The Travels of Sir John Mandeville - Foolscap Press

The Travels of Sir John Mandeville Beyond the Holy Land - FOOLSCAP PRESS LIMITED EDITION 2019

A PICTORIAL REVIEW

Limited to 90 copies
Printed letterpress on hand-made paper.
Five double page maps.
Hand coloured illuminations throughout.
Bound in red hand-made paper
Paper title label
Red cloth cover box with paper spine label.
104 pages 12.5x9in. US$1200

















Front endpaper




































Back endpapers


An index of my other illustrated reviews can be seen here.

So beautiful....

Question: Do you know from where those alphabets are reproduced?

To this neophyte's eyes, this is one of the most gorgeous executions in the history of fine and private press. What a treasure!

>3 PatsChoice:

You aren't a neophyte - your assessment is correct.

Thank you, wcarter! These are excellent photographs. I have a copy of this book and agree with the praise that has been given it on this forum. It's a marvelous production.

>5 opto4: Ditto. By far my best purchase of 2019.

I don't have a copy, so have only this post to got by, but it seems to me that the illumination is not up to the quality of the typography. To my eyes, they seem amateurish. And the paper binding leaves me cold. It fails to adequately present the contents. The binding style is fine, I just think that using paper was a mistake. Kudos for the hand-sewn headbands, though.

This is a frustrating book. I want to like it, but I can't. I don't have a copy to go by, so only have the images in this post to respond to.

While the typography is excellent, I find that the illuminations fall short. They are, to my eye, amateurish, and detract from the overall effect. I see what the intent was -- to produce the effect of a medieval manuscript -- but the execution falls short because the illuminations are of poor quality. The binding also fails to present the volume properly. The binding style is fine, and kudos for the hand-sewn headbands, but the decision to use paper, was, I think, a poor one. Less expensive than leather, but inadequate to the task. Limp leather would have been perfect. But paper? No.

>7 Glacierman: Don't have a copy yet, but I'm on the waiting list. I agree to a point. Yes, illustrations are certainly amateurish and would look ridiculous in other settings, but I think they actually mostly work well as medieval illuminations. Context matters. Hand-made, amateurish illustrations don't feel out of place in a medieval manuscript to me, even if they're not done strictly in medieval style. The picture of Mandeville himself riding that monstrous horse on the title page does seriously bug me, though. I'm still getting the book. The paper looks absolutely exquisite, I love the illuminated letters and some of the marginalia, and typography looks very promising.

Don't think I agree on the binding. Sure, something like full vellum would be splendid, but I'm afraid it would increase the price of the book to the point I'd hesitate to purchase it. I'm not repulsed by the paper, and I think they picked a fitting color. Need to hold it in my hands to really form an opinion.

>8 Glacierman:

I mean...many of the illustrations in medieval manuscripts (and early incunabala) are "amateurish" if you ignore the more famous examples. The world map in the Foolscap Mandeville is pretty close to what you get in say....Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah (just to pick an example that's on my shelves).

I'm not a huge fan of the way the paper binding looks, but it does seem pretty strong.

>8 Glacierman: absolutely agree. I actually believe that book would have been much nicer without the illuminations. Just the text and a few more initials and I would totally buy it.

I am actually of the opinion that the artwork is great. This type of naive medieval style rimes very well with the content, which is just that - a naive fantasy tale filled to the brim with dog-headed men, cannibals and other wondrous things. I would absolutely love to own this book, not sure if I can afford it though.

>7 Glacierman:
>8 Glacierman:
>11 SebRinelli:

I think you have missed the mark with respect to the illustrations in the Foolscap Mandeville. Two points:

1. The Foolscap Mandeville is, at heart, a shaggy dog story. Although part of it is rooted in a genuine visit to the Middle East and Holy Land, much of it is fantasy and embellishment. It is a tall tale on the order of John Bunyan, etc. Illustrations that are highly detailed and polished similar to medieval Books of Hours and manuscripts would be wildly inappropriate in this book. The "amateurish" illustrations and illuminations are playful and entirely in keeping with what this book really is.

2. If you look at many of the most famous medieval books illustrated with woodcuts, THEY are "amateurish" as well. I can refer you to a number of such books for you to examine and you will quickly realize that the Foolscap illustrations bear more than a passing resemblance to them. The Officina Bodoni (OB) edition of 'The Holy Gospel' with the 1495 Epistole et Evangelii illustrations by Bartolomeo di Giovanni, the illustrations of Accio Zucco which are hand-coloured in the OB edition of 'The Fables of Aesop' and the Allen Press editions of the Poeticon Astronomicon and Dialogues of Creatures Moralised are excellent examples.

If you simply do not like the illuminations and they are not to your taste, so be it. However, to claim that they "detract from the overall effect" and are "of poor quality" is not an opinion I share.

Finally, regarding the Cavé paper binding.........

Using a full red morocco binding or full limp vallum binding would have made this book prohibitively expensive, bringing it into the $1800 to $2200 range. Working with vellum is costly and quite difficult with only a handful of binders and binderies comfortable using this material. The Cavé paper binding gives this book the feel of a medieval travelogue and it is actually something the Foolscap Press did to excellent effect in an earlier publication, 'Despatches' by Michael Katakis. It can, of course, always be rebound in a full morocco binding but I do not believe it is necessary.

>13 dlphcoracl: Why did you reference me in your rebuttal? I agree with you 100% and absolutely love the book, as my responses indicate.

>14 ultrarightist:

My bad. I referenced the posts incorrectly and I have corrected my error :-( .

>13 dlphcoracl: I think you put it perfectly. This is a superb, once-in-a-decade book. In many ways, I think it transcends personal taste, in the same way that many historic fine press books, from the Gutenberg Bible to the Hogarth Waste Land to the Arion Moby Dick, tend to do.

>13 dlphcoracl: I am fully aware of both numbered points. I have in the past owned an edition of Mandeville printed by the Chiswick Press and illustrated with woodcuts taken from earlier editions. I would not label those wooduts "amateruish" in the least. "Naive," to modern sensibilities, yes, but that is fully in keeping with the Medieval period and they are delightful in that light.

I would, however, expect a modern artist to do a better job of attaining that effect than was done here. So, no. I do NOT like the illustrations at all. We differ in opinion on this, which is fine.

Also, I do realize that full leather or vellum, whether limp or not, greatly increases the cost, and also that the Press is trying to keep the cost reasonable. And yes, vellum is a bugger to work with. The problem for me is that blasted paper. It just doesn't do it for me. IF I were to purchase a copy, I would in time have it rebound to my taste, but could not abide it in its current form. And again, here we disagree. Again, no problem.

We obviously have different tastes! Just like my wife loves raspberry tea and I can't stand it. Again, I say: Vive la différence!

>11 SebRinelli: Precisely. I would keep the vines, etc., just ditch the miniatures. And if that were the case, I could be tempted to buy one despite the paper binding.

>10 MobyRichard: The map in this book is fine. It works wonderfully well.

And with that, I have exhausted my interest in this book.

>1 wcarter: >13 dlphcoracl: I’ve tried to resist this beautiful book for quite some time now... but had to cave in today and placed an order due to FOMO :)

>18 Dr.Fiddy:
Congratulations! You will love it!

>18 Dr.Fiddy: Good move!

>18 Dr.Fiddy:

Best move you will make in your book collecting activities in 2020. Once this book is OOP it will rarely appear in the secondary market and, if it does, it will require a stiff premium to acquire it.

Looks sublime to my eyes. Must be a surreal experience to handle.

Excellent photos Dr. Carter :) maybe a silly question, does it close firmly or do the pages push out like on the 8th image?

>22 bacchus.:
The book closes normally, the pages were fanned for effect in the photo.

I'm very much considering this one. In round numbers, how much would a rebind cost? I'm thinking limp vellum or red morocco, but never had a rebind done before.

>24 Hellbent2:

If you're in the USA, try Starr Bookworks. They are very reasonable. I don't want to quote a price for them as it differs from book to book. Only the binder can tell you how much it will cost. Labor costs being the dominating factor. But they are definitely cheaper than other binders I've used and they do a great job.

If you absolutely need to have the best and are in the UK, there's also Bayntun Riviere. But they are extremely pricey. I recall like 50% pricier than Starr Bookworks on top of the currency conversion fee (I'm in the USA).

>25 MobyRichard:
Thanks! I’m in Switzerland. Everything here is expensive.

>24 Hellbent2:

I have had several rebindings in full morocco (Harmatan or Russell's Oasis) or full calfskin (J. Hewit) done by Sangorski & Sutcliff and Zaehnsdorf, both now part of Shepherds Bookbinders in London, without exaggerated embellishments. It will cost approximately $1100 to $1200. Because vellum is more expensive and considerably more difficult to work with, this will probably be more expensive. If you were to do a rebinding, a red full morocco in a red colour that matches the illuminations inside the book would be quite elegant. Either Russell's #20 or Harmatan Scarlet 20 are an excellent match for what I am thinking about.

If you are in Switzerland it is an easy matter to send the book to a fine bindery in Great Britain. I would recommend Shepherds Bookbinders, Bayntun Riviere or Brockman Bookbinders (James and Stuart Brockman) in Oxford.

Wouldn't a rebind entail sacrificing the endpapers with the various alphabets?

>28 ultrarightist:

The endpapers with alphabets are inseparable from the red Cave paper. The bindery would have to incorporate the red Cave paper covers into and inside the new binding, either as part of the text block or using them as endpapers themselves.

>26 Hellbent2:

There's also this dude in Italy, if you want something a bit more out there...never tried him. I just remember him from this abebooks article:

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/blog/2014/01/24/dario-ustino-venices-master-of-bookbi...

Or this guy who says he hand tools everything:

https://periodfinebindings.typepad.com/

Amazing sample bindings on his site, but talking to him he made it clear that his bindings were well outside my price range.

>30 MobyRichard:

The Dario Ustino bindings are unique but (imho) that is not what you would want for this rebinding. A simple full red morocco with gilt lettering and minimal gilt decorations made of the finest Nigerian goatskin done by a master binder(y) will do the trick and keep the cost within reason.

>24 Hellbent2: Why is it a good idea to rebind this? I'm not claiming that it's not, I'm only curious if there's something explicitly lacking from the original.

>27 dlphcoracl:

I have an early 20th century private press book that I would like to have rebound and have considered Shepherds, but I can't get by the thought of having to ship this book overseas and then having it sent back. I wonder about import duties, etc., particularly since I would want the book insured.

I'm curious if Shepherds is worth it, or if Starr Bookworks or some other binder in the U.S. is a better option.

>33 johnaba:

For a modern Morocco or calfskin binding, without frills, you're not going to notice any difference between Starr Bookworks and Shepherds. You're just going to pay more for the latter. I'd only send it to the big names (Shepherds, Bayntun, Chelsea Bindery) if you need expertise in a particular historical style of binding, need conservation-level work done (paper repairs, facsimile title-pages), or if you want something really fancy (leather onlays, blocked gilt, etc.).

Also the big name binderies can take months to even start on your book. Starr Bookworks usually takes around 6 weeks for me.

>25 MobyRichard:
>27 dlphcoracl:
Thank you for the insightful comments. There is plenty to think about regarding this.

>32 bacchus.:
I'm not entirely sure why. But in general I think a book which is quite "busy" on the inside, with illustrations and ornate/artful type etc., looks and feels better with a heavier/tougher binding. Something to tame all that activity which goes on inside the book.
The opposite can also be true. Take my favourite press, the "Alberto Tallone Editore", they produce books with hardly any illustrations in them. For their books I actually prefer a simpler binding which does not try to overpower the message, which is great typography, page layout and paper.

After procrastinating for a year, I have reserved a copy of this book. I know that if I don’t purchase it now, I will eventually come to regret not having it in my collection. According to an email from the Press, they are estimating that my copy will be ready for shipping in late October or November. Looking forward to seeing it firsthand!

>36 vadim_ca:

Congratulations.

That acquisition alone will define a successful book collecting year, even if you do not purchase another book in 2020.

>36 vadim_ca:
I agree with >37 dlphcoracl: that you are making an acquisition that will be memorable to you in the most positive way. Congratulations!

My copy of Mandeville will be finally shipped tomorrow. Unfortunately, under the current circumstances, it might take several weeks before the book arrives in the Netherlands. My copy of the Thornwillow Frederick Douglass biography has been stuck in a New Jersey USPS distribution center for four weeks now. Larry van Velzer offered to send the book by FedEx, but I’d rather spend the extra money on books and added Phisike Agains Fortune to my order.

>39 Stephan68:
Congratulations on your purchase! You will not regret it. Both books, including "Phisike", are outstanding.

>39 Stephan68:

Be patient with regard to international book shipments. Because there is currently very little air traffic, these books can languish in various U.S. distribution centers, e.g., Newark, Chicago, Los Angeles. etc., for MONTHS before they finally "board a flight". Once the package finally leaves the United States they will arrive in 7-10 days. The silver lining of your book shipment cloud??

All three books are outstanding choices and you will be extremely pleased when they eventually arrive.

P.S. Because of the extreme scarcity and uniqueness of the Foolscap Press edition of 'Mandeville", I strongly recommend paying the extra cost to have this particular book shipped FedEx. Because FedEx has their own fleet of private planes, the book can be accurately tracked and will arrive safely in 7-10 days.

Everybody is suffering with shipping right now. In my tea business, passenger flights to/from China are down 90'ish%, and tea is taking forever to get here and shipping prices are soaring. On the book front, I'm waiting patiently or a book from Fine Press Poetry to arrive from Manchester U.K. Wish I was waiting on Mandeville too... ;)

>40 booksforreading:, >41 dlphcoracl:, >42 jveezer:
Thanks for the encouraging words. I don’t mind to wait a few weeks, as long as the books don’t get damaged during transport.

>39 Stephan68:
I'm shocked that Phisicke Against Fortune is still in print, 27 years after its publication! It's an outstanding production -- albeit not nearly so lavish as Mandeville -- and one of the nicest books in my collection. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

>39 Stephan68:, >44 kermaier:
My copy of Mandeville won't ship until September, but I also had to add Phisicke to my order ;)
Can't wait...

My books arrived today. What magnificent volumes. I got No 141 for Phisicke Against Fortune and No 51 for the Mandeville. Delivery with USPS was much faster than expected, especially since my Thornwillow copy is still stuck in New Jersey. Even the combined tracking of UPSP and Post-NL worked well.

Both books are amazing and to all those who are still expecting their copies of Mandeville, I can only say that its is worth the wait.

My wait of over a year is finally over - got #55 yesterday!
Yes, I'm convinced - the paper binding with visible vellum stitches works just fine. I'm definitely leaving it alone. And while generally I'm not a fan of Solander sarcophagi, this one is a pleasant example. Happy with the whole package.

I noticed Oak Knoll has a copy for sale in their latest newsletter...$1350

>47 elladan0891:

Glad you're happy with it! To me, definitely one of the top 3 fine press books of the past decade, and by far the most obtainable out of those 3 (the other two being the barbarian press Pericles and Arion Leaves of Grass. There was a fourth competitor that I thought had potential but it was wildly out of my price range, the Salvage Press 'A Modest Proposal').

>48 jveezer:

Foolscap is probably still offering subscription discounts so...that price makes even less sense...lol.

>48 jveezer:
>50 MobyRichard:
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't it still available from Foolscap Press for $1,200?

>51 U_238:
You're not missing anything. Oak Knoll has crazy prices.
And it's even less than $1200 if Foolscap is still offering memberships. In practice you agree to buy one book a year in exchange for a hefty discount on their entire catalogue. Looks like it'll be a while before they move onto their next book though since they're still cranking out the Mandevilles.

For what it's worth, Oak Knoll is amenable to bargaining. I called them when I saw they had a fine copy of the LEC Steppenwolf and asked if they would match the price I found elsewhere. Robert, the son of founder Bob Fleck and current Director of Oak Knoll, not only matched the price but took an additional 20% off. They've won a customer for life—I will give them the opportunity to earn my business for future purchases of fine press before looking elsewhere.

After the transaction, Robert and I chatted for close to an hour about the history of fine and private press; he's very knowledgeable and passionate and a gentleman to boot. Apparently he and his father were close friends with one Barry Moser. :-)

I highly advise you guys to give Oak Knoll a direct call for future inquiries on their listings. Of course, I expect something as exclusive and recent as the Foolscap "Mandeville" to be closed to negotiation, but I think you'll find the opposite to be true much more often than not.

I'll try to get Rob to join this community at some point. He had expressed interest in our phone call.

I was reading through my Mandeville the other night and I'm curious. Has everyone who ordered a copy received theirs? My guess is that Foolscap will be working on this well into next year and won't be releasing any new books for a long time to come...

>54 MobyRichard: I received mine a long time ago (2nd batch). We do know their next book: Brief Loves That Live Forever by Andrei Makine and illustrated by Vladimir Zimakov.

>54 MobyRichard: I ordered mine in April with expected shipping in September. That has now changed to end of the year...

Oy. I'll be sorry not to be able to afford the Zimakov book. But maybe that can be my first Foolscap book. One can hope...

>57 jveezer:

I think you'll have time to save up :). I'm betting it won't be released until 2022.

I received a copy that I purchased from Oak Knoll Books during their recent sale today. I have seen many wonderful private press books, but this one left me breathless for a moment! It is absolutely stunning! I believe that there are still a few copies available from Foolscap Press, although you will need to wait for your copy. If you can afford one, I couldn't recommend it more.

I received #63 in the mail today, and just want to quickly echo comments here that the book is truly magnificent. I plan to give it a nice leisurely read on Christmas so only gave it a quick check, but I see myself getting lost in these beautiful pages for many, many hours.

After almost a year, I finally received my books today. I got #72 for the Mandeville and #144 for Phisicke Against Fortune, including a beautiful custom made slipcase. All I can say is: WOW!!! Totally worth the wait :-)

I'm really looking forward to spending time with both of them in the coming days and weeks...

>61 Dr.Fiddy: where did you get the slipcase for the Phisicke?

>62 astropi: Foolscap made it for me.

>61 Dr.Fiddy: Congratulations! Both wonderful editions.
>62 astropi: My copy of Phisicke came with a very nice slipcase.

>63 Dr.Fiddy: thanks.
That book is easily one of the most amazing fine press books I have seen and almost criminally underpriced

>64 kdweber: Thanks :)
>65 astropi: "That book is easily one of the most amazing fine press books I have seen and almost criminally underpriced"
Couldn't agree more.

So I was talking to Lawrence at Foolscap Press (ordering Tower of the Winds) and he mentioned that 'The Travels of John Mandeville' is almost sold out....last chance!

>67 MobyRichard: I hope you've checked out Tower of the Winds in person. It comes in a great case but reading a scroll is much more of a pain than reading a codex.

>68 kdweber:

https://i0.wp.com/gecon.es/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Challenge-Accepted-Meme-3....

>67 MobyRichard: Thanks Moby. Finally made the clicks and bought my copy. Needed the extra motivation.

>67 MobyRichard: thanks for the warning - I would have been quite sad if I waited too much longer and missed out. Ordered my copy today!

>70 Sport1963:
>71 ChampagneSVP:

Nice!

>70 Sport1963: >71 ChampagneSVP: Just in time 😊
It's now out of print...

>73 Dr.Fiddy:
Now it will be interesting to see what happens on the secondary market with this superb book.

I recently bought my copy (#27) from another contributor to this forum. It's an incredible book.

I see that there is still one copy available for about $1500 from Bromer Booksellers in Boston.

>76 booksforreading:

Or, if you want to save some money. Physicke Against Fortune is still available direct from Foolscap. Criminally underpriced.

>77 MobyRichard:
I own Physicke Against Fortune. It is a beautiful edition of an important work!
People used "criminally underpriced" expression a few times here in reference to this book; however, it is still available from the publisher...

>77 MobyRichard: second this. Amazing production. The content might be an acquired taste, but one of my gravitational poles of book collecting is fine editions of Renaissance humanist Italian classics in English translation, so it needed no special leap of faith on my part. That said, it is also surprisingly funny for a dialogue between reason and the various passions!

>68 kdweber:
>69 MobyRichard:

Challenge completed.

Well, I'm a little late to the conversation but thrilled to have found a copy of Mandeville, by some miracle, under original publication price!

The pictures really do not do it justice - everyone talking about rebinding this beautiful book really just needs to hold a copy in their hands to realize how exquite the Cavé paper binding really is - full morroco would feel like a downgrade to me.

While I personally like the title page illustration and think it suits the book, I will say the remaining illuminations (present on every page) or much more subtle and feel much more medieval to me minus a few fanciful anachronisms. It feels very much like a true hand-illuminated manuscript.

I've now set my eyes on Other Worlds (likely not until 2022, though) but am on the fence because I can't imagine it being any more magnificent than the Mandville volume despite it's higher price point.

>81 NathanOv: wow... congrats! How did you find it for under the publication price you lucky Nathan you :)

>82 astropi: It really was luck! I'd proposed $300 off asking as what I meant to just be a starting offer, and the seller immediately agreed. I couldn't be more happy with it though!

>83 NathanOv:

If you liked Mandevile, I would highly recommend Physicke of Fortune or Tower of the Winds. I'd like to get their 'Story of the Fisherman' someday, but the accordion binding makes me nervous. I can't convince myself that it is durable.

>84 MobyRichard: I do have Physicke, and though the content isn't as much my cup of tea as Mandeville or Fisherman, it's a beautiful book!

I'm waiting on Tower of The Winds until I get a chance to read another of Van Velzer's originals (Desert Dreams) and see how I like his work.

While I don't have Fisherman yet, I will say the accordion binding on The Snails, while a slightly different situation, is very sturdy - only needs to be treated as gently as any other fine press book.

>84 MobyRichard: Story of the Fisherman is great! Plus it comes it a neat folding case so there is no rubbing when accessing the book from the case.

Thanks to the Oracle, I was lucky enough to acquire a copy on the secondary market; it arrived today. The Foolscap Press has created a truly marvelous production. Pictures do not do it justice - there is magic in this craft.

>87 PatsChoice:

Trust the dlphcoracl.

Didn't expect to see one for sale in my lifetime.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204326686946

>89 Lukas1990:

This is why I repeatedly encouraged/pleaded with this group of collectors to find a way to purchase this masterwork. At its offering price of $1,200. it was ridiculously underpriced and, as noted by in >16 grifgon: by Griffin (No Reply Press) this is a once-in-a-decade book that "transcends tastes". If you missed this one, well.......... .

>90 dlphcoracl: it was actually Griffin that persuaded me to buy one of the last copies available.

Tower of the Winds still available...an incredible bargain especially at subscriber prices. I'll repeat that it's not hard to read. Only slight annoyance is rolling it back up.

>89 Lukas1990: Slightly better price direct from Carpe Diem website.

https://www.carpediemfinebooks.com/advSearchResults.php?action=search&orderB...

Thanks again to MobyRichard for getting me off the dime to purchase one of the last copies directly from Foolscap in 2021. No regrets!

Happy hunting!

>93 Sport1963: I hate these tricks with pricing...

>94 Lukas1990: They simply added the 15% eBay selling fee to the price - nothing too tricky about that.

You can almost always get a discount searching for the seller's website or email / phone number if it's a bookstore, whether they advertise a lower price for buying directly or not.

>93 Sport1963: Beautiful book, absolutely NOT worth that price in my opinion. One of the things that is not mentioned, and if I recall surprised a few buyers, is that the book is paperback.

>96 astropi: "Paperback" does the book a huge disservice. It is a fine specialty binding, and the handmade Cave Papers are nicer, in my opinion, than most full-leather bindings, while much more suited to the work. It is also very sturdy, and the clip binding eliminates any spine cracking or wear that are usually the downside to paper wraps.

Just considering the materials and labor alone (over a hundred pages of handmade paper and hand illumination), the original price was a steal, and I think the secondary price is much more justified than that of most other OOP fine or small press editions that see 5-10x price increases.

>97 NathanOv: I'm very glad you really like it, myself I was a bit taken aback at the binding. Don't get me wrong, it's not "cheap" or anything like that, but I was nevertheless expecting a hardback. That said, I do disagree with you on Just considering the materials and labor alone, the original price was a steal - $1200 is not a "steal" in my opinion, even for something so ornate, and that is of course the big draw, the ornaments. I personally think the secondary price is way out of line. That said, it's a free market, but if I had $4500 for books this is not how I would spend it :)

>98 astropi: The seller’s price is probably a bit ambitious, but with collectors out there paying this much for “Roman numeral” editions from other publishers, or even rare trade editions, again I think such an increase is much more justified for a book like this.

As for the original cost, it sounds like the book simply wasn’t for you, but the incredible value for the materials and amount of labor is hard to argue with, let alone the craftsmanship and finished product.

It’s in a very different boat than the recent Pegana Press books, for example, where I can sympathize with the press having to price them so high, and personally get more enjoyment out of them than similarly price numbered editions from other presses, but where a lot of what you’re paying is the publisher’s overhead. With Mandeville, I can’t imagine another press being able to offer it at the same price quality level for anywhere near the asking price.

>92 MobyRichard:
I completely support Tower Of Winds recommendation. Fascinating research in a very unique and appropriate presentation, at a very reasonable price.

Totally appreciate the craftsmanship, not my jam. Curious if anyone has a copy of Despatches - the topic/presentation are quite interesting, the materials obviously at a much lower production value than the book in this thread.

5x the original price for a 5 year-old publication from an active press is a bit of a stretch, but I'm sure someone will buy it for something in the neighborhood of 80% of the seller's asking price. The old adage, "go find another one" etc.
I like a lot of Foolscap books, but not quite enough to pay up for the 4-figure ones. They're an interesting press, with some of their books firmly in the artist's book camp (Tower of the Winds, Despatches, Saint John's Fragment) and others more of the traditional fine press livre d'artiste (Mandeville, Cervantes). Both these approaches bespeak van Velzer's Arion Press work, which often skirts these same lines.

>99 NathanOv: >102 DenimDan: Of course everything I said is just my opinion :)
I absolutely think it's a beautiful publication, just not worth $4500 -- but of course, as you noted, if someone really wants the book and there is only one for sale, there are not many options.

By the way, I reached out to Pegana, and they said "our price point is now where it should be for hand-set type" so I'm assuming at this point that $700+ is the norm now for their books, which in the past were around $300. I absolutely do wish them the best, they really are a unique publisher, sadly I'm pretty much priced-out at this point.

>101 LBShoreBook: I really enjoyed reading Despatches, and love the concept and execution of the set as a rustic set of handmade journals that still of course use fine press materials and printing.

>103 astropi:. I have a hard time understanding how Foolscap could have sold their Mandeville for only $1200 list (I’m guessing many copies actually sold at $1000). That’s a gross of ~$110,000 for three years of enormous work. It makes no economic sense particularly for anyone located in the San Francisco Bay Area (Santa Cruz). Yet, with only 100 copies, it took an amazingly long time to sell out (still more successful than Arion).

I felt Pegana’s prices were on the high side at $300 for a Lost Tales book and $350 for Dark Dreamlands but still fail to see how one could make a living at selling only 80 - 100 copies at those prices. $700 seems like a more reasonable cost with regards to running a profitable press but also seems enormously pricey for a chapbook. We’ll see if the market buys it. I don’t believe $700 is the price for a handset chapbook. Sudden Immobility from the Barbarian Press was $700 but it is 296 pages long and illustrated by Andy English. It’s hard to swallow that Annals of the Jinns and Sudden Immobility are both worth $700 because they are both hand set.

>105 kdweber: Agreed. I also wish them well, but for Pegana to claim that their chapbooks are priced where a handset book should be and leaving it at that is to ignore the rest of the market, and to not give the buyer enough credit as a discerning customer with experience buying from other presses. In other words it is a bit naive.

As you said, one only needs to look to Barbarian Press to find far better value for handset publications. And take a look at Petrarch Press’s latest work - at $450 The Rubaiyat is not only handset, but hand printed, page-by-page, on an Albion, uses handmade paper, and has what appears to be a more premium binding. It also includes a slipcase, another thing that Pegana’s chapbooks lack - and c’mon, for $600+ a slipcase should be a given.

I get it, it’s an expensive undertaking and profit margins are small. Sometimes you have to price higher than you’d like to keep the business running. But idk, doesn’t seem like they are selling much at the prices they are charging. At least on this forum there appears to be a general consensus that Pegana represents poor value.

They might be wise to reassess their prices, and maybe find a happy medium rather than stick to their narrative that their prices are where they should be despite the fact that virtually no one is willing to pay that much.

>105 kdweber: Sudden Immobility does seem like the steal of the century in comparison, doesn't it? Extraordinary content and execution.

>103 astropi: "our price point is now where it should be for hand-set type"

Has anyone told Thornwillow yet?

>108 Shadekeep: Thornwillow has not used hand-set type in over a decade.

>107 SDB2012: Agreed. One of the best deals in a long time.

>105 kdweber: >106 Nightcrawl: Great points. If that price point is truly what they need to charge to make it a viable business, I wish them well, but don’t see how it can be such.

>105 kdweber: seems possible to me that it wasn't profitable. But maybe that's not the goal. Private presses have a long history of self funding and artistic projects unconnected to economic fundamentals, though this also requires either patronage or independent funds.

Just to add another data point, I know Veatches offered a copy in 2020 at $1350 USD. Not sure when the book sold out from the press, but I think it had by that point.

In my opinion, a $4-5k price point for this book is insane, and I say that as someone who likes it. But price is always and everywhere a function of supply and demand where free exchange is permitted, not quality or any inherent properties.

>109 edkennedy: I jokingly pulled Thornwillow out of the air at random, since they make ridiculously affordable letterpress works. I'm sure there are studios doing actual hand-set type which aren't as overpriced (to me) as Pegana. I was merely trying to point out that using that alone as the justification seems somewhat specious. If that's how much it costs them to set type by hand, so be it. But if hand-set type is supposed to be that expensive, there are other studios that really need to bump up their prices as well. Or share the secrets of their more affordable approaches.

>105 kdweber:

Your comments (as always) are on the mark.

When the Foolscap Press first announced Mandeville and priced it at $1,200. I thought it was criminally underpriced and felt badly because Peggy Gotthold and Larry van Velzer were leaving money on the table (so I thought). IMO, the book should have been priced similar to the Mad Parrot edition of TWITW in the $2,000 - $2,200. range. I was shocked that it took over one year for this to go OOP and still do not understand why so many knowledgeable collectors were "slow to the draw" on this unique, labor-intensive book. The Barbarian Press 'Poems. Molly Holden' was a similar bargain and, once again, many knowledgeable collectors were luke-warm on this edition because they were unfamiliar with Molly Holden's poetry, neglecting that this was going to be a major Barbarian Press edition with a suite of wood engravings by Andy English.

The new Pegana Press edition of 'Annals of the Jinns' by R.H. Barlow, although beautifully designed and printed, is overpriced. The Numbered Edition with Asahi Japanese silk cloth binding is actually priced at $895 (yikes!), not $700. for a small, slim volume. As evidenced by the comments on this board, there is little appetite or market for Pegana Press books at current prices. It will be interesting to see how it sells over the course of the year.

In the meantime, I strongly urge LT FPF collectors to reserve a copy of the forthcoming Barbarian Press edition 'A Marriage of True Minds'. This will also be a major Barbarian Press edition with a collection of fifty love poems selected by the Elsteds (Note: Crispin Elsted is also a poet) with a unique set of wood engravings from seven wood engravers that form a Who's Who of current wood engravers, all of whom have illustrated prior Barbarian Press editions. Priced at C$1200. = $885. USD. This is being issued in an edition of 105 copies for sale (total edition of 125) and all copies are deluxe edition. Many copies have already been reserved. As with most Barbarian Press editions, it will be near impossible to find on the secondary market once it goes OOP and, similar to the Foolscap Press 'Mandeville" it will command a stiff premium.

Couldn't agree more. I was guided and/or persuaded by yourself and specifically another user on here regarding both Foolscap and Barbarian and I couldn't be happier and more thankful for the advice. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as the vast majority on here but I have been collecting for 5-10 years and have yet to come across two publishers who produce finer works at such a fair price point. Every time I open a package from them I am always taken aback on such beauty and craftsmanship. Not to mention how genuinely kind and goodhearted they both are!

I'm currently wavering on my Arion subscription solely on how expensive the books are, and in my opinion not nearly as nice, compared with Foolscap and Barbarian - although I know that's not fair.

>114 Joshbooks1:

"......although I know that's not fair."

Au contraire. It is VERY fair. Look at what $800 - $1200 can purchase at each private press (Arion Press, Barbarian Press and Foolscap Press) and you will quickly realize where your money is treated best with regard to your private press book collection.

>114 Joshbooks1: Piling on to what the Oracle said. I dropped my Arion subscription 2 years ago, and have since redirected those funds to very satisfying acquisitions. One of the best book collecting decisions I made. Better to be happy when opening that box than unhappy. Life is too short. Do it and don't look back.