***Questions for the Avid Reader

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***Questions for the Avid Reader

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1.Monkey.
Déc 13, 2016, 4:15 am

Q1
The new group is here, 2017 is fast approaching, so it's time for the traditional first question! What are your reading plans (or anti-plans) for the year ahead? Will you plot out your reading ahead of time, are you doing lots of challenges, do you do all your reading with spur of the moment decisions? How do you envision your 2017 reading to go?

2This-n-That
Modifié : Déc 13, 2016, 8:56 pm

Well, I'll start. Although I do have a few challenges in my reading future, including tackling more books I own, otherwise I am more leaning towards an unplan. I like to be able to read somthing on a whim or be able to fit in a library book, which doesn't happen as often when I overly commit to challenges. Don't get me wrong, book planning and challenges are fun. My reading overall theme for 2017 is to simplify and embrace more reading spontaneity.

3jjmcgaffey
Déc 14, 2016, 1:47 am

I can't do challenges/plans. I've tried, over and over in the last few years, as an interesting challenge or group read came up - and something in me rebels every time. If I have a book planned for "next", I will either stop reading entirely for a while, or will go off and read something entirely different. Or both. (Though I can read a series - I just have to remember to review immediately, before beginning the next book, so I remember which parts of the story were in which book!)

So all my challenges are numbers - read this many books (150, usually, in a year), read this many of a kind of book (and by subject doesn't work here). My challenges next year will be the same as this - 150 books, more new-to-me than rereads, and 50 Books Off My Bookshelf. And at least 25 books out of the house. I've managed all of those except the BOMBs this year, and I'm not doing terribly on them - 28 so far, I may pack in a couple more before the end of the year. Last year I only managed 15, I think. So progress.

4The_Hibernator
Déc 14, 2016, 9:37 am

I tend to over-book myself with plans and then they tend to go a bit awry during the year. However, I'm going to try hard to keep my plans this year, because I'll be held accountable for them by other readers here and in the blogosphere.

Project 1: Group read of the Bible. Over in the 75ers I will be hosting a literary group read of the Bible (anyone can join). I also plan on reading some supplementary nonfiction to help me approach the bible from a literary standpoint.

Project 2: Group read of the New York Times 6 books to help understand Trump's win. (They're really a group of books to help understand the populist movement behind Trump's win, rather than about Trump himself.) Those books include The Unwinding (January -February), Strangers in Their Own Land (March - April), Hillbilly Elegy (May - June), Listen, Liberal (July - August), The Populist Explosion (September - October), and White Trash (November and December). (Again, anyone can join for any of these.)

In addition, I plan on getting to: We Need to Talk about Kevin, by Lionel Shriver; Underground Railroad, by Colson Whitehead; Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood; Dog Whistle Politics, by Ian Haney Lopez; New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexander (Group Read in July); and Evicted, by Matthew Desmond (Group read in January)

I'll pack that in with audiobooks of choice and fluff.

5ursula
Déc 14, 2016, 10:33 am

For 2017, I decided to do an alphabetic challenge prompted by the folks on Litsy. Either a title or an author's last name starting with every letter of the alphabet. I was pretty much able to use the letters for things I have the intention to read in the upcoming year anyway. I need to read through the books I currently have on the shelf, and then there is the 1001 books list, and then there are other things I'm intending to read - the next Patrick O'Brian, the next Knausgaard, a Dickens, the non-fiction books that are mentioned in >4 The_Hibernator: ... It worked for me because I don't feel like I'm reading a bunch of extraneous stuff just to check off a list.

In addition to that, I have my continuing ambition to get through the 1001 Books list - I think it's currently supposed to take me about 20 more years.

And I think that's it for real plans, although I will continue to try to improve the ratio of female/male writers I read through the year.

6This-n-That
Déc 14, 2016, 11:23 am

>5 ursula: It worked for me because I don't feel like I'm reading a bunch of extraneous stuff just to check off a list.

That is why I avoid many challenges with specific criteria now. I don't find myself enjoying seeking out a book just to fulfill a weird category such as, "read a book with green and purple grapes on the cover". ;-)

7AnnieMod
Déc 14, 2016, 12:08 pm

>5 ursula: If you are doing an alphabetical challenge, http://www.librarything.com/groups/alphabetchallenges might be of interest :)

Now back on topic :)

Q1. Reading plans

I gave up on planning and challenges a few years back - same reasons as >5 ursula: for the most part but also because after a few books, it starts feeling more like homework than fun. So I do not really have plans for next year although I am planning to try to change a few things:
- Magazines and journals (online, ebook or print) - I had been stacking them (or bookmarking them) and had read almost none of them.
- Comics - somehow I managed to not read a single comics this year - which is weird. Part of it was that when something arrived, I could not find the previous volume (now with the new bookcases and library, that should get better - once I am done getting things on the shelf).
- Non-fiction - I used to read a lot of it and this year had been weird on that as well
- Short stories - see the above three categories
- Keep on with the few authors (Cherryh, Asher, McDevitt, and series (Perry Mason, Spenser, Nero Wolfe) I had started reading lately and catch up on the authors I tend to read as soon as they publish something. Probably add a few more series and authors to the list
- Read my own books - between packing and moving and not enough space I could never find what I wanted to read - so I had been using the library heavily. Which is fine but I have a lot of books in the house (and on the kindle) as well.

And of course, whatever else catches my eye - I may make some effort to read translated literature (not sure what region) or go back to my "read history in order" efforts but at this point, I am really reluctant to make any definitive plans

8tonikat
Modifié : Déc 14, 2016, 6:46 pm

Q1
The new group is here, 2017 is fast approaching, so it's time for the traditional first question! What are your reading plans (or anti-plans) for the year ahead? Will you plot out your reading ahead of time, are you doing lots of challenges, do you do all your reading with spur of the moment decisions? How do you envision your 2017 reading to go?


I've not been good at plans - but since the start of this year ('16) have thought a lot more about it, as some lengthy posts on my (then) thread show. So, I think the plan is one of being more focussed. My recent rules (which I have already started to drift from) included focussing on two books at a time, need to get back at that. With it I suppose I hope to deepen appreciation of what I do read and also to fill some of the huge holes in the string vest of my reading - I won't try and plan content too much though, I have clarified interests a bit already. I'd like to increase the amount of books I finish - just once to reach fifty. In some periods I am well on track for that, and then I drift. I wonder if I read that much if I'd take it all in, but then I look back at this year and wonder that anyway. I have prioritised and ordered my reading a bit and also caught up somewhat with a backlog of cataloguing, maybe it will help in choosing what to read next, or maybe its all (I'm) a lost cause and I'll meander on in my driftiness...as long as it gets me to better practice, attitude and understanding, that'd be a good aim.

9avaland
Déc 16, 2016, 9:58 am

Q1

I suppose I fall into the "anti-plan" category. I work hard to keep myself a literary free-spirit. LOL. I'm also a mood reading and usually have 2-3 books in process at any one time.

I rarely declare goals, but I hope to read more than I did in 2016. That said, I know my reading levels have waxed and waned over the decades depending on what other activities I'm caught up in and what else life brings, so that's why more reading is a "hope" not a goal.

It would be nice to read some of the books I've accumulated, which I'm sure I will, but then there are always shiny, new books....

10majkia
Déc 16, 2016, 10:19 am

Q1: My major plan for the year are the 24 books on my TBR Challenge, which are all by women in the SF/F genre. Otherwise, I'm hoping to make some good progress on a number of series I'm reading, and hoping to read mostly books I've owned since 2016.

I read mostly Sci Fi, Fantasy, Mysteries and some historical novels.

11Nickelini
Déc 16, 2016, 12:32 pm

I like goals because I like to make lists and I like to check things off, and I also like to go back and read lists months and years later. However, I also don't like boxing myself in or making reading feel like homework. My solution is to make goals and challenges and keep them really loose and flexible.I also know that any given year I'll read 65-100 books, and I make my goals and challenges apply to about a third of my reading, and two-thirds is wherever the spirit leads.

12Book-Dragon1952
Modifié : Déc 17, 2016, 12:32 pm

I am going to do a few challenges this year, but mainly hoping to just read from my huge TBR pile. I have a few non-fiction books to start the year and a lot of fiction, I'd like to catch up on.

13thorold
Déc 17, 2016, 3:37 pm

Anti-plan, on the whole.

I intend to take part in at least some of the Reading Globally theme reads this year, and I'd like to read at least a few books off the TBR shelf, but other than that I'm going to go with the flow. I've got enough things to plan for in 2017 as it is, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of those are reflected in what I find myself reading...

14bragan
Modifié : Déc 18, 2016, 12:38 am

I'm not one to rigidly plan out my reading, with lists of books I'm intending to get to, or anything. But I do have some goals.

For one thing, I'm intending to do the ROOT (Read Our Own Tomes) group challenge again, which involves setting your own challenge goal for books you already own. People's interpretations of that vary, but I always define it as reading books I already owned at the start of the year. If the idea is to help keep the TBR list down by resisting the lure of shiny new volumes, it is, I admit, an abject failure in my case, because the TBR just keeps on rising. But it does provide a nice incentive not to let all those unread books stay unread.

2017 happens to be my Tenth Thingaversary, so I figured I'd add an extra goal to that this year, too: to make a point of reading some number of books that have been sitting around on the TBR shelves for that entire decade. There being a rather depressing number of those.

Otherwise, my vague goal for the year mostly involves series. There are a lot of those that I want to continue with, pick up on again, start, or re-start. Most notably, I'm planning on doing stage 2 of my Discworld re-read. Last year, I read all of the books featuring Death. This year, I'm intending to get through the City Watch books.

15thorold
Déc 18, 2016, 12:26 pm

>14 bragan: books that have been sitting around on the TBR shelves for that entire decade

Maybe I should try that, too. I've only got six catalogued as TBR with entry dates in 2007, so I ought to be able to reduce that number by at least 50% in a year. Or decide that I'm never going to read them and give them away...

16bragan
Déc 18, 2016, 10:28 pm

>15 thorold: You've got a much better shot at catching up on those than me! Might not be a bad idea.

17jjmcgaffey
Déc 19, 2016, 1:29 am

I count BOMBs (Books Off My Bookshelf) as books that have been around for at least a year (from the time I start reading them). In a few cases a book missed by only a month or so... I have a lot of books that I cataloged when I joined LT in 2007 (well, joined in 2006, started cataloging in 2007), that I haven't read since then; and more, that I've never read. That might be an idea, start working from the back end. But of course I'd have to _find_ them...

18.Monkey.
Déc 19, 2016, 5:37 am

Q1
Reading plans

For 2016 I actually, for the first time ever, came up with a whole big plan - my TBR Challenge titles assigned to months, a bunch of1001 list titles assigned slots, some other things languishing, etc. And I really liked it! For me, it's not meant to be set in stone; if I don't get to something one month or I pull something to read now instead of its assigned slot 3 mos from now, that's not something I have issue with. And it also doesn't cover everything I read, I don't schedule in my modern genre fic, the stuff I pick up between other things, and whatnot. So yeah, I like having a proper list of titles I'd like to make it through during the year, for one reason or another, I like the focus it gives. So I am planning on repeating that process again.
Included will of course be my 24 titles from my TBR Challenge, 1001 list titles, a selection of nonfic (I didn't do as much as I'd hoped on that this year), and attention paid to titles by women, PoC, translations, etc, basically anything not by SWM (especially English-speaking ones). Again the vast majority continuing to be from my shelves. In other words, pretty much the same as my 2016 plans. :P I'll also be doing the Benelux theme in Reading Globally, so Dutch books will be a kind of mini-theme in my reading, along with Russian apparently, as without intentionally doing so I wound up with 5 titles on my TBR list by Russians, lol.

19kidzdoc
Déc 19, 2016, 6:41 am

As usual I have no reading plans this year.

20AnnieMod
Déc 19, 2016, 1:06 pm

>17 jjmcgaffey: I am considering going the other direction - read the books that are arriving now, and pick up the old ones when there is nothing new arriving (or when the new one is next in a series where I am way behind). Maybe that will help with my TBR...

21jjmcgaffey
Déc 20, 2016, 12:28 am

>20 AnnieMod: Heh. I tend to get books in bunches (have you seen the Open Road Media sale (free books!) on Kindle? Or my library book sale...), so if I concentrated on new books I'd be behind faster. If I start with the old I can at least feel I'm accomplishing something.

>18 .Monkey.: I was wondering why you didn't want to read stuff by single white males...took several seconds to correctly translate SWM!

22AnnieMod
Déc 20, 2016, 1:03 am

>21 jjmcgaffey: Well - same here but at least the ones arriving now are the ones I wanted now... :) So depends on how you look at it - if you had read all books you bought in 2017 at the end of the year, it is still accomplishment, right? (she said knowing that she buys a lot more books than she can read even if she does not go to the library...) :)

23.Monkey.
Déc 20, 2016, 5:09 am

>21 jjmcgaffey: Hahaha! I guess I spend a good bit of time online around the activist sort (aside of here, my main internet hangout is a smaller social media site, where a handful of friends (and friends of friends) are LGBTQ and/or activists for equality), so it's something I see relatively frequently, and hadn't given much thought to others not being in the same boat, lol.

24japaul22
Déc 20, 2016, 7:28 am

I've had a couple of years where I didn't really plan anything except for joining in a few planned group reads. However, I've been getting to the end of these years feeling like I missed a good amount of books that I really wanted to get to in favor of distractions (newly published works, some of which were worth it, some not; recommendations from friends; group reads that I feel internal pressure to join) so this year I divided my reading into proportional categories and actually made a list of books for each.

I picked 25 books from the 1001 books to read before you die list, 25 books off my shelf, and then unlimited miscellaneous for everything else (based on past experience this will be about 30 books). If you're really curious about these lists, they are in my category challenge thread for 2017. http://www.librarything.com/topic/238923

The only narrow goal I have is to start reading Proust's The Remembrance of Things Past and books surrounding it. This will probably be at least a two year project.

I'm not going to be surprised if I vary from these predetermined reading lists, but I'm curious to see if it helps me get to more of the books I think I will really enjoy or if it ends up feeling too much like work.

25AlisonY
Déc 20, 2016, 8:30 am

I'm going to continue to be swamped by work in 2017, so my only plan is to try to always have a book on the go, even if I'm only managing a book a month.

I'm not getting to the library any more, so any advanced reading plans have gone out the window, but I'm quite enjoying the randomness of picking up books now and again out of charity shops to keep me going.

26kaylaraeintheway
Déc 21, 2016, 3:46 pm

I feel like I did not get as much reading done this year as I had hoped, so for 2017 I'm going to help hold myself accountable (especially where my TBR pile is concerned) by participating in a few reading challenges:

1. Retro Rereads (via Book Riot - pick books that were your favorites from childhood, high school, college, etc.)
2. Read Harder Challenge (also from Book Riot, this challenges encourages participants to read more diverse books)
3. A to Z Challenge (there are many out there, but I'm doing this one specifically on Litsy)

I anticipate some overlap with these challenges, which is a-OK with me. I just want to put a sizable dent in my TBR mountain!

27Rebeki
Déc 26, 2016, 7:26 am

As stated elsewhere, I'm not one for planning my reading, and setting rigid goals is counterproductive for me. That said, I've read the first book in both Elena Ferrante's Neapolitian Novels and Miklós Bánffy's Transylvanian Trilogy and would like to complete these respective series in 2017.

Otherwise, I simply wish to keep reading and avoid any reading slumps, which means picking up whatever I feel like at the time. I definitely have plenty of unread books on my shelves to choose from!

As such, the only challenge I'm considering is the ROOT (Read Your Own Tomes) Challenge.

28.Monkey.
Déc 26, 2016, 7:52 am

>27 Rebeki: If you're up for a small amount of preselected titles, you could likewise consider the TBR Challenge, where we choose a list of 12 "primary" and 12 "alternate" titles, and the official goal is to finish at least 12 by the year's end. Aside of CR, it's my favorite spot on LT. :)

29Rebeki
Déc 26, 2016, 11:26 am

>28 .Monkey.: I think I tried that challenge a few years ago (and failed miserably). It was a friendly group, but I learned I couldn't even bear to single out just 12 books for reading, even with alternates :) I suspect part of the problem is that I only manage about 40 books a year in total, so I'm not left with much room for manoeuvre...

30kac522
Déc 27, 2016, 9:27 pm

>5 ursula: and >7 AnnieMod: Another place for an alphabet challenge is AlphaKit 2017: https://www.librarything.com/topic/243405

31.Monkey.
Déc 28, 2016, 8:20 am

>29 Rebeki: Actually at least one of the members says most of his annual reading is his picks for the group. :P

32Trifolia
Déc 28, 2016, 8:58 am

My intention is to revive and finish some of the challenges I started years ago and participate in some others:
- Reading Globally Personal Challenge;
- Reading Globally Quarterly Theme Reads;
- Reading Through Time Personal Challenge (mostly books from the "1001 Books to read before you die"-list);
- Reading through Time Quarterly Theme Reads;
- Reading through Time Monthly Theme;
- Tour through Europe Personal Challenge;
- Reading the Dutch and Flemish classics Personal Challenge;
- Any other challenge that might pop up or catch my attention. Suggestions are welcome.

Probably too ambitious but one can dream...

33cindydavid4
Déc 28, 2016, 9:23 am

Ive never been able to stick with a reading challenge. There are just too many shiny covers out there to distract me, and if the book I am reading is not for me, Im prone to just drop it and reach for another. I suspect that tendency is getting worse as I get older too...

34mabith
Déc 28, 2016, 11:05 am

I've been slightly anti-plan l for the last two years, in terms of not having a numerical goal. I had loose goals of wanting to read more women than men and making sure I was reading from authors outside the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

This year I had a late goal of wanting to read authors from 50 distinct countries, which I did meet and I'm going to have that goal in 2017 as well. I might also reintroduce a numerical goal of 300, since I've read more each year for the last few and I think it's doable.

I was fairly dismal at getting to my owned-but-unread books this year, as my pain's been worse and reading in print was so much harder. I'm hoping things will change next year, but not sure I'm willing to set a specific goal there. I don't actually have all that many books in that category though, so it's not a huge worry.

35cindydavid4
Déc 31, 2016, 2:17 pm

I can't stick with a reading plan - There are just too many shiny new books coming out that I have to get to right now, along with the ones I hear about from you good people, books I didn't know about and am ready to dive in. I enjoy a wide range of books, from fiction to non, from English to translate. I hope being part of this place will help me expand my range

I have noticed however that the number of my yearly reads has dropped considerably over the last five years (used to be over 100; now its about half that). Not sure if its age, or just too many distractions. I can't change my age (don't I wish) so I'd like to reduce my distractions (namely, the internet!) and focus more on reading. And as usual, I am always looking for new to me authors, new places to discover, new ways to think. So thats my plan and Im sticking to it! :)

36rachbxl
Jan 1, 2017, 6:37 am

I generally don't plan, and for the last few years I've been reading completely spontaneously, just to please myself. Before that I used to take part in the odd Reading Globally challenge, involving reading a book from a particular country/region rather than reading a specific book, but even that became a bit too prescriptive. But my reading tastes and mood evolve with everything else in life, and I'm currently feeling that I want, if not to plan my reading as such (that would be counter-productive), then at least set myself some goals, although I'm still a bit hazy as to exactly what. I'm a linguist by trade, and I would like to increase the amount I read in my working languages, as that has slipped to woeful levels recently. Primarily a reader of fiction, I often think that I would like to read more non-fiction, so that's a goal in itself. I also want to become more active again in my reading around the world - I used to seek out books from particular parts of the world; some were duds, but most weren't, and it brought me a lot of reading pleasure. For the last few years, though, I've neglected that completely, and have only added new literary destinations by accident, as it were, so I'd like to get back to it.

Oh, and I hope to be an active member of CR again, like in the good old days. We'll see.

37qebo
Jan 2, 2017, 8:54 pm

>1 .Monkey.:
No long term plans. I'm in two RL book groups, so that's two book obligations per month. One selects for 6 month stretches, the other selects month by month. I have occasional other reading obligations, and don't want magazine subscriptions going to waste. This year I expect to cut back from the pace of 75, which is barely attainable if I work at it consistently. So it'll be maybe 2-3 books per month of flexibility. Given the constant bombardment of shiny objects here on LT, I want freedom to choose at whim.

38ipsoivan
Jan 2, 2017, 9:54 pm

I love making plans, but I'm learning that I also love rebelling sometime during the year.

This year I'm trying to play it loose, although those here who do have plans are making me long to create one for myself. We'll see.

Last year, my most successful plan, apart from reading a lot of my own books, was organizing them on my shelves alphabetically by author, and then tackling the ones I had not read. Such treasures I had been avoiding, thinking they were going to take too much brain power, or just that I had had them for so long they had become invisible to me!

This year I will continue to read alphabetically when I feel like it, but with full permission to wander off to new pastures if I want.

39Simone2
Jan 3, 2017, 1:30 am

Q1: the reading plan

My plan doesn't vary much from other years. I try to read about 50 books from the 1001 list (among which I will start reading Proust this year, thanks to Jennifer!) and read the Booker finalists. Furthermore I let myself be inspired by reviews here. I am very impulsive and can buy a book minutes after I have read a good review.
Another plan is always to read more of the unread books I own than buy new ones, but this plan fails hopelessly most years... and I don't mind!

40dchaikin
Jan 18, 2017, 8:44 am

I thought about this question a lot but never got around to posting. On Jan 1 I was really conflicted about planning because I like the freedom off plan, but also I have had mixed success on plan - and that's something. Most reading plans fail, like most diets plans. But occasionally I have done the part of the plan and one year I did all the plan and it a great year. Last year I got off plan to get more into depth in other books related to my themes. That's a kind if success too. But plans are constricting.

Now I have a plan for the year. It's loose and I'm not posting about it in full yet. But what I like is that it has allowed me, for the moment, to relax about my reading speed and choices. And, if I need to stick in another book, I have some room for it. Actually I want to read about my planned books - so that's an extra of sorts.

My problem of being off plan is that you can't always be lost in a book. Sometimes you are and then there's nothing to worry about. But sometimes I need a drive, usually a curiosity drive. And so I plan to actually develop that drive ot flow, if possible. Also, off plan, it's very difficult to pick up a big book when there are so many read. On plan, I have on blinders and hopefully I've built in the time so that I'm happy to pick it up.

41dchaikin
Jan 18, 2017, 8:45 am

Maybe we need a new question. ??

Sassy? .Monk? Should we take requests?

42.Monkey.
Jan 18, 2017, 11:26 am

Indeed, I meant to post on the weekend and got distracted, thanks for the reminder. :) You can always drop a line on my profile if I'm being negligent. ;)

Q2
We all know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but what about its title?
How important and/or influential is a book's title to you? Do you like more straight-forward titles, like character names (Jane Eyre) or key locations (The House Next Door) or mini summaries (20,000 Leagues Under the Sea), or do you prefer a more creative, obtuse title (Their Eyes Were Watching God) to pique your imagination? How do you feel when the less-direct title is alluded to in the text; any preferences relating to the "reveal"? Are you bothered when the connection between a title and the content is rather vague?

43Simone2
Jan 18, 2017, 4:52 pm

Q2: The title

Most books I buy because I have read or heard about them. I seldom buy books spontaneously without any knowledge of them. If I do, however, the title plays an important role (I pick a book up because of the title - to me it is even more appealing than the cover).

I like the creative ones better than the descriptive ones. For example I bought In the Light of what we Know purely based on its title.

A few example of titles that appeal to me and come to mind immediately are The Nix, H is for Hawk, Homesick for Another World and The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

I don't mind when the connection with the content is vague, although when I don't see the connection, I keep thinking about it for days. But I kind of like that.

44dchaikin
Jan 18, 2017, 9:38 pm

Thanks .Monk. I think I have some confusion on how this thread is working. My post seems to be bothersome, but that really wasn't my intention. Sorry. Anyway, interesting question...

45dchaikin
Jan 18, 2017, 9:40 pm

Q2

For a novel, it's always nice when the title has special meaning within the text itself, something that means more to someone who has read the book than someone who hasn't.

For nonfiction I hate hate hate when the subtitles inaccurately characterizes the content.

46mabith
Jan 18, 2017, 10:34 pm

I was thinking about the issues of titles when I finished Before We Visit the Goddess. It's a great title, but felt to me like it was plucked out simply because it's a great title. What it relates to in the book is a tiiiny incident relating only to one of the principle characters.

Titles don't draw or repel me generally, but I do think about them during and after reading. The only point where a title might draw me is for a children's book. Miss Bianca in the Salt Mines being a recent example (though I was already reading the series). In my bookclub we recently discussed The Wiregrass, which a friend and I both found lacking but she commented that it was a great title. At this point I do a bit of an eye-roll at the "The XYZ's Wife/Sister/Daughter" title trope.

I share Dan's anger at incorrect subtitles in non-fiction. A few days ago I had to explain to my nephew was a subtitle and I maybe have gone on a bit of a rant about that.

47.Monkey.
Jan 19, 2017, 4:39 am

For a novel, it's always nice when the title has special meaning within the text itself, something that means more to someone who has read the book than someone who hasn't.

Totally agreed, I like when the title is creatively tied in with the text, and becomes clear after reading it. Especially if it's a really intriguing title! Personally I love when the reveal comes at least halfway through, so there's some expectation, waiting to see just what it will mean. When it comes really early on I almost feel a bit let down, no suspense!, even though I know that's silly, haha.

I do pick up books randomly, I love just browsing and, aside of seeing if there's any titles I've been wanting to read, just seeing if anything jumps out at me. A really great creative title can definitely make me pick it up, though if a skim of the blurb doesn't sound as interesting then back down it goes, lol. Of course even with fiction books, a straight-forward title can still be enticing, especially if it's historical fic or somehow inspired by something/someone real, then alluding to that in the title can be helpful; and nonfic books can be a bit creative, too, though it's good if they then have a subtitle that gives a little info (and yes, it ought to be accurate!). I just read In the Pirate's Den: My Life as a Secret Agent for Castro, and while I like the Pirate's Den part, and the Castro bit actually telling what it's about, I do feel it was slightly misleading. It was a great book, but while he technically worked for Cuban intelligence on & off for years, it had very little to do with Castro and he was mostly traveling and working with revolutionaries, not much was described that I would really call "secret agent"-like, though again technically, he was operating under the radar and using false papers when he traveled. So I feel it was more of a hook, "secret agent" and "Castro" being seen as more enticing than something about Latin American revolutionaries.
But anyhow, I definitely prefer the more artsy sort of titles. They stick better in my mind, standing out more, and make me curious how they tie in and what they mean. :)

48cindydavid4
Modifié : Jan 19, 2017, 8:33 am

I love play on words or language, those titles tend to capture me immediately (and I esp love it when the play is even more twisted in the text itself). I also love a cover that means more than one thing. It took me a bit to see how Major Pettigrew's Last Stand played so well with the cover.

I so agree about the subtitles Last year I found a whose title, now forgotten, a sub entitled 'following the trail of Agatha Christie" Im not a big fan of hers, but I do enjoy these literary travel narratives. Boy what a disappointment - most of the book was about the author and his obsession with old train cars....bah! One of my favorite non fiction titles was The Immortal Lives of Henrietta Lachs because you think you know what it means and then its not, but in a good way

49RidgewayGirl
Jan 19, 2017, 9:22 am

I think that my reaction to a title depends on the genre. I choose most of my reading because of author, reviews, discussions/comments here and prize longlists. The title is largely irrelevant, although it can make me want to pick up one book before another with a less intriguing name.

With crime fiction, my genre of choice, the title is important. A generically-titled book is one that I forget the title of soon after reading, leaving me looking at an author's body of work and wondering if this is the one with the body in the fridge, or is it the one with the missing trapeze artist. And I will pick up a cleverly-titled debut novel much more easily than one with a boring title.

My other pet peeve with crime fiction titles has to do with the tendency for a book to be published in the UK with one title, another for the US and any translations might have foreign language version of the original title or a new one altogether. This leads to me getting all excited that a writer I enjoy has written a book I haven't read, only to discover, sometimes after purchase, that it has just been renamed. The most egregious example of this is Sophie Hannah. Her British titles all refer subtly to the plot of the novel. Her American publisher, however, decided to give her novels generic crimey titles that are almost meaningless in relation to the book.

50This-n-That
Jan 20, 2017, 10:27 am

For all gneres, I'd rather the title be straight forward, or at least representative of the story.

51bragan
Jan 21, 2017, 3:59 pm

Q2: I can't say I have really strong opinions about titles, and once I get into a book, I'm not sure the title usually matters much to me one way or another. Unless it's misleading, anyway. Like other folks above, I've read a fair few non-fiction books with titles (or, more specifically, subtitles) that I've thought were misleading, and those do not do the books any favors.

It is true, though, that a clever, unusual, or intriguing title will catch my eye and make me give the a book a second glance in a way that a bland title won't, and I can certainly appreciate a particularly creative and apt title. And it's also true that I'm getting very tired of titles with the word "girl" in them. Especially if the "girl" in question is actually a grown-ass woman.

52jjmcgaffey
Jan 22, 2017, 1:18 am

I don't think I really notice titles in the sense of being drawn to a book by them - I tend to choose by series, author, genre. I do, however, normally _remember_ titles, and really get annoyed at a few authors whose titles don't relate to the book at all - Dick Francis springs to mind. Some of them do relate - Shattered is the glasswright, Reflex is about a photographer. But Flying Finish isn't the one about the pilot - it does involve planes, but I always think it's the other one (whose name I can't remember at all right now). And there's the one about the toymaker that again, the title doesn't relate. Bah. Some of them are cleverly connected, but too many of his titles don't resonate with the story at all for me.

53janemarieprice
Jan 22, 2017, 9:55 am

I don't think titles affect whether I'm going to pick up a book or not but certainly some do sound really cool. Agree with all on stupid nonfiction subtitles which seem the norm these days - they're like the tease before commercials of the news "what you don't know about juice could KILL YOU!" In fiction the only thing I kind of roll my eyes with is if the title appears word for word in the novel somewhere. That just feels forced to me. Granted I also hate when an author repeats a phrase in the novel more than once also. Where is your editor?

54AnnieMod
Modifié : Jan 22, 2017, 9:01 pm

Q2. I have two different answers - one for fiction and one for non-fiction

Non-fiction - I hate titles that do not give you any idea what the book is about. And as with pretty much everyone that already responded, I really hate sensational subtitles -- especially when UK and USA use different ones so that the book sound more important for their readers. Subtitles are important, they allow the title to be alluding to the topic without spelling it out but the modern publishers use them for marketing purposes to the extreme.

Fiction is a bit more complicated. Play on words and expressions, allusions and all kind of similes - they all can make a powerful title. What I really dislike is when the title gives away a major point in a series (for example the third book named in a way that gives away the plot of the second one - seems to happen sometimes in fantasy) or even in the same novel. And then there is the renaming inside of the English -speaking world (the same novel carrying different name in UK, USA and Australia). Vagueness is ok as long as the connection is somewhere there - and we do not have to have read a non-related book to get it - if the book is making a play in a Shakespeare play, that's ok to use a Shakespearean line for a title but if your main character loves reading an author that is known to love Shakespeare, maybe that connection is a bit too vague...

And then there are the translations. Titles are always hard to translate and sometimes the translations are taken to an extreme - either a word for word when there is a word play that does not exist in the new language or a name that has nothing to do with the original name. And then, a second translation in the same language picks a new title - because the new translator made a different choice.

Forgot part of the question - it rarely makes a difference for me in terms of reading. I grew up with translated literature and that made the titles almost irrelevant except for making sure I had not read the book again. I like nicely crafted titles but it is not a reason not to read a book (although a weird title may make me look at a book - but I would not read it just because of a title. But then the same applies to unusual format or unusual cover).

55thorold
Jan 23, 2017, 1:16 pm

I like to think that titles don't matter - but then it occurs to me that the South Africans banned Black Beauty during the apartheid era...

56cindydavid4
Jan 23, 2017, 6:55 pm

are you kidding me? oh my gawd...

>54 AnnieMod: I agree with you, the title rarely affect my reading experience. If it sounds up my alley or recommended by a reliable source, I just get the book and read, and then forget the title and often the author!

57.Monkey.
Jan 25, 2017, 9:24 am

Q3
Ah how opinions vary, even among the bookish!
"Keep reading books, but remember that a book is only a book, and you should learn to think for yourself." –Maxim Gorky
vs
"If we encounter a man of rare intellect, we should ask him what books he reads." –Ralph Waldo Emerson

Are books what teach us to think wisely, or do we need to step away from them and learn about life elsewhere? Who do you agree with, or do you have your own alternate viewpoint? What are your thoughts?

58cindydavid4
Modifié : Jan 25, 2017, 10:09 pm

I didn't think it was an either/or choice. Of course you should think for yourself, but who said you have to believe everything you read! (that is the problem with social media; too many folk do). There was a poem, can't remember if it was ee cummings, about life being more than about books. Im a bookworm, but still totally agree with it (does anyone remember the poem im talkin about?)

59thorold
Jan 26, 2017, 5:58 am

>58 cindydavid4: Agreed.

What was the context of that Emerson quote, I wonder? - Did he go on to say "...and then we should go around claiming that we've read those books too, and everyone will be impressed."?
But I suppose the belief that reading "the best books" will necessarily make you a better person goes with that whole late-19th/early-20th century self-improvement ethos, so he probably did mean "...and then read them yourself".

"Wisdom" is a term that normally gets used for the sort of baby-bisecting skills that trusted, competent, older people are supposed to have learnt from their life experiences. I'm sure books can teach you to take your mind in directions you wouldn't have gone in by yourself, and help with techniques for structuring arguments and so on, but the part of your decision-making ability that is reckoned to be "wise" will have come from your practical experience of people and situations, and the previous mistakes you've made.

60tonikat
Jan 26, 2017, 8:54 am

I also agree. It would be good to know the context for Emerson's quote. I've not really read Emerson, but from what I know of him I'd doubt he is at the pole of just suggesting reading...is anyone at that pole?

In a way it occurs to me that a book is technology and like any tool it's as good as how we use it.

Where I get something from this question is the issue of how much I should read and how much I should think. I've picked up somewhere that the reason university terms and holidays are as they are is to give people time to dwell on their reading - but I cannot vouch that that is true.

I have read very intensely at some times, as a student, and yes I definitely need time to think about what I read. I also seem to need quite a bit of time with my reading levels as they are now. I find writing in my threads about my reading can help me to think about it. But also know some things stick more than others whatever I do, even maybe good things. In a way I wonder if either way, whether reading heavily or lightly that the key to the reading and I guess to other things might be taking the right attitude to it. Quite a Buddhist point - to go back to one of my familiar themes - thinking of my Shunryu Suzuki reading there is the idea that if you sit right then you may then necessarily achieve right attitude an right understanding. Its getting that right that seems to underlie the issue here. Whilst it would be nice to sit perfectly it would take practice and I think it's well demonstrated that it takes work through meditation to move towards such as this, and definitely takes practice for me -- so I think I've found my answer, books may teach even wisdom, but the big thing is my approach to them, to the use of them and to life...they may help, but in longer term that's what I need.

There is another aspect to the Emerson quote and that was to ask that person about their reading - and to me whilst a solitary study may have good aspects, that thing of talking, like we do here is very important both for myself, but also, I think, for society.

61jjmcgaffey
Jan 27, 2017, 12:28 am

>58 cindydavid4: I don't know the poem you're talking about, I don't think, but the question makes me think of the Kipling poem about the man who died and had never done anything but read, so he got sent back to live and _do_ things. Tomlinson - http://www.bartleby.com/364/189.html

I don't know. Just reading isn't enough, but reading can give you (an idea, a beginning) of so much more than you can experience in just one life. There's a quote (I think it's a variation/parody about the one about the coward dies a thousand deaths) that's something like "The reader lives a thousand lives, the one who doesn't read just one".

62.Monkey.
Fév 5, 2017, 12:21 pm

Q4
Well there's all kinds of talk about foreigners these days, from EOs issued in the US, to refugees around the world. Thinking of your shelves/reading, do you cover much that is "foreign" to you? Authors from other parts of the globe, different cultures, languages, skin colors, gender identities, etc? Do you intentionally seek or avoid foreign works, or is your selection more haphazard? If it is intentional, why do you choose to do so, and accordingly, do you feel like you are expanding your knowledge/limiting yourself at all? Do you have any desire to change your habits, whatever they are?

63Simone2
Fév 5, 2017, 1:57 pm

Q4

I have always read a lot of books from other cultures. In University I studied Spanish and travelled a lot to Latin America. I read a lot of Latin American books then.

I also have always been very interested in Middle Eastern and Japanese literature.

Somehow I hardly read any African writers, only through the 1001 list.
Reading the 1001 list definitely broaded my scope. Through the list I have discovered authors from all over the world, which is really, really nice.

Finally, I read a lot of European authors but that doesn't sound like other cultures.

64cindydavid4
Modifié : Fév 5, 2017, 4:57 pm

I read a ton of travel narratives, ones often written by non English authors. Otherwise I don't tend to seek that out in fiction. I have read authors like Isabel Allende, Irene Nimrovsky, Romain Gary (Life Before Us written long ago is perfect for now) ..Lately have gotten addicted to Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, and would like to read more African authors. .I certainly don't avoid international authors. Honestly I often don't notice who the author is when a book is interesting to me. I get pleasantly surprised when I find out. I would like to expand my horizons and look for more international authors purposefully. This is why I am so enjoying read the 'Reading Globally' group here. I have a very long list now of must reads - I may be some time :)

65fuzzy_patters
Fév 5, 2017, 5:40 pm

I don't seek out international authors, but I don't avoid them, either. I just try to read good books that sound interesting to me. After all, all authors are foreign. None of them have lived the same lives that we have lived. They are different ages from us, have lived in different eras from us, have lived in different cultures from us, and know different people from us.

66jjmcgaffey
Modifié : Fév 5, 2017, 6:44 pm

Since I'm a Foreign Service brat, I read some books about cultures that I (sort of) experienced while growing up. Quite a few about Afghanistan (though thinking about it, most of them are about the experiences of foreigners in Afghanistan...some by Afghans, though), some about Greece (again, some about foreigners in Greece, some about Greeks - in this case, quite a few about Greek history and pre-history as well), etc. I don't seek out foreign writers because they're foreign; on the few occasions I've tried a well-hyped translated book, too many of them have turned out to be what I would consider "literary fiction", which I don't read from anyone (because I don't enjoy being depressed). The most recent example is The Elegance of the Hedgehog - ugh. I guess most of my reading that isn't native English speakers is non-fiction - not all, but the majority. But I do read British and Australian novels (whenever I can find the latter!). Not because they're from a different country but because the book sounds interesting - as >64 cindydavid4: says, I generally choose for the story and notice the author afterward (if the author is new to me - I will pick up a "new X" from a favorite author without checking (much) what the story is).

So in summary - I read a few books by foreign authors (which I define as non-native English speakers). Not a vast number, and a good deal of what I read is non-fiction. I tend to choose such books by subject rather than by author. And no, I'm not particularly interested in changing this - when I've occasionally tried to expand, I've run into books I actively dislike often enough that I'll stick to my usual way of choosing.

67nrmay
Modifié : Fév 5, 2017, 7:01 pm

This is a great question!
I seek out books about different cultures and countries. When I looked back at books read in 2016 I found 14 titles that fit the topic. All recommended!

Above the East China Sea Bird. Okinawa, WWII era and present day. FIC
A Thousand Miles to Freedom: My Escape from North Korea Kim. NON-FIC
Joe and Azat Longergan. graphic novel, loosely based on Lonergan's Peace Corps experience in the former Soviet republic of Turkmenistan.
Pavillion of Women Buck. Family life in China, WWII era. FIC
YOTSUBA&! Azuma. Japanese manga. FIC
Prayers for the Stolen Clement. Mexico. FIC
Imani All Mine Inner city culture of poverty. FIC
The Arrival Tan. Immigrants. Graphic novel.
The Summer Book Jansson. Finland. FIC
Elephant Company: The Inspiring Story of an Unlikely Hero and the Animals Who Helped Him Save Lives in World War II Croke. Burma. NON-Fic
Salt to the Sea Sepetys. Germany, WWII. FIC
Chasing the North Star Morgan. African-Americans - historical FIC.
Journey to America Levitin. Jews in Germany, WWII. FIC
The Fences Between Us : the Diary of Piper Davis Larson. Japanese Americans, internment WWII. FIC

68mabith
Fév 5, 2017, 9:55 pm

I do make an effort to read authors outside the Anglophone countries (but especially outside the US and UK). Last year only 62% of my reads were from the USA and UK authors and I'm pretty happy with that ratio. I ended up reading authors from 53 unique countries, and I want to hit at least 50 again this year.

I don't pick up books that don't appeal to me just because the author is from elsewhere or just to tick a box. What I read is still just what interests me but I make a special effort to expose myself to a wide variety of author backgrounds. Since I rely a lot on audiobooks that really takes specific concentrated searching to find audiobooks in translation and by authors from other countries, especially for non-fiction. If I didn't specifically look for things I wouldn't encounter that many.

There's a lot of world out there.

69RecklessReader
Modifié : Fév 5, 2017, 10:12 pm

I find it difficult, and generally unsuccessful, to plan what I read. Sometimes I find an interesting reading plan (Book Riot), but I'm rarely able to stick with it. Reading for me is about enjoyment and escape. Sometimes when I come across an author and like the way they put things together ( Seanan McGuire ) I might re-read, or do a review. My reading style tends to very hedonistic, for better or worse.

70dchaikin
Fév 6, 2017, 12:35 am

Q3

Just thinking, those two quotes aren't necessarily contradictory. But, as for me, when reading for pleasure I don't read to learn so much as to read. And if your reading, learning, in a variety of ways, does tend to just kind of happen. It's not necessarily a practical thing, but can be haphazard and off topic. Reading involves exposure.

Q4

I like the idea of reading around the world, but I've never done it intentionally. Kind of in-line with my Q3 answer, I love the cultures that reading can expose me to and teach me about, and let me dwell within. I do think reading helps me relate to, and empathize with others better, in my culture and others. But, I can't be sure that is true. Might just be that I want it to do that.

71thorold
Fév 6, 2017, 4:51 am

>65 fuzzy_patters: After all, all authors are foreign. None of them have lived the same lives that we have lived.

Exactly!

If I limited myself to English-speaking authors who live in the Netherlands, I'd soon run out of books. (Apart from the detective stories of Nicholas Freeling, written about 50 years ago, I can't think of any worth reading...)

But I suppose what this question is really about is whether we stay within the literary tradition we grew up with. I don't. I've always got a lot of pleasure from discovering other languages and cultures through books. Which probably means that I spread myself too thin, and I know I have a bad habit of not reading many translations (on the basis that I want to learn that language one day...). But it's fun - last year, only about a third of the books I read were in English, which is probably a reasonable proportion.

72Nickelini
Fév 12, 2017, 8:34 pm

Q4
... Thinking of your shelves/reading, do you cover much that is "foreign" to you? Authors from other parts of the globe, different cultures, languages, skin colors, gender identities, etc? Do you intentionally seek or avoid foreign works, or is your selection more haphazard? If it is intentional, why do you choose to do so, and accordingly, do you feel like you are expanding your knowledge/limiting yourself at all? Do you have any desire to change your habits, whatever they are?


Mostly I agree with >65 fuzzy_patters: After all, all authors are foreign. None of them have lived the same lives that we have lived. They are different ages from us, have lived in different eras from us, have lived in different cultures from us, and know different people from us.

That said, yes, I do make a point every year of reading some books from authors who come from countries that are off my own personal beaten track. Mostly I'm happy to camp out in Brit lit, because it's my favourite by a lot, and I'm also catching up with all the CanLit I missed through the first 35 years of my life, but outside of that I do try to read diversely. So far this year I've read 2 UK, 1 Singapore, 1 Iceland, and now I'm in Norway.

73avaland
Fév 17, 2017, 11:13 am

Q4 On a base level, isn't this the purpose of fiction, to take us outside of ourselves? Whether that be a culture, an identity, a situation... And yet, we are taken out if only so we can see our common humanity, whether the ride be a soothing, comfortable, uncomfortable or downright disturbing one?

I think this echoes what >65 fuzzy_patters: fuzzy and >72 Nickelini: Nickelini have suggested.

However, that said, there is reading with intent. Intent to educate ourselves, to understand what we do not understand, and perhaps to right the uncomfortable things within us that we have inherited in one way or another (and sometimes we have to really push ourselves to do this, you know?) This, and an insatiable curiosity, is what drives me to read anything, "foreign" or otherwise (don't get me wrong, entertainment also is a factor here). And maybe this is what brought me to reading in the first place.

(Whoa, I got a little excited there, didn't I?)

Now, all that said, and sparing you my past reading pedigree (LOL), I have become a more relaxed, less driven reader in the last few years, not that my self-improvement has come to an end, of course, but I like to think I've internalized the habit.... (still pondering)

>70 dchaikin: re your response to Q4. Do you really doubt that? I think anyone's observation of your reading and responses would conclude that you have no reason to doubt.... I think you are a very intentional reader these days, but perhaps you gauge your learning as something more cerebral than emotional?

>71 thorold: But I suppose what this question is really about is whether we stay within the literary tradition we grew up with. This is a really interesting way of thinking about this...(ooo, you have my head buzzing thinking about other cultures' literary traditions).

74.Monkey.
Fév 28, 2017, 5:15 am

Q5
When reading books for school, there were usually questions that went along, before during and after. One of the most prominent was generally - what do you think is going to happen (next). When you read books now, do you stop and think about things like that? Do you make predictions about what will happen, or ask yourself why characters did certain things and analyze their behavior/motivation and whatnot? Or do you just read it all without much contemplation and then reflect on it only after you've finished?

75thorold
Fév 28, 2017, 11:39 am

>74 .Monkey.: Q5

I don't remember ever being asked "what do you think is going to happen next?", and I think there's probably a good reason for that: if you want students to answer analytically and imaginatively, you have to ask them a question that doesn't have a "correct" answer in the pages that lie ahead, ideally something counter-factual: "What do you think would have happened if ...?"

I seem to be inconsistent about this, as everything else: I often like to analyse things and pry them apart, and usually spend a lot of time thinking about the structure and purpose of book I'm reading when I'm not actually reading it, but sometimes I just leap into the story and let it carry me along. The intellectual effort isn't always in proportion to the weightiness of the book, though.

76jjmcgaffey
Fév 28, 2017, 2:23 pm

I think about what might happen next most often on books I don't like because I find them too predictable. I'll tell myself what cliche will come out next and how it will end. Then if the book _doesn't_ go that way, it's a noticeable improvement on what I was expecting. Sometimes not enough to make me happy with it, but at least better than the flat cliche. If I like a book, and am enjoying being swept along with it, I'll most often stop myself from speculating - "what will happen next? I don't know, better read more!".

I do think about the structure of the book more while I'm not reading (it takes a really bad book to get me analyzing _while_ I'm reading). But again, if it's a good book I'm likely to read it straight through or as close as possible (currently caught up in a space opera and finding hours slipping away as I read), so while I'll think about it afterward I know how it ends. That book, anyway - I will sometimes wonder about where the series will go, but if it's a well-written book there are multiple possible hooks and no blatant loose ends. So I'm more likely to analyze a book while I'm in the middle of it if it's not so enjoyable and I'm slogging through - it's as much fun to try and figure out what happens next as it is to read (not much, compared to reading a good book, that is).

77AnnieMod
Fév 28, 2017, 4:47 pm

Q5

And here is where the Western literature education clashes with the Eastern European one. You were expected to have read the book completely before any discussion started on it (which made it hard to spot things from a period you did not know but oh well). As a result, I never had the question "What do you think will happen next?". Instead the big questions always were "What was the lyrical hero thinking/feeling?" and "What did the author want to say here?" (which almost always made me wonder if I answer with "he said whatever he wanted to say", I will get a failing grade). By the time I started high school, I was very good at answering both questions -- in most cases with what the teachers expected to hear.

At the same time, I had been known to leave a book unfinished for a while so I can think/dream on what will happen next. Especially if I think that the book is not going in the direction I want it to go. Fan Fiction is not something I had heard of until a decade or so ago but what was happening in my head was exactly that - stories and actions based on what I had read. Which made it even harder to read some of the more complicated endings - when you spent a few days making your hero a special one and surviving, the book end sometimes fell flat... or clashed with my ideas.

As for the "why did the hero do it", there are two different categories of books where I am wondering this:
- authors manipulating the story by making the character extremely idiotic. Matt Marinovich's The Winter Girl was a prime example last year
- Books where the author actually know what they are doing and there will be answers downstream on why (even if they get bungled sometimes).
It is sometimes hard to differentiate although the second type seems to be less... crazy.

78dchaikin
Modifié : Fév 28, 2017, 6:56 pm

>73 avaland: Lois - I just saw your post. I guess I'm insecure about fooling myself.

Q5

I fight this so hard without even realizing it. I try to force myself to stay with the book in the present and not start thinking ahead of the conclusion...at least while I'm reading. As soon as I go zooming ahead, I've left the book, and I get impatient with what I'm reading (and annoyed at how wrong I tend to be.) But, inevitably, I spent the entire book thinking about where it's going, except when I'm thinking about where it's clearly not going.

And, interesting answers to Q5 so far.

79cindydavid4
Modifié : Fév 28, 2017, 6:55 pm

>76 jjmcgaffey: totally agree - If I find myself thinking of the structure or asking myself questions like that, the book either fails me or bores me. If the story strikes me, I read straight through, thinking of nothing but the story itself. Its at the end that I truly think about it, and really want to discuss it with someone immediately (and fortunately I have a sister who reads as much as I do so can get that out of my system). Often thinking about it makes me want to reread it. Wolf Hall is a good example - Ive read it many times over the years and each time I keep finding something new to consider.

>77 AnnieMod:, thats an interesting distiction between east and west, yet in my high school (at least in AP classes) we were asked the same questions you were. I still remember the teachers who didn't so much ask questions, but make us think of something about the plot, charaters or structure to give us a different outlook and usually lead to a really interesting discussion. Which is probably why I like disussing books to this day.

80AnnieMod
Fév 28, 2017, 7:32 pm

>79 cindydavid4:

The discussion (or lack of ) really depended on the teacher back home. For some, you would get an A only if you repeat whatever the authorities on the text had said (there was even a newspaper (weekly through the school year, no issues outside of it) which was publishing answers to the main question. In some cases, all you needed was to find who the teacher's favorite critic is (not that there were too many or it was hard to) and just repeat what they were saying.

And then there were the ones that were trying to switch from the rote memorization to the "think for yourself" model. I even submitted a poem once as an answer to a topic (and got an A). The problem with this was that you could not just learn what the textbook/favorite critic said, you had to actually think (and understand). And rote memorization is easier than thinking (not to mention that you know if you answered correctly or completely). When you thought for yourself? I once spent 10 minutes explaining why I disagree with how my teacher is interpreting a few lines of poetry - I was probably wrong but I had other poetry and prose to support my idea and I made a passable thesis (and got an A...).

Plus a book was covered in less than 2 weeks in general (4-6 periods) - which did not allow too much time in real book discussions - it was a sprint towards the next one and the next thing you need to know. Which made it very hard for me to discuss books for a while -- I was not sure what people meant when they say "discuss books". I highly doubted that they expect an essay on the topic of "The characterization of the mother in the 19th century Bulgarian literature" (that was the final in-classroom 2 hours essay in my senior year).

Incidentally, it was my Phonetics teacher (Peace Corps volunteers were teaching English in most good high schools in Bulgaria at the time - and to differentiate them from a standard English language teacher, they were called Phonetics teachers) that made me talk about the Science fiction and mystery novels that I was reading (not covered in the Literature or English literature classes) and made me realize that you can talk about books without looking for a simile (for example) or without looking for "the lyrical hero". :)

81jjmcgaffey
Fév 28, 2017, 8:50 pm

>80 AnnieMod: I ran into one of the teachers who wanted the proper critics a few times. In college, it made me give up on being an English major - I was taking a Shakespeare class, and wrote a - well, I think it was a pretty good paper on a group of plays (history, I think, or tragedy). Got a C. Then we did the comedies, and I wrote a BS paper with lots of words and no thinking behind them - and got an A, because what I did was largely regurgitate what my teacher had said (I don't care about the comedies, I have a low tolerance for slapstick anyway). So - yeah, not a career path I wanted. I'm too good at having opinions.

82mabith
Mar 1, 2017, 9:49 pm

I don't think we were ever asked what would happen next. The questions were more about the author's message and character's feelings and motivations.

While I try to let a book just 'happen' to me, I can't help but speculate a little. If a character's actions make sense to me from a psychological standpoint I don't think about that unless it's in a book discussion. That's what I really enjoy about my book clubs, there are a lot of aspects you don't think about until you're talking with a group and listening to differing opinions.

I definitely don't spend much time obsessing about what will happen though, and once the book is over I don't go past that. I don't think about what might happen in a sequel or what a character is doing 'now.' When I'm not reading the book I'm probably not thinking about the characters or that world.

83bragan
Mar 3, 2017, 11:31 am

>74 .Monkey.: It's funny, because I do that sort of analysis and guessing about what's going to happen, and all kinds of similar things, ad infinitum with TV shows. But with books, I'm much more likely to just get swept up, go with it, and take it as it comes. (Although mysteries and twisty thrillers that practically dare you to speculate about what might be going on and how things are going to end are, perhaps, something of an exception.) In fact, now that I think about it... For a TV show, when I find myself caught up analyzing why a character did something, it usually means that I find them really complex and fascinating, and am very much engaged with the story. But when I ask myself why a book character did something, I suspect that more often means that the book isn't working very well and the character's motivations seeming insufficiently supported is kicking me out of the story. Which maybe points to some interesting differences between media.

84japaul22
Mar 3, 2017, 3:08 pm

I don't remember talking in my English classes about what would happen next in a book and I almost never do this in my own reading. I stay very "in the moment" when I read, even with mysteries where I suppose you're assumed to be trying to figure it out for yourself.

Maybe this is part of why I have such a bad memory about the plot of the books I read?

I definitely reflect afterwards, sometimes for years!, and I love to discuss books with other readers. I think, though, that I find reading almost a meditative state where I'm just accepting what is happening in the moment and not doing a lot of forward thinking. I'm personally content staying that way.

85Simone2
Mar 4, 2017, 1:42 am

>84 japaul22: I wasn't aware of it, but you describe exactly the way I read.

86SassyLassy
Mar 13, 2017, 9:08 am

.Monkey. has asked me to do questions again and I'm happy to help out. Here goes. If you have any burning questions, please PM me.



QUESTION 6

Every reader experiences them at some time or another: reading slumps. The past few months seem to have been particularly difficult for many. Share your slumps with others in CR and maybe it will help to inspire you or a fellow reader to get reading again.

a) Is there anything in particular you know will start a slump: winter, work, elections, too many similar books read in a row, nothing at all?

b) Do you obsess about your slumps or just ride them out? If you obsess, does that make it worse?

c) How long does it take before you admit you're actually in a slump?

d) Do you take up another activity to replace reading, or is the slump pervasive?

e) Is there a particular genre or title that will take you through and bring you out the other side? Please give your fellow slumpers some tips.

87cindydavid4
Mar 13, 2017, 3:19 pm

Slumps often happen to me after I have read a fantastic, earth shattering book. Nothing but nothing gets me interested for weeks after that. I'll read magazines, short stories, or reread favorites. Travelogues are often the best at getting me back in the swing. I know Im ready to go again when a title is just screaming my name in a bookshop...

They happen too when Im just super busy (like at the very beginning and end of the school year) and can't concentrate on anything. I also found last year that its hard for me when I am convaelesing - I was surprised how little I wanted to read in the hosptial or in rehab when I was in bed and had all the time in the world.

I let it ride out, they usually don't last more than a few weeks fortunately.

88AlisonY
Mar 13, 2017, 3:58 pm

Work stress and volume of work is my main enemy when it comes to reading slumps. When my head is full of work problems I can't concentrate on reading. I keep realising I've "read" a page and not taken a word of it in. I definitely don't obsess about the slumps themselves, save for feeling annoyed that work manages to infiltrate the non-work side of my life in this way.

It's pretty easy to spot my reading slumps - the paltry sum of one book read in the whole of February says it all!

As work stress is my reading killer, I'm realising lately that I need to put my usual type of books to one side to beat my reading slumps. Anything that takes concentration to read, takes a while to get into or is of maudlin subject matter needs to be parked and replaced by light reads that are quick hooks, preferably with some humour thrown in.

Non-work related reading slumps I think I have pretty much licked now - for me the answer is a good healthy dollop of randomness. If I'm bored of my TBR and inexplicably nothing on my heaving wish list is speaking to me, then I take myself off to a new library I've not visited in a while or some second hand bookshops and let something random titles fall into my hands.

89RidgewayGirl
Mar 13, 2017, 7:51 pm

Question 6:

Slumps happen to everyone, don't they? Usually, for me, they're brought on by either hectic life circumstances or stressful events, although similar situations can have me reading more as a coping mechanism.

The answer to avoiding a book slump caused by that empty feeling of having just finished a great book is to always have several books on the go. Then I have another book that I'm invested enough in to give me a way back.

Any other slump I treat by not reading any books at all. People go years without reading a book, and a few days or a week after setting it all aside I start to itch for something substantial to fill my brain. And then I hold out just a bit longer and then I'm reading again. But I don't do well forcing myself forward. Reading should never be a chore, but something we do because we have to.

90japaul22
Mar 13, 2017, 8:27 pm

My slumps are usually that I'm too busy at work to find the time to read, not that I don't feel like reading. Like Kay, I tend to have multiple books going so finishing a great book doesn't usually lead me to a reading slump.

If I'm feeling uninspired by my reading, though, I usually do a reread of a book I love. Typically this means Jane Austen for me.

I also agree with Alison that I've gotten better at knowing what I can handle/am in the mood for and going with that keeps away reading slumps. When life is crazy, I tend to pick up a mystery or historical fiction or reread something rather than trying a hefty classic or depressing modern-day events book.

91wandering_star
Mar 13, 2017, 8:32 pm

Q5

I don't wonder about what will happen next in the story, exactly, but I do often spend the first third of a book working out what the theme(s) of the book is/are. Sometimes there is a nice bit of writing early on which makes me think that there will be a particular theme which doesn't happen, which I find disappointing. Sometimes, I can't work out any theme at all!

Q6

To me a reading slump is when no books work for me. Sometimes this is because I have read several books in a row which I haven't enjoyed. For those, I usually try and go to one of my favourite authors to pull myself out of it. The other kind of slump is when I start several books and none of them really work. This is usually because I am tired, have work stress or some combination of the two. I had one of these on Friday where I read the first few pages of half a dozen books before I found one that gripped me. Fortunately that was an excellent book (Redeployment) which I am now reading with pleasure.

92Nickelini
Mar 13, 2017, 10:31 pm

Q6 Lots of "me too!"'s here

I'm currently in a reading slump, in most part because I've started a new full time job that is a drastic change from what I was doing before and is very intense. Luckily, there is a hard 8:30 AM start and 5 PM stop, so no taking work home. Still, my brain is pretty fried at the end of the day. I find colouring in my adult colouring books more relaxing, if I can get up the energy because I struggle to find energy to read, and I'm having the most success with nothing too dire or complex, and a nice linear timeline. Currently reading Major Pettigrew's Last Stand. The publisher sent me an ARC before it was released and I've always thought it would be twee, but right now it's pretty perfect.

>87 cindydavid4: Slumps often happen to me after I have read a fantastic, earth shattering book. Nothing but nothing gets me interested for weeks after that.

Yep, me too.

>88 AlisonY: As work stress is my reading killer, I'm realising lately that I need to put my usual type of books to one side to beat my reading slumps. Anything that takes concentration to read, takes a while to get into or is of maudlin subject matter needs to be parked and replaced by light reads that are quick hooks, preferably with some humour thrown in.

Yeppity yep yep.

>89 RidgewayGirl: they're brought on by either hectic life circumstances or stressful events, although similar situations can have me reading more as a coping mechanism

Yes, when my mom died 10 years ago, I read huge amounts. I escaped into Salmon Rushdie and Tolstoy.

Slumps -- I've learned to give myself a break. Keep trying new books, switching to non-fiction sometimes helps, that sort of thing.

I do fear though that I may never start reading again! Silly thought, since I've always been a reader, but maybe I didn't always read as much as I thought I did. I own about 900 unread books--I can't drop reading!

93jjmcgaffey
Mar 14, 2017, 1:48 am

I've been in slumps - usually, I notice when I have three or four books going and don't feel like picking up any of them. It's often brought on by a series of uninteresting books, and those are dealt with, usually, by rereading an old favorite. If I'm too busy to read, I usually get twitchy and _have_ to pick up a book - and usually read it right through, when I've been unable to read for a bit. Which is a bad idea if I don't have the time to read...oh well. Usually I notice that I'm in a slump quite late - that is, I feel like I'm reading, and then I realize I've been reading the same book (or books) for weeks without finishing anything much. So I don't really know what triggers it.

Right now I'm in a reading _surge_ - 25 books so far this month (and we're not even half-way through), some of them small but some tomes (average of 281 pages, this month). It's almost as disconcerting as a slump.

94cindydavid4
Modifié : Mar 14, 2017, 2:21 am

>89 RidgewayGirl:, I usually do have several books Im reading at once - but if a book is so good that I lose myself in it, I find it hard reading anything else until Im able to get the great book out of my head!

95lilisin
Mar 14, 2017, 4:10 am

I've been through my longest reading slump in a while, this January I read my first novel after having not read since May of last year. Even now I'm reading again but at a pace of only one book per month.

But I've been reflecting on this and I think that it's not actually a reading slump but more a realization that I'm not as big a reader as I think I am. I used to think I needed a book on me at all times but really I don't. I'm actually the type of person who can just stare outside of a window for hours at a time, doing nothing, thinking nothing; just enjoying the idea of "this is life; I am living in this world".

So I realized I read at two times: the first, when I'm super busy and stressed as I use reading then as either a means of procrastination or escape from reality; the second, when I'm on vacation on a beach in another country (usually) and have nothing else to do but read or swim. I could spend 9 straight hours staring at the waves coming in and out but I do find in this situation that if I do manage to get into a book I can read it straight through.

So in terms of a reading I'm not reading great amounts, but maybe I'm not actually in a slump. I'm living life and enjoying the everyday simplicity of it without feeling the need to enter another world. Or, if I do enter another world, I do it via other activities like tv. Or maybe I work out for a bit and enter the world of a fitness model (model, not trainer, as that is my current body goal/motivation). Or I play violin and enter the world of a worldclass violinist (will never happen but I pretend).

But at some point I will return to my books and I'll be happy 'cause I definitely have an interesting TBR that deserves reading.

96bragan
Modifié : Mar 14, 2017, 8:49 am

I don't seem to get slumps the way some do where I just can't or don't want to read at all. Even at my slumpiest, I always have a book on the go and do keep picking it up. But, very occasionally, I will find that nothing seems to be exactly what I want to read, or that I keep getting distracted and either having great difficulty concentrating on what I'm reading, or wanting to put the book down soon after picking it up, for reasons that have nothing to do with the book itself. I had a period of that recently, and it was annoying, although thankfully I seem to mostly be out of it now.

I think mostly when I'm in that state, I sort of want to go into denial about it. Or I used to. I've recently found myself more willing to acknowledge it when it happens. And having acknowledged it, I've kind of come to the conclusion that the best thing to do with it is probably just to read simple, light, undemanding stuff I'm not too invested in until it goes away. Because it's not fair to really good books, or books that require any amount of concentration, to approach them when I'm in that state, but to not read anything at all, even if it's just a few pages at a time, is clearly unthinkable.

97Cait86
Mar 14, 2017, 9:44 am

Q6:

Like others have said, busy times at work and times of high stress cause my reading to slow to a trickle. At these times I often feel as though my brain can't handle concentrating on a book, and I turn to TV (and usually TV that I've seen before. Many a rewatching of Gilmore Girls and Friends have happened during a reading slump).

I find that the way out of these reading slumps is to do what I like best about books - talk about them. If I can have a great conversation with a friend, my dad, a colleague, or one of my students (I teach high school English) about a fantastic book they are reading, then BAM! I'm ready to pick up a book myself. It's like I need to be reminded again about the joys of reading.

A good break from work helps too. I read nine books in January, mostly while on Christmas holidays, and then only one in February. Things are picking up again this month, because I am currently on March Break. Having hours that stretch on ahead of me with nothing to do but read definitely helps - I actually dislike reading for 30 minutes or an hour at a time, because I feel like I just get into a book and then have to stop, and so reading on work days can actually be a challenge.

98cindydavid4
Mar 14, 2017, 12:31 pm

<96
Because it's not fair to really good books, or books that require any amount of concentration, to approach them when I'm in that state, but to not read anything at all, even if it's just a few pages at a time, is clearly unthinkable


This exactly!!!

99AnnieMod
Mar 14, 2017, 2:10 pm

Q6. Slumps... don't we all have them

a) It can really be anything. Stress at work either drives me into a slump or into a manic reading phase. Same with personal turmoil. More often than not, it just sneaks on me with no reason or explanation

b) I tend to obsess with anything so I am trying not to. If I do, I start asking myself if I really like whatever I am trying to be reading and things go downhill fast. At this point if I am in a slump, I just stop trying and instead watch old shows and work on something book related but not reading - such as big combination projects here in LT

c) Depends on how low I am in my head. If it is at the same time when I am in close to depression state, it may take a week to realize something is wrong. Usually takes a couple of days.

d) I try to do something else - simply because I am really bad at staring at a wall.

e) Yes and no. It needs to play out - no matter what it is, if I am in a slump, I am in a slump. Old-fashioned (or just old) science fiction, crime and mystery stories and novels help me get back to normal faster when I am getting out of one though - and when they start working again, I am out of it and I can start reading whatever I feel like again.

100mabith
Mar 15, 2017, 4:37 pm

Like Bragan, my slumps don't necessarily result in fewer books read, but the type of book may change and I may especially turn to re-reads.

Reading too many mediocre books in a row leads to feeling a bit burnt out, because I do tend to read in pretty high volume. I'm not able to work, so normally I've generally got loads of time for reading.

I don't obsess over it, I just try to choose my next read mindfully. I generally notice I'm in a slump when I have a really hard time choosing my next read. I tend to save newer books by favorite authors or newer series I've loved for these moments when I need a guaranteed good read.

I also read a very wide variety of genre and I keep in mind when I've read a bunch of memoirs close together to switch to a larger history or a science read, which helps me avoid that burnt out feeling.

101Rebeki
Modifié : Mar 17, 2017, 12:48 pm

My reading slumps are caused by too much work or worry/uncertainty about something. In both cases, my brain goes into overdrive and refuses to focus on reading and I have to switch to puzzles, such as Sudoku, to help me unwind.

Sometimes I get bogged down in a book, but I've got better at either pressing on with it or abandoning it for something more appealing, so I don't really experience book-induced slumps.

Last year was the first time political events got in the way of my reading and that bothered me far more than the reader's block I get when overworked. I got through it by resorting to favourite childhood books (Enid Blyton's St Clare's stories, as it happens), but I did resent the fact that I wasn't able to read something better or more interesting.

I know that every slump will come to an end, so I don't worry about it too much, but it's important for my mental wellbeing always to have a book on the go (however slowly) and I've never gone more than a few days without opening one. I try to choose easy, fun reads for times I know I'll be busy, such as hosting the family at Christmas, but if I'm stressed out with work, non-fiction is often better, as there's no need to "connect" with characters or a story.

102SassyLassy
Mar 26, 2017, 4:48 pm

Talk of moving and bookshelves on various threads lately made me think.



image from Montello Rotary Club

QUESTION 7

We all do it sometime -- move.

If you were going too far away to impose on your friends for help

a) Would you take all your books?

b) If not, which are the first ones you would jettison?

c) Which books or collections are non-negotiable keepers?

d) Tell us how you pack your books.

e) Are all your books unpacked from your last move?


103RidgewayGirl
Mar 26, 2017, 6:06 pm

Question 7: Since this applies directly to my own life...

I moved temporarily to Munich (three years) and then back again. I didn't take all of my books, but I did take far more than I strictly needed. I took a few hundred that I wanted to read, focusing on books that were written by Europeans. I took the opportunity to weed out a few dozen, and again upon my return. The rest went to live in storage.

Packing books: this is a topic I have strong opinions on. I had movers pack my books going to Germany and quite a few were damaged. On the return trip, they were packed by me. It's important to stack books in the box and to not lay them out spine up. No matter how tightly you pack them, they will skew to one side, especially if other books are stacked on top. Instead, put in stacks of similarly-sized books. You can place books upright between the stacks, with plenty of packing paper. Do not pack any boxes fuller than you can lift comfortably, even if you have someone moving your things. Place light items (sweaters, blankets, pillows) on top to fill out the box.

As for the books I stored, I took instruction from Lois (avaland) and kept track of which book went in which box. I made note in my LT catalog of where each book was located. It was useful. Eight months after moving, I have two boxes yet unpacked. I will get to them. Sheesh.

104dchaikin
Modifié : Mar 26, 2017, 10:23 pm

Q6 - slumps

>89 RidgewayGirl: I love how this answer sounds. : "...and a few days or a week after setting it all aside I start to itch for something substantial to fill my brain. And then I hold out just a bit longer and then I'm reading again."

This was a great question, too bad I'm answering late. Slumps come in all shapes colors and sizes for me. It's like as soon as I have em figured a new unexpected thing sets me off. Jan 20 - politics - killed my reading.

But, I feel like I have been in a slump more often than not over the last several months in sense of enthusiasm. I respond to slumps by reading dryer or more difficult books. That is to say when the emotional drive, or curiosity drive is missing, I have a habit of just avoiding that whole thing and finding something to occupy my time and, of course, it develops it's own interest to me. But not always enthusiasm.

Recently I read Ferrante and was carried away. That's very unusual. Now I'm reading Pynchon and it feels very much like just something I'm doing, instead of something I'm really driven and excited to do. But, I do that. It's not torture for me, it's an odd comfort zone. But, it's not Ferrante either... Not that every experience should be. Just seems like I'm not driven to have fun reading lately. A very odd thing and, I think, a slump of sorts.

105cindydavid4
Modifié : Mar 27, 2017, 2:16 am

>102 SassyLassy: Great timely topic given that my DH and I decided that we needed to update our wills (I can't believe how old they are!). So a topic for another time might be - what books would you spefically give to who in your will

As for the current topic - I started out with three boxes of books when I moved to college (my mom held most of mine and gave away some that Im still miffed abut.) A few years later needed my first truck to get my books to my non college apt. 25 years later my DH and I merged libraries when we moved to our first apt.

When my DH and I merged, we tossed anything that was a copy (best condition stayed) books horribly out of date with no other redeeming value (what in the hell do you all do with your college text books), books we couldn't remember reading, couldn't remember why we bought it, couldn't think of a reason to keep them, books I tried several times to read and had to just let. them. go. Every year or so its still a daunting task, with pretty much the same qualifications. And we still have an amazing number of books

But heres the thing - we like having books in our house, like being surrounded by them. There are just some books that no matter how dated or obsolete, or whatever, they would stay. These.Books were special gifts, or given by a special person or about a particular time in our lives, or ones that helped us get through a particular time, ones where we knew exactly where we were and who we were with when we read them, books read so often you could recite them aka Fahrenheit 451, books because why not?

40 years later - the very thought of moving is making me think arson. No. Its all good. But if we had to....

First all my sci fi fantasy paperbacks Ive had since HS that I refused t part with, and his historical fictin sci fi books same, would go to our local used bookstore. I suspect they wont take many, but some, with trade credit, works for us.

The ones left over I'd either take to Goodwill, or to a homeless shelter.

I have a collection of illustrated children books from 1880-1929. Unless I have a better copy, they all stay. They will be packed archive quality, permanent boxes that you get from museum shops. They cost but they are worth it if your books are woth it.

For the rest, I go to the liquor stores and pick up as many of their empty boxes as I can (They have to be strong to handle all that glass, and they are small enough to handle), Pack them with spines up, try to pack by size (paperbacks together for sure).

As to your last question, books are usually the first thing we unpack!

And what does it say about me that I had to edit this post several times ?

106thorold
Mar 27, 2017, 8:06 am

Q6 - Slumps: I notice that I read about three times as many books in Q1 2016 as in Q1 2017, so, even taking into account the effect of a couple of very long books and what turned itself into something very like a course module on Milton, there obviously was something going on. Being extra-busy at work and - especially - doing a lot of business travel usually sends my book-count up, but I've been busy with some big decisions, and that probably added a bit of stress. Not to mention politics...

Q7 - Moving: I've moved twice in the last thirty years, and each time I took the easy way out and paid someone else to do the packing (actually, my employer paid for the first one). That worked out very well, they used boxes designed for books, and nothing got damaged. Unpacking took a few weeks, each time I had to buy a few new shelf units, so there's obviously some sort of expansion going on when you pack books...

Like >105 cindydavid4: I've got a lot of unnecessary junk on my shelves. Decrepit paperbacks of crime novels I'm never likely to re-read, out of date guidebooks to countries that don't exist any more, college textbooks. Last time I moved I found that most of one box was books I'd already sorted out as "duplicates, for disposal" on first catalogueing my collection in LT. I've given those away in the meantime. At least, I think I have! As long as there's no great imperative to do so, I'm not in a hurry to clear out the junk, but one day I will have to, unless I want to leave it to the ruthless hands of someone else when I'm not around to object any more.

I wouldn't like to say that anything is absolutely non-negotiable. I don't see myself ending up like the hero of Auto-da-fé and destroying my own life to protect the books. Given the chance, what I would try to save would be copies with long personal associations - my grandmother's Sunday-school prizes, my great-great-aunt's heavily annotated Bible and Walter Scott, special presents, my old Fowler and the Q edition of the Oxford book of English verse. Everything else is ultimately replaceable.

107mabith
Mar 27, 2017, 9:02 am

I'm in the process of moving now. If I were going too far away for friends/family help I'd have to hire someone anyway. I can do the packing if I have enough time to do it slowly, but my disability prevents me from doing the lifting and carrying of boxes. One way or another I would take all my books.

If I absolutely had to get rid of some I could do a severe pruning but it would be hard. I'm relatively careful about what books I add to my collection and I don't mind getting rid of stuff I know I'll never read again.

My collection of children's books are non-negotiable. Most are the copies I had as a kid, or at least new copies of the books I loved. Also my Carl Barks and Don Rosa Donald Duck and Scrooge McDuck comics, and my volumes of Carl Sandburg poetry.

My books are the first thing that get packed and the first that get unpacked, partly because they're the easiest thing other than clothes. Also because then I can re-use the boxes for other stuff. I try to mostly keep my shelves together, but I pack by size for maximum efficiency (a friend strictly packs shelf one, book case one, etc.. and uses clothes to fill in the spaces).

Even though my first night in my new place will be tonight all my books are already unpacked and arranged. I do admit that during this process I slightly regretted owning so many books. I'm not a "keep every book that comes near" person though, and I don't own too many unread books, so it could be much much worse.

108RidgewayGirl
Mar 27, 2017, 9:26 am

>106 thorold: . . .out of date guidebooks to countries that don't exist any more. . .

I don't think I'd be able to get rid of those. I have an enormous world atlas once owned by my in-laws from 1963 and it's fascinating to see how the world map has changed.

109thorold
Mar 27, 2017, 3:18 pm

>108 RidgewayGirl: The most detailed atlas I have shows Catalonia as an autonomous state and Danzig as a Free City, so it must have been published in the thirties.

110Trifolia
Mar 27, 2017, 3:25 pm

Q6 - Slump
a) I discovered that I get into a reading-slump when I'm stressed and when I take on reading-challenges. Time and time again, I'm challenged to join a challenge but they always seem to instigate stress and then a slump.
b) I'm not obsessed about it anymore. I just wait till the stress-levels are down to normal because I know this too shall pass.
c) I start recognizing the symptoms pretty quickly nowadays, but I wish I were more adamant (or less forgetful) to not challenge myself anymore.
d) I don't do anything much to replace it except maybe perusing my library.
e) After a few days, I often read an easy book (usually a detective, a mystery or a police-novel) until I feel ready for the more challenging books. And then it starts all over again.

Q7 - move
Apart from having my house repainted, I've been fortunate not having had to move my books for years now. I have a substantial library but as of late I've been thinking of redecorating and buying new furniture which might imply getting rid of many books I do not intend to read anymore or again and to which I do not have an emotional attachment. This idea was confirmed when I read a quote that said "I may love books but I do not have to pay their rent...". So if and when I move or redecorate, I'll probably downsize to about 10 to 20 % of my current library (the emotional part) and be perfectly happy with the rest of my books being available as an e-book.

111ursula
Modifié : Mar 27, 2017, 6:31 pm

In the past, I have moved all my books. I used to work in a bookstore, part of the time as inventory manager, so packing and lifting the boxes was no problem. :)

But starting in about 2012, I just got rid of most of my books. Which was fortunate since we started doing some international moves that required our entire lives to fit into suitcases. I brought about 5-6 books on each of those moves (different ones, just things I wanted to read or had bought in the country I was leaving). Since being back in the US these last 6 months, I've acquired a few but I would be surprised if they are amount to more than one (small) box. I like that, and hope to continue to keep things to about that level. One day when I'm reasonably sure I won't be moving again for at least a while, I'd like to acquire nice editions of some books I love, and then maybe I'll go up to 2 boxes. ;) So hopefully moving will always be easy, at least when it comes to books.

112ELiz_M
Mar 27, 2017, 3:50 pm

Q7

I am firmly in the "books do furnish a room" camp. 15 months ago I moved from a two-floor, one bedroom apartment to a studio that is about the size of my former living room. I downsized from >1200 books to about 900 books. And now the bookcases act as a room divider, hiding the bed (mostly) from view of the couch and front door. These days my book budget is smaller and instead of buying 6-10 books a month at my favorite used bookstore, half of it goes to the new indie bookstore that opened in November to purchase one pretty edition that replaces a cheap student-era paperback.

113cindydavid4
Mar 28, 2017, 2:41 am

>106 thorold: out of date guidebooks to countries that don't exist any more. .

Had to laugh at this, as I still have a globe from childhood with all the pre independence names of African countries.

I still have many of the eyewitness guide books just coz they are so pretty. Actually I don't have as many guide books as I do travel narrative. In fact probably half of my non fiction collection is that genre (followed closely by Medieval history) Some of my recent favorites have been of travelers pre WWII who went through 'exotic' sounding places, before they were cool I will repeat read those narratives and go travel all over again. So, no - they stay

114jjmcgaffey
Mar 28, 2017, 5:28 am

Moving -

I grew up moving every 3 years or so...but every move we had people do it (government allowances do it that way). Aside from going to college (OK, and the time we were evacuated during a revolution), I've always taken all my books along - and continued to do so, more or less, when I started moving on my own. I carefully packed up all my books (and a good many other things) and put them into storage, then had them delivered once I was settled.

However, I've now been in one place for 12 years (and one month), and my book collection has grown out of control. I'm making a serious effort this year to read BOMBs - Books Off My Bookshelf, the books I've bought but never read. A vast number of them are not actually on shelves - 3 years ago I pulled all the books I didn't know that I wanted to keep off the shelves and boxed them. It was supposed to make it easier to read them and put the keepers back on the shelves. Didn't work that way - the boxes got largely ignored, more books got added to them, and I mostly read stuff off my shelves (which were, after all, all the books I knew I liked). So this year I'm making a push to clean up. I've also found that if I have a e-version of a book I have in paper, I'm more likely to read the ebook - for one thing, it's easier to locate. So for some (not all) of my keeper books, I'm settling for keeping the e-version and discarding my paper copy. There are some I keep the paper just because I like it, and some I keep the paper because that particular copy is important (the Mother Goose my grandmother gave me). And some I keep because there isn't an e-version or likely ever to be one.

Which adds up to - if I can keep this up, I might be willing to move in two or three years. Not before. Because I'd have to discard books I haven't read, and I'm not willing to do that...nor to pay for storage and shipping of the many many boxes of books I'd have.

I use bankers' boxes for books, usually - sturdy, good-sized for paperbacks (and hardbacks are always a pain, there's too many possible sizes), and with handles on the sides. And not too large, so they're still carryable when packed. There are moving boxes designed for books, but flaps are more of a pain than the separate lids of banker boxes (though easier to secure, admittedly), and they don't have handles/hand-holes. I generally pack paperbacks spine-up, and hardbacks/TPBs standing upright. I hate packing - or more specifically, I hate _un_packing books stacked flat into boxes - it's hard to figure out what's in the box, and they seldom fit well anyway.

I unpacked all my book boxes when I moved in here pretty early - as someone said above, books are among the easiest things to unpack, particularly if you've cataloged them well in the packing. But then I started storing books in boxes...does that count? And they're not even well-cataloged as being in the boxes, let alone which books are in which box. (see: easier to locate the e-version...).

115dchaikin
Mar 28, 2017, 5:18 pm

Q7

I have had trouble figuring out how to answer. Basically I don't know. There was a time when every single book was precious and when we moved ten years ago they were all catalogued (pre-LT.. and actually more than ten years ago), carefully packed and moved, then carefully unpacked and reshelved

But they seem more replacable now - outside the special copies. I wouldn't jettison any for a move unless I had to. But if I had to, I think I could be pretty ruthless. If it doesn't hold strong appeal, then I could discard painlessly. A lot of unread literary fiction and nonfiction and bulky editions of classics would be high on the list.

116bragan
Mar 28, 2017, 6:16 pm

I like to say that I can never, ever move again, because I now have far too many books to make moving them practical. I've long been kind of a roach motel for books, really. They come in, but they don't go out, even if I'm dead certain I'm never going to re-read them. 5,000 books in, I am finally starting to maybe entertain the possibility of the idea that some day I might actually have consider to culling them, for space reasons or if I do ever have to move. But I don't like to think about it.

As for packing books... The last time I moved was 12 years ago. I had a lot fewer books then, but still entirely too many. I packed them in boxes labeled things like "Fiction: Adams - Asimov." Or, in the case of paperbacks, into milk crates. One milk crate full of paperbacks is, I have empirically determined, about the limit of what I can lift without straining too much. And they were one of the first things I unpacked at the new house, once I'd gotten the shelves set up. I mean, one must have one's priorities.

117japaul22
Mar 28, 2017, 8:11 pm

I cull my shelves pretty often so I think I'd bring just about all of my books. I think I'm different from many of you in that a fairly small percentage of my books are TBR. I mainly keep books I love and want to reread some day and often buy these in nice editions - anything from pretty paperbacks to brand new Folio Society books. So these will stay with me for the forseeable future. Although, we also don't plan to move for 15-20 years at the earliest. So I probably won't need to make the tough choices!

118tonikat
Modifié : Mar 29, 2017, 3:27 pm

catching up a bit...welcome back Sassy.

I'm going to answer before reading everyone else's points (partly as there are so many other posts and partly just to clarify me to me).

Q6 Slumps - if you've followed my thread you'll see i've had one recently. It has lots of aspects - external circumstances and pressures, but internal too. I've found finishing a very good book can lead to one, but also maybe finishing something important in life, slump may be part of re-tasking.

Part of me thinks they may be an aspect of having reached too many answers and somehow then not looking at things in an open enough way to let them in. But that may also be a consequence of other things too - sometimes maybe a facet of knowing I have something else I must address, or should.

Also if a good reading experience can lead to one then also a bad one may. I have had slumps after reading some bestsellers.

Again on the openness issue maybe it can also be influenced by how in touch with myself I am - am I drifting, am I really engaging with what most interests me or what I need, am I disheartened somehow, am I overwhelmed by how much I'd like to know and yet don't and don't know where to start...and why am I not letting myself reread one of the things I treasure. A sense for me that I'm not picturing the things I'm thinking of reading as somehow being what I want or need.

I just don't know, there can be other things to it too. No fixed idea of what to do in response -- nowadays not fret on it. Maybe Journal or write. I made my post about my slump by just letting myself do it and was really glad I reached the idea of fallowness and meadows.

I think I've touched over the years on a kind of anxiety I can feel about what I must read and feeling I am failing at that and not reading enough and not having read all the things I'd like to have (and media and reading groups can foster this). That now makes me wonder if a slump can be a response to driving myself that way, taking it all too seriously(?).
...and I am hoping my way forward is gentleness, flow with reading as part of my life, let myself read what I fancy not what I've decided I should of I feel this way.

I remember Wittgenstein didn't read a huge spread but focussed on things he got a lot from, was that in Ray Monk's biography or something else about him, Introducing Wittgenstein? -- but still, it'd be nice to have read a lot more than I've managed, which makes me sad, frustrated and a bit cross with myself, given how much I enjoy it. But happiness may really lie in really knowing the flora and fauna, the meadows close to me and I'm lucky to stumble into, but cannot be the whole horizon.

Q7 Moving - very much on my mind after not having to do so for a very long time. These questions and the questions of space and shelving have been alarmingly close to the top of my priorities in the whole process. A process that shocked me into realising how attached now to my collection I am and how tied to it I am, bit like a dog, even has to be fed in some ways (? a stretch?), I am definitely walking it in a way, taking books down and reading/caring for them. Then I looked into storage costs when I started getting radical with what I may do -- omg.

I'm jettisoning very few (I hope), but then I am not moving a world away. I am jettisoning some - I suppose some of those are those that I reacted to others' enthusiasm about or felt I should read, but were less those I was sort of organically feeling a wish to...a sort of feeling in the stomach that this is my path, 'my bliss'.

Given that and thinking about future shelf space I have thought of getting rid of quite a lot of novels, mainly quite contemporary ones...but I shall be cautious about that. Would not really consider it of poetry. Do consider getting rid of books about old subjects studied that are not lighting my fire. I'm investigating packing and knowing me it may take a long time to unpack all - this will depend on shelving solutions -- but on the other hand it is part of visualising where I hope to go that the books are sorted.

Boxes or crates are a problem I have to solve.

edit - and thx .Monkey for prior questions. Now caught up on everyone else - feel I am in a bit of a support group. So many similar reactions. Very glad 'm taking the course I am and not following Auto-da-fe plot types. That rent quote gets my attention. They will be packed with great care - cataloguing crates may be nice but may take too much work. And as to Q6, stress yes, can lead to slumps and bursts.

119Oandthegang
Mar 29, 2017, 8:04 pm

Q7

I'm doing this without reading anyone else's responses first so I don't get sidetracked or revise my answer.

a) Would I take all my books?

That would depend on whether I was staying in the country. If I were staying in the country I would probably tell myself that I would cull, then not get round to culling, move all the books intending to cull on arrival, and then not get round to culling.

If I were leaving the country, particularly if it were a long distance such as crossing the Atlantic, I would cull. I like to imagine I would get down to a capsule library. Thinking about it, moving expenses would probably force that on me.

b) Which are the first ones I would jettison?

I can think right off of a shelf which is almost entirely occupied by large hardbacks which I have not read and the urge to read them has died. Every time I look at that shelf I think I must ditch them. They include Underworld (far too big), a whole slew of Margaret Atwood novels (I liked her early stuff and Wilderness Tips but lost interest somewhere around The Blind Assassin, Alias Grace etc stage), Mason & Dixon (also far too big), and there are a couple of books of Mavis Gallant short stories of which I had high hopes but I've never got round to reading. I ought to get rid of all cookbooks. And this time yes I would once again ditch the Fred Vargases. I keep thinking it must be possible to cull my big glossy books which weigh so much, but whenever I manage to lever them off the lower shelves I end up spending hours looking through them. I would like to have a rule that any book that I've owned more than X years without reading should go, but when I picked Gore Vidal's Armageddon? off the shelf the other day I was appalled to discover I'd had it since 1990 without reading it, despite having gone to hear him reading from it, and tediously arrogant as he was there is still interesting stuff in there, so back on the shelf it went. There are the other books I would keep because I promise myself I will get round to reading - the James Lees-Milne diaries, the daunting Jonathan Sumption history of the Hundred Years War. There's also the issue of library as autobiography. I have loads of books which I have either not read or which I read and enjoyed many years ago but can't imagine ever reading again (in the latter category would be White Noise, The Names, and Massacre at Montségur), but when I look at them they are like a snapshot of my past and I therefore find them hard to ditch.

c) Which books or collections are non-negotiable keepers?

I would start off with my most important childhood books (part of library as biography I guess):

The Pooh books (Shepherd illustrated of course)
The Narnia books
Alice In Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass

Jane Austin in the lovely Collectors Library editions with the Hugh Thompson illustrations
All of the Dorothy Sayers Lord Peter Wimsey books
A selection of Wodehouse, to include all of the Blandings novels, the Psmith novels, and any stories about Uncle Fred, of Uncle Fred Flits By fame.

If this were Desert Island Discs I'd want to add something a bit chunkier in there, but those are the top books that come to mind. Of course in reality there are lots of books which I would never surrender from my collection.

(Desert Island Discs, for those not familiar with it, is an institution which has been going since 1942 on BBC Radio. Someone is interviewed about their life and within the interview they must select eight records which they would take to a desert island, and must explain why they have selected those records. At the end of the programme they must choose one record to save if all the others were washed away. They are also allowed one book and one luxury.)

d) How do I pack my books?

I try as far as possible to pack books of similar size together. Mostly I put them on their backs, but if there are lots of paperbacks and the shape works better I might put them on edge.

e) Are all my books unpacked from my last move?

No.

120Oandthegang
Mar 29, 2017, 8:40 pm

>106 thorold: Out of date guidebooks are useful. I have a school atlas from the 1930s and found it quite interesting in that it showed lots of areas and countries which had been absorbed and have recently begun reappearing, so it helped with history and with modern politics. Also useful for places changing their names. When she was young my grandmother taught on the European mainland for a while, but I couldn't find the city until I found an old map and was then able to work forward to what the new name of the place is. The country boundaries had changed since then so I was doubly handicapped, looking for an out of date place name in the wrong country.

People are now writing books about countries that have disappeared.

121SassyLassy
Modifié : Avr 7, 2017, 3:24 pm

Spending the past couple of weeks doing my yearly book organization made me think of this.



Image from The Numismatic Bibliomania Society

QUESTION 8

There is a difference between outright rejection and casual abandonment. Rejection is a conscious act: "I'm not reading any more of this book."
Abandonment happens in more insidious ways. The book is set aside in an out of the way room, an exciting new book drops into your hands, work intervenes and reading is temporarily on hold. There are oh so many scenarios. Then one day the abandoned book pops up again and something has to be done.

a) Do you pick up and start reading again?

b) Do you shelve the book saying to yourself you will get back to it?

c) Do you have a special area for les abandonés?

d) Do you decide to dispose of it since it didn't hold your interest the first/ second/ third time through?

e) Which titles have you abandoned? Let your fellow readers know a couple of lesser known titles and some of the big ones.

f) Do you feel guilty about it?


You are not alone. From Mother Jones, here is a list of the top five abandoned books:



122tonikat
Avr 7, 2017, 4:45 am

I abandoned Lord of the Rings when I reached my limit with fantasy a god way through - if I ever thought of picking it up again it went with the idea I'd have to start again and had no wish to do that...though I'm not un-fond of some parts. I abandoned Atlas Shrugged before I ever started it, perhaps I should find out for myself.

I always tried to finish (almost) everything - but these days I abandon a lot - all over my shelves, sorted on here these days as my 'part read' collection (undoubtedly I've missed many). Some of these I am frustrated wth myself about or circumstances, some not so much. In a way I'm seeing it as quite healthy as I've been looking for what I need. The purist in me says never just walk away as doing so means I may not have learned whatever was to be learned of any sticking point (LOTR perhaps). Lots of poetry part read, of course.

When the matter has gone a long time I have a feeling I may need to restart the whole book - or else go back quite some way. It comes with a feeling I have lost the flow I had in it - some of that may also be feeling that whatever stopped me may not be what I find when I go back and that I may not be able to resolve that, this may be just as much to do with where I was in life as the text perhaps, so these unfinished books may also mark other things. Sometimes perhaps I may be afraid to face certain things, or if not afraid then something enormous and beyond me in how they have come to seem - though sometimes I have deliberately faced such concern and completed something from decades ago and that has always felt good.

I am trying to complete some more of these books. I have a bit of a sense of being dilettante or awareness I may sound fickle in how much I have come to switch between books, even good ones. Part of it may be a function of working life interrupting but also at a time where I've been discovering lots in reading and writing. I do think it's been very good for me to have broadened what I have tried for all that.

123cindydavid4
Avr 7, 2017, 9:41 am

Since I read several books at once,I usually have such a book easily at hand. I'll pick it up and continue reading, deciding later if I still want to. Some go on my to be read shelf, others just land where I ws reading, to be picked up later.

I have never felt the need to finish every book I started - I'd never have read as much as I have! At my age, Im a lot less patient than I used to be. In the past I'd give books 50 pages or so, now, they need to catch me almost from the begining. These books usually go on my to be read shelves, for another chance. Some stay there for a year or so till I finally put it in the giveaway pile and I rarely feel guilty about it. Others end up appealing to me down the road. I tried Cloud Atlas three times before it finally stuck; its now on my list of top reads for me, tho that doesn't happen as much as it used to.

There are times I think I am missing out on something, esp if its a read that many others have liked. But I don't let it bother me too much. I just find something else to enjoy.

124jjmcgaffey
Avr 7, 2017, 9:21 pm

Depends on the book. Books do fall by the wayside (for many of the reasons you mention above); some of them I can pick up a month or six months later and continue reading from where I left off (Once Broken Faith, recently). Some I just start over - and some of those I read all the way through, and some I stall in much the same spot. I don't reshelve the book unless I'm pretty sure that a) I still want to read it and b) I'll have to start over...and don't want to now (now being when I pick it up/find it again). They usually get put down near my reading areas - I'm reading them, after all. And then they get shuffled into a slightly more distant area, and tucked out of the way, and...I find clumps of abandoned books in the oddest places, sometimes. There are some I'm aware of, at the moment, and (I'm pretty sure) some I've forgotten about - or books I remember but don't know where they are at the moment (which is another way of delaying continuing). I do try to read all of a book, but recently (very recently, in the last year or so) I've been giving myself permission to say "No. Not reading this one." I do usually go look at the last page/chapter/scene/whatever, and a few times it's intrigued me enough to make me chug through the rest of the book to find out how they got to there...but mostly not. I'm disposing of a lot of books now, and the Nope ones are definitely in there. So are ones I've read but have no particular interest in rereading (I reread a lot, but there are some) and quite a few that I've read and enjoyed, but I have the e-version (or the library does) if I feel like rereading.

One book I'm about to abandon is The Seer by Sonia Lyris - it was much talked up when it came out early last year, but I got less than half-way through and haven't been able to convince myself I want to read any more, it's too depressing. One I'm not reading but don't intend to abandon is Sorcerer to the Crown - I do want to pick that one up. And one I did abandon, despite getting it from NetGalley (like Early Reviewers), was The House of Shattered Wings - ghahh, depressing! That's one of the major reasons I'll stop reading and never restart. Another one is if the writing is bad - unconvincing, or the author screws up major continuity, or the dialog is utterly wooden, or ditto descriptions...

I can't think of any classics I've abandoned - there's a good many I've never read and never intend to, but that's different. I've read, re-read, and greatly enjoyed The Lord of the Rings, read and enjoyed Catch-22, intend to read Moby-Dick some day, and have zero interest in either Ulysses or Atlas Shrugged.

And no, I don't feel the least bit guilty about it. Well, a little bit guilty about ER/Netgalley books - I got them early but never managed to read them (though I do review a book if I abandon it - explain why). But if a book doesn't work for me, it doesn't, and there's no reason to force myself to drag through all of it.

125Nickelini
Avr 8, 2017, 3:06 am

Q8

I really like this question.

First, I have to say that I got into this weird thing in the 1990s where I'd read 3/4 of a book and then lose interest and think "yeah, I get the idea and that's enough." Granted, I read a lot of non-fiction, but I did this with novels too. I still find myself getting bored 3/4 through books.

a) Do you pick up and start reading again?

Sure. Right book, right time. Especially if I've paid for a book, I do try to give it every chance. My best example of success here is The Hiding Place by Trezza Azzopardi. It was nominated for awards (Booker maybe?, back when that meant more) and so many people loved it, but I tried it twice and couldn't get past page 3. Gave it to my sister in law and said I didn't want it back. She raved about it . I tried it one more time, and it was a 5 star read. So if there is a reason to think it might be really good, I do try it in different times and moods.

b) Do you shelve the book saying to yourself you will get back to it?

Depends. Usually I do try again, so yes. But if it's clearly a "I will never spend time on this" then I get rid of it and the book is immediately forgotten. Unless it's the Celestine Prophesy, which I tore into pieces and threw in the recycling bin. I remember that.

c) Do you have a special area for les abandonés?

No, my books are sorted differently, so it would return to it's usual spot. However, if I think I really am never going to read it or like it, but it still might maybe have a chance, I will put it in the basement bookshelves.

d) Do you decide to dispose of it since it didn't hold your interest the first/ second/ third time through?

Depends how motivated I am to read it. Low motivation -- gone without a thought. Others I will try over and over again. I do try to give extra chances to classics, award winners, or books liked by people with discerning taste. (My choice on who has discerning taste)

e) Which titles have you abandoned? Let your fellow readers know a couple of lesser known titles and some of the big ones. --
f) Do you feel guilty about it?


Mostly they are forgotten, especially the lesser known ones. However, I am playing the 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die list game, and I really try with those. I've made it through some that were pretty crappy, so when I can't do others that are better loved, I second guess myself. I do feel guilty about abandoning books off this list, but since I have no plans to read even half the list, who really cares? I just don't know how to count them. Obviously haven't read them, so shouldn't count, but not counting them leaves them in a weird category.

I like the picture with the question.

1. Catch 22. This is still in my shelves. I abandoned it in the 1980s, and my bookmark is still in the spot. My husband tried to read it about 10 years ago, so his bookmark is in his spot. My sister in law (the one with the mostly good taste) loved it, and I haven't given up yet, but I have to be in the right mood. This book is dropping down my list of interests (War, uber-male, American, also my copy is old and yellow . . . the merits of this highly acclaimed novel may not be able to overcome these barriers).

2. Lord of the Rings. Seen the movies many times. Can I count that? Read the first book, and liked it, but it was uber-male and I haven't been interested to move along with the series. My daughters loved them, and the uber-maleness wouldn't have bothered me at their age either, but I find now that with books or movies, if it's just about a bunch of guys, they better be doing something really interesting or entertaining (intellectual or funny is better than action) or I am just. so. bored.

3. Moby Dick -- I'm not really into long books, but I might read this one day when I've read a lot of other stuff. Ulysses and Ayn Rand don't interest me at all.

As for books I've abandoned, I guess the only ones I feel a twinge of guilt are the well-loved classics:

Grapes of Wrath -- I've loved the other Steinbeck that I've read, but I'm just not that interested in this story at this time in my life, and I couldn't handle the dialogue. The prose was lovely, but it was the wrong book at the wrong time. Maybe one day I'll pick this up, but I can't see it happening.

Cry the Beloved Country -- what a slog. I made it to page 124 or something, but just couldn't go on. I saw a critical note that the author went for the style of the King James Bible, which explained why it didn't work for me. Back in my religious days, I was always an NIV girl. Anyway, I know this book is "important" and everyone loves it so much, but it just screamed at me and I hated everything about it.

I'm also annoyed that I really tried the best seller All the Light We Cannot See twice, and made it to page 350 or something but couldn't do another 150 or so. I really love a good 200 page novel, so I already read an extra 150 pages and couldn't stand it, but couldn't count it as read either. I find current day longer books bloated (the cutback of editors in the publishing industry shows here) so if a book published in the last 10 - 20 years is over 300 pages, I have to be super motivated to even consider reading it.

126mabith
Avr 8, 2017, 10:18 pm

I tend to finish what I start unless I really hate it. I'm trying to get better about dropping books I don't enjoy, since getting to the end and feeling like I've wasted my time isn't fun.

As for abandoned books, it's also generally because I dislike it, or I'm having some specific extra-awful pain flare that makes it hard to read in print (I have to mostly do audio). I will doggedly keep a print book next to my bed for a year rather than putting a book I've started back on the shelf.

Again, if I truly give up on a book it's generally because I really dislike it, and I don't feel bad about saving myself annoyance and reading something I'll like instead.

Recently I've abandoned Walden (coming from such a privileged place and the "well the poor people who have to live like this don't truly understand it like *I* do), and Up From Slavery (in the current climate the accommodationist tone was too much for me to take, regardless of whether it truly represents Washington's thoughts and actions). I can't see myself going back to either any time in the next decade.

127ipsoivan
Avr 9, 2017, 9:01 am

Sometime in the last few years, I began feeling oppressed by the number of books I have and I've had various schemes to get through my TBRs, whittle down my shelves, and stem the flow in. Giving myself permission to not finish something that doesn't grab me is one such scheme. I'm not quite at the Pearl Rule of ruthlessness, but if I'm struggling at any point, I'll just heave the book into a box that awaits donation. This is even easier if I know I can get the book from the library if I get the urge to try again. I will also put things in the box that I have read but know I will never read again.

I've just taken a peak into the box:
Midnight in Sicily
The Porcupine
a bunch of Saul Bellow

Like Nickelini, I find myself really uninterested in what I call "guy books" like Catch-22 and Bellow, the sort of alpha male thing. You'd think that Moby Dick would fall into this category, but it didn't feel that way (maybe the lack of laddish wisecracking); I read it, loved it, and it stays on the shelf. Ulysses recently got laid aside as requiring too much effort that I just can't give it at this stage in my life, but I know I'm going to pick it up again, so it stays. It helps that I found a beautiful old copy of it that is just lovely to hold.

128dchaikin
Modifié : Avr 9, 2017, 11:18 am

Q8

There is a wonderful, freeing feeling in abandoning a bad book. But it feels defeating to not be able to finish a good book. And since this good/bad thing is all subjective, this can all get very uncertain to me. I say this as I'm dragging through Mason & Dixon, on week 6. Is it a good book? Should I keep pushing through? Will I feel bad if I don't? I don't know.

a) Do you pick up and start reading again?

I tend to restart. And, I sometimes start books several times before they click. But, yes, I will pick it up again.

b) Do you shelve the book saying to yourself you will get back to it?

Of course. Paradise Lost has been there 7 years now. I still look forward to getting back to it.

c) Do you have a special area for les abandonés?

Out of the house?

d) Do you decide to dispose of it since it didn't hold your interest the first/ second/ third time through?

If it's in the "bad" category, yes.

e) Which titles have you abandoned? Let your fellow readers know a couple of lesser known titles and some of the big ones.

Apologies up front to those who like these. It felt really really nice to abandon All the Light We Cannot See (I did not see the light?) and The Revenant. Did NOT like them.

On the other hand Paradise Lost and Remembrance of Lost Time still hold my interest. I plan to get back to both. They weren't abandoned, just set aside for a long time.

f) Do you feel guilty about it?

No.

129japaul22
Avr 9, 2017, 10:59 am

I don't abandon books often, but I also can't say I intend to go back to many I've abandoned. Since I have several books on the go at once, there are some that I'll sort of set aside in favor of something that's working better at the moment, but I don't consider that abandoning, just waiting for the right moment.

I have two different categories of books I'm likely to abandon. One seems to be Early Reviewer books that I realize I shouldn't have requested. Usually I can legitimately say these are poorly written and would not have been something that I would have picked up with more information and would not recommend to anyone.

The other category usually comes from books I push myself out of my comfort zone to read because they are considered "classic". Many of these are from the 1001 books to read before you die list. Ones I can remember off the top of my head were Mysteries of Udolpho - way too long for a silly story and lots of bad poetry/songs, Walden (right there with you mabith!!), and Miss Lonelyhearts which was way to denigrating to women for me to stomach it. These I read enough of to get the idea and realize I did not need to spend my reading time on them.

I'm better and better at picking books that work for me so I find that I have fewer abandoned books lately. I also realize, though, that sometimes I want to push myself out of my comfort zone and when I do I give myself permission to abandon the book if I give it a good try. Sometimes I'm surprised to love something I didn't think I would, so I don't want to completely lose those reading opportunities.

130lilisin
Modifié : Avr 10, 2017, 3:50 am

I am very selective about what I read often waiting a year before finally deciding to read a book. By then I've usually read the synopsis several times, have seen more articles singing its praise or it suddenly fits into my mood. So there really is no reason for me to abandon any books and I don't. ... or at least I didn't use to way back in the day.

However, over the years as my reading as dwindled from (an already low) 25 books a year to 12 books a year to 6 books a year to 1 book a year, I find that I'm having more trouble finishing a book that I'm having abandoning books. But I'm not really abandoning books, just getting halfway and then move on to something else, either another book or a movie or a social event.

I'm currently in the middle of Taken Captive which I was incredibly engrossed in. Also am in the middle of , a great Japanese book that I'm also very interested in. But while I'm enthralled and want to read more I just can't seem to push on. I'm also in the middle of a ton of comics, both individual volumes, and entire series. One series just ended and I'm only two away from the end but I have no idea when I'll ever finish it.

I just seem to have no problem not finishing the book.

I'll let you know that I am still only 60 pages away from the end of Musashi, a 1000 page tome that enthralled me and yet never read the final 60 pages. Isn't that ridiculous? It's kind of ridiculous.

I do plan on finishing these books. I mean, they are very very good. I just don't know why I can't seem to finish anything. It's the strangest thing.

Books with incomplete status:
Perez-Reverte Queen of the South - abandoned halfway; I was relatively enjoying this but won't pick it back up
Stendhal Red and Black - abandoned halfway; wasn't enjoying it at all: won't picked it up
Kawakami Hiromi センセイの鞄 - put it down halfway; plan on finishing this one eventually
Kenzaburo Oe A Quiet Life - put down 'cause wasn't in the mood; will come back to it later and start over
Eiji Yoshikawa Musashii - will definitely read those 60 pages eventually.... definitely... maybe.
Shizuko Natsuki Hara-Kiri, mon amour - read a little over half; was enjoying this little 200 page mystery so plan on finishing it someday
Otsuichi 暗いところで待ち合わせ - read about 30 pages; really need to read this one
Steinbeck The Grapes of Wrath - dropped halfway when my mood changed; want to finish it though since I was really enjoying it
Joseph Roth The Radetsky March - I think I moved when I abandoned this one; don't think I'll read it
Mario Vargas Llosa Lituma dans les Andes - abandoned halfway about when my interesting in South American literature lost its peak interest level

Then there are countless books where I read 20/30 pages and decided not yet, not yet.

Maybe I'm just not "a reader". Hmm....

Summary of my thoughts:
a) Do you pick up and start reading again?
Yes.

b) Do you shelve the book saying to yourself you will get back to it?
Yes.

c) Do you have a special area for les abandonés?
Back within the TBR but towards the bottom of the pile.

d) Do you decide to dispose of it since it didn't hold your interest the first/ second/ third time through?
Don't dispose, but if it's at my parent's house now then it's more or less abandoned.

f) Do you feel guilty about it?
I don't waste time with the feeling of "guilt".

131bragan
Avr 10, 2017, 4:00 am

I neither reject nor abandon. I just keep plugging on until I'm done. Because I am stubborn beyond all reason, or because I am an obsessive completist, or because some hopelessly optimistic part of me always thinks there's a chance the book might suddenly, magically get better. Also because I'm a one-book-at-a-time reader, and I can't not be reading something.

132ursula
Avr 10, 2017, 11:01 am

a) Do you pick up and start reading again?

Until/unless I just can't bear the thought of it anymore.

b) Do you shelve the book saying to yourself you will get back to it?
c) Do you have a special area for les abandonés?
d) Do you decide to dispose of it since it didn't hold your interest the first/ second/ third time through?


Don't apply since I don't own most of the books I read.

e) Which titles have you abandoned? Let your fellow readers know a couple of lesser known titles and some of the big ones.

One of the first books I really made a decision to abandon for good was Middlesex. I got to about 30-50 pages from the end, and had been forcing myself to pick it up for almost the entire book. One day I looked at it and thought seriously if I cared what was contained in those last pages. I realized the answer was no, and that was that. I gave up on Absurdistan about 20 pages into it - there was no way that was happening for me. I abandoned Into the Wild somewhere around the halfway point. Others I've abandoned in the last year or so: Where'd You Go, Bernadette?, The Honeymoon, Old Filth, The Pure Gold Baby.

The book I most emphatically abandoned was A Confederacy of Dunces, after two tries.

f) Do you feel guilty about it?

Nope. I don't abandon a lot of books because like some of the others above, I read from the 1001 books list and I welcome the chance to expand my reading experiences through that and whatever other books I pick up. It may not always be pleasant or easy to read some things, but I'm willing to work, and I am okay if I don't always fall in love with everything I read.

133thorold
Modifié : Avr 11, 2017, 6:09 am

I'm another member of the "postpone indefinitely rather than abandon" club - it has happened to me that a book sits on the TBR shelf with a bookmark 1/3 of the way in for the best part of a decade, but I usually find a moment soner or later when my motivation to finish that particular book has come back.

Maybe it's simply from ancestral hangups about leaving food on the plate, but I like to think that I have developed resonably good filtering skills (or maybe my standards are not as exacting as they should be...). If I do decide that a book isn't worth the effort, then of course I abandon it, but that's very rare. Most of the time it's more a question of realising that I don't have the motivation to finish the book now, even though I can see that it is worth reading.

134AlisonY
Avr 19, 2017, 6:38 pm

I'm all for abandonment. It's often just a case of right book, wrong time, and I can get totally into it when I pick it up again in a different frame of mind.

There are many abandoned titles.... Grapes of Wrath for me too, The Accidental (realise I'm probably on my own with that one), A Suitable Boy (have got into that 3 times now but keep accidentally abandoning it and don't think I've the heart to try a fourth time), Captain Correlli's Mandolin (20 years on I have a feeling I'd really love this if I tried it again now), The Best American Short Stories of the Century (I'm finding the sheer size of it a reason to keep avoiding getting past story #3), The Secret History (now that one is just a no go - I've tried 3 times now), etc., etc.

I live in hope still about many of the Abandoned Ones. It took me 25 years to get over the trauma of To the Lighthouse from school reading, but I loved it second time around.

135LolaWalser
Avr 19, 2017, 6:54 pm

Ha!--I abandoned #1 and #2 on that list too. Heller because the voice was so bloody annoying and once you get the joke (by page 2), there's no point at all in continuing. It's just wink wink nudge nudge to the end. And yet now I seem to be running into demmed knockoffs of the thing every ninth read in the old sci-fi thread, so the joke's on me...

Tolkien--ugh. In fact I read far too long into it, almost 400 pages or so. Did the hobbits lose in the end? God I hope the little bastards snuffed it.

Loved Ulysses and Moby Dick. Plan to reread both. Twice would be nice.

Ayn Rand makes me wish I were a billionaire farmer. Because then I'd buy ranches and ranchos throughout North and South America. Dozens and dozens of. And I'd outfit them all with a gajillion outhouses, and stock each with her complete works on Bible paper.

136SassyLassy
Modifié : Avr 21, 2017, 10:53 am



QUESTION 9

Reading is a life long adventure. Thinking back on your early days:

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

f) Do you still revisit them?

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

h) How important are illustrations?


______
edited for spelling

137nrmay
Modifié : Avr 20, 2017, 3:40 pm

I have very clear and dear early memories of being read to.
As a preschooler, I had 3 tattered collections of nursery rhymes and various golden books that you could buy in grocery stores. My favorite of these was Ukelele & Her New Doll about a little Hawaiian girl. A dear friend recently found a copy of that for me.

My dad brought me Alice in Wonderland and Han Christian Anderson Fairy Tales when he came home from business trips. My mom read me her old childhood copies of Heidi and The Bobbsey Twins.

In primary school I liked Curious George Takes a Job. I loved where George painted the walls to look like a jungle!
Other favorites were Millions of Cats by Wanda Gag, The Little House by Virginia Burton, and The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins by Dr. Seuss.

As for chapter books I read and reread all of these series -
Betsy-Tacy Maud Hart Lovelace
A Little Maid of Old Connecticut et al by Alice Curtis
Little House in the Big Woods and all the rest by Laura Ingalls Wilder

138cindydavid4
Modifié : Avr 20, 2017, 7:17 pm

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

A large sized version of the old testament illustrated by Feodor Stepanovich Rojankovsky . I remember the stories, but I remember his illustrations even more I can still see that wonderful ark and the animals, Abraham with Isacc, Joseph being sold....It was my big sister who read to me, and Im sure there were many many other books, But it was the bible stories that I loved (whats funny is that I am not particularly religious!)

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

I didn't get read to all that much; I learned to read I think because I wanted to know what those books were all about.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

Not sure if these old ones count as Chapter books : Heide, Little Women (and others by same author) Jane Eyre, Betsey Tacy, Ramona, One of a Kind Famly,Just So stories, The entire Golden Book Children's Illustrated Encyclopedia, many many times.....

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

they didn't really have series then like they do know, tho they had books with similar characters like Ramona, Madelene etc

However when I was a teen (YA now, I guess) I was sci fi/fantasy all the time. Loved them all, but Bradbury, Heinlein, Arthur C Clark, Barbara Hambly continue to be favorites of mine as an adult.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you? See all of the above.

f) Do you still revisit them?

Yes - mainly because I collect children's illustrated books from 1880-1930. The illustrations in these books are so incredibly beautiful, so different from todays more modern feel. My favorite illustrators include: Mary Wilcox Smith, Edmund Dulac, Arthur Rachman, Matthew Parris, Kay Greenwood....

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

Im not sure thats happening, instead I see more and more children books about adverisity . What is happening is that children have many ways now to be entertained; reading used to be the one and only, and now its just one of many. I still see kids read and love books, but they also love the technology that now competes with them

h) How important are illustrations? Incredibly important esp for younger children. I teach preschoolers with special needs, and I can guareentee you the first thing they notice in a book are the illustrations; they at first label the pictures, then the actions, and pretty soon they are telling the story with the pictures, long before they are reading the text.

139Simone2
Modifié : Avr 21, 2017, 1:06 am

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

I loved the fairy tales by the brother Grimm, Hans Andreus and Hans Andersen.

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

No I learned how to read when I was three by a neighbour girl and loved it from the first moment.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

All by Astrid Lindgren, like Pippi Langkous and De Gebroeders Leeuwenhart. And some Dutch writers you won't have ever heard of, probably, like Annie MG Schmidt, who wrote my favourite Pluk van de Petteflet.

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

I loved all those English boarding school series and detectives by Enid Blyton, but also loved Laura Ingalls Wilder and read all by Agatha Christie on a very young age.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

Besides Pippi Langkous I think of Anne Frank, Remy of Alleen op de wereld and some creepy characters by Roald Dahl.

f) Do you still revisit them?

No, I don't have the time. So many books waiting for me, I always feel in a hurry when thinking of books.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I am not aware this is the case, my own children have read many scary books and I think that is fine. All emotions caused by a book are important , I think, to keep on reading, and that is what I would like my children to do. Which is difficult, with their phones glued to their hands and Netflix ever close by.

h) How important are illustrations?

To me they are not, I am not that visual, but I can imagine they are to others.

140lilisin
Avr 21, 2017, 1:27 am

Too many good questions here! (Maybe split into two sections next time?)

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites? Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

I actually don't remember being read to so much as I remember reading next to my mom while she would read her own book. Then when I outgrew that you could find me in my room reading or outside on the deck in the swinging chair (assuming no mosquitoes). Because my mom is such a big reader it seemed only natural to go off and read on your own.

My favorite book though at that age was The Legend of the Bluebonnet which was a beautiful book about how the bluebonnets came to Texas (my home state). The illustrations was gorgeous and I loved the main female character's strength and love towards her people (native american tribe).

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites? Did you have a favourite series of books?

Seeing the image of Charlotte's Web and Stuart Little brings back good memoriess. Charlotte's Web in particular was probably the last book I read next to my mom before moving on to my own.

Growing up my favorite series was the Nancy Drew series. I even started an online book club just for the series that was conducted only over email (this would be '92, '93 probably) where I sent out newsletters and people would give their thoughts on the featured Nancy Drew book. I was the youngest at 8 years old or so and most of the members were in their 30s or 40s strangely enough. Crazy to think that as an 8 year old I was hosting a book newsletter! Doesn't seem possible now!

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

Nancy Drew was the biggest. Also loved Chronicles of Narnia. Then when I reached 9 years old I read The Mists of Avalon series during my brief foray into fantasy. But really my reading life turned around when I turned 10 and my mom gave me Les Miserables for my birthday. That revolutionized my reading.

f) Do you still revisit them?

No, I don't. I'll revisit them only if I end up having kids myself.

I did gift my friend The Legend of the Bluebonnet when he had his twins born in Houston, Texas. However, they moved the next year to Cincinnati, Ohio so I don't expect the kids to get very attached to the book as they won't have seen bluebonnets in real life.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I thought so until I started seeing that books are being written especially for emphasizing adversity. And now I think the books are actually too dark. Books about domestic abuse, and bullying and living in single parent families. Maybe because I was fortunate to grow up in a wonderfully loving home but I loved going into fantasy as a child with my reading: magic wardrobes, flying carpets, animals that could talk. I would have hated all these new books coming out that seem to be written just to target a topic instead of being written to inspire a child's imagination.

h) How important are illustrations?

For me they were never that important growing up but they certainly didn't deter from the book.

141japaul22
Modifié : Avr 21, 2017, 8:40 am

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

Too many to list, but many are still in print and I've bought for my own kids.

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

No, I read from an early age. I don't really remember being read to even though I know my mom read regularly to me up to age 4. Then I was reading on my own.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

Little House on the Prairie, Anne of Green Gables, Nancy Drew, Stuart Little, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Black Beauty, the Boxcar Children, the Secret Garden

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

I read a lot of series. Some are listed above. When I was about 10-12 I was obsessed with The Babysitters Club series and Sweet Valley High. There was one summer that I think I read several of these every day!

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?
I think that Little House on the Prairie and Anne of Green Gables really cemented my love of reading. Strong female characters in an interesting historical setting - that's still what I love most.

f) Do you still revisit them?

I'm reading Little House on the Prairie to my son so I'm revisiting it that way, but I'm not sure he will like Anne of Green Gables. I'm reading many other books I remember from childhood to him. I would reread any of the chapter books I've mentioned on my own, but only if the mood strikes. I like to reread.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I think there are a lot of excellent children's books being produced right now. I especially love that so many are geared towards engaging boys, something that I'm not sure was the case a generation or so ago. My boys LOVE non-fiction about science or the way things work. Also, in fiction, the sillier the better which there is a lot of these days. Their taste is different than mine, but I will read anything to them to get them interested in reading and books.

h) How important are illustrations?

I think they are very important in children's books. I remember the illustrations much more clearly than the text in many instances. I think of Dr. Suess, Beatrix Potter, even a lot of children's chapter books that have occasional pencil illustrations (like Little House or Roald Dahl) and that's what I remember. I also had a favorite book at my Grandma's called Moomin, Mymble, and Little My which I adored. And I love that the author of that children's book, Tove Jansson, is now one of my favorite adult authors.

I think revisiting so many of my childhood favorites through my kids made me realize how clearly the illustrations bring up memories for me, more than the words.

142thorold
Modifié : Avr 21, 2017, 10:33 am

>136 SassyLassy: Reading is a live long adventure. - I do hope so. The longer the better, as long as I can still read!

I don't have very strong memories of the "being read to" stage - probably that just means that I went back to most of those books and read them myself later. There were certainly a lot of German classics - Wilhelm Busch, Struwelpeter, Grimm, Erich Kästner, etc., and I remember a few books in connection with people: my grandmother endlessly reading us Heidi and my great-great-aunt reciting Hiawatha with Edwardian gusto.

Later on I read practically anything I could get my grubby paws on. I seem to have had a preference for the slightly out of date - E. Nesbit, C.S. Lewis, Swallows and Amazons, Kästner again, Rosemary Sutcliff, Richmal Crompton, Anthony Buckeridge, Kipling, etc., but I also consumed my fair share of mass-produced junk - Biggles, Enid Blyton and the rest. Our local library had a few shelves of Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew, but I never really got into those - too many strange foreign words. No-one I asked knew what a jalopy was...

There was a lot of gritty, working-class children's fiction from the fifties and sixties around, which was supposed to appeal to us more than all that thirties southern middle-class stuff about boarding schools and families with servants, but I don't really remember much of it. Maybe Stig of the dump. Alan Garner was quite local, but I never really got into his books, somehow. I was just a bit too old for Roald Dahl - I was reading adult books by the time his children's books started to arrive on the shelves. I'm sure I would have enjoyed them a lot.

Absolute favourites were probably the Swallows and Amazons books, their mystique only enhanced by the fact that no-one we knew in those days had ever been in a sailing boat. I still re-read those occasionally. And better late than never, as far as sailing is concerned!

No-one has mentioned non-fiction yet, but that's very important as well - I had a lot of fun with atlases, chlidren's encyclopedias, books purporting to tell me how things like autogyros, steam locomotives and electric telegraphs worked, and (especially) all those out-of-date books with instructions for making things of doubtful utility using dangerous hand-tools and unobtainable materials. Good to see that those have come back into fashion.

143LolaWalser
Avr 21, 2017, 10:51 am

Oh, I love talking about childhood reading! How it all began...

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

The one book I remember reading with my mum is a large anthology of Greek myths, because it would turn into endless question sessions. God how I loved to ask.

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

Can't recall anything of the sort... it was me and the books alone from early on. I could write by the time I was three (with LSD-like sizing effects and lots of mirror-characters!) and did so enthusiastically in books especially (copying templates!)

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

The first chapter book I read whole alone was Pippi Longstocking. Still a favourite. Next came too many to list. As a kid I re-read maniacally--ten times, fifteen times, thirty times... Verne, Dumas, Zane Grey, Karl May...

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

More or less chronologically: the Ladybird books, especially fairy tales and exploration, Tintin, Asterix, other less familiar series.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

Pippi Longstocking either imprinted itself on my consciousness or it just happened that it fit my character/needs/whatever perfectly. A super-strong little girl who lives for adventure and LIVES ON HER OWN with no one bossing her around! Ideal.

f) Do you still revisit them?

Some. I can still get a kick out of Asterix and Tintin.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

Can't answer, really. I suppose the classics are still as they are (or can be found in the "scary" form), so it's all down to choice.

h) How important are illustrations?

That's an interesting question now that the visual has come to dominate communication so much. Back when I got hooked on books and delved happily into thick tomes with small print and not so much as an illuminated initial, we were all still relatively geared toward text. But today... probably they matter more than ever. Then again, Carroll's Alice complained already in 1864 about what good is a book without pictures or conversation, so...

144cindydavid4
Avr 21, 2017, 8:00 pm

>142 thorold: No-one has mentioned non-fiction yet, but that's very important as well - I had a lot of fun with atlases, chlidren's encyclopedias, books purporting to tell me how things like autogyros, steam locomotives and electric telegraphs worked, and (especially) all those out-of-date books with instructions for making things of doubtful utility using dangerous hand-tools and unobtainable materials. Good to see that those have come back into fashion.

Oh I don't think those have ever gone out of fashion; lots of kids enjoy non fiction as much if not more so than fiction. I could often be found laying on the floor with the big Natl Geographic atlas in front of me (and to this day I use a map when I am reading books that take place in different places. Granted I tend to use google maps, but the interest is the same). We also had a set of The Golden Book Encyclopedia from 1960. I practically memorized all 16 volumes; I think my love of social studies, geography and history started from those well written articles.

145mabith
Avr 22, 2017, 5:22 pm

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?
For picture books Wuggie Norple and basically everything by Daniel Pinkwater, Caps for Sale, The Church Mice books, Pelle's New Suit, and the Flicka, Ricka, and Dicka, and Snipp, Snapp, and Snurr books by Maj Lindman

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?
We weren't left to read by ourselves until pretty late. We always DID read by ourselves in addition, but for as long as we wanted read to my parents would. If we'd refused to read by ourselves I'm sure my parents would have addressed it, but that wasn't an issue. Before I could read I'd look at picture books by myself when my parents were busy, partly since my dad was a librarian and we were taken to work with him a lot during the summer and school breaks since my parents both worked full time.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?
The Oz books, particularly Ozma of Oz and Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, the Freddy books by Walter R. Brooks, the Johnny Dixon books by John Bellairs, Mister Popper's Penguins, Betsy-Tacy series, My Father's Dragon trilogy, The Hobbit, Catherine, Called Birdy, Lydia, Queen of Palestine.

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?
See above!

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?
The Hobbit was the second longer novel I read by myself (as a first read) as a kid and it really got me started on novels. I'd been listening to a chapter a night from various novels since I was a toddler, as my siblings are a good bit older than me and we shared an attic space. My parents would read a chapter book to all of us at night. So I enjoyed listening to longer novels that way and put my solo-reading energy into comic books (Asterix is 99% of why I was desperate to learn to read). My family are big readers though so I felt a pressure to read novels starting in grade school. The first I read myself was boring and dreadful. Thankfully The Hobbit was next...

f) Do you still revisit them?
I do. I love children's novels. I'm not a big YA person, and in some ways never was, but children's/middle grade favorites I will re-read to death and I still try and read new-to-me ones. I have a lot of nieces and nephews and I ran those sections when I worked in a bookstore, but I also just love getting back into child headspace.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?
Like many others, I don't think frightening things have been stripped out of children's books, whether picture books or novels. I think there's more to frighten in books of the last 30 years than in Enid Blyton, Eleanor Estes, E. Nesbit, etc... Fairy tales are a different matter, but I think the original dark versions are easier to access now than in the 1950s when my parents were kids.

h) How important are illustrations?
In picture books they're vital, in longer chapter books they're unimportant (they can be a nice addition when done well, but not at all necessary). Picture book illustrations don't necessarily need to be detailed or high art to be great though. Just look at James Marshall's illustrations for the George and Martha books. Somehow those hippos with two little dot eyes are still so wonderfully expressive.

146AlisonY
Avr 22, 2017, 6:13 pm

I don't really remember ever being read to - I was the youngest of the three with a bit of an age gap, so perhaps everyone was fed up of doing the bedtime story thing by the time I came along.

The picture book I read over and over again (in fact I still have it in my son's bedroom) was 'Best Word Book Ever' by Richard Scarry. I don't know what it was about that book, but I never tired of pages with kittens wearing petticoats buying potatoes in the supermarket and elephants in dungarees riding tricycles. The Ladybird books were also a staple at a very young age (Cinderella in that beautiful blue gown - wow, what a girl).

I definitely didn't struggle with being left to read by myself (I read to Mum rather than the other way around), and when I went on to Chapter Books loved loads of Enid Blyton (Famous Five, Secret Seven, The Magic Faraway Tree, Mallory Towers, My Naughty Little Sister), the Mrs Pepperpot books by Alf Proysen, Roald Dahl (especially James and the Giant Peach and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory) and Nancy Drew books. I also remember spending a lot of time re-reading old girls' annuals such as Bunty and Misty, and loved big bumper books of bedtime / fairy stories.

Much loved classics included The Secret Garden, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, Little Women and What Katy Did, but I definitely read more mainstream fodder back then.

Of all the books, I think Mallory Towers stands out as a series - I couldn't get enough of that school. As I got older, like Jennifer I went through a Sweet Valley High obsessive stage (those matching gold lavaliere necklaces...) and in my first year at secondary school all the girls worked their way through every Judy Blume book (I still remember them giggling "have you met Ralph yet?". I'm sure a few of you here know what I'm talking about - it was soooo shocking at the time).

I think there's still a fair bit of scary stuff in today's children's books, so that doesn't bother me. However, it depresses me somewhat that a lot of today's kids' chapter books seemed to be very samey -published in faux handwriting print packed with doodles to pad them out into something that vaguely resembles a book. I especially hate the Dork Diary series my daughter is into - it's full of 'my BFF' inane crap, and I think so many of the current bestselling books for kids are like that (don't get me started on the grammar in them).

I think illustrations are hugely important, both at the picture book stage and in the early chapter book years, as endless print can seem quite daunting for younger kids. My two both loved Oliver Jeffers books in particular, as did I - there's such humour and originality in his drawings.

147cindydavid4
Avr 22, 2017, 10:25 pm

>145 mabith: Caps for Sale is a book I didn't discover until I became a teacher and found it in my new classroom. Oh my. I love reading it to young children, and have them act it out. So many possibilities!

148mabith
Avr 23, 2017, 9:19 am

>147 cindydavid4: Cindy, I'll never forget the voice my dad used when the peddler was yelling at the monkeys! It's one of those rare-ish picture books that you don't get tired of reading.

149cindydavid4
Modifié : Avr 23, 2017, 1:40 pm

"you monkeys! You give me back my hats" I have the kids be the monkeys to respond to me. they think its all great fun, then when the 'reading' the book themselves, they are using the text as they see the pictures, using the same tone I do. Pre reading at its best!

Another one I use that I never tire of is Kiplings How the Elephant got its Trunk from the Just So stories. There are so many possibilities for word play and action that the kids love it. Plus the language is so wonderful - tho it takes a bit of practice to say " the banks of the great grey-green, greasy Limpopo River, all set about with fever-trees' smoothly off the tongue .

(btw do not use the touchstone version - the author simplifies the language, takes out the bit about spanking, and probably isn't the best if you want the kids to experience the language and humor)

150lilisin
Avr 23, 2017, 8:58 pm

>146 AlisonY:

However, it depresses me somewhat that a lot of today's kids' chapter books seemed to be very samey -published in faux handwriting print packed with doodles to pad them out into something that vaguely resembles a book. I especially hate the Dork Diary series my daughter is into - it's full of 'my BFF' inane crap, and I think so many of the current bestselling books for kids are like that (don't get me started on the grammar in them).

Very much this. While I don't think kids books are refraining from dealing with difficult topics, I do think they are getting dumbed down. Especially as books that are supposed to be targeting 8 year olds are now being marketed to high school aged kids! I think books can include cell phone conversations without having to resort to actually typing out "c u soon lol :P" in the book.

151dchaikin
Avr 23, 2017, 10:21 pm

QUESTION 9

Children's books make me think of my children when we read to them, and that was such a magical time. It ended only a handful of years ago, but feels like ages ago. I ransacked the library for an endless zillion picture books, most of them brand new

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

I don't think my mother read to me much, maybe just to get me to go sleep, but I have no special memories of that sort. I recall that I loved Harry the Dirty Dog, because surely I identified. And I recall finding Dr. Suess discomforting, horrified especially by a bed that was too small, not to mention eating scary foods (Green Eggs and Ham, of course)

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

No...because I just didn't read books...

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

Didn't really read any.

d) Did you have a favorite series of books?

Nope.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

Answered above.

f) Do you still revisit them?

...

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I think you mean like how old fairytales killed people off and what not. That's very foreign to me. I think children's books today offer a lot that the ones from my time (1970's) didn't have, and also vice versa. But I don't think the 1970's ones were any darker.

h) How important are illustrations?

Today picture books are works of art and a major employer of artists. They get medals for art, even when the content isn't all that great. When I read to my kids, I generally found the award winners had great art, but less engaging stories. But when a book has both, especially when an artist has a good story, the children's book becomes something special. I would be moved by them, reading to my kids. Part of what I miss about reading to the kids are all the new books like this that i'm missing.

152AlisonY
Avr 24, 2017, 2:23 pm

>150 lilisin: Totally. It's like Nickelodeon's most annoying shows in print. Hate them. No good comes from my daughter reading "like, totally...." and "OMG".

>151 dchaikin: how curious that you're such an avid reader now and weren't as a child. That brings hope to the parents of many boys here I'm sure, who tend to be less enthusiastic readers than young girls.

153cindydavid4
Avr 24, 2017, 8:26 pm

>151 dchaikin: John Steinbeck famously talks about being a non reader till the age of 12 when someone gave him Mort de Artur for his birthday. He was hooked and he never looked back. Also my husbands family moved constantly, education and reading was not very valued. He got started with comics, then before he realized it, he was a reader, constantly looking for books, going to the library, soaking in everything that his family couldn't give him

154Simone2
Modifié : Avr 26, 2017, 7:50 am

>152 AlisonY: Nickelodeon is the worst indeed, the comparison made me laugh and I recognize it very much (my own daughter saying OMG and talking about her BFF, things like that!)

155dchaikin
Avr 25, 2017, 8:10 am

>152 AlisonY:, >153 cindydavid4: I've always been confused on why I didn't read and then suddenly started to read. I regret it because I missed a lot and have a permanent view of myself as a poor reader who hasn't read what I should have read. A high school teacher once got me to pick up several books for extra credit. Then, at 17, the switch flipped and I got really into reading. Wish, like Steinbeck, I could have at least started at 12. : )

156dchaikin
Avr 25, 2017, 1:44 pm

Thinking about this more. I should add that although neither of my parents were big readers, they did read a bit and there were books around the house that I always wondered about. (I have some of them now in my house) And I had an older sister who read a lot then and talked about everything she read (she doesn't read that much anymore). I like to think that seeing those books and wondering at the mystery of them laid something of a foundation.

157cindydavid4
Avr 25, 2017, 10:01 pm

probably did, more than you know. It always astonds me, what people remember, and how we all (often silently) make an impact on someone's life.

158mabith
Avr 26, 2017, 10:42 am

Dan, I'm sure you're giving hope to any parents here whose kids haven't taken to reading yet.

159jjmcgaffey
Avr 27, 2017, 7:24 pm

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

I was thinking that it was basically the Little Golden Books (I remember The Poky Little Puppy in particular, and Kipling - Dad used to read us the Just So Stories at bedtime. But I'm recognizing so many that others are mentioning here - some I'd completely forgotten about (Caps for Sale!). Dad also _told_ us bedtime stories - we're trying to get him to write down the Creampuff stories (Creampuff the Dragon) and get them published, because they're fantastic stories.

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

No. As I recall, we got read to at bedtime (I've got one sister a year and a half younger, and another 6 years younger - not sure she ever got read to). If I wanted a story during the day, I went and found one. I read a lot of Little Golden Books that way - and found Dick and Jane incredibly boring when I went to school. The Serendipity series, too.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

Um. Yes. Lots! Pippi Longstocking, Narnia, Swallows and Amazons (I read about half the series as a kid, then rediscovered them and that there were some I hadn't read before - yay!), dozens upon dozens of horse and dog stories - Marguerite Henry, Terhune, Farley, Black Beauty; Asterisk and Tintin, not technically chapter books but there's more dense language in there than a good many that are. Enid Blyton (brownies, school books, mysteries...), Swiss Family Robinson, fairy tales (the Andrew Lang colored fairy books, Hans Christian Anderson, the Brothers Grimm), Little House on the Prairie, Charlotte's Web. Also Tom Swift Jr. and Rick Brant.

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

The Black Stallion, Narnia, Swallows and Amazons, Tom Swift, Rick Brant...lots more.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

Swallows and Amazons - I loved that they had to work on achieving things, they didn't just happen magically. I was (am) really annoyed by the two "fictional" books in the series, where the children are being told stories - Missie Lee and Peter Duck. Bleah. My favorite single book in that series is We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea - they are totally overwhelmed and just have to deal with things as they come up. I could feel that I could do that.

Tom Swift and Rick Brant - Tom is older and can do more stuff, Rick is more of a tinkerer. But both of them meet complicated situations with "I can make something to fix that". Deep layers in my mind.

f) Do you still revisit them?

I still love Swallows and Amazons, and reread regularly. I tried to reread Tom and Rick...and failed completely, they're idiotic. I spent more time being mad at the characters for doing stupid stuff (split the party) than caught up in the story. I recently gave away all my books (though I still have a good many in e-versions - I might read, someday. Not today).

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I agree with previous commentators - there is less grand danger (dragons, murderers, plague, wandering away and being permanently lost) and a lot more local, realistic, reasonable dangers like child abuse and bullying. I find a lot of children's stories these days too nasty to read.

h) How important are illustrations?

Eh. Very important to pre-readers (I can still see the illustrations in The Poky Little Puppy), progressively less important as the words make the pictures. There are children's books I read now where I _disagree_ with the illustrations, if I don't see them first - my image of X doesn't look anything like that! Like movies, illustrations can lock a reader down to one visualization rather than letting them make their own.

In an odd example - I saw the Disney 101 Dalmations, at about 9. Then I didn't see it for 4-5 years, and in that time I found and read the book, which has a _lot_ more story to it than the movie. To this day, when I remember the story, I see the characters and events in the book, in Disney's style. I've both seen the movie (and was very disappointed at the paucity of the story) and read the book quite a few times since then, but while I see a few scenes in the pen-and-ink style of the book's illustrations, most of it comes out in Disney images. Including ones that Disney never illustrated - Missus (or Perdita, since the mother in the movie has black spots), the terrier, the Irish Setter, the church on the way back...

I owned about 1000 books when I was 10, and lost all but one (Swiss Family Robinson, an (I discovered only recently) abridged copy). I've regained a good many of them, but not all - I don't think I've read Pippi since then. I should go find a copy.

160SassyLassy
Mai 1, 2017, 9:31 am



QUESTION 10

May is Short Story Month. With this in mind

a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not?

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on?

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so?

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one?

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories.


161thorold
Mai 1, 2017, 1:20 pm

>160 SassyLassy: Short stories

Yes and no. Short stories written for the big-circulation magazines during most of the 20th century had to jump some very tough editorial hurdles, and I find that the people who could get over those hurdles consistently are really worth reading: Flannery O'Connor, Patricia Highsmith, Alice Munro, Tennessee Williams, Elizabeth Taylor, P.G. Wodehouse, Hemingway, etc., etc. It is quite a different skill from novel-writing. (It's not just English writers, either: Kleist, Maupassant, Chekhov, Calvino, ...)

But more recent short story collections are all-too-often leftovers from creative writing workshops, written to a formula, and of no interest except to the author. Especially to be avoided are short story collections that come out in the wake of a successful first novel - I've been bitten by those more times than I care to remember...

162tonikat
Mai 1, 2017, 4:31 pm

I do read them - used to read them more - but as with most of my reading I don't read them enough. I think, strangely, that whilst attracted to them, I can be slow pressing my reset button and moving on to new subject matter from one to another (especially as I've got older - and especially when I am busy/stressed at work). So whilst it seems a good idea to motor through short stories in practice this is a difficulty, a hurdle. Also coming across a short story that is really quite long can stop the party for some time.

Don't save them for special times - they may get read more at certain times, maybe when I have more time.

I think as a late teen I read Hemingway suggest that the way to learn to be a writer was to write short stories...and I've certainly caught that idea from others. Sometimes I have seen them referred to as a step between poetry and a novel - but I'm not sure of that. They are wholly different from either, mostly- that's a generalisation I am sure must be dodgy in some eyes, even my own maybe tomorrow, as I suppose would be any differentiation I make between them and novels - may be true in many cases but I am sure there'd be ways to achieve what I suggest cannot be in either mode. There are quite a few novels I've wished would have had the economy of a short story, but now I stray towards cattiness and I'm naming no names, I'd only forgive them.

I've only ever written one short story - for a workshop. I don't really believe in literary competitions, not that I have any short stories to enter. So its not something I'm considering.

Lots of favourites, endless really - Hemingway, Tolstoy, Faulkner, Katherine Mansfield, Raymond Carver, brothers Grimm, I read my first Hoffman last year The Sandman, Salinger, Akutagawa, Bolano, I have an anthology somewhere of contemporary global short stories I like a lot and not read for ages (and not catalogued I think), the list is endless - a number I have read just one or two by and have meant for ages to read more - Hawthorne, Maupassant, James, more Russians. I'm enthusing myself.

163jjmcgaffey
Mai 1, 2017, 8:20 pm

I like short stories a little bit. They're a great way to be introduced to a new author - but I keep getting anthologies and reading them and not finding anyone I really want to read more of. Occasionally I do find a new author that way, but not all that often - not as often as I hope. And they're a lovely extra bit in a familiar universe - what happened to X? Well, they're not getting an entire novel, but here's a short story about them...

No, I just read them when I feel like it. And yes, sometimes that's when I can't concentrate enough to get through a novel, but mostly it's just when that particular book (anthology) appeals. Or when I've just read a novel and find some short stories to fill in around the edges.

They are a different level/type of writing. But I don't consider them either better or worse than writing a novel. I've seen too many comments from authors about how they tried to write a short story and it insisted on being a novel, or how their comfort level was short stories and they had to really push to expand one to a novel (novels are easier to sell, or to self-publish. People get annoyed at paying for shorts - especially when so many full novels are selling for 99 cents). There are also novels which consist of a bunch of short stories, with or without a frame - some very good, some not so much.

Nope. I'm not a writer. I tell myself lots of stories, and have a whole universe (universes - they're worldwalkers) and dozens of characters - but my stories tend to start in the middle and keep going and going and... Beginnings and endings are too hard to interest me. So I'll keep telling myself stories, and reading others'.

Janet Kagan mostly wrote short stories - I found her through her novels, which consist of one Star Trek novel, one (fantastic) SF novel, and one that consists of a bunch of short stories and a frame (actually, the latest edition skips the frame, and I think it's better that way). They've just recently released all(?) of her short stories in a collection, too - The Collected Kagan. There are several story groups from one world/universe that could have been put together the way Mirabile was, but it never happened - and she died, so there won't be any more. Wahh!

Sharon Lee and Steve Miller have been writing as a pair for decades; they're up to...15? novels in the Liaden universe and a few outside it. But they started off, wrote three books, and died a mid-list death in the 80s. They kept writing, some novels and a _lot_ of short stories, and when the internet allowed people to find them (and vice versa) they discovered they had a lot of fans of the Liaden Universe. They've been releasing short stories on a semi-regular basis ever since, and the stories are great - excellent examples of filling in around the edges of a novel-built universe.

Dorothy Sayers also wrote short stories, mostly about Lord Peter but not all.

Theodore Cogswell is one I just rediscovered - I knew _one_ short story by him, The Spectre General, which is absolutely wonderful. I also just got a collection of his short stories - haven't read any of them yet. He may be, like Janet Kagan, preferentially a short story writer - which makes it much harder to track down his work. LT and various index sites help, though.

Oh, the People stories by Zenna Henderson! Again, read them first and always as collections.

I guess I don't really like short stories, that are standalone. Or at least, very few of them (The Spectre General is the only one I can think of) make an impression on me by themselves - unless there are more stories, or preferably novels, set in the same universe, they tend to blend together. Though if I find multiple good ones by one author, I start looking for that author.

164lilisin
Mai 1, 2017, 9:42 pm

I typically don't go out of my way to read short stories but a lot of the books I've been buying in Japan recently have been short stories. Basically when looking through the index, what I thought were chapter names just ended up being short story titles. Also, short works sell just as well as longer workers here so often they'll have the main work at 100 or so pages and then put in two or three short stories after it to fill up more pages and to include the stories. This has gotten me to read more short stories than I used to.

Otherwise I don't go out of my way to read short stories as I prefer to be immersed for longer in a book. I do love novellas though.

Since these short stories lately aren't an anthology but are instead by the same author, I read through the book like a normal book so I can count the whole book as read.

c) Different level of writing? Couldn't say they do. Just have to be smarter with fewer pages to get their point across I suppose.

d) I don't write, so no. But I've been tempted to enter translation contests but I don't have the self-discipline to do them on my own time.

165ipsoivan
Mai 2, 2017, 8:17 pm

William Trevor was, I think, the first short story author that I went out of my way to buy a collection of (in my 20s?), and then passed it around all my friends, one of whom used it to prop open a window... and then it rained ... I still have that volume, and still think I'll reread it, squashed as it is.

Other than that, no, I'm not much of a consumer. I don't have any good reason why.

166mabith
Mai 2, 2017, 8:38 pm

a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not?
I do, but I tend to think of myself as not being a short story person and I don't generally seek them out.

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on?
Nope.

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so?
Certainly a different skill set, but I wouldn't say a different level.

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one?
Normally, no, but now you mention these contests I kind of want to!

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories.
I really loved Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's short story collection, The Thing Around Your Neck. Know the Mother (which is a collection of very short or flash fiction) by Desiree Cooper absolutely blew me away. I think a good teacher could spend at least a week on each short piece. I also recently read the collected stories of Breece D'J Pancake, which I greatly enjoyed.

167cindydavid4
Mai 3, 2017, 9:49 am



a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not? I do, but I can't get through an anthology all at once - tend to read a few, then pick up again a while later when Im in the mood. I especialy enjoy anthologies where the stories connect: Olive Kitteridge and Kissing the Witch are two good examples.

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on? Most of the short stories I read are in magazines like the New Yorker, Atlantic etc so I read them when I get them. I enjoy collections like the Best American Short Stories, and often will bring those with me when traveling

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so? definitely require different skills - in short stories the writer needs to develop his plot and characters in a much more condensed time. Not all novelists can be good short story writers, and vice verse

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one? I have dabbled writing some before, but no, not interested in entering them in anything

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories. Ray Bradbury, Kurt Vonnegut, Arthur C Clark, Chekov, Neil Gaiman

168Simone2
Mai 5, 2017, 2:51 am

I do like short stories more than I always thought I did. I hardly go looking for them but somehow I often end up with a short stories book and am really surprised. Just last week for example, I finished A Slanting of the Sun by Donal Ryan, which is absolutely great.

Some other favourites are:
- The Fahrenheit Twins by Michel Faber: sooo scary
- The Dark Room by Rachel Seiffert: very very good stories about WWII/judaism
- What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank by Nathan Englander: also on judaism but completely different
- Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins: a SecretSanta present with stories based in Nevada, which I loved
- The Woman Destroyed by Simone de Beauvoir: perhaps her best. Very confronting stories about women, marriage, aging and adultery.

All I could highly recommend, also to those who think they don't like short stories.

169nrmay
Mai 5, 2017, 3:24 pm

Some of my favorite short stories -

The Open Window
The Storyteller
The Lumber-Room
all by Saki

The Huckabuck Family: and How They Raised Popcorn in Nebraska and Quit and Came Back by Carl Sandburg

170dchaikin
Modifié : Mai 5, 2017, 8:22 pm

>161 thorold: Mark, this is a very insightful post.

Q10

a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not?

I do, but... My problem with fiction and literary stuff in general is that I'm a bad starter. And, with short stories, I have to start again and again. So, that's a strike against them. But, I find they can have what I like to think of an electricity that is generally unsustainable in a novel

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on?

don't think so...

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so?

level is the wrong word, to me. Short stories do different things, but often they need to be quickly readable, create atmosphere and have impact all in one or a few key scenes. So there is a skill. But there are other types of short stories too.

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one?

goodness, would be fun to try...or could be painfully disastrous.

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories.

My author recall on this is not so good. A lot of my favorites have come from literary magazines and author's names come in and out my head quickly. And I haven't read the most well known ss writers. I'll note Checkhov, Alice Munro, Isaac Singer... but that leaves out so many wonderful ones I've forgotten. For example I mostly read a 1997 issue of The Missouri review twice (in 2005 and 2012), and loved it both times, and I remember I discovered Jesse Lee Kercheval there, whose "story" later became part of her memoir of growing up in the late '60's (Space). But the story—about being a girl and a tween and at summer camp and dealing with confusing race and friendship relations while the first moon landing was taking place—was better in the magazine than in the book.

171cindydavid4
Mai 5, 2017, 10:02 pm

>169 nrmay: oh, your mention of Saki reminded me how much I love him, as well as O'Henry stories. I remember being introduced to them in 6th grade, along with Edgar Allen Poe shorts. Wonderful stuff!

172AnnieMod
Modifié : Mai 8, 2017, 5:56 pm

Ce message a été supprimé par son auteur

173AnnieMod
Mai 8, 2017, 5:56 pm

Q10:

a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not?
Yes. Actually I prefer them in a lot of cases. Mystery and science fiction (both genres that I call favorite) work pretty well in the shorter forms (I would argue that novellas are the perfect length for most SF) and I am used to reading them there. Non-genre stories do confuse me for the most part though - I love Cheever for example but other stories in the same style just fall flat. I do not like plot-less stories and a lot of the current short stories are like that. I still try to read some - and occasionally I will find a new author I like - but I am more likely to stay in the genre stories (and classic non-genre ones).

And then there is this new - let's call it mania - to publish chapters of a book as stories before getting the book published. Having a story that grows up later to a novel is one thing. Getting a new novel and having a note how half the chapters were stories before that is a bit too much - even when the novel is essentially a linked stories one (and even worse when it is supposed to be a complete narrative).

And I really dislike extracts of longer works masquerading as stories - if it can work on its own, it does not belong inside of a novel.

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on?
Not really - it is more about what I am in the mood for than what time it is in my life.

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so?
Getting to the point in less than 100 pages seems to be a lost art. I am looking at my shelves of SF and Fantasy novels through the years and the book lengths kept growing - while the standard is under 300 pages just a few decades ago, now you rarely see anything under 400. Some authors can pull it off, some cannot. The problem with stories is that they cannot grow that much (in the SF&F genre there is a very clear limit). So it requires a lot more compressed writing - and only going for the meat of the story (or you end up with a long-winded drivel that goes nowhere).

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one?
No. I went through my writing phase in high school, realized that I lack the imagination to create characters and these days I am just reading. :) And feeling just fine not trying to be a writer.

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories.
To name a few: Isaac Asimov, John Cheever, Ted Chiang, Edward D. Hoch,

174SassyLassy
Mai 11, 2017, 3:27 pm



QUESTION 11

There are many sources for excellent book reviews, including right here on LT.

a) Do you read book reviews?

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?

175jjmcgaffey
Mai 12, 2017, 12:22 am

a) Do you read book reviews?
Yes, often - especially for books by authors I don't know. Mostly on Amazon, rather than here on LT - here I'll read the reviews when I'm writing my own!

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?
Amazon. There are quite a few good, succinct reviews there - a sketch of the plot, what's particularly good, what's not. And Amazon reviews are very helpful for pointing out the books that are riddled with typos - I can't stand those, so I won't get the book if there's more than a couple reviews mentioning them. This is basically for the self-published free books, and the classics turned into e-books (some of those are really good, and some are unedited OCRed scans. Ugh).

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?
Nnnnnoooo.... not really. If I'm getting the latest book in a series or by an author I know I love, I usually don't bother to read the reviews, before or after. I'm not bothered by spoilers, though - even if I know how it ends, the interesting part is how they got there, usually. There are some books that can be spoiled, but they're usually not very good books - the only thing that holds your interest is the SECRET, and if I read the answer in a review I don't need to read the book. The only time I'd deliberately go looking for reviews after I'd read a book would be if I thought I'd like a book and found it unexpectedly bad or uninteresting - then I'd check Amazon and LT reviews to see if there's something I missed, or if others agreed with me.

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?
No. On LT, basically I read the reviews on a book I'm in the process of reviewing; it often points out something I thought at the time (while reading) but forgot to mention in my review. *see below about threads

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?
Very rarely.

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?
If a book sounds interesting, but I have no real connection to it, I'll read the reviews to see if I want it (BookBub, a lot - so .99 cents or free, mostly free). Other than that, it's not. Oh, sometimes I see a review/article in the newspaper and mark down that book as one I want to read - but by the time I find it, usually I've forgotten the review and just remember that I wanted that book.

*Hmm. I do get hit by book bullets on LT - I'd forgotten those. Not the reviews on the review page, but the (usually) quick reviews in someone's book thread. I follow a lot of people who do interesting things, even when what they read is marginal or uninteresting to me - kidzdoc's thread(s) are fascinating, but I don't have any interest in more than one in a hundred of what he reads. I'll glance at his reviews and move on. Others I see review after review of books I've read, or have and intend to read, or want to get - and when they review (or just mention) a book I've never heard of, I'm a lot more likely to go get it. From the library, at least. So those reviews do have some effect on my book obtaining.

176thorold
Modifié : Mai 12, 2017, 5:13 am

QUESTION 11

There are many sources for excellent book reviews, including right here on LT.

a) Do you read book reviews?
Yes. It's always fascinating to see other people's opinions of books I've read, or am about to read, or am simply curious about. They are also often a very useful source of basic information about the book that it isn't necessarily easy to track down from the bibliographic data ("this is the one everyone reads at school"; "...an unrepresentative posthumous collection of bits and pieces you don't need unless you've read everything else she wrote"; "...best-forgotten misstep into the politics of the time"; "...unsuccessful sequel to ..."; "...so much more than a story about a man chasing a whale").
Another reason for reading reviews is that I enjoy writing reviews myself, and I'm curious to see how other people approach the problem.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?
Mainly in the press. At the moment the Guardian's book page is the only one I look at regularly for new reviews. One of my plans for retirement is to start subscribing to a book review paper again - maybe the LRB or TLS - something I gave up years ago when I realised that the pile of unopened copies was growing and I was already 6 months behind...
If I'm interested in a particular book or author I often look around for old press reviews on the web.
I don't use Amazon much, normally only for books I want but haven't managed to find elsewhere, so I don't have much reason to look at their reviews.
I sometimes look at specialist blogs to discover books on particular subjects, but I don't actively follow any book-bloggers.
I really enjoy the old-style NYRB essay-reviews - Professor X writing 10 000 words about his views on a topic you never thought about before, followed by a brief mention in the last paragraph that Professors Y and Z have recently published books on this topic, which disagree with each other in embarrassing ways, and neither of which is a patch on Professor X's own book, long-overdue for a reprint...

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?
Sometimes. I'm not too worried about "spoilers", but for some books I want to make my own mind up and sketch out a review myself before looking at other people's ideas. On the other hand, for other books it's sometimes more interesting to launch into the book knowing what the debate is going to be about...

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?
Yes. There are quite a few people whose threads in CR or elsewhere I look at regularly. I'm not going to name names, because I would inevitably forget someone important! But I do find it interesting to see what people whose opinions I respect have to say about books I wouldn't normally look at.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?
Yes, but not as often as I should.

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?
I don't often rush out to buy a newly published book on the strength of a review (once so far this year, I think). But it does all get filed away in my brain and might contribute to a later buying decision. And back-catalogue reviews certainly play a big role when I'm researching "books I should read on subject X".

177cindydavid4
Modifié : Mai 12, 2017, 6:49 am

>175 jjmcgaffey: here are some books that can be spoiled, but they're usually not very good books - the only thing that holds your interest is the SECRET, and if I read the answer in a review I don't need to read the book.

I guess it depends on why you are reading - my reason is much more than just knowing the secret; its the whole journey to get there, to see how it unfolds. Thats why I don't nec mind spoilers, but I don't think books that can be spoiled are bad books. I can pull several from shelves in front of me as examples of favorite books that I was glad I wasn't spoiled by, But your mileage may vary

178cindydavid4
Modifié : Mai 12, 2017, 6:51 am


.a) Do you read book reviews?

yes - first to get ideas for good reads, and to see how others felt about a book I finished.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?

NY Times, Amazon* , New Yorker

*caveat - I am picky about what I want in a review, and often I avoid 5 star reviews on Amazon. They are usually just too gushy and don't give me the info I want

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?

No, but if the review is online, I sometimes like to go back to read it after I finish the book. Often that reread adds to the feel I have for the book

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?

Yes - I am in a group called Book Balloon which used to be Readerville, that has recently joined LT. There are several people there who are my reading buddies - when they mention a book its almost a given I will respond the same way. I haven't been on LT enough to get a feel for the individual posters and their reviews, however I have found some that keep recommending certain books that appeal to me, but don't nec review them.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?

yes esp if the review is especially helpful in making a decision

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?

I will often read a review of an interesting book, then check it out at a bookstore so I can browse through it first. Sometime its love at first read and buy it, others are eh, I'll read wait for other reviews or from RL readers I know. Others I know I'd not care for.

A corollary to this question is what star reviews influence you to read a book the most?

I often check out the three or four star reviews, looking for the most helpful. They often are the ones that give more information and are more objective. Then often for fun I'll check out the 1 star, just to see what problems I might need to be aware of, but usually for a good laugh.

179mabith
Mai 12, 2017, 11:03 pm

a) Do you read book reviews?
I do, but mostly just here on LT on people's threads. In general I find the reviews in our threads to be much more helpful than 'official reviewer' ones.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?
I read some reviews on BookRiot, and I look up a lot of things on Disability in Kid Lit and We Need Diverse Books. If I'm reading a book with disabled characters I want reviews by people with that disability, if it's a book dealing with Mexican culture I want reviews by Mexican people, etc...

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?
Not really. If I'm going to read the book in the next month or two I'll do a very cursory scan of a review here, if it's longer away than that I'll likely have forgotten the details. I don't really remember to go back afterwards.

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?
After being active here for about 5 years, there are definitely people I always follow. There's always some overlap in what we read, but always genres I don't read much of as well. You get a sense of “we have the same taste in historical fiction/memoir/etc” so I'll give more weight to those books.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?
I'm not sure what this means? Thumbing through magazine/paper reviews? Saving them? I'll page through the free library book periodical if it's about.

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?
Reviews by trusted people heavily influence what I buy, but I don't buy that much really. Mostly I only buy books if they're a specialist favorite of mine, and are not available through my libraries. I tend more towards buying books I already know I love. Certainly those reviews influence what I read and put on my (virtual) to-read shelves. For new-to-me purchases I try to favor books in translation and books not in print in the US.

180cindydavid4
Mai 12, 2017, 11:28 pm

>179 mabith: 'thumbing' reviews: Amazon asks 'is this review helpful' and you click on the thumb up or thumb down. I've seen other online places do this as well

Also interested in Disability in Kid LIt - Is this a website? when I was getting my masters in the 80, my thesis was on the presence of disabilities in children's literature and how the disabled are portrayed. Id love to see something like that, 30 years later.

181mabith
Mai 13, 2017, 1:22 am

Cindy, yes, a website. It's a really wonderful resource and they work so hard. I'm disabled myself, happened when I was 21, and I rejoice in books with disabled characters, even when the issue is far different from mine. And of course children need that, seeing their reflections in books, even more.
http://disabilityinkidlit.com/

182AlisonY
Mai 13, 2017, 2:19 pm

My tuppence:

a) Do you read book reviews?
Very much so. I enjoy stumbling across books at random, but I have to balance that with some well researched reviews so I'm fairly sure of not hitting a completely duff run of reads.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?
I probably get most from our very own CR thread reviews, but other than that I like reading reviews on Amazon and also in The Saturday Times.

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?
No, unless I'm just about to pick it up. It takes me so long to get around to books on my wish list that I'm in no danger of remembering much about the reviews I've read other beyond the fact that they've piqued my interest in the book.

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?
Definitely. A number of people in CR have very similar reading tastes to me so I keep a particularly close eye on their threads, but I follow many of the CR threads as they introduce me to books I'd never have picked up or stumbled across myself, even if I don't 100% share the reading tastes of the reviewer. Then there are those whose reading tastes are quite different to mine, but their reviews are so well written and provide so much interesting debate that I keep up with them for sheer enjoyment.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?
No, for the sole reason that I never remember about this feature. I wish you could somehow do it within the thread when they appear there.

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?
I would say a good 60-70% of what I read is on the back of reviews. The rest I am happy to leave to chance.

183cindydavid4
Mai 13, 2017, 8:22 pm

>182 AlisonY: Then there are those whose reading tastes are quite different to mine, but their reviews are so well written and provide so much interesting debate that I keep up with them for sheer enjoyment.

Oh yes! And inevitably they will surprise you with a book recommendation you are so intrigued by that you read it and find that you love it too!

184tonikat
Mai 20, 2017, 10:25 am

QUESTION 11

There are many sources for excellent book reviews, including right here on LT.

a) Do you read book reviews?

- I do. But am not married to them.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?

- TLS, LRB, Paris Review, NYRB, some others, also Guardian/observer to some extent - and increasingly recognise reviewers I respect. Also other web fora.

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?

- in theory, though may never come back to it if so.

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?

- I guess, like with recognising reviewers, as I get to know people on here, see their post and reviews that helps fit reviews into a perspective. I read reviews on the book's page when i m learning about the book - don't follow reviews in general, tend to d so for things that interest me and when they do. in press I will read things about things new to me first and read certain reviewers/writers.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?

- I didn't, but saw a comment that made me realise that for the writer it may be helpful so i am going to try and remember now - I've never put a review up so had not thought of that.

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?

- they can enthuse m into buying a book, and possibly the opposite. But I try more and more to follow my own feelings and learnings from my reading to choose what i want to buy and read, especially listen to my heart on that...and listening to the mind/heart of another may just distract me from what I need.

185dchaikin
Mai 20, 2017, 6:44 pm

Q 11

a) Do you read book reviews?

It's why here in CR. I like reading about books.

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?

I mostly stopped reading professional reviews. I used to love the Book Review section of the NYTimes. But it evolved and I changed and maybe ten years ago I stopped. I generally respect professional reviews as a whole.

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?

I like reading about a book I'm planning to read. Sometimes I regret it, but not often with the kinds of books I have been reading lately. So, the answer is no, I just read the review when I see it.

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?

Of course. Yes to both questions. I try to follow everyone here.

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?

CR used to thumb a lot, then we stopped. I wish we still did, because it's a positive feedback, and sometimes it's nice to just thumb and not have to say anything else. When we did as a group, I thumbed a lot. Now, I often don't think about doing it.

(I like Alison's suggestion in >182 AlisonY:. I wish there was a way to link between our threads and book review on the book page, such that the thumbs linked too. )

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?

Of course I'm inspired to read books based off reviews, but I don't keep clear enough track to answer this question well. A lot, but sometimes not. ??

186dchaikin
Mai 20, 2017, 6:47 pm

I'm going to drop in a request to LT based on my thumb comment- which is based on Alison's.

187dchaikin
Mai 20, 2017, 6:56 pm

188AlisonY
Mai 21, 2017, 9:18 am

Nice job, Dan - would be great if they added that feature.

189Oandthegang
Modifié : Mai 21, 2017, 12:44 pm

QUESTION 11

a) Do you read book reviews?

Yes, but only if I come across them. I don't hunt them down, and I seldom read reviews of fiction or poetry (apart from the reviews posted by CL members).

b) Apart from LT, where do you find reviews you respect?

In broadsheet newspapers and in magazines. Also on BBC Radio.

c) If a review is of a book you know you will read, do you save the review until you have read the book?

If it is a book I will read anyway I would not read the review before reading; it's unlikely I would go back to check the review after I had read the book unless there were something in the book that puzzled me. (I notice there has been some discussion about spoilers. I loathe spoilers. I get really cross when any review - book, film, play, etc - gives away any thing more than an outline, and don't get me started on trailers and pre-release promotion. As far as possible I like to come to things with little or no prior knowledge so that I can experience the work with no preconceptions. I shall always be grateful that through a peculiar set of circumstances I was taken to see 'Jaws' before I'd seen or heard anything about it, not even a single about the plot. If I am reading a review and I begin to suspect that the reviewer is not bothered about giving away information I immediately stop reading it. With CL reviews I am not bothered by spoilers, though I try to avoid including any in my reviews. I guess they don't bother me on CL because the reviews are so often of books which I am unlikely to read, and where a review is making me interested in reading the book I just stop, and also if it is a major spoiler people normally flag and conceal them. I guess I see CL reviews as reporting/discussion so my expectations are different and that's why it doesn't make me cross.)

d) On LT, do you have certain people whose reviews you follow? Do you follow their reviews even if you don't read similar books?

Yes, I follow (though don't always keep up to date) other Club Read contributors, many of whom have a range of reading, so most of the time I am reading for interest reviews of books I will never read, and often seeing reviews which tempt me to add yet more books to the TBR pile, and sometimes I'm surprised to find that they have read something I've read, in which case it is always interesting to get a different slant (and cheering when an enthusiasm is shared).

e) Do you take the time to thumb reviews?

No (Ah, now that I've read everyone's comments I see that this is a question about the little thumb icons next to reviews, rather than thumbing through journals. I haven't 'thumbed' a review, not sure if I know how, but am not sure on what basis I would/should do it. There are lots of reviews in CL that are really well written, good to read, and often informative and/or amusing. Would/should I click on a thumb to show that I have appreciated that review? In most cases the review will be of a book I may never read, so I couldn't really assess its degree of helpfulness, other than perhaps in telling me that this is not a book I would read. I've not read Dan's post, linked above, yet. Will do so.)

f) Lastly, how much are reviews reflected in your book buying or lack thereof?

Almost never for fiction, as I seldom read fiction reviews, but possibly up to fifty percent of the time with non-fiction, especially history, as I often buy history books as a result of reading or hearing a review of a book, or occasionally just a subject which is new to me. The most particular example of that which comes to mind is The Greatest Knight by Thomas Asbridge (which regrettably is still in my TBR). I knew nothing of William Marshall, heard his story being discussed on the radio as a result of the book's publication, and rushed out and bought it. Someday I'll get there...

190Oandthegang
Mai 21, 2017, 2:42 pm

QUESTION 10

May is Short Story Month. With this in mind

a) Do you read short stories? Why or why not?

Yes I do read short stories, though less frequently than novels. Sometimes it's nice to read something quickly. Also because of the restricted length short stories tend to work differently from novels, so swapping over to short stories is a bit like cleansing the palate.

b) Do you save them for particular times such as travel, busy times and so on?

Not particularly, though they are good for times when I either can't engage or am too tired to read something longer. The difficulty with collections of short stories by the same author is that one can be tempted to read straight through them, at which point they can begin to lose their distinctiveness. I try to read a story or two and then read something else. This isn't always the case, some books of short stories can be read through.

c) Do you consider them as requiring a different level of writing skill than novels? If so, how so?

It is definitely a different skill, and not many authors can do both successfully. I think of short stories as often having a punch line, not perhaps literally, but in spirit. Alternatively they can be contemplative, an examination of a particular experience or moment. They are often a sort of distillation with all but essential details excluded. Then of course there are the specialized short stories, such as Conan Doyles' Sherlock Holmes stories.

d) There are many short story writing contests this month. Would you consider entering one?

No.

e) Give us an idea of your favourite short story writers or stories.

Margaret Atwood, Italo Calvino, Alistair MacLeod, P G Wodehouse's Uncle Fred Flits By and 'The Truth About George' (not recognised by Touchstones) (I hadn't thought of Wodehouse as a short story writer as his short stories are much like his novels, but of course many of his books were collections of short stories, and having just checked the title of 'The Truth About George' I may find myself rereading Meet Mr Mulliner although the quality of his short stories is somewhat variable). And though I've not yet sat down to address his work properly, I've enjoyed what of Saki I have read.

When I was young the short stories of Ray Bradbury made a big impression on me, particularly the Illustrated Man collection. I've never reread them, perhaps I should.

Oh, and of course there is that whole subset of short stories - the ghost story. All those wonderful M R James stories. When I was a child a copy of Lord Halifax's Ghost Book was kept in the guest room, though why it was deemed appropriate to have guests scared out of their wits was always rather a mystery. Amongst the masterpieces it contained I remember particularly The Monkey's Paw and The Willows, as well as James' The Mezzotint, which in memory still gives me the creeps. These were great stories for retelling in the dark.

191Oandthegang
Mai 21, 2017, 4:27 pm

I know this ship sailed nearly a month ago, but just to get caught up for myself:-

QUESTION 9

Reading is a life long adventure. Thinking back on your early days:

a) In the days when you were still being read to, or were looking at picture books, which were your favourites?

There were a lot of strange books whose names I've forgotten, but the books I remember being read to me were the A A Milne Winnie The Pooh books, including When We Were Very Young and Now We Are Six, which aren't Pooh books of course, but were published in uniform editions and illustrated by Shepherd.

As I always liked Katy The Kitten (not recognised by Touchstones) I suspect it must have been read to me when I was small. I always remembered it as "Katy the kitten, a small fat cat, lay asleep in the hall, in a ball, on the mat." but I see from the internet that she was a small tiger cat. I was pleased when a small person of my acquaintance had it read to her on a visit and like it so much that I was asked if it could be taken home with her, which it was. (I see this book has been reissued, but judging by the cover the artwork has been updated. The original was in warm colours with soft almost Ladybird Book style pictures.)

b) Did you struggle against being left to read by yourself, afraid no one would read to you any longer?

Although I don't remember this, I've been told that I pretended not to be able to read for fear that I would no longer be read to at night, and the night time story reading continued even though it was known that I could, and did, read by myself.

c) Once you made it to "Chapter Books", which were your favourites?

I don't remember what I read when, but I carried on rereading Pooh for a very long time, and I was a big fan of both Jungle Books (Kipling's originals). From the state of its dust jacket it seems I was a frequent reader of the combined Alice In Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass. There was also Black Beauty and The Wind In The Willows.

Later on my favourite books were A Little Princess and the Noel Streatfield Ballet Shoes and related books. (Doubtless I will soon remember that actually I really loved something I've now completely forgotten about)

d) Did you have a favourite series of books?

When I was very small there were the Little Grey Rabbit books as well as the Beatrix Potter books, and although they weren't great literature there were also the Flower Fairy books with their lovely illustrations, useful for learning to identify various plants.

Although when I was older my principal favourite was the Narnia series, I worked my way through our local library's collection of Walter Farley novels about horses, and got through a few Nancy Drews as well. Having just looked at the titles on Touchstone I don't recognize a single one, but I remember that they all had nice covers. There was also a series of Lorna Hill ballet books, Veronica At The Wells etc. Of all these books for slightly older children the only ones that I actually remember, rather than simply remember liking, were the Narnia books.

e) Which children's books and characters made the biggest impression on you?

The Pooh books - so many characters laid down that one would meet in later life
The Wind In The Willows - Mole
The Jungle Book - Mowgli (Mowgli has worn off, but he was a very important character to me when I was small, heaven only knows why)

In The Magician's Nephew there was the green place between the worlds - I have my equivalents now - and The Last Battle with the message that it didn't matter what god one worshipped, what mattered was an individual's own qualities and actions.

f) Do you still revisit them?

Yes.

g) Do you think children's books have lost their impact by being stripped of anything that might frighten a child, or do you think it is better not to include adversity?

I think it rather depends on what the frightening is. I've no direct experience of current children's books but there seems to be a trend towards giving children 'real life' stories of hardship, deprivation, and worse. It is my understanding that the tales of hardship and horrors in myths and fairytales provide a way of presenting children with things to fear but at some remove, so no, their parents are not going to send them into the forest where they might be captured by a child-eating witch, no wolf is going to eat their grandmother. Other stories would tell of real world hardship but at a historical remove, although of course many of them in their time would have been describing contemporary circumstances, such as child disease and death. Even Harry Potter stories have an element of distancing in them so that Harry being kept in a cupboard under the stairs is just part of the fantastic tale, building on a tradition of children having a hard time with step parents/guardians, rather than a realistic tale of child abuse. I think there needs to be something to challenge and unsettle children but with safety built in. Anyway, different children will be afraid of different things, one can't remove it all.

h) How important are illustrations?

I think they are very important. As a child I was put off reading some books because I didn't like the Rackham illustrations, whereas there were other books whose text I don't remember at all but which I read repeatedly just to pour over the pictures. I think in a long book, such as a Dickens, having illustrations, particularly when they are the originals, helps to make the book look less daunting and breaks it up a bit. I was surprised to discover recently that the edition of The Wind In The Willows which I had as a child had no illustrations, and I probably didn't know there were any until many years later. Now Shepherd's illustrations seem such an integral part of the book it is odd to think of having read it without them, like reading Pooh without pictures.

Even now I buy various children's books just for the illustrations.

One other comment on pictures - although of course I had lots of books with saccharine illustrations of cutesy fairies, which I loved, I also read the Edwardian Andrew Lang fairy books (The Violet Fairy Book, etc.) which had line drawings of knights and kings with beards, princesses and mermaids with breasts, and fairies as powerful beings looking much like us. It was an era when fairy tales were not seen as the sole preserve of children, and presumably this affected the illustrations. I think such illustrations affect how a child approaches the story.

192cindydavid4
Mai 22, 2017, 9:34 am

>189 Oandthegang: I'll thumb a review that is informative and well written, one that either encourages me to read the book, or explains to me why I really hated the book I just read. Whats funny is that I don't tend to notice those when I read an online review,
so indeed am not sure what purpose they serve. . So all they really do I thinki is to let the reviewer know that someone liked the review. But smetimes people are angry at an author and make it a point to put thumbs down on every review he writes so the whole thing becomes useless.
Just crazy.

Oh And btw you just click on the thumb icon either up or down.

193thorold
Mai 22, 2017, 10:41 am

>192 cindydavid4: Thumbs can be useful, sometimes, just to help you filter the list if there are dozens (or hundreds) of reviews.

With that in mind, I tend to give thumbs for reviews that either make me laugh or tell me something interesting about the book and the reviewer's reaction to it (not just "what" but also "why"). In theory I give thumbs for well-argued opinions whether or not I disagree with them, but I suspect that I'm not as neutral as I would like to be...

LT doesn't have a "thumbs down" for reviews, probably to avoid just the kind of petty war you mention. You can only toggle the thumb you've given on or off.

194cindydavid4
Mai 22, 2017, 9:11 pm

>193 thorold: I tend to give thumbs for reviews that either make me laugh or tell me something interesting about the book and the reviewer's reaction to it (not just "what" but also "why"). In theory I give thumbs for well-argued opinions whether or not I disagree with them, but I suspect that I'm not as neutral as I would like to be...

This is very well said, and that pretty much is my criteria as well. I also have given thumbs up for reviews that I disagreed with, but saw their point and they expressed it well. Sometimes I've been known to click on what else they reviewed to get an idea of what else they are reading and what they like Sometimes Im really surprised!

195SassyLassy
Modifié : Mai 25, 2017, 10:20 am




image from Enchanted Learning

QUESTION 12

a) Do you sometimes strongly identify with characters in fiction?

b) Does this make you feel uncomfortable if you don't care for a particular character with whom you identify?

c) Does it cheer you up when the character is a positive force?

d) Give us an example of a fictional character who nags at you as someone perhaps too close for comfort.

e) If d) is too revealing, try some of these and let us know which characters you are:

http://www.playbuzz.com/gretab10/which-classic-literary-character-are-you for literary characters
https://www.abebooks.com/docs/Community/Featured/LiteraryCharacterQuiz/character... for more contemporary titles
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/04/which-classical-character-are-you/ for characters from classical literature


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edited to add note of apology for the quality of the image. I couldn't sharpen it up as it was fuzzy in the original.

196Oandthegang
Mai 25, 2017, 2:16 am

>195 SassyLassy: There are some characters there I haven't heard of. I love the idea of someone identifying with Zaphod Beeblebrox! I hadn't seen the Oxford Dictionaries blog section before. Lots of fun quizzes! Will have to give some thought to the new questions.

197cindydavid4
Mai 25, 2017, 8:31 am

>195 SassyLassy: I love the idea of someone identifying with Zaphod Beeblebrox!

Yes, my thought exactly! I actually probably identified more with Ford, but Zaphod just brings it to a whole new level. Tho if I were honest, theres a lot about Arthur I identify with as well. I think perhaps Ford is my ideal, Zaphod is who I'd like to be for a few days, and Arthur is the real me.

198cindydavid4
Mai 25, 2017, 8:39 am

Well according to the ABE quiz, I am You are Galadriel from the trilogy the Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien. Recently played by Cate Blanchett in the epic movie trilogy directed by Peter Jackson, you are a strong woman and you know what you want. You are a visionary with grand ideas.
I do wonder who I'd be if I changed the answers to who I'd really like to be!

And yeah I had the same thought about Zaphod! Love it! Actually I think I related to Ford more than a bit, yet if I were honest, I related much more to poor Arthur. Zaphod I'c like to be maybe for a day or two.

199Oandthegang
Mai 25, 2017, 9:41 am

I did the classical heroes. Enormous fun opting for things I would never do in situations I will never encounter. As a male hero I am Orpheus, female Venus. (I just hope the answers are not being analysed for some purpose or other with an assumption they reflect my real choices, even though, of course, I am Venus!)

200mabith
Mai 25, 2017, 7:57 pm

I don't tend to relate hugely to fictional characters. I'm rather angry at the Buzzfeed character test you linked to since it gave me Jay Gatsby! Was given Odysseus, Penelope, and Galadriel on the others. I do like repeating Galadriel's little speech in the movie (have only read the books once), "all shall love me and despair" etc...

When I think about books/people I've most related to recently they're all memoirs. There's a pretty strong wall in my mind that keeps fiction as fiction and not really something to find myself in. I don't mind relating to flawed people, I'm pretty conscious of my flaws.

201thorold
Mai 26, 2017, 11:58 am

Those quizzes are all based on the idea of matching your personality to that of a fictional character - I think that's rather different from asking which characters you identify with. Isn't the whole point of fiction that it lets you get inside the head of someone quite different from yourself and imagine life from their point of view? Or am I just grumpy because I got Holden Cauldfield, Romeo, and Venus, none of whom I would choose to spend a weekend with, still less want to be...?

(You could obviously have a lot of fun being Venus, but I don't think it's really me, somehow...)

If I'd written the quizzes they would probably map me onto Eeyore, Bartleby, or Mr Pooter, but in real life there's a bit of me that wants to be Clarissa Dalloway or Dorothea Brooke...

202cindydavid4
Modifié : Mai 26, 2017, 7:16 pm

The ABE quiz is much better (I generally stay away from any thing buzzfeed. Too many ads appear after i venture there.)

Back to the questions:

a) Do you sometimes strongly identify with characters in fiction?

OMG yes, since I was a little girl. Definitely identified with Heide and Jane Eyre (the orphan girl , not the grown up tho that came later) As YA it was Jo of Little Women, as well as many strong woman characters in sci fi and fantasy. . Whats interesting now as an adult that I relate more to male characters than female, possibly because they are more developed,? Not sure - just know how much I identified with Ruyard Kiplings Kim, and Ash in M.M.Kay's Far pavillion

b) Does this make you feel uncomfortable if you don't care for a particular character with whom you identify?

No not at all. In fact I don't have to relate to a particular character in a book or even like them very much. But I do require that they be well rounded characters with many different facets to their emotions and morals. A good example is Olive Kitteridge - while I sympathized with her, I did not like her, but I couldn't stop reading about her (movie is very good btw)

c) Does it cheer you up when the character is a positive force?

Not particularly

d) Give us an example of a fictional character who nags at you as someone perhaps too close for comfort.

I really hated Corrections except for the first part when he is writing about the mother who collected everything and basically was a hoarder. His reactions to her were very much like mine to my own mother, I so got his frustration and embarrassment! (my mom wasn't really a hoader, but was from the depression generation so never threw anything away) but while I related to him at first, the more I got in the book, the less I liked him or the book. Not sure if its because he was someone to close for comfort, or if I just didn't care where it was going after a while.

e) If d) is too revealing, try some of these and let us know which characters you are:

203tonikat
Modifié : Mai 28, 2017, 1:10 pm

QUESTION 12

a) Do you sometimes strongly identify with characters in fiction?

Yes. (I think this is different from the quizzes btw, just did one of them, I got Jane Eyre). It's an interesting question as to identify - I've never mistaken myself for one of them nor their situation as mine - but what does identify mean. Some characters may seem very similar to me and then do things that make that less so, and vice versa. Situations characters face may also resonate with my own. Or I may just empathise with the character and or the situation faced. I'm not criticising the question, its really interesting to me. It brings up the whole question of difference and common humanity, et pluribus unum, which is a very interesting issue for me, a vital one and one which society generally seems to be messing up at the moment.

b) Does this make you feel uncomfortable if you don't care for a particular character with whom you identify?

I thought about this yesterday and thought I may be most uncomfortable when a character who I see as instinctually very different from me does something very alien to me - in recent reading the french noble in A tale of Two Cities who is so uncaring for the death of the baby under his carriage. But then I guess I wasn't identifying with them to start with, beyond always trying to see the human and there its loss. I may have had some thought of their separation from the sea of humanity and incomprehension that shows itself as seeing people as something so alien from the view of them as people -- there have been times that can be challenged in me, seeing bullying for example (very different case, but similar suddenly feeling a general hostility maybe and a mass of people as something different to usual). Resolving how that can happen in people, to make people and groups less than people seems very important, from witch hunting to ethnic cleansing to religious intolerances...I like to work at challenging it and how I would if I needed to.

There are things I feel uncomfortable about reading and do not read about, graphic violent crime for example. There may be authors I would not read due to some lack in their presentation (in my eyes). I did read Crime and Punishment in the past and probably quite regret that I did, maybe.

I'm not sure about not caring for someone's actions with whom I identify. I can't think of examples. When younger I could feel uncomfortable about identifying with female characters - not in myself, (or maybe I must have), but when amongst others reading the same thing, the need to hide this.

Maybe I've not identified completely enough with a character. oh some of Slothrop's actions in Gravity's Rainbow were very (famously) challenging. Raskolnikov too. There must be loads.

c) Does it cheer you up when the character is a positive force?

Possibly - depends on how well it is written? Cheers me more maybe if in following them it opens up something in myself and possibility.

d) Give us an example of a fictional character who nags at you as someone perhaps too close for comfort.

Elizabeth Bennett (?).

e) If d) is too revealing, try some of these and let us know which characters you are:

far too many to list, all strangely hidden from me now.

204cindydavid4
Mai 28, 2017, 5:13 pm

When I think of identifying with a character, I think of seeing parts of me in her, traits or behavior that feel very familiar. The first few pages of Atonement had me reacting favorably to the young 13 year old girl, coz that was so me - until of course she told the lie that destroyed another person's life. But I did identify with her as a younger sister, as an observant and imaginative child, and as a follower of rules

205tonikat
Mai 29, 2017, 6:43 am

Exactly cindydavid. Empathy and process. I can think/feel my way into lots of characters and situations, but its always 'as if' and as I become more aware of the 'as if' (maybe when something does seem different, that may be part of it) then maybe more distance, boundary and maybe formality come into how I see them, so my identification may vary with the same character. But at the same time all are aspects of being human and so utterly identifiable with, if I learn to, let myself, some easier than others. I don't know maybe I'm going round in circles and need to be firmer in my boundaries and similarities? Nah.

I reread Alice's adventures in wonderland last night and can identify with her too, especially her focus when surrounded by creatures that need something else.

206SassyLassy
Juin 1, 2017, 5:55 pm

New month, new page. Follow along here:
Ce sujet est poursuivi sur ***Questions for the Avid Reader: Part II.