Tigana Part Three Discussion: EMBER TO EMBER

I'm in a big rush, but I really enjoyed the Ember Nights part of this book. That whole annual dream-time struggle intrigued me.

Go at it people! I'll be back again later.

Although I thought Baerd's fight beneath a green moon stuck out a bit, in terms of the story, I think it's a beautiful scene... very vivid - and it's one of the parts I remember best from my first reading of Tigana all those years ago. It's such

I also liked the Lady of Castle Borso, heh! Marius of Quileia was another interesting cameo here... we'd heard about his feats earlier on, and now we meet him, and he doesn't disappoint... the plot is starting to tying up some more, with Alessan's plan really kicking off by the end of part three.

The plot screw is turned ever tighter, leading us nicely into part four... but I'll save that for next week :-)

One scene I loved from part 3 (I think? I don't have my copy with me at the moment) was after Alessan's bound the wizard, and we find him the next morning, tied by himself to a tree yet frantically trying to get free.

This was such a powerful image, and so evocatively described, it made my heart break a little. Just the idea of fighting so hard against your own will and the will of someone else imposed on you, body and mind in conflict that leaves such violent physical traces... I was blown away. That scene, maybe more than any other in the book, refuses to leave my mind.

I liked the dream struggle as well, but I felt it belonged to another book. And yes, I remember how they were used later.. I have a feeling Kay took an idea for a story and threw it in here. But I will say, the Dream Warriors (or whatever they are called) - are the one thing in the Tigana universe that I think would hold up in a followon book.

The Lady of Castle Castle Borso.. hmm... well, living in the Bay Area of California means I think I've seen the type around. ;)

I had another sentence here, but I have wisely removed it. ;)

The binding of the wizard was one of the my favorite parts of the book. I think it is where GGK really separates himslef from the crowd of fantasy writers. I understood the need and desire of Alessan to bind the wizard, but GGK really made me feel the horror of being held against your will. I felt horrible for the wizard, Erlein. I felt rage against Alessan. I wondered how could justify depriving this wizard of his freedom in order to have a change at Tigana's. Isn't he doing the same thing that Brandin did? GGK did a good job of showing the anguish it caused Alessan and the others.

On a larger scale, it made me think about terrorism, and whether the term is "freedom fighter" if they are on your side, and "terrorist" if they are on the other side. The Tiganans are basically terrorists. They are horribly outnumbered and cannot make a direct attack against the enemy. They must fight with psychological warfare, manipulating public opinion, and well placed diversionary attacks. Maybe I am thinking too much about this, but I think a sign of a good book is to at least stimulate the discussion/thought on deeper issues.

Very well said, limerts. I've been thinking a lot about terrorists myself, since I'm reading a book about Israel right now. For example, I was wondering why the Palestinian terrorists, or any of the others for that matter, have not tried Gandhi's methods or Martin Luther King's methods of peaceful demonstrations. Why must there always be the killing of normal citizens involved?

Yes, the Tiganis (?) were terrorists of a sort. They set their two greatest enemies at each other's throats. But those leaders were only too willing to comply, weren't they...

Alienor of Castle Borso: Maybe I'm being a prig, but I was hoping that Devin would resist her. She was so wild and unknown and different from him that I was disappointed that she could seduce him so easily. But her character was also a good one, showing what people in desperate times will do (just like Dianora and Baird) for the comfort and closeness of another person, no matter for how short a time or temporary or forbidden.

The binding of the wizard: I'm with limerts here. GGK wrote this very well and made me feel pity for the wizard and Alessan. Also made me think of high school english when we read MacBeth and discussed 'Does the ends justify the means?' And should a few have to suffer for the good of many? I still can't come up with an answer for those questions. Certainly not black and white ones anyways.

Alessan's binding of the wizard was such a grey moment, I think that's one of Kay's strengths, where actions have consequences, and nothing is always black and white.

The Tiganans were also in a quandry. Both Sorcerers were strong leaders, there wasn't always a reason to fight against them (yes killing opposition was a bit severe but nothing that didn't have historical precedence) there didn't seem to be that much opposition to the regimes. It's difficult to know if the regimes that would replace them would be any better.

One person's terrorist is another persons patriot!