OT: Landmark Ancient History Series

So for fans of Landmark Ancient History Series, they finally put a date to one of their forthcoming books (Caesar, upper right corner of website).
Unfortunately that date is 2017!

http://www.thelandmarkancienthistories.com/BooksandSamples.htm

I actually spoke to the publisher and one of the people doing layouts and the confirmed Polybius and the others mentioned as well... Just last week btw!

>2 jlallred2000:

That's good news. I already have the LEC 'The Gallic Wars.' Much more interested in Polybius. Also, continue to be amazed that Tacitus
gets so little love.

Very welcome news! It took me a year to find a Fine hardcover Arrian. This time I won't make the mistake of delaying a purchase.

Regarding The Gallic Wars, anyone in the UK or US interested in my Hertage copy for cheap should send me a private message. I have to let this go for shelf space reasons.

I have never heard of this series but am intrigued. Are there just 4 volumes so far?

>6 wdripp: Yes

>1 JustinTChan: Thanks for letting us know. I love that series and it reminded me that I had not yet bought the Xenophon Hellinika. I found a fine/fine 1st printing on biblio for 20 buck, so double thanks, actually.

Just received the Xenophon (along with The Work of the Dead) and Thucydides is on the way. Really enjoyed Herodotus quite a long while ago but I'm so far behind with my reading I don't know when I'll get round to these. I'll keep the story of Alexander in mind as well.

A heads-up for fans of the Landmark Ancient Histories series, The Landmark Xenophon's Anabasis is due for release on Dec 7, 2021.
https://www.amazon.com/Landmark-Xenophons-Anabasis-Xenophon/dp/030790685X

As for The Landmark Polybius, it is currently slated for 2023, although I’ve found dates on this site to be moving targets.
https://www.writersreps.com/The-Landmark-Polybius
https://www.writersreps.com/Robert-Strassler

>10 Son.of.York: thank you; hadn't yet read about Polybius. Great news.

>10 Son.of.York: goods news about Polybius. Would love a complete Livy too.

Xenophon has actually been pushed back multiple times. I pre-ordered it back in April 2020 when it was due for release around October 2020! Fingers crossed this date will stick.

>10 Son.of.York: Thank you, I was actually wondering about that just the other day. Put in my pre-order so I won't forget about it.

Good news - Anabasis is now out, I got mine last week from an aged pre-order.

>15 InVitrio: As did I. The look and feel are just like the last few Landmark releases.

>15 InVitrio: and mine is said to be coming soon! A Christmas gift for myself.

Any chance Folio Society will take on the Landmark series? I see that Easton Press released Julius Caesar, and I am saving to purchase. I would enjoy a Folio Society version of the series (The Landmark Arrian if anyone is listening!).

>18 charger02:
Easton also did the Landmark Herodotus and Thucydides several years ago. I suppose they will continue as long as there are enough buyers. None of them have been limited editions but they were rather expensive, probably because of all the illustrations, maps, and charts they had to reproduce.

>18 charger02: One can only dream. I usually wait for sales or buy in bulk but that would be an instant buy for me. I love classical history and I thought the Herodotus LE was beautiful but I couldn't convince myself of having an inferior volume with the Landmark Herodotus available. It is superior in every way with exception of pictures and binding and for readability the numerous maps on nearly every page are crucial in both understanding and enjoying the material.

>20 Joshbooks1: Completely agree. I own a paperback copy of The Landmark Julius Caesar, but I want a hardback for the home library. I am surprised that the Landmark style of wide margins for personal notes and footnotes has not gained more traction. I think, given Folio Society's history, this is an unrecognized opportunity.

There's no need for an FS edition. The Landmark editions are fine as is. The problem with the FS getting on the new books bandwagon is that they are not a sufficient step-up from a recent hardback - which has not yet had time to get damaged by re-reading - to warrant another £75.

>19 jroger1: "but they were rather expensive, probably because of all the illustrations, maps, and charts they had to reproduce"
EP didn't have to reproduce anything they just added a leather binding to the existing Landmark textblock.

>23 kdweber:
If that’s the case, then it is overpriced, and it is printed in the United States as stated on the copyright page of the trade edition. I don’t still have the trade editions of Herodotus and Thucydides to compare with Easton’s.

>24 jroger1: I have all six trade hardbacks. They were all printed in the US.

>25 kdweber:
My copy of Easton’s Thucydides is missing the line that says where it was printed and bound.

>25 kdweber: That's impressive. At this point, unless it is a more recent release, it's impossible to find a reasonably priced copy.

>27 charger02: I bought them all as they were released, usually at a discount. I was lucky to discover them at the beginning but was instantly enamored.

>27 charger02: Very true.

I made the mistake of not buying the Landmark Arrian when it first came out. Years later I had a devil of a time finding a good-condition hardcover. I did eventually happen upon one in a small second-hand bookshop near my home, for a very good price. Evidently the seller did not realize that similar volumes command prices of hundreds of dollars on abebooks.

I have all but the Anabasis in hardcover, on my shelf, looking extremely handsome grouped together. But the Anabasis worries me - I ordered back in March from Target in the US, and have now approved five delayed shipment dates. I fear that it will never arrive and I will be forced to pay a very high price to get a hardcover copy.

>30 coynedj: the Anabasis was just released last month, so it may be that Target just has not received its copies yet

Have you ever used https://www.alibris.com/ ? If you buy directly from the store they have free shipping after a certain amount and every week or so have special offers like spend 135 get 20 off or 75 10 off etc. I like it much better than amazon or abe.

Foolish me looking for the hardback version of Landmark Herodotus but did get to track down the Landmark Thucydides

>26 jroger1: Printing error? ;-)

>34 ultrarightist:
Perhaps. I think >23 kdweber: is probably correct that EP used most of the trade edition’s text block, but the copyright page is a clear exception, and it’s possible that the whole book was reprinted.

Finally got my Landmark Anabasis delivered today over here in the UK, and in hardback. It is gorgeous, a must buy.

After approving shipment delays six, seven, and eight, the sale was cancelled. So, I bought it from Amazon and it arrived today, two days after ordering.

And it looks tremendous, especially amongst its brothers on the shelf (I have the full series to date, all in hardcover).

From what I can figure this series started all the way back in 1996 with The Landmark Thucydides? The price of the hardcovers is astronomical but I suppose there are a lot of latecomers to the series, like me, driving that price up.
Got my hardcover Anabasis now though and will keep my eyes out for Polybius (interesting to see people mentioning it ITT back in 2016 and it's still TBA). The depth and detail is staggering compared to my older books that do footnotes at best and maybe 10 maps in total. These really are the definitive editions for content, if not luxurious reading.

It is a shame that hardbacks are unavailable. And if they are, they command ridiculous prices.

An FS treatment of this series would be highly desirable. Sewn binding with durable buckram covers. Even the ubiquitous Abbey Wove paper would be an improvement, although Mohawk Superfine would be even better.

>40 ultrarightist: hard agree, would be an instant purchase for me. For this series, a nice durable buckram would actually be preferable to some more expensive binding material.

These are a perfect target for FS to take on. This is the sort of thing they do best really.

Are the hardcover editions significantly better than the paperbacks? I've been eyeing a couple of titles in this series for a while and am currently leaning towards the paperbacks. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

>43 jswift81:
I have a number of the hardbacks and one paperback- The Caesar. Aside for the obvious , heavier and stiffer covers, the difference in my opinion is minimal. Of courses the publisher might make a difference, my Herodotus was published by Quercus, the Caesar by Anchor Books.

I’m missing Herodotus and Julius Caesar and was wondering on buying the paperbacks

Well, I tried and failed to attach a photo of my set in this post. But it's on my member page!

>43 jswift81: I have Thucydides and Xenophon in hardback and Caesar in paperback. I prefer the spine durability of hardbacks. These are heavy books, and I read them for school and pleasure. I hate how paperbacks get creased spines from constant use.

>46 coynedj: here you go:



For future reference, here's the code for just the embedded image (I also linked it back to your image page):

<img src="https://pics.cdn.librarything.com/picsizes/64/b0/64b0a02b39b920c636e58553041415742564944_v5.jpg" width=600 >

(Note that code is all one line, though your browser might wrap the long image address.)

Maybe one day LibraryThing will improve the user interface for adding photos to posts so that people don't need to know any HTML.

>48 abysswalker: Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Extremely helpful!

>43 jswift81: Yes and no. They don't look as nice on the shelves and their spines can get a bit out of alignment and/or look a bit broken but the text is the same and they open the same way so... if you cannot get the hardcover, the paperback is pretty much acceptable.

I just got Anabasis in hardcover and was disappointed to see it seems to be glued. I've seen people saying older releases in the series had sewn hardcovers. Is that incorrect? Can anyone with the other books in the series like Herodotus confirm if they're sewn or glued? Also, can anyone with Anabasis confirm that it's glued and not sewn, I may be mistaken.

>52 Silver-Books:

All glued.

>52 Silver-Books: I've seen people saying older releases in the series had sewn hardcovers.

So have I. Here is an excerpt from an Amazon reviewer for The Landmark Arrian: The Campaigns of Alexander, Hardcover 2010.

"I only write to lament the declining quality of the book itself compared to previous hardcover versions of Landmark volumes (Thucydides and Herodotus--I haven't seen the Xenophon yet). This book is a hard-paper (not cloth), perfect bound (not stitched) book. The Thucydides and Herodotus volumes were true "hardback"--stitched binding with cloth boards. It's a pity that publishers can apparently get away with putting great books in inferior packages these days and still charge the same amount. As one who cares about the physical quality of a book as well as its contents, it was a disappointment."

>52 Silver-Books: That’s the reason I opted for the paperback. Glued hardcovers are my last resort, if no other option is available. I only own The Histories as of now.

>54 mr.philistine: I Don't know if old copies were different, but I also just got the Landmark Thucydides hardcover since it's still being sold. My copy arrived completely destroyed during shipping. Looking through it I couldn't tell if it was sewn or not. It had signatures, which I don't think the anabasis had. I took the opportunity to tear it apart since it was already destroyed during shipping. Unfortunately I didn't see any thread holding the signatures together, just glue. So either people were mistaken about the Landmark Thucydides (and Herodotus?) being sewn, or the current copies of Thucydides have dropped in quality compared to how they were originally being made.

Edit: I just saw a photo of someone's Landmark Thucydides without the dust jacket and the spine looks like a different color and maybe a different material. So it might be that only current copies have dropped in quality and are glued now instead of sewn. Guess that's how the series is going to be going forward. Pretty disappointing.

I don't remember nor do I really care if it's glued or sewn but aren't some of you being a little too critical? The content is better than anything you can get, all of the books are huge, and for around $30 to me is a steal. Folios Cats Cradle, nearly a novella, is $70 to put things in perspective.

>57 Joshbooks1:
I’m not a bookbinder nor have I studied the craft, but the glue used by today’s publishers must be vastly superior to that formerly used. I remember hardcover textbooks from the 1960s (yes, I’m old) that fell apart after opening them just once or only a few times. It has been a long time since I’ve seen anything like that even in a paperback. Perhaps they can be abused by bending them all the way back multiple times, but why would anyone do that?

I’m with you that the content trumps everything else, and no other ancient history series that I know of can compare to the Landmarks.

>57 Joshbooks1: >58 jroger1: But surely the superb contents are worthy of a better quality, stronger binding? A glued binding won't be as durable as a proper Smyth-sewn binding.

>59 cronshaw:
Naturally, I would prefer sewn bindings and the other niceties of fine books, but sometimes one has to make compromises. I can’t speak from experience regarding the durability question. Glue might dry out and begin cracking after 25 or 50 or 100 years, or the silverfish might find it to be a tasty treat, but it isn’t a deal breaker for me.

>59 cronshaw: I dunno, I've read all of them except xenophon, whom I never liked, and never had a problem. I guess their market is different and maybe not up to par with people on this forum but for a large $30 hardcover I couldn't be happier and find it a bargain.

I'd have hoped that the publisher would stretch to a decent Smyth-sewn binding for the hardback edition while perhaps issuing a glued 'perfect' binding for the paperback, allowing some readers to pay more for a stronger binding while offering others affordability for the same text.

Someone should make a list of the volumes in the series on which are glued and which are sewn and both hardback and paperback

I wish they'd re release the Landmark Herodotus and Thucydides Easton press editions

These Landmarks are begging for the FS treatment. I would love to see it.

>57 Joshbooks1: "The content is better than anything you can get"

As cronshaw said, that's all the more reason it deservers a binding that will preserve it for a long time. So it can be referenced or read multiple times.

My hardcover copy of Xenophon that I just got looks like the covers/endpapers are starting to separate from the text block, straight from the factory/store.

For now I see the Landmark series as the best way to read these histories, which is why I wanted a high quality binding that would stand the test of time better than a glued book. Hopefully some publisher in the future will print these books with better bindings. Maybe Easton will bring the ones they did back one day. Or maybe Folio would make their own versions.

>57 Joshbooks1: "... a little too critical?"

If it is for the content alone, I am generally fine with free ebooks checked out from a library (either public or academic), while resorting in the rare case to DRM-crippled formats when necessary (Kindle, etc.). Saves money and space. Additionally, full-text search is nice (though somewhat counterbalanced by lack of 2-up spreads). This is assuming there is no higher-quality physical option, of course.

If I am going to buy a physical book that will consume shelf space and shipping resources now, I want something above some basic quality threshold. For me, this basic quality threshold is at least stitched binding and acid-free paper.

Everyman's Library is basically the floor in terms of quality that is "worth it" to me for justifying a physical book, with some rare exceptions.

It is true that current book glue can be a bit more robust now than in the past (presumably there have been some innovations in the chemistry and technique), but a glued binding still feels cheap, will not open comfortably, and will not last compared to stitching. Finally, one won't really know whether the glue job and so forth is really robust until a few years down the line.

>65 L.Bloom: Same. It would be amazing. Imagine if they used fold out maps and full color illustrations...

>66 Silver-Books: Is there a way to contact Robert Strassler? Maybe he could ask for EP to do a limited second run or approach FS

>26 jroger1: Do you have Thucydides and Herodotus? I'll give you $750 for them both.

>70 MrLuck:
Thanks, but I never sell my books. Sometimes I give them away, but the EP Landmarks will be mine forever.

>67 abysswalker: Yes, but their audience probably isn't as picky as it is here. I would certainly pay extra if they added better features, but for $30 it's a bargain in my opinion. I'm not business savy but I'm not sure how many people would buy these hardcover editions at the $50-75 range - especially for Xenophon. I own every hardcover edition and have not come across any problems.

I own quite a few everyman's editions but they have their own problems like thin pages, very few if any maps, and average binding but as with them you get what you pay for and I find the $20-30 range quite good, as well as LOA. To each their own but I'd rather buy Landmark and other books that are not as nice as Folio but much more affordable. Plus, the direction over the past few years there is a slim likelihood folio will publish the volumes that I'd like anyway. To put it in perspective you can buy a beautiful boxed set of Vonneguts complete works from LOA (3000+ pages) or buy a 200ish page Cats Cradle from Folio for a similar price, at least here in the US.

I have first edition hardbacks of all the Landmark books published so far, and I can say that the binding and paper are absolutely fine. The books lie open well and are a pleasure to handle. In some ways I prefer the paper used over Abbey Wove, especially as it is a more eye-friendly off-white. Helpfully, it is also a slightly lighter stock, so that Hellenika is about the same thickness as the FS's George Orwell: A life in letters, despite being a hundred pages longer. As to the glue, I remember many years ago querying the decision by the bindery at my university to perfect bind my thesis. I was told that it would be fine as they were using a high-quality German glue. Several decades later it is like new, whereas the glue on all my 1980s era Paladin Press paperbacks has long since crumbled and turned to dust. While, like the majority of others here, I would have prefered stitched binding, I would be sorry to see any Devotees put off what is an outstanding and durably constructed series.

>73 DivinaCommedia: They really are amazing books...

I wonder if anyone has Robert Strasslers email. We could maybe see if he would be interested in contacting FS or even EP

>73 DivinaCommedia:

It's all about the glue quality, you're right. I've had glued hardcovers fall apart within a few years and others last for 20+ so who knows...maybe email Landmark and see what kind of glue they use?

>76 MobyRichard: if someone has landmarks email please let me know.

>77 MrLuck:

I don't see it on the website. It's possible the Landmark team doesn't even know, so I assume you'd have to get in touch with them, find out who the binder is and then get in touch with the binder.

>76 MobyRichard: do you have the Easton press copies?

>79 MrLuck:

No, I had a couple of the trade editions. Actually sold them a while ago.

>80 MobyRichard: 😢 Only GOBOGIE seems to have some he'd be willing to sell and I haven't seen him online since late last month :(

Hopefully I'll find these.

I have but four, presently.



All well used having taught classes with them. I have found the series to be an excellent resource.

Found an interesting page while googling;
THE LANDMARK POLYBIUS: The Federation and Conquest of the Greek States (Pantheon, 2023)
From: https://www.writersreps.com/Robert-Strassler

Seems like confirmation and also suggests it would not be split into multiple volumes like some had thought.

>83 A.Godhelm: I see a book order in my future!

There’s a very small window in which one can acquire the trade hardback.

>85 kdweber: Why do you say that? I see that the Xenophon (2021) is still available very cheaply and the Thucydides (2008) is still available at MSRP.

Any insights on why the Thucydides hardback is still in print, while others are not?

>83 A.Godhelm: Not yet on amazon for pre-ordering

>88 Macumbeira: Looks like it's just the note on the author's personal representation page, so I think I spotted an unintentional leak. Could be scheduled for any point during 2023 though, even Q4.

>89 A.Godhelm: For the previous Landmark, I pre-ordered a year in advance. Probably they had issues with Covid to meet their deadlines.
But it is worth the wait. These are absolutely brilliant editions.

I will say that springing for the hardcover is worth it with these. I have a paperback copy of the Herodotus and due to the dimensions of the thing it is awkward and floppy. The hardcover Landmarks I own are much easier to hold/read.

I've been keeping an eye on the writer's rep page and the section forthcoming titles and it sadly updated the release date to March 2024. Since it includes a month instead of just a year, I assume the date is more definitive than before though.

https://www.writersreps.com/forthcoming.aspx

>92 A.Godhelm: thank you, I check Amazon every few weeks so as to not miss the announcement.

>92 A.Godhelm: Thanks, I keep an eye on it too

https://www.writersreps.com/The-Landmark-Polybius

Polybius seems to be postponed till 2026

TWO more years? Geez man. Must have been a hassle putting it together.
I guess I can't be too mad since they never announced it and this is just spying on preliminary information but still.

A quick Google search indicates that Robert B. Strassler is 87. Will he even make it to 2026? I hope he's named a successor to ensure that whatever books are currently in the pipeline actually see the light of day should mortality soon come knocking on his door.

Health is often a reason an announced series isn’t completed. A similar issue may be at work in Robert Caro’s Lyndon Johnson series and in OUP’s American History series.