Castle Of Wolfenbach by Eliza Parsons - lyzard tutoring SqueakyChu

Castle Of Wolfenbach by Eliza Parsons (1793)


    "...and when you have finished Udolpho, we will read The Italian together; and I have made out a list of ten or twelve more of the same kind for you."
    "Have you, indeed? How glad I am!---What are they all?"
    "I will read you their names directly; here they are, in my pocket-book. Castle Of Wolfenbach, Clermont, Mysterious Warnings, Necromancer Of The Black Forest, Midnight Bell, Orphan Of The Rhine, and Horrid Mysteries. Those will last us some time."
    "Yes, pretty well; but are they all horrid, are you sure they are all horrid?"
    "Yes, quite sure; for a particular friend of mine, a Miss Andrews, a sweet girl, one of the sweetest creatures in the world, has read every one of them..."

Hello, all, and welcome to the tutored read of Castle Of Wolfenbach by Eliza Parsons!

This is the latest in a series of tutored reads of so-called "Gothic novels" for myself and Madeline (SqueakyChu), undertaken as a result of Madeline's reading of Northanger Abbey, in which Jane Austen has fun with people who take their reading a little too seriously (but also pens one of literature's most famous passages in praise of the novel). So far we have read together The Castle Of Otranto by Horace Walpole, Clermont by Regina Maria Roche, and The Monk by Matthew Gregory Lewis.

The Gothic novel was a genre that was very popular in the late 18th and early 19 centuries, and a precursor of the modern horror novel. Gothic novels often focused on a young woman who was all alone in the world, who would be threatened with a variety of dangers in the course of solving (or being the catalyst for the solving of) a mystery involving identity and inheritance. The stories were generally set in France or Italy, frequently with the action taking place in an isolated castle or chateau which might have a reputation for being haunted, but would certainly be full of secret passageways and hidden staircases. Murder, abduction, blackmail and imprisonment are common occurrences in these novels.

As can be seen from the quote above, Castle Of Wolfenbach is one of the famous "horrid novels" mentioned by Jane Austen in Northanger Abbey. Until early in the 20th century it was assumed that Austen had just made up the titles, but eventually it was demonstrated that not only were these real books, but that the ones mentioned were carefully chosen by Austen to illustrate the different varieties of Gothic novel.

We should note that Eliza Parsons was the only novelist to get two books on Austen's list; she was also the author of The Mysterious Warning. Like many female authors at the time, Parsons began writing to support herself and her family after being widowed. (In fact, she had a very difficult time, losing not only her husband but three of her eight children, and with the family business being destroyed in a fire.) She published about twenty novels between 1790 and 1810, several of which had Gothic overtones.

The critics of the time didn't think much of Eliza Parsons - partly because she was not a particularly strong writer, but also because (at a time when "the novel" still had a bad reputation) she wrote to entertain rather than to "improve". Like a number of her books, Castle Of Wolfenbach was published by the notorious Minerva Press, a company specialising in Gothic and sentimental novels - which made a bundle in spite of what the critics said.

However, Castle Of Wolfenbach is somewhat different from the majority of Gothic novels - probably because it was published in 1793, a year before the novel that is usually considered the pinnacle of the genre, Ann Radcliffe's The Mysteries Of Udolpho, which became the model for most subsequent novelists. In spite of its title, Castle Of Wolfenbach is an example of the domestic-Gothic: it is set in (more or less*) contemporary society, and much of its action takes place in the city rather than a lonely spot in the mountains. However, on the basis of its plot it may certainly still be classified as a Gothic novel.

(*It was a common thing at the time for English novelists to set their novels in a mythical France where the French Revolution never happened. Sometimes they explicitly date the action as taking place decades earlier, and sometimes they don't bother.)

So as Madeline and I work through this novel, we will take notice of the ways in which it does and does not fit the usual definition of "Gothic novel".

As always, participants and lurkers are very welcome on this thread. In the tutored read threads for The Castle Of Otranto (here) and Clermont (here), I included some lengthy background material on the Gothic novel. Please feel free to access those threads and/or to ask questions here.

Our only "rule" is that no-one should ask a question or post a comment dealing with a section of the book beyond the point Madeline is up to. This novel is actually a bit tricky in this respect, as it doesn't have chapters! So since we can't note what chapter we are referring to, please include a bolded page number in any post.

Please note that Castle Of Wolfenbach is available online as a free eBook.

One thing that these readings have taught Madeline and myself is that you should never undertake a Gothic novel without a---

Character list:

Matilda Weimar - a beautiful orphan
Mr Weimar - Matilda's uncle and guardian

Victoria, Countess of Wolfenbach
The Count of Wolfenbach

Charlotte, Marchioness de Melfont - sister to the Countess of Wolfenbach
The Marquis de Melfont

The Countess De Bouville
The Count De Bouville - her son
Mademoiselle Adelaide De Bouville - her daughter

Mrs Courtney - an English widow

Mademoiselle De Fontelle - a nasty young woman
Madame le Brune - her aunt

Monsieur De Clermont - engaged to Adelaide De Bouvelle
The Marquis De Clermont - his father

Madame De Nancy
Mademoiselle De Bancre - her sister

Baron Stielberg - father to Charlotte and Victoria
The Chevalier De Montreville - in love with Victoria

Albert - servant to Matilda
Joseph - caretaker of the Castle of Wolfenbach
Bertha - Joseph's wife
Margarita - servant to Victoria
Therese - servant to Charlotte
Agatha - servant to Mr Weimar
Pierre and Jacqueline - peasants

So I think we're ready to go!

If you will be joining in this tutored read either as a participant or a lurker, please speak up and let us know.

*lurking*

Excellent! Welcome, Katherine!

LOL!...about the character list that is. An online list is not good enough for me. I need one *in* my book, plus I often have to diagram out all the characters on a character map. We'll see what happens this time. :)

Liz, you might want to invite the Gothic group here on LT to lurk as well. Your choice.

Now...I'm going to make myself a spot o' tea and sit down to begin my novel without reading the introduction!

Thanks, Liz, for doing this with me. I've missed it.

Thank you - so have I. :)

It's your tutored read, so if you would like to invite the Gothic group, please do!

Hmm... I just realised that we might have a bit of a tricky situation on our hands. You have the Valancourt Books edition, don't you? Does it have chapters? I read an electronic copy of the original novel, and that doesn't. We can work off page numbers instead of chapter numbers, except that my page numbers and yours are probably going to be different!

I know that you use quotes to indicate where you stop reading anyway, so that's okay - I'll have to be careful to do the same.

I thought you might enjoy this illustration from the original edition:

Pg 1:

Oh, yes - it's a Gothic novel, all right!

The evening was cold and tempestuous, the rain poured in torrents, and the distant thunders rolled with tremendous noise round the adjacent mountains, whilst the pale lightning added horrors to the scene...

Well, it turns out that I have no chapters. The text of my book is 200 pages long. It starts on page 3 and ends on page 203. I can tell you what percentage of the novel I've finished. Would that help?

I'm very excited to read my first Valancourt book!

Great beginning. I love the mood and the picture you posted.

I off to invite the other Gothic readers to lurk...

>#11

It's unusual for a novel of this date not to have chapters.

No, that's okay - just add page numbers to your quotes or questions; I'll be able to work out how our books translate to each other. My copy reproduces the original work and has two volumes totalling 542 pages, so my font is a bit bigger than yours. :)

Sorry, I really shouldn't be doing this, but this passage from much later in the novel made me giggle:

    Ah! thought she, where is the sorrows that can equal mine? Scarce a wretch that breaths but has some connexion, some relation to own them and sympathise in their troubles, I alone am destitute of family, or fortune; I can carry only disgrace to the arms of a husband, and am therefore an outcast---a being without any natural ties, and must despair of procuring any other protection but what charity and benevolence affords me!
    She felt the full force of these melancholy reflections...

Oh, yes - it's a Gothic novel, all right!! :)

LOL!!

I have to warn any lurkers that I move through my novels with you extremely slowly...basically poring over every word.

16: It's the journey, not the destination. I haven't the slightest interest in reading this novel myself.

---------------------------------------------------------

The story begins on page 3:

...in which a weak lady and her servant agree to spend the night on the second floor of a haunted castle

-------------------------------------------------------------

1. If this is "a German story", why do Jacqueline and Pierre have French names?

2. Jacqueline trembled..."

She trembled already?! It's only the third sentence of the novel! Oh, yeah. This is a Gothic novel.

3. How common was it for travelers to stop at night, knock on a complete stranger's door, and request a place to stay for the night?

4. "...which held the firing and his working implements."

What are/would be the firing implements?

5. ...returned with a portmantua."

What in the world is that? It sounds like a fish! :)

6. On the second page of this novel, I read...
...there is a fine old castle just by."

Oh, yes. This is a Gothic novel.

7. "...and it is haunted"

I'm so glad! Tee hee!!
Now do you know why I love to read Stephen King novels? :)

8. What are scriptions?

9. "I hope, (said the old man) she is no bad body."

I bet she is!!

10. What is provender?

Provisions?

11. "Joseph...was very silent."

I bet he recognizes the weak lady. I notice that she still remains nameless at this point of the story.

----------------------------

Ends on page 7 (2% completed) with...

"...flew down like one escaped from great danger"

-----------------------------------

> 17

Katherine, reading novels with Liz is so much fun (except* for The Trail of the Serpent - which was less fun)! :D

It was the novel, not the tutor!

My favorite "tutored read" novels were The Castle of Otranto and, probably even more, The Monk. The ending of the latter blew me away!!

And we're off and running! :)

(Just FYI, your pages 3 - 7 run from pages 7 - 17 in my edition.)

1. Good question! :)

There's very little to distinguish between nationalities in this novel (except when Parsons wants to praise the English at the expense of the French). However, it is possible that Pierre and Jacqueline are French, despite living in Germany.

3. Perhaps not as common as Gothic novelists make it seem, but not uncommon, either. Travel was hard and slow, distances were long, roads were bad, and accidents to horses or carriages always a possibility. If you got stranded in the middle of nowhere you didn't have much choice but to ask for shelter, and most people would give it. (Though as Pierre points out, they're okay because they've got nothing to steal.)

There is a reason why these two people are in the middle of nowhere, which we will learn presently...

4. 'Firing' would be firewood; 'working implements' is just a fancy way of saying tools.

5. More commonly spelled 'portmanteau' - a trunk or large suitcase.

8. Inscription; in this context, it may just mean writing or it may mean engraving (probably the latter, since Jacqueline is talking about writing on a window).

9. Wait and see...

10. Food; provisions.

2, 6, 7 Oh, yes - it's a Gothic novel, all right!! :)

Re 3. My question is why people are always out traveling at night in bad weather? Why don't they travel during the day in good weather? Why don't they plan their journeys? Don't they know where inns are? I can see if it is an emergency, but these characters are always setting out in their carriages and on horseback when it's dark and stormy. They are always headed into the woods or towards a haunted castle. Wouldn't peasants with little or nothing to offer be annoyed at these constant intrusions? They barely have enough to feed themselves.

These traveling characters just need to stay home. :)

Uhhhh... In can only say that in this case, they had a very good reason. :)

Besides, you don't take into account that according to the Gothic novel, the whole of Europe is covered with forests and mountains, that tremendous storms break out about every ten minutes, and that everyone lives in either an isolated castle or a humble cottage.

A couple of things as we go forward:

(i) This novel has a multiplicity of Counts and Countesses, who are usually just called "the Count" and "the Countess", and you really need to pay attention to be sure of which one is being referred to at any given time.

(ii) Although there are a good sprinkling of melancholy-s, I think if we wanted to do a tally of anything this time, it would need to be on the number of times Our Heroine "burst into a flood of tears"... :)

(iii) On the other hand:

The Count, who had observed her emotions, her silence and melancholy air, felt himself much concerned for the unfortunare girl; he thought her more lovely, more interesting than ever: the soft melancholy which pervaded her features could not fail of touching a susceptible heart...

Heh, heh, heh...

    She clasped her hands and burst into tears. "O, tell me---tell me all, for I am prepared to hear a tale of horror."
    "Horror, indeed!" (repeated he)...

> 23

(i) Okay. I'll keep a special tally of Counts and Countesses.

(ii) I'm ready to count tears.

(iii) Well, maybe melancholy isn't so bad after all...

> 24

:)

Joining in as well. I'm doing an Open University course on the Nineteenth Century Novel, and one of the themes is looking at genre (including gothic). We start with Northanger Abbey and don't include any 'traditional' gothic novels so it'll be useful to read one.

You also might find it fun to follow Liz's tutored read thread of Northhanger Abbey as you do your Coursera course.

Chiming in slightly late to see I will be reading along at some point this month too and I am looking forward to it.

#2 As usual, an excellent background post, Liz, thank you.

#18 She trembled already?! It's only the third sentence of the novel! Oh, yeah. This is a Gothic novel. :-D

#28 You also might find it fun to follow Liz's tutored read thread of Northhanger Abbey - I've had a look at that previously - very useful. It isn't a Coursera course by the way, the Open University is a distance learning university in the UK, which means when I've finished (hopefully in two and a half years time) I will get a proper degree in English literature. And we do get face to face tutorials as well as all the course materials which is handy.

> 30

I will get a proper degree in English literature.

I didn't realize this. All the better!

Hi, Rhian and Heather - lovely to have you here!

I hope you enjoy your first Gothic, Rhian. I also hope you're expecting entertainment rather than great literature. :)

As I intimated up above, this isn't a completely traditional Gothic novel - or rather, what would become traditional - but it's got the plot if not the setting. It's also shorter than these things usually are so it doesn't require the same level of commitment as Udolpho. Heather can tell you all about that!

Can I ask what format of the book the two of you will be reading? The lack of chapters is tricky. It would be helpful if, when posting any comment, you could include a short quote, so that we can stay orientated.

#32 Can I ask what format of the book the two of you will be reading?

I have an ebook with no page numbers only percentages.

> 33

only percentages.

It's a good thing that I know my math so I can do percentages despite the fact that my book has real pages. :P

Starting on page 7 (2%)

...in which the visiting lady identifies herself

-----------------------

1. Counting "burst into tears" - 1

2. Can we count "trembling"? :)

3. Albert who was likewise far advanced in years, above sixty...

What?!! I never thought of myself as "far advanced in years"!

4. I find it interesting that, in this case, it's the woman of the pair who is unafraid of the ghosts. However, why did the narrator then add...she could not help trembling? Why was she trembling if she was not afraid? If she was afraid, why did she start looking around the haunting place of ghosts?

5. ...was said the child died.

Now you know I no longer believe in anything that "was said" to have happened. :)

6. ...howsomever they said he was very jealous.

What kind of word is that?! What does it mean?

7. She saw on the other side of the gallery, two other doors, these, on trial, she found locked.

I was sure real people were living behind those doors...and I was right! They were probably making all that racket to be able to live rent free in the castle.

8. I saw "trembled" and "melancholy"!

9. ...repugnance to his caresses

Why was the "uncle" trying to caress Matilda?

10. I was displeased with my own reflections and resolved to behave better to him the following day.

When the uncle returned, why was Matilda cold toward him? Was he trying to force her to become educated?

11. Obviously the "uncle" was not a real uncle, but I'll wait and see who he really is.

----------------

Ending on page 13 (5%) with...

I was displeased with my own reflections and resolved to behave better to him the following day.

We're back!

Everyone suffering withdrawal, are they?? :)

____________________________________________

3. 220 years ago, you would have. :)

4. You can not believe in ghosts but still get creeped out by a ghost story...particularly if you're alone in a strange house at night and hearing noises...

5. :)

6. It's an archaic form of 'however'.

7. It's a bit more complicated than that!

8. Well, of course you did...

9. & 10. 'Caress' is as slightly ambiguous word here, but we get the feeling that the hugs and kisses that Matilda didn't mind when she was a little girl are striking her as inappropriate now that she's grown up. As for 'uncle', he's obviously got some very un-uncle-y feelings going on...

Parsons is treading on delicate ground here: a girl was supposed to be completely sexually ignorant, and yet she needs Matilda to grasp that her uncle now poses a threat to her; so she has her react to him 'involuntarily'; she is protected by her instincts, not her knowledge.

We learn a bit more about the 'education' he is trying to give her in the next few pages.

Heh, fun. As long as you proceed at this leisurely pace I can keep up, a few pages during lunch.

> 37

Trust me. I'll go no faster! :)

I could, but my bosswife would object..

-------------------------------------
Starts at p. 13 (5%)

...in which Matilda overhears a plot

---------------------------------------

1. I tell you, Sir, there is no other way.

Here we have the protagonist overhearing a plot. This seems familiar! I'm getting to know what to expect. You are a good tutor, Liz. :)

2. ...a copious flood of tears

:)

3. ...only a sick head-ach

Women have been using this excuse for ages!

4. I fear you have been reading too much.

*insulted*

There is no such thing! However, did men frown upon women reading too much for fear they might become more educated in worldly ways?

5. We rode off...

On one horse, two horses, or by carriage?

6. The mistress of the house humanely offered me a bed for the night or two.

So here again we have strangers appearing suddenly in the night and thrusting their presence upon a person who never knew they were coming. I, myself, like "drop-ins", but only if I know them. :)

7. I might procure a living by my talents.

Which were...?

8. The storm came on...

:)

9. We were conducted to this castle

Quite by accident, of course, they came upon a haunted castle. :)

10. ...determination to explore every apartment in the castle

What gives Matilda the right to go snooping around in someone else's abode?

-------------------------------

Other related questions:

11. Did 18th and 19 century readers (this book was first published in 1793) have much difficulty with the huge cast of characters in this and other novels, or was such a large cast of characters present in most novels so that readers never gave this issue a second thought?
-------------------------------

Other related comments:

12. I see that, of the books we've read together, the old Gothic novels are my books of choice. I'm already loving this one. If you take any otherwise boring story and spice it up with hauntings and storms, tremblings, and mystery, all the while being sure it is well written, you've got a great novel. :)
----------------------------------

Ends on p. 16 (6.5%) with...

...determination to explore every apartment in the castle
----------------------------------

Did they actually talk in such grand sentences?

Commenting on the section 'in which Matilda overhears a plot'.

One impression I have got on reading one or two other early novels is that there frequently is this type of long explanation somewhere along the way giving the back history of the characters. Is this a feature of novels of this date or gothic novels in particular?

>>#37

Welcome, Jerry - thank you for joining us! I hope you enjoy it. :)

>>#40

4. In fact, 'uncle' is doing the opposite - trying to give Miranda a corrupting education, by showing her nude drawings and giving her racy French novels. It was a given at the time that simply knowing about such things would ruin a girl's morals and character. (You see the same sort of argument today in people who are against sex education.)

Girls who had access to a good library might educate themselves by reading if they were allowed to, and occasionally sisters were allowed to sit in on their brothers' lessons, but generally, young women at the time did not usually receive a thorough education. Their lessons would be focused on externals like deportment and dancing, plus 'accomplishments' like music and drawing.

5. On one horse: "...'tis a long journey, but never fear, you can ride behind me, as you have often done in sport."

6. The rules of hospitality were very different at the time.

7. Probably needlework; that was another standard 'accomplishment' for girls. Fancy embroidery sold for quite a good sum.

9. Haunted castles were a dime a dozen! :)

10. Bertha gives her permission to look around, so it isn't really snooping. Matilda knows there is something going on, though she's quite sure it isn't ghosts! She is, however, worried that it may be something that precludes her staying at the castle, like a young man living under the same roof.

11. I've just got through answering more on less the same question on the Trollope thread! :)

Reading was a major form of light entertainment and people (middle- and upper-class people, anyway) had a lot of leisure time to devote to it, so it is unlikely a large cast of characters would have posed a problem.

12. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. :)

>>#41

Good question! - and of course we can't really know. However, from what we might call 'recorded speech', like letters and published sermons and reports on parliamentary speeches, we can tell that language generally was a lot more elaborate at the time. On the other hand, I doubt that the kind of over-emotional talk that appears in books was common in everyday life, but rather was a literary convention associated with sentimental novels like this.

>>#42

It is quite common in novels of the time generally, Rhian, which often had side-plots wherein a new character would give a lengthy history of him or herself; but particularly so in novels like this where there is usually a central mystery and the plot depends on the revelation of secrets and people not knowing who they can trust. Eventually there comes an explanation. As I've mentioned to Madeline before, I know of a Gothic novel where the 'explanation' takes up a volume and a half! :)

People 'overhearing' is also a frequent feature of these books. In a novel like this we are probably supposed to take it as Providence protecting the innocent Matilda. However, the reality is that that sort of thing did happen a lot more than we might imagine these days, because lighting was so very poor! Rooms were large and very dark and you couldn't always tell if someone was nearby, so an overheard conversation was a fairly common thing.

Well, I wasn't going to take part in this one but, having read this thread, I've downloaded the book to my kindle and started reading!

Whoo-hoo!! :D

> 47

You'll enjoy this. It's light fun...but you'll learn a lot.

#32 I'll be reading the Valancourt ebook - not sure if there are page numbers in that or not.

I'm enjoying the questions and answers so far :-)

>>#50

There aren't, but your numbers are the same as Madeline's, so that makes it a little easier.

A silly question maybe...back on page 6 of the Valancourt edition, Bertha prepared some eggs and fruit for her {Matilda's} supper; - that sounds an odd meal to me. Should it be understood as something like an egg salad, do you think, or is there a tradition of egg-and-fruit meals in Franco-German cuisine?

Welcome, Andrew! Thank you for joining us.

Please don't ever hesitate to ask any question, even if you feel it's silly. If these threads have taught me anything, it's that if one person asks a question, someone else has been wondering. :)

I think that would be two separate meal components - boiled eggs and a bowl of fruit - and was probably all that Bertha had around the house to serve. (The servants would certainly have chickens for eggs, and perhaps some fruit trees along with the vegetable garden.)

-------------------

Begins at page 16 (6.5%)

...in which Matilda finds Joseph in a surprising place

-------------------

1. Albert, wiping his eyes...

Why is Albert crying? Is he scared for Matilda? It seems strange that a man is crying - instead of a woman.

2. Help needed with vocabulary:

a. Whilst these two worthy creatures were expatiating upon her praise...

b. ...being plagued with the fopperies of an old coquet

3. What is a "high coloured lady"?

4. I'm not sure I understand what the Lady of the Castle is saying. Does she want a traveling companion for her sister, but one who is neither too young nor too old?

5. my melancholy story...

:)

-------------------------------

ends with...
to alarm every stranger that came to the castle

page 22 (9.5%)

---------------------------------

1. In a novel like this, the good people cry all the time, regardless of age and sex.

2a. Discussing at length or in detail.

2b. 'Fopperies' indicates a preoccuption with dress or being fashionable; a 'coquet' is a woman who flirts a lot. (In other words, the woman in question will not act her age.)

3. I think that means she's wearing a lot of make-up, too. :)

4. The Lady is being kind by trying to convince Matilda that she is exactly what's needed, so she won't have qualms about accepting the arrangement.

5. :D

> 53

Many thanks for the clarification; I've now got to page 24, ...dinner was served up, not in state or profusion indeed, but good wild fowls, eggs, salads, and fruit. - so there's the evidence that salad and fruit weren't interchangeable terms!

> 54,55

The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines high colour as "a flushed or florid complexion".

...probably from too much tight-lacing. :)

Thanks!

I have to skip tonight's read, but I'll be back tomorrow.

No worries!

--------------------

begins on page 22 (9.5%)

...in which a woman ends up dead!

-----------------------

1. ...for I heard some horses galloping by the door, and I thought I heard this lady screaming most piteously.

I think this is significant.

2. ...tears burst from his aged eyes.

Crying again...

3. There is a private passage underground...

Yep! This is a Gothic novel.

4. Matilda retired with trembling lips...

More trembling...

5. ...her pockets were left behind

Are those purses or bags?

6. ...exprest her gratitude for his kindness in such terms as brought tears to his eyes

Again?! Get that man a handkerchief!

7. Explain:

"...how much superior are thy sentiments to those of better understanding and cultivated talents, when their minds are depraved by the indulgence of irregular passions!"

8. It was fastened on the inside

I believe someone is either living or hiding here.

9. I found a large knife, all over blood

Now it gets bloody...

10. ...the lady dead, all over blood

...and now...murder!

-------------

ends with:

the lady dead, by a wound in her throat

ends with page 26 (11.5%)

1. I think you might be right! :)

5 At this time, a 'pocket' was a cloth bag with a drawstring opening. They were not attached to women's clothing, but worn tied around the waist under the skirt. There would be a slit in the material of the skirt to allow the woman to reach a hand in.

7. A sentiment commonly found in novels of this period is that civilisation was a corrupting influence, and that living in society makes people selfish, hard-hearted, immoral and given to indulging their 'passions'. People living in the country were supposed to be morally superior, and people who were both country folk and uneducated were supposed to be in "a state of nature" - i.e. 'naturally' good, kind generous, unselfish... Matilda is suggesting that Albert is superior to people who are socially his superiors because he is unspoilt.

8. Or that something is hidden there...

9. & 10. EEEEK!!!!

2., 3., 4., 6. You can understand why this gets classified as a Gothic novel even though some of the later plot and (in particular) the setting don't follow the usual routine.

BTW, you missed trembling with apprehension... :D

> 61

1. LOL!

5a. Is the pocket under the skirt as protection for the contents or so it would not detract from the "beauty" of the skirt?

5b. What's to keep someone else from reaching into that slit in the skirt? :)

7. I like that thought. Rural people do live simpler lives, uncluttered by material goods that interfere with their instinctual responses. At least, they used to. Radio, television, and now the internet has changed all that.

8. You were right! :)

9. :)

10. :D

Also:

2.3.4.6.

a. even though some of the later plot and (in particular) the setting don't follow the usual routine.

The setting ...because it was in Germany?

Please point out other non-conformities to the Gothic novel as we move along through this novel. Thanks!

b. BTW, you missed trembling with apprehension

:(

5a. Protection and convenience. Those pockets were like our pockets, for carrying small items around; they just weren't part of the clothing.

5b. What's to keep someone else from reaching into that slit in the skirt? :)

They'd have to find it first - the skirts were rather voluminous! :)

The setting ...because it was in Germany?

No, rather that a lot of this book takes place in cities, among crowds of people, and involves a recognisably "normal" life, into which the Gothic-y bits explode from time to time.

(I'm reading the pdf (107p) from manybooks.net)

miss Parsons sure likes to use the semicolon...

(promted by the bit where she finds the room in disorder)

Those sentences, with comma's, and semicolons; are hard to vocalize.

1) incommoded

2) by and bye - just something I noticed. Have heard it, not readily remember seeing it in print, so didn't know it was 2 different words.

3) where her dinner was served up, not in state or profusion indeed, but good wild fowls, eggs, salads, and fruit.

4) desirous

5) we may return this way, for I own I should like to see it

6) When did the past tense in English switch from 'stopt' and 'exprest' to 'stopped' and 'expressed' ?
There are other past tense verbs that do have the '-ed' end.

7) 'Good creature!' exclaimed Matilda, 'heaven has blest you with an honest feeling heart; how much superior are thy sentiments to those of better understanding and cultivated talents, when their minds are depraved by the indulgence of irregular passions!'

This sounds like it would mean more to a contemporary reader than to me. It seems overly stuffy, even for this book.

eta: I see you answered the similar q by SqueakyChu.

Punctuation wasn't standardised until well into the 19th century and these comma- and semi-colon-heavy passages were very commonly found in writing of this time. In fact, Mrs Parsons represents a toning-down of this tendency. I recently blogged about a novel from 1772, The Hermitage, in which I swear there are sentences with more colons, semi-colons, commas and exclamation marks than there are letters.

In the second half of the 18th century, English literature was dominated by sentimental novels full of overwrought emotion and high-flown language. Whether or not people actually spoke (and felt) like this is beside the point; it's how they wrote! :)

At the beginning of the 19th century we see writers making fun of this kind of thing in books like The Heroine by Eaton Stannard Barrett, Thomas Love Peacock's Headlong Hall and Nightmare Abbey, and of course Austen's Northanger Abbey. Yet the style persisted into the 1820s.

1. Inconvenienced

2. Yes, the expression is correctly written "by the bye" - a bye was a path off the main road, so strictly it means a deviation, or taking a longer way of getting somewhere, while in speech it means to bring in a subject only tangentially related to what was being discussed.

3. "Not in state or profusion" - it was a simple meal, simply served. "State" here means formal, or elaborate; profusion means there was a lot of something.

4. Desiring, in the sense of wanting something to happen, or to do something.

5. Admit

6. That also was not standardised until into the 19th century. I couldn't give you a date, but if you read a lot in this time period you can see these variations start to die away. Though of course, we often still use words like 'spoilt' and 'learnt' today.

> 64

JerryMmm, I read that same sentence three times and could make neither heads nor tails of it. It might have as well been written in Dutch! ;)

(At least Liz could translate it for us!)

"Goede creature!" opzette Matilda, "hemelsnaam blest heeft u met een eerlijk gevoel hart; hoe veel beter zijn thy gevoelens als die van een beter begrip en gecultiveerd talenten, wanneer hun geesten zijn verderfelijke door de goedheid van onregelmatige passies!"

Had it been Dutch, it would've been easier for me.

Do keep reading, I really like the director's commentaries / annotations.

--------------------
starts on p.25 (11.5%)

...in which Matilda and Joseph put the dead lady in a chest

--------------------

1. she sunk fainting into a chair...

...which is worse than trembling

2. hung with dark green stuff

Meaning...?

3. ...shedding a torrent of tears

:)

4. with old trumpery in it

Which is...?

5. towards a sort of battlement

...a turreted wall, maybe?

6. Did the Lady of the Castle write the inscriptions?

7. ...had wrapt the body in the counterpane

What's that?

10. ...Matilda burst into tears

:)

11. Matilda opprest and languid

I should know what that word means...but I don't. :(

12. ...the most melancholy reflections

:)

13. How did Matilda know that the name of the Lady of the Castle was Victoria?

14. Is the dead woman going to stay forever in the chest next door to Matilda's room? Won't her decaying body smell bad?

15. Isn't Bertha wondering how long Matilda is planning to stay?

16. Isn't Bertha aware that Joseph and Matilda are often gone at the same time?

---------------------------

ends on p. 31 (14%) at...

with kindness and ease to himself.

1)

'Good heavens!' cried she, 'some person was doubtless murdered here too.' 'Intended to have been murdered,' answered Joseph, wiping his eyes, 'but thank God she escaped then.' He said no more.

Hmmm, Joseph knows more...

2) who have carried of the lady - isn't it off? or is that a typo/ocr error?

3) Matilda goes from nearly hysterical to practical quite fast, doesn't she?

4) opprest and languid

both words

SqueakyChu You stop in the middle of paragraphs. How do you do that?

re: Victoria, perhaps she thought that the Victoria in the inscriptions was the Lady of the House?
At first I thought it was some contemporary or classical reference .

> 70


SqueakyChu You stop in the middle of paragraphs. How do you do that?

Easily. :)

Kidding aside, the "ends on" was the end of a paragraph. I just didn't want to type the whole sentence or the paragraph.

Maybe your edition is typeset different from mine?

P.S. JerryMmm, I'm enjoying your company as tutee on this thread.

Sorry! - got caught up today.

___________________________________________

>>#69

2. Stuff is a coarse material made out of wool that was used for upholstery and curtain-making.

4. Trumpery means worthless or without value; it was a term often applied to women's fashion accessories, but also to cheap imitations of anything or just useless bits and pieces.

5. The battlements of a castle are a walkway built on the roof but behind a wall: it was where guards would patrol, and the castle could be defended from there with weapons like arrows or catapults.

6. At this point we don't know; we only know they were written by someone called Victoria.

7. A counterpane is a quilt or a bedspread.

11. Languid means weary; or rather, it's the way someone looks or acts when they are weary.

13. She infers it from the fact that what the inscriptions say parallel what the Lady of the Castle said about herself: "God forbid, you should ever know the sorrows of a wife and mother, who knows not but that she is childless and cut off for ever from those endearing ties..."

14. I think the inference is that the tight seal of the trunk will negate any, uh, unpleasantness. (There have been many real instances of bodies being stashed like this and not being detected.)

15. Bertha is a servant and a wife, and so probably isn't thinking for herself in two different ways. Besides, she's happy to have company.

16. Probably, but we don't know how Joseph usually spends his time - he might always be away for extended periods. It might not occur to her that Joseph and Matilda are together while they are both away. It's only because they share a secret that they are.

>>#70

2. It says 'off' in my edition.

3. She's a heroine, so she's obliged to give us a burst of hysteria now and then. :)

4. For languid, see above. Opprest = oppressed: a feeling of being emotionally weighed down or overwhelmed by something.

5. See 13. above.

JerryMmm,

Why don't you continue your questions with additional numbers instead of the same ones I use? I think we have Liz confused (as you don't even have a question #5)!

:)

In my defence, it was the question that came after #4. :)

Will do

Starts with page 31 (14%)

...in which Matilda and Albert head for Paris

-------------

1. ...with tears in his eyes

Again. So was it not "unmanly" for a man to cry?

2. ...we seldom meet with pleasure or happiness, without some alloy

I know what a metal alloy is, but what does the word mean in this context?

3. She quitted the apartment with a flood of tears...

:)

4. Joseph carried her portmanteau and box to the carriage.

What box? What was in it? Was that the chest with the dead body?!

5. Albert stared at the latter.

Why did the box catch his interest?

6. ...tears running down their cheeks

:)

7. ...previously concerted a correspondence with Joseph

Meaning...?

8. ...not liking the stranger's curiosity

I think the stranger recognizes the horse.

9. ...she crying and begging no harm

Okay. She has a reason to cry now.

10. ...as you say it will be for the young lady's advantage (says Joseph)

I don't believe the uncle.

11. ...from a garrulity natural to old age

What does that word mean?

-------------------------------

Ends on page 35 (16%)

...any one who wanted information from her.

1. I won't say "at this time", but "in novels of this time", expressing your emotions was considered a positive thing, and crying was a measure of your "sensibility" - that is, empathy, susceptibility to being emotionally affected. (Good people had "sensibility", bad people were "unfeeling".)

2. It means essentially the same thing, a mixture, but in this sort of context it has a more negative connotation. When you say that something is not without alloy, you mean it isn't perfect - in this specific case, imperfect happiness or imperfect pleasure.

4. & 5. No, these are the bags containing the clothing and other things that the Lady of the Castle set aside for her. Albert stares at them because he knows she didn't have them when they left Mr Wiemar's house.

7. Arranged; in this context there is a suggestion of a conspiracy, or a secret.

11. Talking too much. :)

As for the rest, I think your instincts are very good!

I'm not a native speaker, and I could look up the words I don't readily recognize, even though some I can glean the meaning from the context. But you may provide some more context and meaning, so I'll ask sometimes.

1) may Providence one day restore you to felicity and your friends.'

2) re alloy, I believed the metal alloy was pronounced with the accent on the 'al-loy, while the other meaning had the accent on the al-'loy. But you say it has the same origin, so also the same pronounciation?

I'm happy to help as far as I can with any language queries, Jerry - don't hesitate to ask!

1. Happiness, often in the sense of being contented.

2. I've heard alloy pronounced both ways and frankly I'm not sure which is correct. Both meaning and pronunciation can drift over time and it's difficult to know which is "right". In this respect, there are a couple of words that always catch my ear when they crop up in movies from the 1930s: "suspect" used to be pronounced the same way as a noun and a verb, whereas today we say SUS-pect and sus-PECT; ally used to be pronounced as per alliance, sounding only one 'l'. It's fascinating how language evolves!

I'm skipping tonight because I have house guests. I'll be back tomorrow.

Starts from page 35 (16%)

...in which Bertha dies in a fire

--------------

1. ...would be to replace the body on the bed

Gruesome business!

2. ...he tremblingly ventured

:)

3. Where did Joseph think that he and Bertha would stay if they secretly fled to Paris? Did he think to impose themsleves upon the Marchioness?

4. ...she was smothered in the ruins (Bertha)

Really?

5. ..writing a short billet to the Marchioness

Definition, please.

6. ...affected the grateful heart of Matilda to tears

:)

7. Neither Matilda not Albert could refrain from tears.

:)

8. ...threw her into a melancholy reverie

:)

9. ...whilst sobs spoke the genuine feelings of the heart

:)

-----------

Ends on page 39 (18.5%) with

...as I have an utter aversion to.

Let's see...

tremblingtearstearsmelancholytears...

3. Not impose upon, but perhaps find employment with; it's a better chance than any other they have.

5. A letter.

Starts on page 39 (18.5%)

...in which Matilda meets friends of the Marchioness

-------------------------

1. Matilda...burst into tears

:)

2. Is Charlotte the younger sister of Countess Victoria and the Marchioness?

3. ...most assiduously endeavored to profit by the good sense and elegant manners of her protectoress

Definition, please.

4. Is Matilda posing as the younger sister of the Marchioness?

5. tears of joy (Albert)

:)

6. I acknowledge you as my sister by adoption.

So who is Charlotte?

7. It is the punishment of profligacy to be confined in a cloyster.

Profligacy?

8. ...fulsome compliments

What kind of compliments?

---------------------

Ends on page 44 (20.5%) with...

...her newly acquired female friends.

2. & 6. Charlotte is the Marchioness, and the sister of Victoria; I will add her to our character list. :)

3. Diligently; with sustained effort.

4. No, rather the Marchoness is going to treat Matilda like a sister. (Sudden emotional attachments are common in novels like this.)

7. Bad behaviour, often involving monetary extravagance and/or sexual misconduct.

In this case it would be bad female behaviour, therefore (by definition) sexual. We have seen before that Gothic novels were usually very anti-Catholic even if their heroes and heroines were Catholic. Here we have an attack upon convents, which were supposed to be filled with good people devoted to religion, but were (it is suggested) actually a place where French parents locked up their misbehaving and uncontrollable daughters, who then became a bad influence on the other girls.

In France, it was common for girls to receive their education in a convent, where they would stay like at a boarding-school.

8. Excessive; over-the-top.

I should warn you - the multiple Counts and Countesses begin to appear at about this point. :)

Heh, heh, heh...

She was terrified and shocked beyond measure, she sunk into a chair, and burst into a flood of tears...

Of course she did. :)

7.

I did take notice that Mademoiselle de Bouville was home schooled. Here in the U.S. a family will occasionally home school their children. Two friends of mine have done so with their own children.

> 85

I should warn you - the multiple Counts and Countesses begin to appear at about this point.

Uh oh! My index card is full. Now what should I do?

*grabs another 8x11 sheet of paper to begin her diagram for this book*

I have done a comprehensive update of the character list that goes just a tad beyond where you're up to - hope that helps!

It does. I keep referring back to it.

9. Monasteries, the ones with monks, were, at least in medieval times, also not as serene and holy as one might imagine.

JerryMmm, when you finish this book (and fall helplessly in love with Liz's tutoring style), you might also want to do a tutored read of The Monk with her help (if she's willing, of course!). It's such a fun read.

Take a peek at this!

Off topic:

I was looking at another "horrid" novel, The Midnight Bell by Francis Lathom. I see there's a main character named Alphonsus Cohenburg. Is that a Jewish character, perhaps?

I'll check out The Monk, is there anything that references The Hague apart from the preface? It's my birthplace :)

>>#90

1. "Don't feel that we are doing you a favour by having you here; you are doing us a favour by being here."

2. "Hotel" is French for house, in this kind of context usually a large house owned by the wealthy / aristocratic. The Hotel de Melfont is the home of the Marquis and Marchioness, and Matilda is staying there with them.

3. It was usually done at this time, although again there doesn't seem to have been any rule about it.

5. That is an English expression - NOT French or German. :) Originally it meant exactly what it says: when someone, a child or a servant, was beaten by their parent / master, they were supposed to kiss the cane (or whatever) to show that they recognised the other's authority and accepted their punishment.

Over time the expression was used more metaphorically, to mean bearing pain or suffering in the belief that good would eventually come of it; Shakespeare uses it that way. Here, Matilda is saying that whatever bad things are happening to her, they must be God's will and therefore she should submit and bear them without complaining.

6. Yes, and that's exactly what 1. is about.

7. Separately; individually; at different times.

8. Get used to it. :)

9. Anti-Catholicism in England had been on the rise since the mid-17th century (culminating in the Glorious Revolution, and the replacement of Catholic James II with Protestant William III), and reached a peak in the late 18th century. The Gothic novel, which was essentially an English phenomenon (the German novels in Austen's list take a different approach), were usually set in France or Italy, occasionally Spain - all Catholic countries - and the anti-Catholic / anti-foreign English attitude got mixed up together in these wild literary fantasies about strange and mysterious adventures - which of course could never happen in a civilised country like England.

The main assertions you find in English novels (and not just Gothic novels) are that (i) Catholicism was merely a "superstition" and only weak-minded people believed in it; (ii) monks and nuns were all liars and hypocrites; (iii) convents were hotbeds of sin and/or prisons, and no woman would ever enter one voluntarily.

(It should be noted that it was the French themselves who first started writing explicit scandalous fiction about sexual misconduct behind convent walls, e.g. Denis Diderot's The Nun. In the 19th century it was the Americans who took over this genre of writing.)

Of course, the perverse thing in Gothic novels is that, being set in France or Italy, their heroes amnd heroines will be Catholic, even though Catholicism is "wrong". Usually the novelists get around this by presenting their characters as generically "devout", and avoiding specifics like Mass and confession.

>>#92

It could be, or possibly just German.

>>#93

Alas, I don't think so, from memory - The Monk is set in Spain.

9. It's still illegal for the monarch to be a Catholic in the U.K., and the law was only changed to allow them to marry a Catholic this year.

I am lurking although I haven't been able to do much reading this last week.

I knew they changed the marriage part, but I didn't know they'd kept the Catholic monarch part - thanks!

No hurry, Rhian - everyone's going at their own pace. :)

I'll read properly later, time for bed and on mobile.

In re the monk, have you read Cathedral of the Sea ?

No, I haven't, but will make a note of it - thanks!

I've fallen a bit behind with my reading, and I think I'll start making a character list while it's still manageable(!).

I've updated the one up above, Andrew, so please do refer to it. :)

> 101

Ah, right...I'd zipped right past it!

You can still make your own, of course: I know Madeline likes to put together her own character chart on a LARGE sheet of paper. :)

Well, my page is not that big. It's only 8"x11". :)

Starts with page 44 (20.5%)

...in which we read a letter from Victoria

--------------------

1. We're starting to identify some of the "bad guys" now...Mademoiselle de Fontelle, her aunt Madame Le Brun, and, later, the Count of Wolfenbach. Oh, yes, also Matilda's uncle.

2. ...burst into a flood of tears

:)

3. ...he peremptorily objected

Definition, please.

4. ...a very melancholy letter

:)

5. ...I fell senseless from my seat

an episode of fainting!

6. ...I shed copious flood of tears
7. ...with trembling steps
8. ...burst into tears

:) :) :)

9. So now we have the background story of a woman forced into a loveless marriage and her beloved who seems to have gone far away. This seems to be a common theme and a theme that I think will support the rest of this novel. We shall see...

-----------------------

ends on page 50 (23.5%)

with the signature... Victoria Wolfenbach

>>#104

:D

>>#105

3. In a way that allows no objection or argument.

I still don't quite understand the geography here;

first:
They soon found the Hotel de Melfont, and Matilda writing a short billet to the Marchioness, reposed herself a little after the fatigue of her journey.

In less than three hours the Marchioness arrived in her carriage

then:
Come, come,' said the Marchioness, 'let us be gone; my carriage waits; the Marquis is impatient to see you, and I have a thousand questions to ask about my dear sister.'

By this time they were arrived at the hotel

So first they arrive at the home of Melfont, then they go to another home?

Sorry, I misunderstood your question - and you're right, that is very confusingly written.

I think what it means when it says "they soon found the Hotel de Melfont" is that they found out where it was: probably they stopped at an inn and sent a messenger to discover the address. (The Marchioness would have assumed that Victoria would tell Matilda the address.) Then Matilda sent a letter to the Marchioness to announce her arrival in Paris, and the Marchioness came and got her.

But yes, phew! :)

Could also simply be a matter of sloppiness :)

Oh, absolutely! :D

Starts on page 50 (23.5%)

...in which Charlotte visits Victoria

-------------------------

1. ...tears of mingled joy and sorrow

:)

2. ...he sought to aggrandize his children

Meaning...?

3. I was drowned in tears...

:)

4. ..he never asked us to his seat.

What does that mean?

5. ... an intention to marry a relation of the Count's, but she absolutely refused him, and married another two months ago.

I have absolutely no idea to whom this sentence refers. It seems out of context.

6. ...left two children...without anyone's knowing what became of them.

I'm sure they'll both show up before this novel is done.

7. ...the Count informed him they were both dead.

The Count is a "bad guy". I don't believe him.

8. Almost every person believes his wife and children came to an untimely end

I don't. About the wife's death, the earlier reference was "'tis said".

9. ...had he not been so suddenly cut off

By his illness and death?

Note: I am purposely moving through these pages very slowly trying to keep in mind who's who. So far, so good.

--------------------

Ends on page 52 (24.5%) with

...independent of that bad man her husband

I am purposely moving through these pages very slowly trying to keep in mind who's who. So far, so good.

And that's perfectly fine! :)

2. To improve their standing (and his own connections) through marriage into a higher social level. Often it was a trade-off between money and a title.

4. A 'seat' is a country estate. Usually aristocrats would have a place in the country (at the place from which they derive their name and/or title) as well as a house in the city. In this case, the two couples met in Vienna and the Count of Wolfenbach never suggested that the Marquis and Marchioness should visit the Castle of Wolfenbach.

5. The Baron Stielberg, the father of Charlotte and Victoria, wanted to marry a relative of the Count's, and thought that marrying Victoria off to him might make it easier to arrange his own marriage (he probably thought the Count would pressure the woman into it), but the woman wouldn't have anything to do with it.

6., 7. & 8. Wait and see. :)

9. Yes.

-----------

Starts from page 52 (24.5%)

...in which Matilda learns Victoria's story

------------------

1. ...to express her affection and wishes for my happiness with her departing breath

I don't believe that either Victoria nor her newborn child died. I think that the "medical gentleman" was in cahoots with them.

2. What is a "medical gentleman"? Was that a doctor? Was childbirth attended by a doctor or a midwife usually?

3. ...more than one life depends on your secresy

...probably that of Victoria's child

4. ...till our last epistles concerning you

What are epistles?

5. ...all I know of this melancholy affair

:)

6. ...his sister's warm eulogisms

What are those?

7. Note: I like the unpretentious Matilda.

By the way, Matilda (or Mathilda) was my paternal grandmother's name. I was named after her (with the "M" in my first name).

-----------------------

Ends on page 58 (27.5%) with...

...infringe them with impunity.

1. Well, you know that Victoria didn't; as for the child, wait and see. :)

2. A doctor; "gentleman" suggests a better class of man. It was more usual at this time to have a midwife, but a woman of the aristocracy might well have a doctor in attendance too.

4. Letters.

6. High praise. (A eulogy, at a funeral, usually consists of saying what a wonderful person the deceased was.)

7. Matilda was one of the most popular names for a heroine at this time. If you go on with this sort of reading, you will meet dozens of Matildas. :)

"I consider the English as the happiest people under the sun: they are naturally brave, friendly, and benevolent... Their commerce extends all over the known world; their merchants are rich and respectable, the first nobility do not disdain an alliance with them, they are considered the supporters of the kingdom: 'tis incredible to think of the liberal sums subscribed by these opulent, respectable, generous people, on any popular occasion..."

Yup - that certainly sounds like a French aristocrat of the 18th century discussing the English - particularly the English middle-classes... :D

Mattilda marries the son of Victoria ?

Was this book written before or after the whole gentlemen go on tour through Europe, or rather Italy, to study the classicists?

I consider the English as the happiest people under the sun

barf ;-)

So, they are wonderful, the English, but their young men still gamble their fortunes away.

I what era are we relative to the enlightenment here?

7.

Uh oh! First dozens of Counts...now dozens of Matildas. :/

> 116

Mattilda marries the son of Victoria ?

????

Is this a spoiler, or does this refer to a different Matilda and "son of Victoria"? In my reading so far, I only know that Victoria had a infant son who was said to be dead.

:(

*waits on page 58 before proceeding with my reading because I really, really don't like spoilers*

said to be yes.
and it's been 18 years
and Matilda is now, what, 18 years or something?
1+1??

no spoilers, just speculation :)

Phew!

Just don't give me any spoilers!!

:D

do continue reading. I'm entering my daughter's books for a quick update of her catalog. It's a slow day.

I'm always following you, and I hate spoilers myself, so I just read your last line quickly to see to where I can read on. Only afterward I read the answers.

Okay. Thanks!

P.S. Liz will say, "Wait and see!"

:)

To take this backwards:

>>#118

I think Jerry is having a guess at outcomes, as you did when you predicted that Victoria and/or her child were not dead.

>>#117

Fortunately, the dozens of Matildas are not all in the same book.

>>#116

During.

The "Grand Tour" became a standard aspect of a young gentleman's life during the second half of the 17th century. However, from the late 18th century onwards there was the French Revolution, and then the Napoleonic Wars, which impacted a large section of Europe. The practice was resumed about the 1820s, but after that train travel and steamships became more common and the whole thing was changed.

As I mentioned at the outset, this is one of the many English novels of this period that likes to pretend that the French Revolution never happened. Most Gothic novels are set in the past for this reason, but this one seems to be set in a kind of parallel universe. :)

The Age of Enlightenment (or Age of Reason) is also usually considered as extending from the late 17th into the 18th century (the idea of the Grand Tour, travel for education, coincided). However during the second half of the 18th century there was a backlash against some of the tenets of the time, which favoured intellect and reason over emotion and sentiment, and the Gothic novels and other literary and poetic works that focus on "sensibility" and often voice an appreciation of nature and/or favour the country over the city, were a part of that movement.

>>#121

There you go! :)

> 122

I like the idea of a contemporary "Grand Tour". I see very different outlook among young Americans who have had a chance to spend some time living abroad as opposed to those who have only gone abroad as "tourists" for a week or two. In Israel, it is very common for young adults who were raised on kibbutzim to take a year off after army service and spend a year living in a different country or traveling through different countries.

1. I presume the "Grand Tour" was only for young men in wealthy families in the late 17th century. How would the families decide the venues that the Grand Tour would include? Did the young man have a say in this or not?

2. What is the difference between the Grand Tour and "travel for education"?

3. "the Gothic novels and other literary and poetic works that focus on "sensibility" and often voice an appreciation of nature and/or favour the country over the city"

Aha! That must be why I like these novels so much! :)

4. I assume that "intellect and reason" were only associated with city living as there is where the seats of learning were. Did country folk not value education at all in the setting and time of our novel?

Heh! We're all wake at the same time - from the four corners of the earth. Well...three corners, anyway! :D

It seems as a skeptic and science nerd it must be why I frequently roll my eyes at the emotion on display :)

Perhaps country folk had better things to do with their time back then. Like working the fields..

> 128

Haha! I love the emotion. It's fun to see that we approach this novel from two opposite spheres!

I'm only up on this occasion for sport-related reasons I'd be ashamed to confess to you. :)

>>#125

1. It was for the upper classes only until the 19th century, at which point the middle classes could afford to send their sons too.

There was no set itinerary, but there was still a restricted idea about what was "necessary": tours tended to take in France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Spain, and mostly kept to the cities. The idea of travelling to appreciate nature did not really enter into it until the 19th century. (Also, as we see in these novels, travel by carriage was hard and very time-consuming, even on the main roads.) As Jerry mentioned, one of the points of the tour was exposing young men to learn languages and study art and culture*, particularly antiquities, so often a lot of time was spent in Italy.

(*This was the theory; the truth is that many young men travelled from British Embassy to British Embassy, without ever really immersing in the local culture, and spent their time on less enlightened pursuits like gambling and frequenting the local theatres.)

2. They were the same thing - the idea was to give a greater understanding and experience of the world and of other societies.

4. Realistically there was no education in the country. The idea of universal and indeed compulsory education was introduced in England across the 19th century. In the 18th century most lower-class country dwellers would have been illiterate; some boys would be taught to read and write and do basic maths if it was considered necessary for them to earn a living.

> 128

Perhaps country folk had better things to do with their time back then.

Only "back then".

I have a cousin in Israel who is going for his PhD in Israel at the Technion, a world class university. He still lives on the kibbutz on which he was raised.

The farmer (in Maryland, USA) who supplies my CSA (community supported agriculture) box of weekly produce is very proud of (and commonly mentions) her education.

Like working the fields..

...but you're right! :)

I enjoy the history lesson and the mystery, and amuse myself with the quaint language and over the top emotions.

It's a shame that in 150 years not much has changed in education. We're still acting like we're in an 9-5 dad works mom stays home society, where children are collated into years and churned out after 8-12 years in full classrooms after having their natural inquisitiveness beaten out of them.

/rant

> 130

without ever really immersing in the local culture,

This reminds me of Americans going abroad today. Some like to frequent "tourist attractions"; others (like myself) want to really immerse myself in the culture of the people.

> 133

/rant

*agrees with rant*

My rant about the U.S. educational system is (it seems to me, anyway) that creativity has been taken out of the educational system, and, in all grades (K-12), kids are being taught toward "the test" (in other words, so that they will pass standardized tests at year's end).

> 132

I enjoy the history lesson and the mystery, and amuse myself with the quaint language and over the top emotions.

History has always baffled me because I can never remember dates or sequences of events. I can only appreciate historical novels by reading what the characters *experience* during a certain period of time.

Mysteries baffle me as well. I could never remember who did what in mystery programs on TV (which I don't watch any more due to my hearing loss plus the computer is much more fun because it's interactive). That is also why I have to diagram (I have started my diagram!) the characters in this novel. :)

I like the creepy feel of the Gothic novels. I love the sensation and the fun of them. Purely emotional, I know. :D

------------------------

starts with page 58 (27.5%)

...in which Matilda learns that the Marquis and his wife will soon be headed to England

----------------------

1. What I most admire (etc.)...(through) land of liberty.

I like the Count de Bouville. He should run for political office. I'd vote for him. :)

2. ...mode of travelers, engrossing the attention of the company to myself.

Haha! Yes, they tend to do that!

3. ...who may dispute the palm of beauty with any court in the known world

What is the palm of beauty?

4. English women, take them all in, are more fascinating than any nation I ever saw.

Interesting. Is this only the Count's observation of European women at that time?

I would have thought that French women would have been considered the most fascinating simply for what I now know of that culture. Of course, this is all personal opinion so I guess there's no right or wrong answer. However, France (or Paris, at least) always seemed to me to be the fashion center of Europe (and maybe the world?) although this does not take into consideration natural or "inner beauty".

On the other hand, was the Count referring to "fascinating" in the intellectual sense (i.e. that English women were more intriguing due to their knowledge and opinions)?

5. ...highly pleased with Monsieur de Clermont, her friend's lover

Which friend was that? I'm lost.

6. Why are the Marquis and his wife planning to visit England?

7. Can you explain the embarrassment that ensued when the Count de Bouville "accidentally" asked Matilda if she liked Paris as much as Vienna?

Is that because the Count de Bouville already knows Matilda's secret? Was the Castle of Wolfenbach in Vienna (and not in Germany)?

------------------

Ends with page 60 (28.5%) ...

...she recovered from her embarrassment.

1. & 4. Really, all this is just Eliza Parsons massaging the egos of her middle-class English readership. :)

No French aristocrat ever talked like that about the English, and if they did, they'd've been off to the guillotine the next minute. (Of course, given the date of this story the Count would have been off to the guillotine anyway, but that's another story...)

And there was no voting in France at the time - sorry!

"Fascinating" in this context means beautiful, but more than beautiful - a certain je ne sais quoi, as the French put it - not necessarily intellectual, but attractive for more than just physical reasons. (Here it refers to Matilda's sweetness, modesty and "sensibility".)

3. "To bear away the palm" or "to carry off the palm" is an expression that derives from the fact that in classical times, a palm frond was a sign of victory. These days some militaries use a palm leaf as a decoration, and there are other uses of it such as the Palm D'or (Golden Palm) at the Cannes Film Festival.

So here "the palm of beauty" would be a beauty contest, which the Count thinks Englishwomen would probably win (and so carry off the palm of beauty).

5. Adelaide De Bouville, the Count's sister and Matilda's friend, is engaged to Monsieur De Clermont.

6. Just for a holiday (a very un-Gothic-novel concept!).

7. The fact that Matilda came to the de Melfonts from the Castle of Wolfenbach, after running away from her uncle, is a secret. The de Melfonts have let it be supposed that she is visiting them from Vienna, where she has never in fact been, so the Count's question is embarrassing to her.

At this time Austria was a part of Germany, so Vienna - and the Castle of Wolfenbach - are in Germany.

Hence, "a German story". :)

> 138

5.

My diagram is growing. :)

Does the word "lover" in the context of Adelaide and Monsieur de Clermont simply mean that the pair are in love? Or does it mean that they're engaged?

7.

So the "accidentally" had nothing to do with the Count as his question was in earnest, I'm supposing.

she is visiting them from Vienna,

Do you mean Switzerland and not Vienna?

5. That they were engaged, yes; the usual phrase is "accepted lover".

7. Yes, he was just making conversation and accidentally hit a nerve.

Sorry, yes - the geography in this novel is a bit shonky, and it's making me confused. (There's no real reason why Matilda and Albert should have wandered into Austria while trying to get from Lucerne to Zurich.)

I have company tonight. I'll continue tomorrow.

Oh, poo! :)

#115 That section made me smile!

He forgot "modest". :)

By the way, I hope you're planning on joining Madeline in Challenge #1?

Starts on page 60 (28.5%)

...in which Mademoiselle de Fontelle aanounces she was in the company of Mr. Weimar

------------------

1. What is a gadabout?

2. ...assured her they must be violently intimate

What does that mean?

3. ...down she dropped

:)

4. ...cried she, eagerly and trembling

:)

5. How did Mademoiselle de Fontelle know that the mention of Mr. Weimar would upset Matilda? I get the feeling that she did know.

6. ...under the melancholy impression

:)

7. Why did Mr. Weimar say he was both uncle and father to Matilda?

8. I cannot follow the paragraph that begins with The count walked about the room. Who was talking to whom? What was happening in that paragraph?

---------------------

Ends on page 63 (30%) with...

...never knew deception

1. Someone who goes from social gathering to social gathering; someone who puts all their energy into having a good time.

2. "Let's be BFFs!" :)

5. Perhaps based upon how Mr Weimar spoke of Matilda; we see when he calls upon the de Melfonts how he portrays her.

6. He means he's been like a father to her (ha!), in raising her since she was a baby, but also that he is *the* male authority figure in her life.

8. This is your answer to #5. Mr Weimar is spreading evil stories about Matilda, to protect himself in case she has told anyone the reason why she ran away from him.

That paragraph is confusing because it is recounting a conversation in full as if it were happening now, instead of presenting it in the past tense.

The Count De Bouville and his sister Adelaide have called to see how Matilda is. While they are there (and while the Count is walking about the room), Adelaide tells the Marchioness that Mademoiselle De Fontelle called upon her and her brother earlier that day, and repeated to them the dreadful things she had heard about Matilda from Mr Weimar. At that time, the Count got very angry and accused Mademoiselle De Fontelle of being jealous of Matilda.

As Adelaide is telling the story, the Count gets angry again and announces that he would, "Stake my life upon the honour and integrity of the young lady."

'Ill!' cried the Count, eagerly

eagerly?

#144 Yes, just popped over to add it.

>>#147

Urgently; it doesn't necessarily have a positive connotation.

>>#148

Excellent!

I still don't understand how Mademoiselle de Fontelle got into the company of Mr. Weimar. Did that happen by chance?

More or less. Mr Weimar is in Paris looking for Matilda and he and Mademoiselle de Fontelle have ended up at the same social gathering. Mr Weimar is bad-mouthing Matilda wherever he goes, partly to protect his own reputation, and partly in the hope that the de Melfonts will get cold feet about her and ask her to leave. He finds a willing collaborator in Mademoiselle de Fontelle, who can't wait to spread the bad news.

Starting from p. 62 (backing up to reread that paragraph I didn't understand the first time round) 29.5%

...in which Matilda agrees to meet with Mr. Weimar

----------------

1. Mademoiselle de Fontelle says, I shall never forget the pretty idea.

What does that mean or to what does that refer?

2. Why does the Marchionesse prohibit talking?

3. I tell you this in secret.

Ha!

4. How shall we silence calumny?

What is calumny?

5. Are Mr. Weimar and Monsieur du Versac friends?

6. Remind me again of the conversation between Mr. Weimar and Agatha. I can no longer remember what they said.

7. ...the little hectic which the fever occasioned

What is that?

8. Please explain the following...

Adelaide surveyed her with admiration and compassion, her generosity felt an increase from the knowledge of her misfortunes, though she was cautious not to drop a word that might give the other any suspicion that she was acquainted with them.

With whom?

---------------------

Ends on page 68 (32.5%) with...

...to take place the following day

1. Calling something a "pretty idea" is sort of like saying "That's a nice thing to say" - she's being sarcastic. The "pretty idea" is the Count's suggestion that she is jealous (envious) of Matilda. Which of course she is.

2. Just because Matilda is so ill. Perhaps she thinks anything the Count has to say to Matilda will get her too worked up. :)

3. No, not in this case (see #8).

4. Slander; character assassination. The kind of things Mr Weimar and Mademoiselle de Fontelle have been saying about Matilda.

5. Yes.

6. Mr Weimar said that he couldn't control his passion for Matilda any longer, and Agatha advised him to get rid of Albert for a few days and then, when Matilda was alone and defenceless, to rape her. (She didn't put it quite like that, but that was the gist of it.)

7. A hectic fever is one that goes through a cycle of symptoms, like being hot then cold, and being flushed and then pale. In this case Matilda is probably flushed (since that's a visible symptom).

8. Them, not whom: Matilda's misfortunes. The Marquis and Marchioness have confided Matilda's story to the Count and Adelaide (that's the secret referred to in #3.), but Adelaide is being careful not to let Matilda know ("not to drop a word") that she knows (is "acquainted with them").

SqueakyChu asked my question already.

6. I'm going to have to add plot points to my diagram. By the time I get around to the developing story, I've forgotten some important point from the beginning of the novel. It doesn't help that I'm only reading a few pages at a time, either.

Is Mr. Weimar really related to Matilda? I'm beginning to doubt that as well.

>153 lyzard:

Jerry, I read your mind! :)

Off Topic:

Liz, did you see that you have another potential follower of the tutored read of The Monk?

re that thread and the no spoilers thing, could you list to where you get to at the top of your post, so I don't even need to see your questions? :->

> 157

could you list to where you get to at the top of your post, so I don't even need to see your questions

Sure!

Yes, that's a good idea.

This is the first time we've had an actual second tutee, Jerry, rather than just lurkers, so we do need to figure out what suits both of you. Thanks for speaking up!

I'm glad you both allow me to participate
(plus the usual 1000 thanks and thank you no thank you's etc etc etc we're getting used to in the novel in question...)

Any more of that, and you'll make me burst into a flood of tears!

-----------------------------------------------

From page 68 (32.5%) to page 72 (34.5%)

Ends with...
...with his mother and sister if they were disengaged.

---------------------------------------------

1. I'm not your uncle."

See?! I knew it! I knew it! :)

2. What is a dimity petticoat?

3. What are cambric handkerchiefs?

4. Is "cloaths" another word for "clothes"?

5. ...a friendly burst of tears

:)

6. ...with a flood of tears

:)

7. If there is a mystery in her birth, time yet may bring it to light.

I hope so!

8. The Countess is safe...

Victoria?

9. The Count de Bouville instantly took leave (Why?) nor did they attempt to detain him, but engaged his return in the evening, with his mother and sister if they were disengaged. (Does that mean if they were free to return?)

---------------------------------------------

...in which the uncle tells his story

---------------------------------------------

To Jerry re 162...

Do you mind the bolded headings if I don't give away anything?

1. I wouldn't believe the man if he told me he was a liar. :)

2. Dimity is a light and sheer yet quite strong white cotton fabric. It was a servviceable rather than fancy material and suggests that whoever left the baby wasn't rich.

3. Cambric is a kind of linen that was used for a variety of clothing types.

4. Yes, an archaic spelling.

7. "...but not for another 100 pages or so..."

8. Yes.

9. Because they've obviously received some exciting / upsetting personal news - he's being tactful. Yes, 'disengaged' means without a (social) engagement.

>>#163

You could put it after the questions, so Jerry doesn't read it by accident?

> 165

Done.

I'm finding those summary phrases very helpful, since we don't share page numbers - thanks!

Hmm...

"...for my part I have little doubt but her birth is noble; her person, her figure, the extraordinary natural understanding she possesses confirms my opinion that so many graces seldom belong to a mean birth or dishonest connexions."

The world used to be so simple, didn't it?? :)

The summary doesn't work for me, it's too broad. I would prefer the last few words. I generally use that to search my document, then page-up to the previous point and start reading.

The bolding doesn't bother me.

One thing I've noticed (31% on my version) is the following phrase which jumped out at me:

'The young folks had an hour to themselves'

To me it sounded very odd to hear the word 'folks' in this context. It's not a word that we use much in British English and I've always considered it a particularly American phraseology. But now I wonder if it's one of those phrases that was once used on both sides of the Atlantic and just fell out of favour on this side.

And I also liked the portrait of mademoiselle De Fontelle (32%):

'took the hand of Matilda, called her her sweet friend, assured her they must be violently intimate, she was quite charmed with her' - I can see where Jane Austen got Isabella in Northanger Abbey from!

> 167

I'm finding those summary phrases very helpful, since we don't share page numbers - thanks!

Those summary notes help me locate where we are in the story as we have no chapters or other landmarks. Plus, everyone's paging system is marked differently. :)

> 169

Oops! Jerry, I simply left the last few words out by accident. They're back! Sorry.

perfect. I'll continue reading later.

>>#170

I think "folks" used to have a more specific meaning, Rhian - it used to mean a particular group of people, rather than just "people". So here it means that out of a gathering of people of various ages, the young ones - the young folks - got together.

I can see where Jane Austen got Isabella in Northanger Abbey from!

Oh, yes! Although to be fair Isabella is just selfish, rather than actively vindictive, as it turns out Mademoiselle De Fontelle is.

------------

From page 72 (34.5%) to page 80 (38.5%)

Ends with
...with an affectionate and tender air.

------------------

1. she was...weeping bitterly

:)

2. ...wiping his eyes

:)

3. ...tears of thankfulness running down his cheeks

:)

4. ...wiping her eyes

5. They forebore to notice it...

Meaning?

6. ...to account for her acrimony?

What is acrimony?

7. She burst into tears...

This time, rightly so!

8. So now that Mr. Weimar has been refused marriage by Matilda, he simply wants to make a prisoner of her?

----------------

...in which Mr. Weimar is waiting for Matilda's answer

5. They saw it, but said nothing; they didn't draw attention to it.

6. Antagonism; resentment.

8. I imagine he intends to revert to Plan A, i.e. NOT marry her...

What keeps me amazed are the word for word recollections of conversations had years past. I can hardly tell you about a conversation a week ago..

what was the general thinking about nature vs nurture, when it comes to how people behave etc?
Asking after reading things like little doubt but her birth is noble; her person, her figure, the
extraordinary natural understanding she possesses confirms my opinion that so many
graces seldom belong to a mean birth or dishonest connexions. I suppose there was a big sins of the father thing going on back then.

The section starting with This is true benevolence; has a different feel to it, as if the narrator is breaking the fourth wall. Is this common?

Heh, I was just reminded of one of my favourite films, Gigi. I dare say you would both like it. It plays a century later, but still.

-----------------------------
From page 80 (38.5%) to page 84 (40.5%)
Ending with:
...and hastily withdrew
----------------------------

1. ...the languor that pervaded her fine features

Which is...?

2. I never saw such rudeness

What rudeness?

3. So Adelaide had to hang out with Mademoiselle de Fontelle because it was the "fashionable" thing to do?

4. ...tears running down her cheeks

:)

5. She wept aloud...

:)

6. Why did Mr. Weimar acquiesce to leaving Matilda in the care of the Marchioness? What did the Marquis tell Mr. Weimar?

------------------------------------
...in which Matilda said she would neither marry Mr. Weimar nor become engaged to anyone else without his permission
------------------------------------

>>#177

Reported conversations of this sort, often not just long but repeated even decades after the event, were a common feature of novels at this time. (Sometimes you can tell the author is conscious of the improbability, as they will have the speaker begin by saying something like, "The horror of the moment burned every word into my memory...")

Nature. Definitely nature. High-born people were naturally better than anyone else, and a high-born person raised by low-born people would be as different from their foster parents and siblings as any other cuckoo in the nest.

Nurture could help, but nature was the deciding factor.

I would call that passage closer to omniscient narrative than breaking the wall: I don't think there's a direct address to the reader, but it is different in that it is speaking of a general issue rather than something immediately related to the characters.

Was Gigi nature or nurture?? I can't remember. :)

>>#178

1. Weariness; often a physical tiredness related to mental stress. Related to 'languid' (#69).

2. The refusal of the ladies in the other carriage to properly return the Marchioness's greeting, but behaving as if they hardly know her (or worse, think her beneath them); social rituals like that were very important. Clearly this is because Mademoiselle De Fontelle has been telling spreading her stories about Matilda, and the Marchioness is being condemned by association ("The Count, who could too well account for this behaviour...").

3. Pretty much; another social ritual. They're not friends, just acquaintances.

6. Perhaps because he knows the Marquis has powerful friends, perhaps because he has a plan that requires Matilda not being in a convent...

> 177, 179

High-born people were naturally better than anyone else

LOL!

Sadly, I never saw "Gigi", but I do remember how popular it was.

From page 84 (40.5%) to page 88 (42.5%)
Ending with...
...announced in town

--------------------------------

1. What is a letter de cachet?

2. Who is Mrs. Courtney?

3. ...spend the following day in Harley-street

What is so special there?

4. You shall learn it... (English)

Is this to show that being in England is "good"?

5. Why did Mrs. Courtney have to approve of what Matilda and the Marchioness bought?

6. What are letters of credit?

7. Who is Sir Thomas Herries?

8. Who is Lord G_______? Why is his name not spelled out?

9. What are letters or recommendation?

10. Were all nobility announced publicly when they moved to a new town? Isn't this going to be dangerous for Matilda?

---------------------------

... in which Matilda settles in England

----------------------------------------------

The English interlude is an extraordinary thing to find in a Gothic novel, and may be the reason Jane Austen included Castle Of Wolfenbach on her list. In the first place Gothic novels never touch England, and in the second the idea of the characters in a Gothic novel just packing up and having a holiday almost makes your brain explode. I know of no other Gothic novel that does either of those things.

1. The lettre de cachet was one of the signature institutions of pre-Revolutionary France, a symbol of everything the Revolution was against. It was a letter, signed by the King, which allowed for the arrest and indefinite imprisonment of an individual, without charges being laid (or even being necessary) and without a trial. The individual could end up in an actual prison or, if female, in a convent. Luckier people were sent into permanent exile. Anyone who criticised the king or the government could expect to find themselves arrested in the middle of the night, and then they would simply disappear.

The system of the lettre de cachet was horribly abused by the aristocracy, who used it to get rid of people they didn't like (socially or politically), or whose property they wanted to own. Or they might use it against a member of the family who was causing a scandal or some other embarrassment, or to prevent a marriage they disapproved of.

You can imagine that such a thing would be very attractive to the writers of Gothic novels, who as we know have a great love of plots including arbitrary and unjust imprisonment, but I have to say that in this case I doubt that a German national would have succeeded in gaining a lettre de cachet to use against a girl under the protection of a French aristocrat.

2. An English lady who somehow helped rescue Victoria: we don't know the details just yet. Victoria's letter only said: I have escaped from the worst of evils, perhaps death, and am safe in the protection of a charming English Lady, Mrs Courtney, at her villa about three miles from London...

3. That is where Mrs Courtney lives when in London, also per Victoria's letter.

4. Not really. It was common at the time for educated people to speak several languages. Matilda hasn't had a chance before to learn English.

5. They are relying on her judgement (as a local) of which tradespeople can be trusted to give good value and service.

6. & 7. Letters to the manager of a bank, usually from the manager of an individual's own bank, that spell out that person's credentials and finances so that he can get access to local currency. "House" in this case means a bank, one owned by Sir Thomas Herries.

8. It was a convention found in English novels through the 18th and 19th century, a way of suggesting they were referring to real people. (Actual real things, like streets or military regiments, were often treated this way too.)

9. Letters of introduction to the people the Marquis wants to meet, or who want to meet him, to let people know that he is in London and willing to be acquainted.

10. Visitors to any place, if they were of any social importance, usually put a small notice of the fact in the newspaper and/or signed the vistors' book at major public places. (There was a paper called the Gazette which existed wholly for announcements of this sort, along with births, deaths and marriages, and who went to what party.) It is very unlikely that the fact of Matilda being with them de Melfonts would have been mentioned, though of course Mr Weimar already knows where they have gone from the failure of the lettre de cachet.

Both these last two points are about the contemporary customs for getting the word out and letting people know (i) you had arrived, and (ii) you were ready to receive visitors.

So, if Mr. Weimar knows exactly where Matilda is, what is to keep him from pursuing her there?

Nothing; but he has no power over her in England. (Rule Britannia!!)

Why not? Is it because the lettre de cachet is only effective in France?

If Mr. Weimar was German (and not French), how was he able to secure a letter de cachet?

>>#185

Yes.

>>#186

That's my question too. I think Parsons is taking a liberty here. :)

I think Parsons is taking a liberty here.

Aha!!

The lettre de cachet was such a frightening concept that I don't think she stopped to consider the limits of who might have access to it.

-------------------

From page 88 (42.5%) to page 93 (45%)
Ending with...
...so near to each other.
--------------------------------

1. There is so much going on in this story. Did readers of this novel sit down and read it all through at once, or did they do it in parts (probably longer than those parts Jerry and I are now doing)?

2. What is meant by ...neither go to court?

3. I swooned...

:)

4. ...a long subterraneous passage

It's a Gothic novel!

5. I fainted...

:)

6. ...and is in dishabille

Which is what?

7. I think Count Wolfenbach is still alive.

8. ...dying to see the French family with me

The Marquis, his wife, and Matilda?

9. made their congeés

What is that?

10. They separated with reluctance...

Who separated?

---------------------------

...in which Victoria tells of her escape
------------------------------

1. I imagine readers then were very much like readers now, i.e. all different! Some of them would have ripped through this quickly like I did, and some of them would have gone step by step, as you are doing. :)

2. To be received by the royal family. There was first a formal presentation, which involved being introduced to the royals by an appropriate person and exchanging a few words, and after that, once you had been approved, you might be invited to various social functions hosted by the royals "at court".

Going to court was a very public thing (which would be reported in newspapers like the Gazette) and therefore inappropriate for anyone trying to keep a low profile.

3., 4. & 5. Again, this is what strikes me as so odd about this novel: the zig-zag between ordinary family life and Gothic horrors.

6. It can have different meanings: to be casually dressed, or to be in (perhaps) a nightgown with a dressing-gown over it; here it means with having dressed very hurriedly and without care. (Dress at the time was elaborate and getting dressed "properly" was time-consuming.) Mrs Courtney excuses the Countess's appearance by claiming that she's been ill.

7. Wait and see. :)

8. Yes.

9. Formally saying goodbye and taking leave.

10. In London, the de Melfonts and Matilda are living near to, but not with, Mrs Courtney and the Countess (aka Madame Le Roche).

Sir Peter Teale's wound ?

we must take a few necessaries with us,
- no more than 4 travelcases...

I suppose patience really was a virtue, and curiosity a vice, because no way would I have been able to wait several days filled with niceties before learning what happened on each side!

Sir Peter Teazle is a character in Richard Sheridan's play, The School For Scandal. In it a rumour gets about that Sir Peter has fought a duel and been injured - and as the story spreads his wounds get worse and worse with each telling, and the number of different injuries he suffers gets more and more, and so do the weapons involved. It's such a good story all his friends are very disappointed when they find out he's perfectly fine.

This was a popular reference for English novelists in the 18th and 19th centuries, often as here being used to make a point about gossipers.

Clothing was elaborate and bulky, and people were judged by how they dressed, so their definition of "necessary" might be different from ours. :)

Life was a lot slower then. Also, curiosity was a deadly sin, even aside, perhaps, from no-one wanting to press someone into describing horrible events if they weren't ready for it.

------------

From page 93 (45%) to page 101 (49%)
Ends with...
...at the castle.
---------------------------

1. Doctor Demowiez, the Ambassador's Chaplain

What Ambassador? Chaplain, as in clergyman?

2. I swooned...

Okay, This time she can justifiably swoon.

3. I dropped senseless to the floor...

:)

4. I wept bitterly...

:)

----------------------------

...in which Victoria tells how she became imprisoned in the castle

1. The Marquis and Marchioness have now gone to court (as we discussed in #190 & #191). When someone went to court they had to be "sponsored", that is, vouched for, by an appropriately important person, who performed the introductions between the royals and the people being presented. In this case the de Melfonts have been sponsored by the French Ambassador to Britain.

The other issue here is the fact that Victoria was forced, under threat of death, to make a solemn vow on the bible never to reveal that she is alive or the story of her imprisonment. Oaths of this kind were taken very seriously and expected to be kept no matter what. However, if someone was forced to take such an oath, instead of doing it voluntarily, it became a "grey area". Victoria has been persuaded to consult a priest about whether she can sinlessly break her oath.

At this time important Catholic families often had a priest as part of their household, who acted as their confessor and spiritual guide. Victoria has gone to Doctor Demouriez, the priest attached to the household of the French Ambassador, to talk about her situation, and he has absolved her from her oath. Thus she is allowed to tell her story.

And much swooning and weeping follows. :)

And much swooning and weeping follows.

LOL!! I'm enjoying this story a lot!

When do we think about what to read next? :)

Speaking of the Marquis and Marchioness going to court:

...and returned highly gratified with the politeness and affability of the king and queen, and equally charmed with the princesses.

Which indirectly confirms that we are dealing with the court of George III, and that this novel is set in more or less contemporary times, and not "in the past" as Gothic novels usually are.

>>#196

Steady on! :)

I'll make you read The Italian next! That ought to hold you! (It's about three times as long!)

> 198

Yikes! Am I really ready for that?!

Well, be careful what you pray for! (And be grateful it isn't The Mysteries Of Udolpho, which is about a third as long again!)

Should I really get it? if so, when?

Oh, good heavens, woman!!!! :D

LOL!

...which is to say, I have no actual objection, except that I've already wildly overcommitted myself for the New Year; but on the other hand I've also promised myself I won't fuss so much about the numbers next year (unless I don't reach 150 books this year, in which case I will fuss EVEN MORE), so perhaps we could squeeze it in...

Let's hold off. I really hate the pressure of not having enough time in which to relax and enjoy something that's supposed to be fun. I would not want to impose that on generous-of-your-time you. Then the activity becomes a chore (like a bad homework assignment).

This year, I've learned to cut back on overcommitting. It's not as if I don't have anything at all to read otherwise. I have almost 500 books on my "To Read" list. Okay, so there are no other Gothic novels...but that's okay. :)

It's okay: I'm just in that tired, panicky, run-to-the-end-of-the-work-year phase at the moment. Give it a week until my leave starts, and I'll probably be bugging you about when we can start. :)

No, really. Wait until you're in a "really-need-to-find-something-to-do" mood. I'm fine.

This is where I say, "No, no - I insist!" - right?? :)

Anyway, we'll talk about it again when you're done with Castle Of Wolfenbach. What's important at the moment is that you're this close to finishing what was Volume 1 in the original edition; I'll be interested to see whether your Valancourt Books edition has it marked.

When you reach that point, since we're around the 200-post mark, I'll start a second thread.

It's marked. I'll finish it later tonight. It's only about two or so more pages.

-------------------------------------------
From page 101 (49%) to page 103 (50%)
Ending with...
...into public view.
End of Volume I
-------------------------------------------

1. ...my dear brother

Why not "my dear brother-in-law"?

2. to condign punishment

Meaning...?

3. ...whether my child exists

I'm sure he's still alive.

4. ...was drowned in tears

:)

----------------------------
... in which Victoria completes her story
---------------------------------

1. Because legally the relationship was that of brother and sister, and the terminology followed; the lack of blood relationship between two people connected by marriage was not legally recognised until many years later.

I will be doing Aphra Behn's Love-Letters Between A Nobleman And His Sister with Heather and Ilana in the New Year, which is about a real-life affair between a man and his wife's sister - which was legally recognised as incestuous (and scandalous accordingly), though there was no blood relationship.

2. Suitable to the crime committed.

3. Wait and see. :)

End of Volume I

WHOO HOO!!

Well done!

Looking forward to Volume II ... on another thread! :D

My copy is only marked with ***

But I'm up to speed. Nothing kept me wondering, so no questions.

In that case, please join me over at...

Bumping as I will be reading this for my Horror! Group. August is Gothic month. What would I do without my Lyzard tutoring SqueakyChu guides? I hope to never find out. :-)

Aww, thank you, Roberta! Hope you enjoy it. :)

Revive.