Donald Trump: the clown prince or the triumph of the Know-Nothings
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1DinadansFriend
Is there the frightening possibility of DT actually becoming the Republican Candidate? or is he the third party choice? Or was he hired by the Democrats?
2timspalding
He could never become the actual candidate. But a third-party run could happen, and have unpredictable effects.
3southernbooklady
>1 DinadansFriend: Or was he hired by the Democrats
I think he's there to make the rest of the GOP ticket look reasonable.
I think he's there to make the rest of the GOP ticket look reasonable.
4DinadansFriend
Well, if one substitutes the resistance to Latino immigration for the anti-Catholic and Anti-irish, or anti- Catholic German stance of the "Native American Party of the 1850's, (The Know Nothing Party), I think Mr. Trump could be considered a descendant of that strain in American politics. The Native American party did put forward ex-President Millard Fillmore as their presidential candidate in 1856, but soon disappeared.
6TLCrawford
DT is a symptom of the fact that fear is a great way to get a herd moving in one direction. It might have started with the "A-bomb" commercial against Berry Goldwater. It only ran once, on a news program if I remember correctly, and was thought to be a very strong factor in his lose. The rise of cable provided political cover for removing any public service requirements from broadcast news. News was moved to the entertainment decision and "if it bleeds it leads" became the law of the land. After the "Willie Horton" ad, "they are coming to get you" became the chief motivator for some voters who are constantly told that only one candidate can save them. Although that served them well for a time it is now being used internally against members of their own party.
In 2014 John Boehnerr, whose district is so gerrymandered that their is often no opposition in the general election, faced a challenge from the right. It was unsuccessful but was very dirty and outrageous. Now we are seeing it in the national races. What is that saying, something along the lines that you reap what you sow?
In 2014 John Boehnerr, whose district is so gerrymandered that their is often no opposition in the general election, faced a challenge from the right. It was unsuccessful but was very dirty and outrageous. Now we are seeing it in the national races. What is that saying, something along the lines that you reap what you sow?
8chagonz
He may be an embarrassment to the GOP, and rational people everywhere, but the Donald as he is called in NYC has attracted support and attention because he has tapped into a strong and growing strain of fear, resentment and paranoia about the state and direction of the country. Specifically on immigration he has attracted attention only because the Washington elites of both parties have ignored the obvious solutions to our immigration standoff. From 100 foot walls to guaranteed citizenship , the complete disconnect of DC pols to a reasonable solution has allowed a demagogue like Trump to emerge. Who knows where he ends up, but it is what his candidacy says about our political elites on both sides that really matters.
9Muscogulus
>8 chagonz:
Trump's success marks the failure of the Republican Party's efforts to manage its populist right wing. In the '90s they had Pat Buchanan to pose as the radical fire-eater who, no matter how hot his rhetoric during the primaries, could always be counted on to steer his followers to support the designated nominee when the time came. I always thought it was amusing that Buchanan, one of the two or three last men to abandon Nixon, managed to remake himself as a political outsider and voice of the common (white) man.
Buchanan did the party excellent service when former Klansman David Duke mounted an independent challenge for the presidency in (I think) 1992. Duke owed no favors to the GOP and threatened to erode its support in the South while also managing to link the party to the KKK. But suddenly there was candidate Buchanan, making fiery, irresponsible statements about Duke's big issue, immigration. Overnight, Duke was elbowed aside as irrelevant and Buchanan became the troubling "insurgent" candidate.
Probably Mike Huckabee was supposed to carry that water during this election marathon. On paper he seems like the perfect amalgam of outsider credentials: Baptist minister, guitar player, Fox News talking head, actively derided by the GOP establishment when he ran in 2008. His statements about Iran, and the gummint coming to make your preacher marry queers, have been dramatically irresponsible. But the success of Trump might indicate that dissatisfied right-wing voters are not buying Huckabee's act.
I'm generally averse to conspiracy theories, but the U.S. presidential election is the most overmanaged, undemocratic election this side of the Central African Republic.
Trump's success marks the failure of the Republican Party's efforts to manage its populist right wing. In the '90s they had Pat Buchanan to pose as the radical fire-eater who, no matter how hot his rhetoric during the primaries, could always be counted on to steer his followers to support the designated nominee when the time came. I always thought it was amusing that Buchanan, one of the two or three last men to abandon Nixon, managed to remake himself as a political outsider and voice of the common (white) man.
Buchanan did the party excellent service when former Klansman David Duke mounted an independent challenge for the presidency in (I think) 1992. Duke owed no favors to the GOP and threatened to erode its support in the South while also managing to link the party to the KKK. But suddenly there was candidate Buchanan, making fiery, irresponsible statements about Duke's big issue, immigration. Overnight, Duke was elbowed aside as irrelevant and Buchanan became the troubling "insurgent" candidate.
Probably Mike Huckabee was supposed to carry that water during this election marathon. On paper he seems like the perfect amalgam of outsider credentials: Baptist minister, guitar player, Fox News talking head, actively derided by the GOP establishment when he ran in 2008. His statements about Iran, and the gummint coming to make your preacher marry queers, have been dramatically irresponsible. But the success of Trump might indicate that dissatisfied right-wing voters are not buying Huckabee's act.
I'm generally averse to conspiracy theories, but the U.S. presidential election is the most overmanaged, undemocratic election this side of the Central African Republic.
10DinadansFriend
>9 Muscogulus::
The Canadian General Election campaign just one day old, will repay attention if you want to watch how a tea party government will defend itself in office.
The Canadian General Election campaign just one day old, will repay attention if you want to watch how a tea party government will defend itself in office.
11JerryMmm
Trump, the demagogue :
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/politics/95000-words-many-of-them-ominous-f...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/politics/95000-words-many-of-them-ominous-f...
12DinadansFriend
Will the more centrist republicans split from what might be seen as the party of Donald Trump? Or will he run as his own party? Can someone run as a direct presidential Candidate without the backing of one of the two American parties?
13timspalding
I'm not sure which is scarier:
1. That 66% of Republicans favor Trump's Muslim ban proposal.
2. That 30% of Democrats do (with another 15% "undecided")
I have to say, though, this is a case where politicians are outperforming the people. Virtually every major party politician has come out against Trump—Cheney, Ryan and others absolutely slammed it. The people are faschist. Let's hope they never get their wishes here.
As I said elsewhere, no politician who has any truck with this can get my vote. Cruz has been conspicuously absent from the chorus of disapproval. That's terrifying—he could actually win.
1. That 66% of Republicans favor Trump's Muslim ban proposal.
2. That 30% of Democrats do (with another 15% "undecided")
I have to say, though, this is a case where politicians are outperforming the people. Virtually every major party politician has come out against Trump—Cheney, Ryan and others absolutely slammed it. The people are faschist. Let's hope they never get their wishes here.
As I said elsewhere, no politician who has any truck with this can get my vote. Cruz has been conspicuously absent from the chorus of disapproval. That's terrifying—he could actually win.
14Rood
#12 ... There are usually four or more people on the presidential ballot in the USA ... but offhand I cannot say what qualifications they have to fulfill.
15timspalding
>12 DinadansFriend:
Yes, you can run independently. Getting on the ballot is hard and expensive. But Perot did it and although I gather some states are harder to get listed in now, I suspect Trump could too.
Honestly, I can't stand people who say they're "afraid" for the country. I've never felt it was more than hyperbole—people getting worked up because of this politician or that, when checks and balances and natural partisanship make even the worst guys relatively harmless. But Trump, and the Americans who go for him, really do scare me. Give us another 9/11, or worse, and we could end up with him as President. How's that for a scary thought?
Yes, you can run independently. Getting on the ballot is hard and expensive. But Perot did it and although I gather some states are harder to get listed in now, I suspect Trump could too.
Honestly, I can't stand people who say they're "afraid" for the country. I've never felt it was more than hyperbole—people getting worked up because of this politician or that, when checks and balances and natural partisanship make even the worst guys relatively harmless. But Trump, and the Americans who go for him, really do scare me. Give us another 9/11, or worse, and we could end up with him as President. How's that for a scary thought?
16DinadansFriend
For a Canadian the fear is that a trump-like leader of the USA, facing international rejection through his lack of tactful policy, looks for a theoretical easy win against anybody, and finding that Canada has allowed 25,000 Syrian refugees into our country, imposes difficulties on your neighbour to the North on the grounds that"Canada is soft on communism, ..er....Terrorism". He might even invade. There are many countries in the world like Poland, Denmark, Chile, etc...that have been badly damaged by merely clumsy actions on the parts of the "Great" powers.
If you want to sleep more easily, Tim, you might want to read up on Mussolini, or Franco, rather than Hitler...same message, but easier on the Adrenalin system receptors.
Have you seen the facebook posting which integrates a "golden long-haired hamster crawling along into DT's hairpiece? hilarious...
If you want to sleep more easily, Tim, you might want to read up on Mussolini, or Franco, rather than Hitler...same message, but easier on the Adrenalin system receptors.
Have you seen the facebook posting which integrates a "golden long-haired hamster crawling along into DT's hairpiece? hilarious...
17TLCrawford
#15 I can give you two reasons that I am afraid for the nation.
1. That 66% of Republicans favor Trump's Muslim ban proposal.
2. That 30% of Democrats do (with another 15% "undecided")
Or is that 3? Those people vote. Sure we have gotten by for over 200 years but I keep thinking about the fact that Adolph Hitler was the last elected president of the Weimar Republic. Arne Duncan, the Secretary of Education, said in an interview that "America needs an educated workforce". He did not say "America needs an educated citizenry" which is what Jefferson or John Dewey would have said.
1. That 66% of Republicans favor Trump's Muslim ban proposal.
2. That 30% of Democrats do (with another 15% "undecided")
Or is that 3? Those people vote. Sure we have gotten by for over 200 years but I keep thinking about the fact that Adolph Hitler was the last elected president of the Weimar Republic. Arne Duncan, the Secretary of Education, said in an interview that "America needs an educated workforce". He did not say "America needs an educated citizenry" which is what Jefferson or John Dewey would have said.
18DinadansFriend
>17 TLCrawford::
a technical quibble is that Hitler was not "elected" President of the Weimar republic. The president, Hindenburg, died in office, and Adolf "Assumed" the office as his party had the largest number of seats in the Reichstag. He wasn't directly elected until he could manipulate the election.
>17 TLCrawford:: I am with you about substituting "Educated workforce" for "educated Citizenry." it does imply that the function of the population is to provide profits rather than to control and guide their country's destiny. OMG, I've agreed with Jefferson!
a technical quibble is that Hitler was not "elected" President of the Weimar republic. The president, Hindenburg, died in office, and Adolf "Assumed" the office as his party had the largest number of seats in the Reichstag. He wasn't directly elected until he could manipulate the election.
>17 TLCrawford:: I am with you about substituting "Educated workforce" for "educated Citizenry." it does imply that the function of the population is to provide profits rather than to control and guide their country's destiny. OMG, I've agreed with Jefferson!
20Urquhart
So................
In one week the Washington Post and Putin both come out for Donald Trump.
Not a bad week.
In one week the Washington Post and Putin both come out for Donald Trump.
Not a bad week.
21DinadansFriend
The WAPO says not that they are in favour of either man, but that Cruz, a very serious person, with very little entertainment value is the more dangerous of the pair. Neither man will do the USA any good on the international scene, or with the neighbours, Mexico, Cuba and Canada.
23Muscogulus
A little perspective: The election is still more than 10 months away. Despite the obsessive media coverage, most of those who will cast ballots next November have not even begun to pay attention. One of the survival skills needed in a media-saturated environment is the ability to tune out.
The WNYC radio program On the Media has issued a series of helpful "Breaking News Consumer's Handbooks." The latest one is on election polling.
TL;DR: Those polls that say "a majority of Republicans" support Trump, or "a majority" would vote for Trump "if the election were held today," actually are reporting support in the low single digits of the total electorate. The reason is that most people solicited by the pollsters refuse to respond — especially now that most polls are conducted by robots asking respondents to "push 1 for yes." Also, those who do respond to robotic polls have been shown to be much more likely to punk the poll, lying about whom they support, their own gender, and pretty much anything they are asked.
The WNYC radio program On the Media has issued a series of helpful "Breaking News Consumer's Handbooks." The latest one is on election polling.
TL;DR: Those polls that say "a majority of Republicans" support Trump, or "a majority" would vote for Trump "if the election were held today," actually are reporting support in the low single digits of the total electorate. The reason is that most people solicited by the pollsters refuse to respond — especially now that most polls are conducted by robots asking respondents to "push 1 for yes." Also, those who do respond to robotic polls have been shown to be much more likely to punk the poll, lying about whom they support, their own gender, and pretty much anything they are asked.
24Urquhart
The Know Nothing Party is constantly being referred to as context for Donald Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Rise
I would like to suggest one thing that people do not mention and which is crucial to the rise of The Donald. It is that:
1-He loves what he is doing and
2-He is Totally Confident in what he says and does.
People love people with confidence and belief in themselves. Donald however is not just confident, he is Very Confident and very wrong on many things.
Donald Rumsfeld was Very Confident. He was wrong but he was Very Confident.
Robert McNamara was Very Confident. He was wrong as he admitted at the end but he was Very Confident.
Hitler and Mussolini were Very Confident. and very wrong. Absolute faith in one's vision is contagious and breeds followers.
No one mentions this confidence aspect. For contrast check out Jeb and his 'deer caught in the headlights expression.' He is official Road Kill; I promise you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing#Rise
I would like to suggest one thing that people do not mention and which is crucial to the rise of The Donald. It is that:
1-He loves what he is doing and
2-He is Totally Confident in what he says and does.
People love people with confidence and belief in themselves. Donald however is not just confident, he is Very Confident and very wrong on many things.
Donald Rumsfeld was Very Confident. He was wrong but he was Very Confident.
Robert McNamara was Very Confident. He was wrong as he admitted at the end but he was Very Confident.
Hitler and Mussolini were Very Confident. and very wrong. Absolute faith in one's vision is contagious and breeds followers.
No one mentions this confidence aspect. For contrast check out Jeb and his 'deer caught in the headlights expression.' He is official Road Kill; I promise you.
25stellarexplorer
Brings to mind Bertrand Russell's famous "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
