American Science Fiction volume 2 and...

Two questions for DCloyce Smith:
Has a SECOND volume of American Science Fiction novels been put together (or is it in the process of being put together) yet? (Noticed that volume 278 was delayed, and started considering the possibilities).

And will there be any EXTRA material in the second Ross MacDonald volume -- stories, essays -- since only three novels are being featured? (Of course, if the inclusion of only 3 novels in the second volume means that LOA -- after seeing sales figures on the first MacDonald anthology, which certainly seemed to sell well the first 4 or 5 months -- will be publishing FOUR volumes of MacDonald fiction instead of three, then I'll definitely be less petulant when asking from now on). :)

p.s. tried to post this in future volumes and got no response -- after 5 tries!

>1 Truett:

Answers to your questions:

In July LOA editors and consultants, guided by collection editor Gary K. Wolfe, finally agreed upon the preliminary table of contents for a two-volume collection of science fiction novels from the 1960s. We are still pursuing rights negotiations for each of the titles in the collection, which will take some time, so I am unable to share the list of books selected.

The second Macdonald volume does not include any ancillary writings. Since the novels of Macdonald's middle period are, on average, a bit longer than at either end of his career, this second volume will total around 800 pages. Although the contracts have yet to be signed, the third (and final) volume of the Macdonald edition is tentatively slated to feature four novels from the last third of his career. In sum, assuming our plan for the third volume holds, the LOA edition will reprint eleven of Macdonald's eighteen Lew Archer novels.

--David

Many thanks for the updates, Mr. Smith!

Don't get me wrong: I think the 3 volume set for MacDonald is tres groovy! :) Glad the last one will revert back to four novels, since there's still so much good stuff (even after the first two volumes).

As for the second volume of SF novels, terrific! Can't wait to learn the contents (even though I know the chances are slim, since a -- technically -- short novel , novella, was included in the first set, I'm keeping fingers crossed for "A Boy and His Dog" or "The Region Between", both by Harlan Ellison, to be included).

In any case, thanks again!

A Boy and His Dog (1969) and The Region Between (1970) are both rather short to be included in anthologies of novels. Besides, I'm hoping that LOA will eventually publish at least one volume dedicated to Harlan Ellison's works.

My personal top candidates for inclusion in anthologies of 1960s science fiction novels (minus Kurt Vonnegut's already published ones--besides, he objected to being ghettoized that way) would include Ursula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness, Frank Herbert's Dune, Robert Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress and Stranger in a Strange Land, Walter M. Miller, Jr.'s A Canticle for Leibowitz, Alexei Panshin's Rite of Passage, and Jack Vance's The Dragon Masters. (My heart bleeds for all the wonderful '60s SF novels I didn't include.)

I think LeGuin is another prime candidate for LOA volumes of her own, and if that is certain, then The Left Hand of Darkness could rationally be deferred until then. I never cared much for Herbert with the wonderful exception of Dune, so including it in an anthology would make a lot of sense, as does A Canticle for Leibowitz since it was Miller's sole novel. I admit to a particular fondness for anything by Vance.

Regardless of which novels LOA chooses for inclusion in their upcoming set, I'm eagerly looking forward to learning what they are.

Podras, I knew "A Boy and His Dog" was/is listed as a novella, also known as a short novel, as is "The Region Between", so I thought they might qualify on that count (although I had no idea that the actual word count of the former is just over 18,000 words, which is slim, given that novellas these days start at around 20,000). I believe 'Region..." is a bit longer, and with all those illustrations, and that alternative typesetting, also feels longer. I've already beat the drum on a single volume (or double, triple) of LOA Ellison work. :)

As for LeGuin and LEFT HAND, for sure. I figure only one of the Heinlein titles -- if either -- would be picked (if ANY author deserved to be in the first collection (DOUBLE STAR) and the second, it's Heinlein. Although it would be tough to decide between STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND (some have cited the un-PC nature, because of a female character that blames her sex for rape; but reality has shown there are women like that even now) or (my choice, since it broke new ground stylistically, and "predicted" just a lot, including the new penchant for acronyms - tanstaafl), THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS.

Miller's CANTICLE is/should be another shoo-in. But, like Herbert's DUNE, copyright issues might prove to be a problem (families are still making money from those works, and at least one of them is still a perennial seller). And while Vance deserves inclusion, and THE DRAGON MASTERS sounds great, it's another novella (although THE BIG TIME seemed fairly short novel-ish, and it made the grade).

There are quite a few others that would work, too: Disch's CAMP CONCENTRATION; THIS IMMORTAL -Zelazny; STAND ON ZANZIBAR-Brunner; BUG JACK BARRON- Spinrad; OF MEN AND MONSTERS-Tenn; and (essential, I think) either BABEL-17 or THE EINSTEIN INTERSECTION- both by Delaney.

And A WRINKLE IN TIME by Engle would actually fit well.
Maybe even one of Silverberg's novels from the late '60s, when HE was writing best at that length: THORNS, UP THE LINE, HAWKSBILL STATION, TO LIVE AGAIN, ACROSS A BILLION YEARS, THE MASKS OF TIME or DOWNWARD TO EARTH. Or, if novellas make the grade, NIGHTWINGS, the award-winning novella or longer ('69 published) novel.

Also, it would be great to see Phil Farmer (in case a third, 1970s, volume isn't forthcoming --his novels of the '70s included the classic Riverworld volumes): either THE MAKER OF UNIVERSES, or INSIDE OUTSIDE.

But, again, there may be complicated rights issues -- not just from estate holders, but publishers as well -- that can't be worked out.

>5 Truett: The works you suggested are all excellent--those that I've read. That doesn't include A Wrinkle in Time, something I should get around to correcting given its very great and long lasting popularity. It has made every recommended reading list for young people I've seen for as long as I can remember. I considered most of the others before deciding to keep my list short--too hard to choose. John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar almost made it anyway until I recalled that he was a British author. I know that only one Heinlein novel is likely to be chosen by LOA for the '60s anthology, if any, but I couldn't decide between the two I listed.

While novels are popular, I think the finest SF work is at shorter lengths. A series of anthologies for short stories and another for intermediate lengths is recommended. LOA has already published a two volume anthology of such works (American Fantastic Tales which was slanted toward horror), but that only covers the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg of wonderful work that is yet untapped by them.

Hello again, DCloyce Smith!

Wondering if any progress has been made on the SECOND volume of Science Fiction novels for LOA, and if you can share any information about either what titles and/or which authors might or will be included.

Thanks!

>7 Truett:

We haven't yet cleared all the rights for the next two-volume set of 1960s science fiction. Copyright in this area is, to be frank, a legal swampland, and it's taking a lot longer than we anticipated to line up all the selections.

We're pulling for you, DCloyceSmith!

There is a second Miller novel, don't remember liking it.

http://www.librarything.com/work/5006500

Hey, DCloyceSmith,

Any news, yet, of "movement" on the copyright ball of thread front as regards
the second volume of Science Ficiton novels? (just curious, after reading the good news about
the Macdonald books).

Regarding the contents (about which I'm very curious, too) and our earlier discussion, once the issues are resolved I think it unlikely that Ursula K. LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness will be included in the SF of the '60s volumes (I could be wrong) given that LOA is starting to publish volumes dedicated to her works. May the series be long. :-)

Podras, "amen" to your pseudo prayer at the end, there.
I'm still crazily hoping that one of Harlan Ellison's longer pieces (novellas, AKA short novels) will find their way into the second (1960s) set --or being included in a third, should that possibility arise. THE SOUND OF A SCYTHE (1960) qualifies, and maaaybe THE REGION BETWEEN (1970) does, too.

Either way, looking forward to THAT (American Science Fiction novels of the 1960s) boxed set as well as the ongoing (I think) series of books featuring the work of sublime Ursula K. LeGuin.

>12 Podras.: & >13 Truett:

We are still nailing down the permissions for these volumes, and have a couple of outstanding issues that need to be resolved before we can announce the contents.

--David

DCloyceSmith, Thanks for the update!
Looking forward to the news, once the last of the negotiations, etc., is complete. :)

I wonder how progress is going on these volumes. Looking forward to hearing information on what will be included!

I wonder if there is any update on the status of these volumes?

>17 Dr_Flanders:

The set will be issued in Fall 2019. The contents have been finalized, and we have agreements or contracts for all the novels. We will be revealing the contents in a matter of months, but I'm not sure when just yet.

--David

>18 DCloyceSmith:

Thank you for the update. That is exciting news. It looks like Fall 2019 is going to do the same thing to my wallet that Fall 2018 is doing!

While waiting for the announcement from DCloyceSmith regarding the contents of volume 2 of American Science Fiction novels, I ran across this blog entry which seems to confirm how many novels -- eight -- will be in the second volume:
"In September 2012 the Library of America published American Science Fiction: Nine Classic Novels of the 1950s, which Wolfe edited. He also curated a companion website for the two-volume boxed set. A companion set, American Science Fiction: Eight Classic Novels of the 1960s, will appear in 2019."

Still waiting on the edge of my seat...

And just to keep the thread interesting, here's my guess at the eight titles for volume two:

A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter Miller, jr. (1960 -- first hardcover publication)
Way Station by Clifford D. Simak (1963)
Dune by Frank Herbert (1965)
This Immortal by Roger Zelazny (1965)

Babel-17 by Samuel R. Delaney (1966)
Thorns by Robert Silverberg (1967)
Camp Concentration by Thomas M. Disch (1968)
Dragonflight by Anne McCaffery (1968)

---------------------------------
And, of course, there are...
Of Men and Monsters by William Tenn... or, Stand On Zanzibar by John Brunner (both 1968)
And The Einstein Intersection by Delaney -- instead of Babel -- (1967)

Also, if the editor doesn't mind repeating one or two authors from the first volume,
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein (1961) -- can't get more "60s" than that novel -- or
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Heinlein (1966)...or....

...I know, I know.
It's a mug's game.
But it's still fun.

I'm atrocious at these guessing / prediction games, but see you've included several Hugo / Nebula award winners and that sounds like a solid approach. I'd suggest Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes (sometimes labeled a novella), The Last Castle by Jack Vance, Asimov's Fantastic Voyage, and something from Harlan Ellison as other possible choices.

Other strong candidates have already been published in LOA editions (Le Guin, PK Dick) so I assume they'd be excluded, but I know that at least one case in which that didn't happen: David Goodis has a dedicated volume of novels, and one novel separately published in a Noir collection.

>21 Truett: John Brunner's Stand On Zanzibar would grace any collection of best SF novels, but since Brunner was a British author, not American, it is unlikely that LOA would include anything by him in one of its publications.

>22 elenchus: I kind of think along the same lines. I've wondered whether the LOA might look to eventually do an entire volume of Samual R. Delaney for example, and I have wondered how much those considerations affect which novels they try to secure for a collection like this. It would be hard to exclude one great work by an author, if you think it would be difficult to secure the rights to enough of their work to fill a full volume... because I think it is likely that they have to plan for one without being able to know how a later negotiation might go.

Podras: Yeah, I should've remembered that. Made my latest guess list in a big hurry. Second time I've done that: Whoops.

Elenchus: FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON by Daniel Keyes! Forgot that the novel was published in '66 (and won the Nebula, AFTER the short story version had picked up a Hugo)! Yeah, THAT one would make a fine selection, too. Essential, I would think. I HAD included THE LAST CASTLE by Jack Vance in a first list. Guess I was even more tired than I thought (first the Brunner goof, then forgetting Vance, of all writers)! As for the book you mentioned by Asimov: it was actually a novelization of the movie (Asimov wrote so fast he managed to beat the film release), so I don't think that would be choice (but if there is a 1970s collection, I would think THE GODS THEMSELVES would make the cut -- least I hope it would). As for Ellison, I've been re-reading a lot of his work -- for obvious reasons -- of late, and I have to say that it is my considered opinion Ellison and the form of fiction known as the novel were never good friends. And of the three or four novels he actually wrote, only one or two of them were/are worth reading. Ellison's forte was short fiction: short stories, novelettes and, of course, novellas. A lot of folks here seem to think that novellas are likely not going to make the cut, and since "A Boy and His Dog" -- a HIGHLY influential novella of the '60s (just about every modern-day apocalyptic film and story harkens back to it in one way or another -- is only 18,000 words in full, it is even less likely to make the cut. But you and I can hope, 'cause Ellison is worth the inclusion. And, yeah, I noticed the Goodis thing you mentioned, so maybe Le Guin or Dick could be included. We'll see.

Dr. Flanders: Here's hoping LOA IS thinking about a Delaney volume (or two). If they leave him out of this collection on that account, groovy.

REMEMBER: there are only going to be EIGHT TITLES included in this second collection (at least according to the title above, mentioned by the editor himself. There were NINE in the first collection, so -- as with the second volume of Ross Macdonald novels -- I don't know why the decision was made to pare things down by one title (in both cases, Macdonald and the SF novels, there are plenty of great works that could be included). But it was (of course, in the case of the second volume of SF novels, if DUNE was included, it explains only four titles -- that's a BIG book).

A volume of short stories by Kuttner & Moore, especially containing the Hobgood family would be great.

Anthologies of shorter SF works within set time periods/decades would be wonderful. These could include not just short stories but novellas and novelettes. There is plenty of great stuff at those intermediate lengths out there. The two volume set American Fantastic Tales (main series volumes 196-7) is excellent, but it is skewed toward horror. That leaves out a lot of fine writing.

>25 Truett: I have mixed feelings about Asimov. He was great on concept, and I loved his works, but I don't think that most of his writing comes up to LOA standards. The one thing of his that LOA published, the short story The Immortal Bard in the Shakespeare in America volume, is basically just a gag. I doubt it would ever have been considered it if it hadn't matched the theme of the volume. That said, I think that The Gods Themselves is one of his best novels, and I happily second your suggestion for it to be considered for LOA's hoped for SF Novels of the '70s anthology. Among his shorter works, I recommend The Bicentennial Man.

As for author-dedicated volumes, definitely yes on Ellison, yes on more Shirley Jackson (one is planned according to David), at least two more volumes of Le Guin (gotta get Earthsea & The Lathe of Heaven, etc. in somehow). I'm personally lukewarm on Delaney, though his writing is very good, and I understand that his critical writing is excellent, though I haven't read any of it). Other writers that I think deserve dedicated volumes are Ray Bradbury (of course!), Robert Silverberg, and Gene Wolfe. If I recall correctly, David has said he likes Fritz Leiber, and I would very happily go along with him, too.

Thinking far ahead among currently active writers, Connie Willis is highly recommended for a dedicated volume or four. The Doomsday Book is a must have.

>26 geneg: Moore's The Black God's Kiss is included in LOA's recently released The Future is Female. It is just as good as I recall from the first time I read it loooooooong ago. Though it isn't part of LOA's main series, that volume is recommended.

>27 Podras.:

I like the idea of compiling shorter works, with word counts between the short story and the novel. LOA appears to find essays worth "saving" (and I agree), especially as essays aren't supported publicly in either the popular imagination or the current publishing / marketing outlook. Novellas / Novelettes in all manner of genre and style might be worth focusing on, as well.

>26 geneg: In 2013 there was a Kickstarter by Borderlands Press titled The Hogben Chronicles signed by Neil Gaiman, Pierce Watters and F. Paul Wilson.

>22 elenchus: The situation with David Goodis is exactly what I was pondering. Crime Novels: The American Noir of the 1950s, which included Down There by Goodis is LOA #95 and was published in 1997. David Goodis: Five Noir Novels of the 1940s and 50s is LOA #225, and was published much later in 2012.

If the Goodis volume had been published first, I'd think it would have definitely included Down There. But we have to figure that the LOA probably hadn't decided to try to put together a full Goodis volume in 1997. Perhaps there just wasn't as much interest in David Goodis in 1997, or maybe the rights situation changed during the time between the two volumes. I don't really have any insight into that.

But it seems like it would have been a gamble to not include Down There in the American Noir volume, if there wasn't some degree of probability of a Goodis volume later on. The amount of time between the publications makes me think that the full Goodis volume probably wasn't quite on the radar in 1997.

I wonder the same thing about this upcoming Science Fiction volume. Any author who is included certainly could still get an individual volume treatment in the future...I'm just curious about how the decision to include a work in an anthology style collection might affect or be affected by the potential for a full volume from a particular author in the future, especially in situations where the deals are not yet negotiated.

*I hope this doesn't read like a criticism of the way things worked out with prior volumes, by the way. I think the LOA does a heck of a job in that regard. I'm just going on about this because it seems like an interesting/impossible problem to have to try to work out. I've personally been very pleased with how the LOA has gone about adding new volumes and writers as the years go by. I just wanted to note that.

>25 Truett: I've never actually read any Delaney, though I'd like to try him out sometime in the not so distant future. If the LOA decided to announce a Delaney volume before I get around to it, then that would probably be a good place to start!

>28 elenchus: “Novellas / Novelettes in all manner of genre and style might be worth focusing on.”

I’ll give a strong echo to this idea. To me novellas are the ultimate mode of fiction, intermediate between the short stories that lack character development and novels that too often pad their stories with unnecessary verbiage. Henry James was a master at the novella
.

Folio Society published a multivolume set of mystery and suspense novellas, though heavy on British writers. The Great Books Foundation has also published many volumes containing novellas. If I were smart enough to write stories, it would be my mode of choice.

>22 elenchus:
>30 Dr_Flanders:

I've noticed that there are many cases of duplication throughout the LOA main series. For example, many poems in the 19th and 20th century anthologies are also included in single-author volumes dedicated to those poets (e.g., Whitman, Emerson, Poe, many others). Similarly, several stories in the American Fantastic Tales anthology are also included in single-author volumes. I have long assumed that a main reason (though perhaps not the only reason) for such duplication is simply the recognition that different people will buy different volumes -- some will buy an anthology, but not the single-author volumes of those included in the anthology, and vice-versa. The same reasoning goes for libraries that may not always have the entire set, but may be selective in their purchases. In short, there are works that are appropriate for inclusion both in single-author volumes and in anthologies, and those different volumes may be attractive to different audiences.

>32 euphorb: Yeah, I had noticed a few overlaps with short stories, but I didn't realize there were as many as you noted. It makes perfect sense that you would include a story like Hawthorne's Young Goodman Brown in an anthology of American Fantastic Tales, but you could not in good conscience exclude that story from a complete collection of Hawthorne's short works (I realize that the LOA published those volumes in the opposite order).

I am not aware of the LOA reprinting any long, novel length works between two volumes however, though I am not an authority on it. I do wonder if is any big overlaps among the many volumes devoted to American history? I always assumed that the LOA would not want to have a full length novel appear in two different collections, though many I assumed that wrongly. I'm really not sure if it matters, or even if the LOA has a firm rule about it. It might very well be that they work out any of these problems in the present, and make the best judgement that they can at the time. I just think that process would be an interesting one to know more about, I guess. Sort of an "It would be fun to be a fly on the wall" kind of thing, you know?

DCLOYCESMITH: I know it hasn't _quite_ been months (another 9 days and we'll technically be there, though), but...any chance of spilling the beans, showing the cards, pulling back the curtain, yet, as regards the contents of Volume 2?

Just a quick bump, in the hopes that this will remain up top, for a while, as reminder to Mr. Smith that a handful (or more) of us await the announcement of the contents of American Science Fiction Vol. 2 with bated breath (with breath unbated, even).

>35 Truett::

We will be able to announce the lineup for the science fiction collection the first week of December.

--David

Groovy!
And December (Christmas) -- as the old folks used to say (to the impatient children) -- is just around the corner.
Thanks, for that. Mr. Smith.

DCloyceSmith: I've grabbed some popcorn, and have pulled up a chair, and I am currently sitting on the edge of it. (If knew how to do it, I would insert an emoticon or small e-toon picturing a wide-eyed creature, watching and waiting whilst remaining sitting -- courteously -- in his seat). :)

Hey, it’s the first week of December somewhere right now, isn’t it?

Doc Flanders: Aaaaaaactually...yeah. Right here. Right now. (Unless, of course, the 1st of December isn't part of the first week -- in which case, I am very confused).

And, now...back to my popcorn...and my waiting (munch, munch).

David said the first week in December, not the first day in December. Come on guys--give him a break. It's Saturday. Besides, he said, "We will be able to ...", not that, "We would." ;-)

Drum roll........ ❄❄❄

Podras: air out your pantaloons, bubba. Mr. Smith knows I have nothing but "mad respect" for him and the work he does. As for my comment that brought about your and the "Docs" remarks: why would you think I am giving David a hard time by typing a comment which only shows I am excitedly awaiting any and all news about a forthcoming AOL volume? (By the by -- for you and Doc -- doh! I wasn't expecting an immediate announcement on the 1st of Dec.) :)

So that's all it is: genuine excitement. I've an idea that the LOA would genuinely be thrilled to have even more people excited about forthcoming volumes, be they science fiction, poetry, history, main-stream prose or earth science related.

>43 Truett: For what it is worth, I didn't intend my comment to be any sort of rebuke of your enthusiasm or excitement for the upcoming announcement, because I share your excitement about it. I meant it as a good-natured encouragement if anything.

I certainly don't mean to appear to be hassling Mr. Smith, either. I expect he or the LOA will announce it when they are ready and able to do so, and any comments I make aren't intended to express impatience or any sense of entitlement... I'm simply trying to express a positive interest and excitement about what projects the LOA are working on.

>43 Truett: >41 Podras.: I can't tell if you guys are serious or kidding around, really...so Truett, if my comment read as any type of criticism of your earlier post, consider this my apology, friend. And Podras, I certainly wouldn't expect Mr. Smith to make any sort of announcement or updates until he is ready. I think of what he does on these forums as a kind gesture toward people who appreciate the work that the LOA does, but I've never felt like he owes us any advance notice or explanations for anything. I enjoy that he engages in conversations and debates about things, I think it is a lot of fun when he can offer an insight or something. I hope I haven't seemed too pushy about it.

Dr. Flanders: I was hoping the choice of the word "pantaloons" or even "doh" (does anyone take Homer Simpson seriously?) or, failing that, the smiley face emoticon would signal I wasn't taking any of this too seriously. :)

For what it's worth, I appreciate your concern and consideration. But apologies aren't necessary (for either of us, I hope).
:)

And, while I don't claim to read minds, I truly do think David Cloyce Smith isn't annoyed by our exuberance over any LOA title. Book geeks are a dwindling breed, and I expect ebullient book geeks are even a bit more rare.

;-) ;-) >44 Dr_Flanders: >45 Truett: ;-) ;-)

I'm about to be thoroughly out of touch for the next few weeks, so there is a very good chance that I won't see the announcement until after it is old news for y'all. Sigh! What I'm really on pins and needles about is what the contents of the SF Novels of the 1970s (that's not a typo) will be and why it is taking so long to announcement it. I recommend a 4-volume set. And what happened to the 1940s?

>45 Truett: In regard to Homer Simpson, I think the conventional wisdom is that we are supposed to take him "seriously but not literally" unless I am getting him mixed up with someone else.

>46 Podras.: I haven't even dared to dream of a 1970s SF set yet, buddy!

The Fall list will be announced on our website either Friday or Monday, but I'd thought go ahead and post the contents of the Science Fiction volumes for you all now:

Volume 1
Poul Anderson, The High Crusade (1960)
Clifford D. Simak, Way Station (1963)
Daniel Keyes, Flowers for Algernon (1966)
Roger Zelazny, . . . And Call Me Conrad / This Immortal (1966); corrected text using original manuscript and setting copy

Volume 2
R. A. Lafferty, Past Master (1968)
Joanna Russ, Picnic on Paradise (1968)
Samuel R. Delany, Nova (1968): text corrected by the author
Jack Vance, Emphyrio (1969); restored text

Volume editor Gary K. Wolfe will have more to say about the selection process at a future date, but I confirm that, as with the 50s volumes, the collection includes no fix-ups (that is, we chose only works that were conceived as single works of fiction, not amalgamations of separately published stories). Similarly, novelizations were ruled out. In addition, some obvious candidates were not chosen because they were just too long and would take up most of an LOA volume.

Also: A couple of titles/authors were eliminated from consideration very early in the process because we knew we wouldn't be able to get the rights, but otherwise (as I've indicated before) these were the eight candidates everyone agreed upon three years ago. The delay was from the difficulty in securing the rights and our unwillingness to make substitutions.

I hope you're as pleased with the final list as we are, and we look forward to seeing these in print late next summer.

--David

David: MANY thanks for dropping by and sharing the news of the contents of American Science Fiction Volume 2. I'm as thrilled as are you & Mr. Wolfe, and I'm looking forward to that volume (and many others) publishing in the next 12 months.

All best wishes to you & yours during the holidays.

I'm especially thrilled with Lafferty and Jack Vance! But the full list looks good, and we've speculated on several of those selections.

Fun!

Thanks for letting us know. I am looking forward to getting my hands on both of those volumes.

I'm back and catching up on things. Seeing the list of the '60s SF novels for the first time, my immediate reaction is 1) our speculations/recommendations didn't come very close, and 2) the actual content is fantastic (pun intended, but sincerely meant).

Now how about recommendations for an anthology of science fiction novels of the 1970s? Lists of American SF novels published during that decade are replete with fine work. Many stand out for me after eliminating Le Guin, L'Engle, and Dick who have LOA volumes dedicated to their work (and hopefully in Le Guin's case it isn't finished yet). In no particular order, some of the best are:

Kindred by Octavia Butler

Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman

Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang by Kate Wilhelm (thanks to Shakespeare, Sonnet 73, for the title)

Dreamsnake by Vonda N. McIntyre

The Gods Themselves by Isaac Asimov (IMHO Asimov's best novel)

The Female Man by Joanna Russ

Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon

The Ophiuchi Hotline by John Varley

A Time of Changes by Robert Silverberg (or any of his many fine works in this very productive time in his career)

Gateway by Fredrick Pohl

A Choice of Gods by Clifford D. Simak

Some of the authors from the SF anthologies of the '50s and '60s are repeats here, but IMHO, the quality and relative importance of the works should be the determining factor for inclusion. Also, I'd love to see more than two volumes in the set if the content merits it.

David, is it just a pipe dream of mine that LOA will someday do an SF novels of the '70s anthology? Please say that LOA will do one if you can.

Podras: I think Simak and Russ and Pohl (even though his National Book Award winner, GATEWAY, is like Russ novel, a great pick) won't be included mainly for reasons of variety (and because there are so many terrific novels, and so many terrific writers, that other names will be picked). I also think Pynchon's book wouldn't make the cut, mainly because there's a chance that his oeuvre will one day be included on its own.

As for the rest of your guesses (for 1970s novels): brilliant! I'd probably go with TITAN as the Varley novel, though.
Not sure if they should go past that decade or not.

And whether or not the 1970s SF novels make the cut, perhaps the LOA will consider doing a series of fantasy novels volumes. There's a lot to choose from: Fritz Lieber (CONJURE WIFE), Ray Bradbury (SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES), Andre Norton and Robert E Howard. Maybe even a Frederic Prokosch novel.

And (!!), if the editors wanted to be REALLY far-reaching and inclusive, L. Frank Baum (THE WIZARD OF OZ is definitely a classic). Provided, of course, that the matter of rights doesn't rule out Baum right away.

>53 Truett: I feel the same way about Pynchon but put Gravity's Rainbow in anyway. It certainly deserves the recognition. I think Pohl's Gateway may have a chance because The Space Merchants was coauthored with Kornbluth, and Pohl in the 1970s was such a different, more mature writer than he was in the '50s. Besides, this is Gateway we are talking about.

I agree that more 20th century fantasy authors than just Lovecraft deserve recognition. I'm keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that LOA will soon announce a volume (or two?) of Le Guin's Earthsea works. Ray Bradbury deserves dedicated main-series LOA volumes including Something Wicked ..., and I think I recall that David once said he would like to see Fritz Leiber's works in the main-series. I concur. Please correct me if I'm wrong, David. Lieber's Our Lady of Darkness should be added to your suggestion, along with his entire Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser series, though they are mostly short stories. Lieber along with Howard created the sword and sorcery subgenre, and Lieber was the one who coined the term. As for Howard, I'm ambivalent about whether his writing qualifies him for LOA's main-series. Perhaps a special edition anthology that draws the best stories from across the spectrum of his writing would be good. I loved Norton, but I'm cool to preserving her work in the main-series.

Beyond that, how about Peter S. Beagle's The Last Unicorn Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon, and reaching way back, Abraham Merritt's The Ship of Ishtar?

I think all of Baum's Oz books are now in the public domain.

Good list! I'd add Larry Niven's RINGWORLD and Thomas Disch's ON WINGS OF SONG - although the fact that CAMP CONCENTRATION isn't in the '60s volumes made me hopeful that a collection of his sci-fi novels will appear some year. Those two, THE GENOCIDES, ECHO ROUND HIS BONES, and 334 add up to more than enough for one volume, and he is worthy.

Wish list for sci-fi single author volumes: Harlan Ellison, R. A. Lafferty, Delany, Leiber, Zelazny (I know that THIS IMMORTAL is great but LORD OF LIGHT is still an all-time favorite), Disch. John Varley is, I think, a much better short-story writer than novelist, although his novels are good. Ray Bradbury is an interesting case. They'll do him when rights are available, I'm sure - and they should, he's a great sentimental favorite, probably to many of us. But whenever I reread him, I think that he's a great writer to fifteen year-olds - unlike, say, Ellison, who I also loved at fifteen and can happily reread now. I read SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES to my kids a couple of years ago - which I loved, loved, loved as a teenager - and wow, the purple patches were enormous. Still a great story but you have to overlook a lot.

I'm assuming that we're going to hear that DUNE, CANTICLE FOR LIEBOWITZ, and MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS were three of the books that because of length (DUNE) and rights (the other two) weren't in the '60s volumes. Too bad about the Miller, it's a gap and won't ever fit comfortably into another series volume. Assuming that it's a rights issue, I always wonder about families or other rights holders being so short-sighted. CANTICLE is at the stage in its life as a novel where canonization in a series like this would do an infinite amount of good to its long-term prospects, and probably lose it very few paperback sales. Short-sighted.

Remember the old Ace doubles? I wonder if LOA could publish a couple of double books. Read two stories one way and two the other way.

>56 geneg: Ah, good old dos-à-dos or more properly tête-bêche binding. The Folio Society recently used this method for Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? & A Scanner Darkly.

MichaelLOA: To each his own, and all that. But...not sure why anyone would "look down their nose" at writing that is poetic (or, in your words, purple). Ray Bradbury was "afflicted" with a love of the language (I'm paraphrasing Harlan Ellison, from a review of TO THE DUST RETURNED). He was also closely tied to memories of his childhood ("Genius is nothing more or less than childhood recovered at will" -- Baudelaire). For most people, Bradbury's genius is the poetic prose that recovers memories of childhood -- the sense of wonder, the lack of cynicism.

Like many similar writers, Bradbury has been an "easy" target for critics, critic-manques, and "Professors" of literature.
(On page 43 of my paperback copy of HIDING MAN, author Tracy Daugherty whips out a short treatise on how the sounds of certain letters and words make one think of heat or "plosive" sounds. Uh-huh. Except...everyone reads with a different inner voice, and if you don't read with the inflection intended by whomever (Hemingway...the particular professor trying to get his theory into mainstream consciousness) then the supposition about why words were chosen, why this sentence was shorter than the last, etc., is just so much hot air.

Those types (critics, Lit Profs) often tend to champion minimalists. And hell, even Raymond Carver didn't purposely embrace that "school" of writing (his editor forced it on him). James Elllroy stumbled upon it when told he had to cut a book down to publishable size. I suspect Hemingway helped "create" it for reasons less connected to art (after all, a true minimalist becomes a poet) and something more aligned with his past, and perhaps even something pragmatic.

Who the hell hasn't enjoyed one or more of the following? MOBY DICK, SOPHIE'S CHOICE, HERZOG, 100 YEARS OF SOLITUDE, A GAME OF THRONES, THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP, THE STAND, WAR AND PEACE, GREAT EXPECTATIONS, SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES...?

Not a minimalist in sight. And lots and lots of "purple" prose -- not to mention interesting plot, and characters -- to be had, with each turn of the page.

I loved me some Ray Bradbury when I was a child; when I became a man, I put a way childish things. But none of those included the works of Ray Bradbury. :)

Holy SNAFUs! Not sure WHY the duplicate warning didn't come up right away (internet probs in my area made it seem as if the message wasn't posting). Apologies for the repeats.

Now that we know what will be in volume 2 of the American Science Fiction LOA collection, it's time to start wondering (hoping for) what could be included in Volume 3! (I know a LOT wasn't included in vol 2 due to copyright considerations, but...it never hurts to hope or lobby).

Here's hoping for:
TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES GO -- Philip Jose Farmer
THE GODS THEMSELVES -- Isaac Asimov
THE FOREVER WAR -- Joe Haldeman
WHERE LATE THE SWEET BIRDS SANG -- Kate Wilhelm
DREAMSNAKE -- Vonda M. McIntyre
KINDRED -- Octavia E. Butler
RENDEZVOUS WITH RAMA -- Arthur C. Clarke
A TIME OF CHANGES -- Robert Silverberg
ON WINGS OF SONG -- Thomas M. Disch

(And if anyone hasn't read much of Disch -- who wrote "THE BRAVE LITTLE TOASTER" -- check out his "supernatural" group of books sometime: THE BUSINESSMAN, THE M.D., THE PRIEST and THE SUB).

Also: I would've included something by the late, great and brilliant Gene Wolfe, but...THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS is supposedly more of a collection of novellas and PEACE is more of surrealistic mainstream novel than it is SF.
I'm hoping that a fourth volume happens so Wolfe's work -- any one of the "volumes" of "The Book of the New Sun", preferably the first, THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER -- could be included.
And, after Wolfe, the sky's the limit, although I'd be hoping for LIFE DURING WARTIME by Lucius Shepard.

Although the above list is damn near perfect -- if I do say so myself, and I do :) -- I think editor Gary K. Wolfe (a Harlan Ellison aficionado!) -- could squeeze in one more title: VENUS ON THE HALF-SHELL by Philip Jose Farmer, writing as Kilgore Trout (1975). It isn't Farmer's best work, but it's VERY good, and has a sort of Terry Gilliamesque quality about it's plot and prose. Plus, it has a connection to Kurt Vonnegut (who reluctantly allowed Farmer to turn a bit of his pretend Trout fiction into a large piece) and it inspired Douglas Adams to write THE HITCH-HIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY! (Plus, it's only 122 pages in paperback). And it would introduce new readers to an old master of SF & fantasy.

AND, it would allow him to leave out TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES --- especially if strong sales and copyright issues interfere) -- and replace it with (drumroll, please) DYING OF THE LIGHT, by George RR Martin (THAT name would definitely ring up more than a few extra sales)! "Dying" is one of Martin's earlier novels, and it IS science fiction. But it's also one of his more respected early efforts (it got a Hugo nomination).