August 2019: Philosophy & Religion

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August 2019: Philosophy & Religion

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1CurrerBell
Modifié : Juin 30, 2019, 1:14 am

Lots of possibilities here. There's Immanuel Kant, of course, and when you're done the Critique of Pure Reason you can move on to the Critique of Practical Reason and then the Critique of Judgment. It's generally recommended, I think, that you read them in that order, just like it's a good idea to read The Hunger Games before you read Catching Fire and to read Catching Fire before you read Mockingjay ... or to read Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy before The Honorable Schoolboy and that before Smiley's People. Not that I would know, since I've never tried. (I mean, never tried reading all three of Kant's Critiques, but I have read Suzanne Collins and John le Carre — except neither of them count since they didn't write about philosophy or religion.)

Or you could read Plato: Complete Works, which at 1808pp will also qualify for the 2019 Big Fat Books Challenge (unless you can't finish it by New Year's Eve, but then you can carry it over to the 2020 Big Fat Books Challenge, and there probably will be one for us obsessive compulsives and insomniacs).

If, however, you fear (like James Joyce's Stephen Daedalus) that Plato would find your poetic spirit ground to exile you from his Republic, then you can always turn to Plato's student Aristotle, whose complete works are available in an edition overseen by Jonathan Barnes — which the Princeton University Press has very kindly published in two volumes, making it easier on your Platonic wrists to read Volume One's 1256pp separately from Volume Two's 1256pp, and with two volumes you'll get a double whammy for the 2022 Big Fat Books Challenge. (That's assuming you can get even one of them finished by three New Year's Eves from now.)

{Note to the RTT Group. I think you can read those two Aristotle volumes in either order but I'm not sure. Do you think I'd be crazy enough ever to have tried?}

{Note to Amy Klobuchar: Any of those three Plato or Aristotle volumes can be far more lethal than a mere flying binder, though Atlas Shrugged should out-lethal anything.}

If you prefer a complete compendium of classical philosophy, though, you can turn to Lives of the Eminent Philosophers by Diogenes Laertius. And if you'd like to take a stab at it in the original, you can get it in Greek with English translation either in the Loeb Classical Library or in the Delphi Ancient Classics e-book version.

{Further note to Senator Klobuchar: Although the Loeb Classics are fairly compact and will do less damage than any of the above referenced Plato or Aristotle volumes, beware of throwing a Kindle or Nook at a staff member since e-readers can shatter on impact.}

Finally, if you want to take an easier route, remember that semiotician-turned-novelist Umberto Eco. Along with The Name of the Rose (of course), Foucault's Pendulum and Baudolino should also both qualify. Or take a stab at some of the literary works of Jean-Paul Sartre or Albert Camus. And in the area of science fiction, there's quite a bit to be had — like the Space Trilogy (C.S. Lewis), or The Sparrow and Children of God (Mary Doria Russell), or the little-known but intriguing (if you can find it) Daughter of Is (Michael Davis) which was strongly influence by Lewis's Space Trilogy. There's also one of my favorite sci-fi novels, A Canticle for Leibowitz (Walter M Miller Jr).

As for myself, I've just finished the Bhagavad Gita and I'm planning to read the Norton Critical's supplementary materials. I'm currently reading a (not very good) translated abridgement of the Rig Veda done by Wendy Doniger. (Doniger's a rather controversial Sanskritist among both Indian and American Hindus. I have a sense that she may be a good example of those whom Edward Said criticized in Orientalism, but I haven't read anything by her yet that would qualify me to judge.)

Post your own plans and let's see where everyone's going!

2DeltaQueen50
Juin 30, 2019, 2:53 am

Thanks for getting the thread up, Mike. I don't think I am quite ready to read Plato or Aristotle yet so I did a tagmash of Religion and Historical Fiction and came up with quite a long list of options, then I did a tagmash of Historical Fiction and philosophy and got another long list. There were some books that showed up on both lists and I think I am going to be reading Confessions of a Pagan Nun by Kate Horsley and The Violent Bear It Away by Flannery O'Connor.

3Tess_W
Modifié : Juil 4, 2019, 12:56 pm

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4Tess_W
Modifié : Juil 1, 2019, 1:42 pm

Oh my, Mike! You are in to some heavy reading---me not so much! That being said, I have read Ecco and enjoyed him. I have read Plato's Republic and also Machiavelli's The Prince which is his philosophy on how rulers ought to behave. I have read plenty on Socrates (but of course, not written by himself). That is about as far as I wish to delve into philosophy! I think I will take the religion non-fiction track and read Economic Parables: The Monetary Teachings of Jesus Christ by David Cowan which has been on my shelf since 2012! Glad to see you here!

5cfk
Juil 2, 2019, 11:04 am

I would recommend "The Seven Story Mountain" and any others by Thomas Merton. Also, "The Compassionate Universe" by Eknath Easwaran and "A Religion of One's Own" by Thomas Moore. These are all very readable.

6Tess_W
Modifié : Juil 7, 2019, 10:41 am

Can't find the book I originally wanted, so am going with Telling the Truth: The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale . I'm trying not to buy any books this year, so dig desperately on my shelves for something that's "close!"

7Tess_W
Juil 16, 2019, 9:51 am

Since the book was short (98 pages) and I found it (!) I just sat down and read it during the course of a day, and to be honest, that is more than the time I would spend on this book. Telling the Truth: The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale by Fredrick Buechner is a small book with a small story. The author tries to bring the Gospels into everyday reality: human nature is flawed (tragedy), God's overwhelming love (comedy), and transformation through God's love (fairy tale). I didn't buy this book, don't know how I got it, but I've read it and it's on it's way to the Friends of the Library!

8LibraryCin
Juil 21, 2019, 2:16 pm

This is a tough one for me. Not a fan of philosophy. I also try to read off my tbr. For this group, most of the time, I try for nonfiction, but sometimes I'll go for historical fiction.

For this, most of the "religion" ones (based on tags) I could find on my tbr were about the witches in Salem. But, I don't feel like that really fits. That wasn't Wicca, that was little girls pointing fingers.

It's not on my tbr, but I decided on a historical fiction book, based on the Bible. I've read two others by the same author, so decided I'd read her other fictional book, based on a woman in the Bible, so I'll be reading (jeez, I hope my library has it!!!):

The Garden of Ruth / Eva Etzioni-Halevy

9LibraryCin
Juil 21, 2019, 2:17 pm

I'd like to recommend one. It's humour, but I thought it was very very good historical fiction, as well.

Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal / Christopher Moore

10LibraryCin
Juil 21, 2019, 2:29 pm

Sigh. Well, my library doesn't have it, so I've requested it via ILL. That can sometimes take a couple of months to come, though, so I will get to it, just likely not in August.

12cfk
Juil 23, 2019, 12:53 pm

"The Islamic Jesus: How the King of the Jews Became a Prophet of the Muslims" is a complex book, filled with footnotes and a well reasoned approach to a deeply divisive subject. I suspect that Akyol will be challenged and condemned by both Christians and Muslims alike. Akyol is crystal clear on where Islam differs* with Christian theology and where it demonstrates common ground**. He quotes Christian sources including the Apocrypha, the Qur'an and the hadiths (sayings of Muhammad) throughout.

1)* Muslims, Jews and Christians all proclaim the one God by different names, but only Christians put forth the concept of the Trinity which is not Biblical and was introduced in the Third Century. Neither the Jews, the Jewish Christians, nor the Muslims believe in the Trinity.

2)* Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth and revere Jesus as first among the Prophets of Judaism and Islam, but do not accept the Christian concept of His Divinity, or God made manifest. Consequently, while Jesus is held in very high esteem as "the Word of God" among Muslims, they do not worship him as the Son of God. Mary, too, is treasured among the Muslims as the Mother of Jesus.

1)**The Qur'an is the true Word of God for Muslims, given directly to Muhammad. "Who is the one true God? The Qur'an's answer: The God of Abraham, Ismael, Isaac, and ....Elijah, David and Soloman."

2)** Teachings of the Qur'an: "God is strictly 'one' ; Jesus is the promised Messiah of the Jews, but not divine; Men can be saved only by two things--faith in God and good deeds."

Akyol makes a strong argument for another parallel between the story of Jesus and modern Islam, one which I had not noticed. Jesus came, not to create a new religion, but to reform Judaism by returning it to hits roots, the spirit of the law and to the realization of the Kingdom of God. The author believes that Islam is past due for its own reformer, like the Jews of Jesus' time. Muslims have politicized Muhammad's message about the Kingdom of God, known as the caliphate. Again like the Jews in their longing for a warrior king, modern Muslims have turned their attention outward in their search for the Kingdom of God and seek a powerful new leader, ie, a 'Mahdi' to defeat Islam's oppressors.

There is so much more to this book than I have attempted to report. For those with an interest in this subject, Akyol's book is well worth the time.

13Familyhistorian
Juil 27, 2019, 1:29 am

I turned to my shelves to see what I have for dealing with philosophy or religion that wasn't a tome that would take more than a month to read. So it is a toss up between The Te of Piglet or The Cartoon Introduction to Philosophy.

14This-n-That
Modifié : Juil 27, 2019, 10:55 am

>13 Familyhistorian: I had the same type of thought as I'm not in the mood for a long book about religion, since I read one a few months ago. I came across Zen Puppies which is a book of verses from The Dhammapada, accompanied by cute pictures of puppies.

15Familyhistorian
Juil 29, 2019, 6:52 pm

>14 This-n-That: That sounds like a good summer read about religion!

16marell
Juil 30, 2019, 10:51 am

I’m still traveling along with Lewis and Clark and won’t finish it in July. Because the text is a bit dense and the spelling and punctuation are as originally written (inconsistent and sometimes non-existent) the reading is sometimes slow. I’m enjoying it — and learning a lot — so I will continue reading it in August.

I have been using an online tool this year listening to and reading the Bible so I will continue that in August for this month’s theme. The books for August that I will be listening to while reading along are 1st and 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, 1st Thessalonians, with portions of the Psalms scattered throughout.

17cindydavid4
Modifié : Juil 31, 2019, 12:52 am

>9 LibraryCin: thats so funny, I was just about to add that! Loved it! Reread it recently and its just as funny, moving and thought provoking as it was when it came out,.

Similar books on religion and philosophy, takes on the story of Jesus Quarrantine, Only Begotten Daughter Testament of Mary oh and several others that I cant seem to recall, but will have to check my shelves tomorrow

Non fiction The Zealot Had some quibbles with its history but has some interesting theories of early christianity.

18wosewoman
Juil 31, 2019, 11:33 am

Hi, I’ve just joined this group. I see that one of the books mentioned above is The Name of the Rose and since I just got it out of the library, it seems like a good choice to me. But I’m just finishing a long time, and have about three other books ready to go, so I will see how it goes.

19Tess_W
Juil 31, 2019, 7:33 pm

20LibraryCin
Juil 31, 2019, 9:15 pm

>17 cindydavid4: Glad you enjoyed it, as well! It would be great if someone gave it a try this month, too! :-)

21cindydavid4
Juil 31, 2019, 9:36 pm

>18 wosewoman: Welcome! Oh I read that ages ago, and suspect much of it went over my head. Might need to reread it!

22This-n-That
Modifié : Août 1, 2019, 12:58 pm

>18 wosewoman: Welcome! This is a fun and easygoing type of group. I still haven't read The Name of the Rose as it somehow seems daunting but I'll look forward to your thoughts about it.

23DeltaQueen50
Août 3, 2019, 12:05 pm

>18 wosewoman: Welcome to the group. I have The Name of the Rose on my shelves as well, but doubt if I would be able to fit it in this month as, per usual, I have "over-booked" myself.

24DeltaQueen50
Août 6, 2019, 4:22 pm

I have completed my read of The Violent Bear It Away by Flannery O'Connor and I really disliked it. Here is what I wrote about the book:

The Violent Bear It Away by Flannery O’Connor was originally published in 1960 and tells the story of Francis Marion Tarwater, a fourteen year old boy who is trying to escape the destiny his fanatically evangelist uncle has declared for him – the life of a prophet. I found this to be a very dark Southern Gothic story, with unlikable characters and strong religious themes.

I am puzzled by exactly what the author was trying to impart with this book. At first I thought this was a satire on religion, in particular the fundamentalists who live by a strict biblical code, but her view is so dark and brutal that I am not sure exactly what she was trying to say. Religious fanaticism makes me very uncomfortable, and this novel pushes the envelope beyond what I find acceptable. It is packed with symbolism and religious imagery and eventually verges into becoming a horror story with distorted characters and evil acts.

I did not understand this book or what it’s message is. I disliked the story and have decided to give up on trying to interpret it. Luckily it was a very short book so I was able to finish it but The Violent Bear It Away definitely wasn’t a book for me.

25cfk
Août 7, 2019, 4:03 pm

Your description of her book and your feelings about it fit mine to a "T." I haven't read this one, but after reading one of hers years ago, I swore off any further books by her. There are far too many good books out there for me to spend time wading through one of hers even though she's a "very important writer." Not for me!

26CurrerBell
Août 7, 2019, 11:00 pm

Just finished a couple I've been reading simultaneously, The Rig Veda (Penguin Classics) (abridgement translated and annotated by Wendy Doniger) and John Keay's India: A History. Revised and Updated. The latter isn't precisely "religion" (it's a comprehensive history from prehistoric times to the 21st century); but with the south Asian subcontinent, just about any history will contain enormous religious reference.

27DeltaQueen50
Août 9, 2019, 12:17 pm

>25 cfk: I'm glad that I am not the only one who just doesn't get this much praised author!

28DeltaQueen50
Août 18, 2019, 1:19 pm

I have completed Confessions of a Pagan Nun by Kate Horsley and thought this was a very well done piece of historical fiction. My review:

Confessions of a Pagan Nun by Kate Horsley is a rather grim story set in the 6th century Ireland as Christianity is slowly overtaking the pagan religion. Gwynneve is serving as a nun and is cloistered in a stone cell at St. Bridgit’s convent. She should be transcribing sacred texts but instead she is secretly recording her life story of how she was raised as a pagan, trained as a druid and eventually “converted” to Christianity. This is a story of a hard life with constant struggles against the injustices of the time.

Well crafted and researched, the author writes about this time period with authority, yet she manages to infuse her words with a poetic feeling. While this is a grim story about a woman struggling in a difficult time, it is interesting and gives the reader a strong picture of the Celtic culture being overtaken and changed by Christianity. Not a long novel, but one that explores both the spirituality and philosophy of a country that is being changed by a new religion.

29marell
Modifié : Août 19, 2019, 10:18 pm

I bought this little hardcover book, The Good Shepherd Translated by Kenneth C. Kaufman by Gunnar Gunnersson for 50 cents at my library’s bookstore. I didn’t know what it was about but when I started reading I realized it fit this month’s theme beautifully.

Librarything contains a review of this book which does a better job of describing the story than I ever could.

I will never forget Benedikt, Benedikt’s dog, Leo (“he earned his name, for truly he was a Pope among dogs”), and the bell-wether Gnarly, named that because he was so tough. The journey of this “trinity” begins on Advent and ends on the evening of Christmas Day. I thoroughly enjoyed this charming novella. The illustrations and thick, textured paper only enhanced the charm of this wonderful story.

30CurrerBell
Août 19, 2019, 12:07 pm

>29 marell: The Good Shepherd (Your touchstone links to a DeNiro movie.)

31marell
Août 19, 2019, 10:05 pm

Hmm. I do see on Touchstones under the DeNiro reference the correct reference.

32marell
Août 19, 2019, 10:17 pm

Thank you. I think I fixed it.

33countrylife
Août 23, 2019, 7:24 pm

>24 DeltaQueen50: - Judy - I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had issues with The Violent Bear It Away. I read it four years ago, had exactly your thoughts about it, and then wondered if I just didn't get it. Because of not getting it, I gave it 3 stars at the time, thinking it was just me. I think that was too generous.

34countrylife
Août 23, 2019, 7:28 pm

For this challenge, I read The Kommandant's Girl about a Jewish girl working for a Nazi while undercover as a gentile staying with a Catholic relative and helping the resistance in Poland.

35DeltaQueen50
Août 23, 2019, 11:19 pm

>33 countrylife: I have promised myself that I will give Flannery O'Connor another try at some point so will mostly likely read one of her volumes of short stories which people seem to like better than her novel.

36Familyhistorian
Août 31, 2019, 6:00 pm

I couldn’t find the Te of Piglet which tells me that I really should have a good look through my shelves – all of them! So, I read The Cartoon Introduction to Philosophy. It was a good introduction to the subject of philosophy and went over some of the basic concepts. The cartoon images of the philosophers were a good way of remembering them as well. The book will go back on the shelves for when I need to refer to it again.

37cindydavid4
Sep 1, 2019, 12:36 pm

Think I should reread Sophie's World, read it ages ago and loved it, but a lot went passed me. Might be time to revisit it.

38MissWatson
Sep 1, 2019, 6:20 pm

I simply didn't get around to reading a book for this, but I am currently reading Tom Jones and I am surprised to find the conversations so full of philosophy, so I think I'll add it here as soon as I have finished it.

39LibraryCin
Sep 2, 2019, 12:33 am

I am still waiting on my book to arrive via ILL. I do plan to come back and post my review once I've gotten my hands on it and read it!

40clue
Modifié : Sep 3, 2019, 10:30 am

I've decided to use Ordinary Grace, a novel by William Kent Krueger, for this challenge. I had intended to read something else but I've been distracted the last couple of weeks and wasn't able to get to it. This is a fine novel and one that I know I will reread in the future. The narrator is 13 and living in a small quiet town in Minnesota in 1961. Citizens are shaken when three unnatural deaths take place during the summer. One is determined an accident, one a suicide and the third a murder. Frank's father is a Methodist minister and one of the deaths is his daughter's. As one of the blurbs I read about the book said, "It is an unforgettable novel about discovering the terrible price of wisdom and the enduring grace of God."

41Tess_W
Sep 3, 2019, 10:29 am

>40 clue: I also liked that book

42CurrerBell
Sep 3, 2019, 7:16 pm

And I did finish the supplementary materials in the Bhagavad Gita (Norton Critical Editions) a couple weeks ago so I ought to include that edition.

43beebeereads
Sep 4, 2019, 5:20 pm

I had several books I had hoped to reach for this topic. I did not...BUT I did read The Little Prince for another challenge and in some quarters that would qualify for "philosophical". I'll count it and hope to return to my other titles later in the year-- The Philosophy Gym and Life of the Beloved. Neither is high-brow, but worth the read or re-read.

44LibraryCin
Sep 29, 2019, 11:50 pm

My ILL for this one finally came in!

The Garden of Ruth / Eva Etzioni-Halevy
3.5 stars

Osnath has come to Bethlehem at 15-years old and falls for two brothers, Eliab and David. While there, she is intrigued by the mystery surrounding Eliab and David’s ancestor (and I think, also in some way, her own ancestor), Ruth. It takes her a while to uncover Ruth’s story, while she is torn between the two men.

So, this is about the Biblical Ruth, and how her story may have come to be written. Actually, the first half of the book mostly focuses on Osnath, and the second half on Ruth. I don’t know the Bible – even less the Old Testament – but I did recognize a few names: Ruth; Samuel, a prophet; David (though I didn’t recognize him until Goliath was mentioned!). There were probably a few others. I didn’t remember it, but Osnath’s grandmother, Pninah, is one of the main characters in The Song of Hannah, also written by Etzioni-Halevy.

Anyway, I thought this was good, both women’s stories. A lot of jumping in between men’s beds (for both Osnath and Ruth!), though not in detail, but the story was still interesting. As always, I appreciate the historical note that was added in at the end.

45CurrerBell
Oct 1, 2019, 10:19 pm

>44 LibraryCin: Incidentally, Ruth is one of the favorite Biblical books for lesbians, who often find the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, though not expressly sexual, to be very empowering.

46kac522
Modifié : Oct 2, 2019, 12:21 am

A little late, but I finished two books that sort of fit:

The Best American Spiritual Writing 2008, Philip Zaleski. These are periodical pieces from 2007, from a diverse group of publications and points of view. Contributors include Wendell Berry, Walter Isaacson, Ursula K. LeGuin, and Richard Rodriguez, and many more. A number of the essays were directly or indirectly reflecting on the world post 9/11.

Augustine: A Very Short Introduction, by Henry Chadwick. A lot went over my head, but I did get some concepts out of it.

I was grateful for the incentive to pick up these books from my shelf.

47LibraryCin
Oct 2, 2019, 9:18 pm

>45 CurrerBell: Oh, interesting. I wouldn't have thought that!