poor Mark. Now he sees how stupid and sad his life has been... Mark and Jane's marriage is pretty depressing, like they each feel that the other doesn't really care and they themselves each feel pretty lukewarmly about the other. It will be interesting to see how things turn out...
21Majel-Susan
Ch 13
Looks like everybody has their own personal Merlin now...
MacPhee, Ransom's horse-boy? Haha, he wouldn't like that... In fact, it doesn't seem that most of the household likes Merlinus much, if at all.
Twenty-three years old, married since only six months, and Merlin expects Jane to have had a child already?
I kinda really enjoyed this scene where Merlin wants Jane's head "cut from her shoulders; for it is a weariness to look at her," Dimble calls Merlin a "bloodthirsty old man," MacPhee compares Ransom's dress to a pantomine and Merlin to a "yogi, or shaman, or priest," and Ransom tries to pacify all of them, while Jane stares on with no idea what is going on. It was a very serious moment, but, nonetheless, pretty hilarious!
Dimble says it quite plainly: "We're going to have difficulties with that new colleague of ours." XD
I also like how Merlin's redemption is woven into the plot, as something smaller, but bigger in that it is extremely personal, that plays into the larger frame of the story. That's nice.
It's a funny switch how in the previous two books, it's Ransom who enters into unfamiliar worlds as the odd and uncultured idiot who interacts with the local inhabitants and the Oyeresu, and this time it's Merlin returned some eight centuries after his time to present himself to this modern twentieth century household, with Ransom now acting as the Pendragon. Oh, Ransom, you've come a long, long way!
Looks like everybody has their own personal Merlin now...
MacPhee, Ransom's horse-boy? Haha, he wouldn't like that... In fact, it doesn't seem that most of the household likes Merlinus much, if at all.
Twenty-three years old, married since only six months, and Merlin expects Jane to have had a child already?
I kinda really enjoyed this scene where Merlin wants Jane's head "cut from her shoulders; for it is a weariness to look at her," Dimble calls Merlin a "bloodthirsty old man," MacPhee compares Ransom's dress to a pantomine and Merlin to a "yogi, or shaman, or priest," and Ransom tries to pacify all of them, while Jane stares on with no idea what is going on. It was a very serious moment, but, nonetheless, pretty hilarious!
Dimble says it quite plainly: "We're going to have difficulties with that new colleague of ours." XD
I also like how Merlin's redemption is woven into the plot, as something smaller, but bigger in that it is extremely personal, that plays into the larger frame of the story. That's nice.
It's a funny switch how in the previous two books, it's Ransom who enters into unfamiliar worlds as the odd and uncultured idiot who interacts with the local inhabitants and the Oyeresu, and this time it's Merlin returned some eight centuries after his time to present himself to this modern twentieth century household, with Ransom now acting as the Pendragon. Oh, Ransom, you've come a long, long way!
22Majel-Susan
Ch 14
A man of trained sensibility would have seen at once that the room was ill proportioned, not grotesquely so but sufficiently to produce dislike.
Not a room I think I would like to be stuck in. It reminded me a bit of The Haunting of Hill House where every angle was "slightly wrong" and just subtly disconcerting.
Haha, N.I.C.E. picked up a tramp for Merlin! And they're so convinced they only ever speak Latin to him! The tramp probably thinks that they are absolutely batty, but at least he eats well at their expense! I love how understated Lewis' humour is!
Poor Mr Bultitude! Kidnapped! With no more golden syrup, too! Also, it's curious how N.I.C.E. and Ransom's Company seem to mirror each other, each having their own Merlin (haha!) and their own bears...
Jane and the Director are a bit of a miss for me again, but... hmm... okay.
On a side note, it sounds crazy but I think I'm losing my appetite with three-meals-a-day quarantine room service. I'm fussier than I would have hoped...
A man of trained sensibility would have seen at once that the room was ill proportioned, not grotesquely so but sufficiently to produce dislike.
Not a room I think I would like to be stuck in. It reminded me a bit of The Haunting of Hill House where every angle was "slightly wrong" and just subtly disconcerting.
Haha, N.I.C.E. picked up a tramp for Merlin! And they're so convinced they only ever speak Latin to him! The tramp probably thinks that they are absolutely batty, but at least he eats well at their expense! I love how understated Lewis' humour is!
Poor Mr Bultitude! Kidnapped! With no more golden syrup, too! Also, it's curious how N.I.C.E. and Ransom's Company seem to mirror each other, each having their own Merlin (haha!) and their own bears...
Jane and the Director are a bit of a miss for me again, but... hmm... okay.
On a side note, it sounds crazy but I think I'm losing my appetite with three-meals-a-day quarantine room service. I'm fussier than I would have hoped...
23haydninvienna
>22 Majel-Susan: re your 14-days hotel quarantine: at one stage I was investigating the idea of taking some leave back in England, which would have meant 14 days quarantine at home there and another 14 in a hotel here on return. It was quite startling how insistent the local authorities were that I would not be permitted to leave the hotel room under any circumstances whatsoever.
absolutely batty: as I recall the tramp is described as thinking exactly that, at a point that you probably haven't reached yet.
absolutely batty: as I recall the tramp is described as thinking exactly that, at a point that you probably haven't reached yet.
24Majel-Susan
>23 haydninvienna: Yep, the quarantine authorities are calling us twice a day with video-calls so that they can see us and ask to be shown the hotel room and/or the hotel logo. Plus, every other day the quarantine folks will ring our bell and ask to see our ID cards. In addition, the hotel has not provided us with any key cards, which means that if someone leaves the room and takes the lift down, the only way back into the room would be the embarrassment of appealing to the front desk before being charged with an offense by the government. Oh, and I nearly forgot: there might be a fascinating piece published in the news about the luckless offender. Yes, news is a little slow here.
25Majel-Susan
Exciting stuff! I finished reading today.
Ch 15-16
Merlin was soo much fun! I loved the comedy that followed the moment that he entered the tramp's room! Magic is so fun! I want in too! Haha, but, nah.
Of course, all this was not to the tramp what it would have been to anyone who made an educated and wealthy man’s demands upon the universe. It was, no doubt, a “rum do”—the rummest do that had ever befallen him.
No kidding!
It was absolutely killing when Wither had to present a full cast of irrelevant members to Jules, particularly, the sleeping soon-to-be-eminent "Dr Ambrosius" (actually just a tramp) and his "interpreter."
And it was so wildly hilarious how Frost, Wither, and Mark, gradually, and each in his own fashion, became aware of the gibberish Jules was spouting. That slow dawning of madness was absolute comedic fun, and then the Fairy showed up on the scene and the rest just went to horror. Haha, I loved it!
He hesitated. The stranger stood back from him for a second, then, with his open hand, struck him on the back; Mark’s bones ached at the memory as long as he lived. Next moment he found himself running as he had never run since boyhood; not in fear, but because his legs would not stop.
Mark, ever hesitating. Merlin probably looked at him and decided, No time to waste watching this boy hesitate.
All the human pawns/villains met with pretty satisfying defeats, but for me, Frost's demise was the most fascinating. Not for anything, even when faced with his own error and his imminent death, would he separate himself from his life's illusion that he had no free will, no agency of his own. His fate was total irony realised, as he was finally fed the reality of Hell that he had already embraced, in theory, throughout his life when he had still had a choice: That tiresome illusion, his consciousness, was screaming in protest: his body, even had he wished, had no power to attend to those screams.
Ch 15-16
Merlin was soo much fun! I loved the comedy that followed the moment that he entered the tramp's room! Magic is so fun! I want in too! Haha, but, nah.
Of course, all this was not to the tramp what it would have been to anyone who made an educated and wealthy man’s demands upon the universe. It was, no doubt, a “rum do”—the rummest do that had ever befallen him.
No kidding!
It was a minor nuisance that ever since their visit to the Objective Room he had been compelled to have both Frost and Studdock in attendance. Nor did it mend matters that as they approached Jules, and all eyes were fixed upon them, the pseudo-Merlin collapsed into a chair, muttering, and closed his eyes. . . .
"His name is . . . er . . . Ambrosius. Dr. Ambrosius, you know. . . . He lives rather in a world of his own."
It was absolutely killing when Wither had to present a full cast of irrelevant members to Jules, particularly, the sleeping soon-to-be-eminent "Dr Ambrosius" (actually just a tramp) and his "interpreter."
And it was so wildly hilarious how Frost, Wither, and Mark, gradually, and each in his own fashion, became aware of the gibberish Jules was spouting. That slow dawning of madness was absolute comedic fun, and then the Fairy showed up on the scene and the rest just went to horror. Haha, I loved it!
He hesitated. The stranger stood back from him for a second, then, with his open hand, struck him on the back; Mark’s bones ached at the memory as long as he lived. Next moment he found himself running as he had never run since boyhood; not in fear, but because his legs would not stop.
Mark, ever hesitating. Merlin probably looked at him and decided, No time to waste watching this boy hesitate.
All the human pawns/villains met with pretty satisfying defeats, but for me, Frost's demise was the most fascinating. Not for anything, even when faced with his own error and his imminent death, would he separate himself from his life's illusion that he had no free will, no agency of his own. His fate was total irony realised, as he was finally fed the reality of Hell that he had already embraced, in theory, throughout his life when he had still had a choice: That tiresome illusion, his consciousness, was screaming in protest: his body, even had he wished, had no power to attend to those screams.
26Majel-Susan
Ch 17
"I think," said MacPhee, "I'll away down to my office and cast some accounts. I'd feel easier in my mind if I were inside and the door locked before any crocodiles or kangaroos start courting in the middle of all my files. There'd better be one man about the place keep his head this night, for the rest of you are clean daft. Good night, ladies."
I think I'm with MacPhee on this one! XD
I'm very happy for Ransom that he will finally be going back to Perelandra. I had been considering since meeting Ransom again, how utterly depressing it must be to have tasted the unblemished fruits of unfallen worlds, spoken directly with the pure eternals, to have been drawn so very close to Eternity, and yet be unable to heal, to age, and to pass from the Earth to that Other World.
Similarly, I think it must have been quite dreadful for Merlin to have had his life suspended for a full eight centuries, and I am also glad that he was granted his final rest.
As for Mark and Jane, it turned out all right enough for me, as Sakerfalcon pointed out in >13 Sakerfalcon:
I felt that the issue is dealt with better later in the book when it is clearer thatobedience is mutual rather than just for the wife
Overall, That Hideous Strength made for very enjoyable reading, and I'd rank it at least as good as Out of the Silent Planet.
Lewis' Space Trilogy has been loads of fun, especially reading it in a group. I didn't actually expect that the group read would have enough interest to last the three books, so once again, thanks to everybody who joined in the read, as well as those who hung around to read about me rambling on and on every chapter. And, yay, just like that, we've finished!
"I think," said MacPhee, "I'll away down to my office and cast some accounts. I'd feel easier in my mind if I were inside and the door locked before any crocodiles or kangaroos start courting in the middle of all my files. There'd better be one man about the place keep his head this night, for the rest of you are clean daft. Good night, ladies."
I think I'm with MacPhee on this one! XD
I'm very happy for Ransom that he will finally be going back to Perelandra. I had been considering since meeting Ransom again, how utterly depressing it must be to have tasted the unblemished fruits of unfallen worlds, spoken directly with the pure eternals, to have been drawn so very close to Eternity, and yet be unable to heal, to age, and to pass from the Earth to that Other World.
Similarly, I think it must have been quite dreadful for Merlin to have had his life suspended for a full eight centuries, and I am also glad that he was granted his final rest.
As for Mark and Jane, it turned out all right enough for me, as Sakerfalcon pointed out in >13 Sakerfalcon:
I felt that the issue is dealt with better later in the book when it is clearer that
Overall, That Hideous Strength made for very enjoyable reading, and I'd rank it at least as good as Out of the Silent Planet.
Lewis' Space Trilogy has been loads of fun, especially reading it in a group. I didn't actually expect that the group read would have enough interest to last the three books, so once again, thanks to everybody who joined in the read, as well as those who hung around to read about me rambling on and on every chapter. And, yay, just like that, we've finished!
27Sakerfalcon
>26 Majel-Susan: Thank you for inviting us to join you on this voyage to unknown places! My copy of the trilogy has been sitting on my shelf unread for over 20 years, so it was great to finally get to it! I very much enjoyed your detailed insights into the books. If I were to rate the individual volumes I'd give Out of the silent planet 3 stars, Perelandra 1 and That hideous strength 4. That's purely in terms of my personal enjoyment of the books, not a reflection of their literary worth or technical merit.
28Majel-Susan
>27 Sakerfalcon: Thank you! I'm so glad you enjoyed the group read!
I'm personally rating Out of the Silent Planet 4 stars, Perelandra 3, and That Hideous Strength 4. While I enjoyed reading the books as a series, as Lewis pointed out, I think that each is fairly approachable as its own stand-alone book, since the plot is more episodic than contiguous.
I'm personally rating Out of the Silent Planet 4 stars, Perelandra 3, and That Hideous Strength 4. While I enjoyed reading the books as a series, as Lewis pointed out, I think that each is fairly approachable as its own stand-alone book, since the plot is more episodic than contiguous.
