Buying first editions that are signed.

I have recently taken to sourcing new books that may have potential, by buying signed first editions.

As discussed with Scotchbooks, the verification of signatures in older editions can be tricky. But I am realizing that the future value of a book can escalate higher if bearing a signature.

I also wonder about 'other people' ie owners, givers of books, leaving their print on front sheets. It seems to devalue books inordinately. Even a EXLIBRIS sticker seems damaging. It is best to keep the books in pristine, untouched condition?

Does anyone else do this.

Can anyone else recommend good on-line (eg Ebay0 and reputable sellers. It seems that bargains are to be found on E-bay - or are they scams.

You are generally correct that having a bookplate or owner's signature in a book will devalue it. There are exceptions, however. For example, if the owner of the book was herself someone of interest, particularly in relation to the book's author, this could increase the value. Suppose you had Lillian Hellman's copy of The Thin Man, with her bookplate. Because of her association with Dashiell Hammett, that copy would be more valuable than one in like condition without the plate.

As far as reputable on-line sellers are concerned, look at the Antiquarian Booksellers' Association of America site. Their members subscribe to an ethics code, and the ABAA will hear complaints against member sellers.

Thanks Lithicat - that is a very helpful link. Aopreciate it.

karenwardill,

I've done a fair amount of buying from individual sellers in the UK and USA whom I've located mostly through bookfinder.com. In the early days, even given what appeared to be clear descriptions of the books from what appeared to be reputable sellers, I often received books that were amazingly far off from my recollection of their descriptions. So, what I do now is I save the website of the seller and copy his/her description of the book I'm buying to Word, because they sometimes remove them once they have your money, so you're left wondering if some flaw in the book was actually mentioned.

I've also started e-mailing the seller before the purchase requesting they re-check the dustjacket for tears/fading, the corners and spine of the book for bumping or a cocked spine, and, the number one most over-looked area, the edges of the page block (top, side, bottom) for sun damage or minute tears (from, for example, a fingernail jab), stains, foxing, etc. Most of the time this pays off, although sometimes someone else buys the book while you're still exchanging e-mails with the seller. Oh, also ask how they package their shipment if they don't state it on their site (and that may be a clue to stay away, because a good dealer should tell up front on their site exactly how they package their books).

Now, on Ebay, don't even look at a seller who's not using the right terminology (e.g., "mint" condition instead of "fine/fine"). Once you've found a well thought-out site with proper descriptions (after you've looked at a few sites/stores, you'll know what I mean), look at the seller's rating, then follow the above copy/e-mail steps. There's never a guarantee, but you can minimize your chances of having to return something. When you do receive the book, decide if the condition and packaging is acceptable to you. Through trial and error, you will find a few reputable dealers you can go to again and again without having to worry about the condition.

I hope the above helps.

karenwardill,

Re-reading your post, it looks like signatures was your focus. Here's one site with sample signatures:
http://www.kruegerbooks.com/books/examples.html

I don't really do anything with older authors, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about authenticity for their signatures. However, a search for author signatures on Google or Dogpile will turn up a lot of useful information on fraud avoidance, I'm sure.

Bookstothesky:

Thanks so much for that very informative discussion of buying over the internet. It is really helpful.

It has happened that I have received a book that has disappointed me - especially the older editions. I kinda put it down to the "thats what you get when you cannot see it' idea. Your discussion makes me realize that this does not have to be true. Thanks again.

And I will check out bookfinder.com also.

Karen

I have noticed alot of signed books for sale have a plate of paper signed and stuck onto the front page. Is this much less valuable as a collector's piece.

Karen

#4

Bookstothe sky offers some excellent advice there.

I would just take exception to a couple of things, not least because I am a professional online bookseller who sells on E-Bay myself !

The remark about `correct` terminology` is excessive, I think. `Mint` is very commonly used now as an alternative to `fine`, and I think it`s a generational thing with no deeper resonance.

It should in any case be obvious whether the book has been checked thoroughly from the decription given.

Yes to asking questions, and definitely to checking feedback. I think E-Bay has the most `transparent` system of feedback, particularly since the advent of detailed seller ratings, and that should help a lot.

I`ve noticed quite a few E-Bay buyers ask quite unnecessary questions - my guess is that they`re sounding out the seller to see what sort of attitude they encounter. I don`t blame them for that at all.

Verifying signatures is an absolute nightmare, unless the author is very well-known.

Whether bookplates etc devalue a book is a very difficult issue. My impression is that buyer`s attitudes are changing in that respect, but it does very much vary according to what sort of book you`re talking about (a lot of our business involves antiquarian books). If, as I suspect, you`re talking about modern firsts, then, although it`s a generalisation which I`ll probably regret, you`re better to hold out for a mint copy.

To round off, I`ll give you a good example of how not to do it. My wife once e-mailed a seller a question about the condition of a book she was thinking of buying. He answered, but she wasn`t happy and didn`t buy it. A good month or two later, I asked a similar question about a different book he was selling. Back came the repy with an additional comment - "You asked me the same question about a book before. You did not buy it."

What can you say ? I didn`t buy the second one either.

Nickhoonaloon,

Thanks for the positive comment. It's remotely possible I'm a bit harsh in my judgement about terminology usage:), but I do think it's a fairly large indicator of which seller's an "amateur" and which is a "professional." My feeling is, if you're going to sell books, then take a bit of time to study the terminology and use it correctly. I also play Tennis at a fairly high level, so when someone tells me they play Tennis but then proceeds to use, for example, "game" for "match" or "volley" for "rally," well, then I already know there's going to be a serious mismatch in skill levels should we actually attempt to play, so why bother (other than to be "social," of course:)?

Now, as you say, while it should be obvious that the book's been checked thoroughly from the description given, sometimes the book is listed in an Ebay seller's "store," so months can go by after a book description is put up. Those are months where the book may be exposed to sunlight, dust, poor handling, smoking, etc. And, my personal experience has been that sellers, Ebay or not, often forget to check the edges of the page block (heck, I sometimes forget to check them when I'm just buying a book at a bookstore). I just got a book from a normally totally reliable UK seller I use and that book has a dirty glue residue streak on the bottom of the page block, so it does happen even with trusted sellers; thus, my e-mails to unproven sellers.

Your point about the trouble in verifying signatures is a very valid one from what I've read on the subject and, as you correctly surmised (and I was remiss in pointing out), I was talking about modern firsts (and, usually, "hyper-modern" firsts) where signature verification is fairly easy. There are still a couple of places on the internet where people have compiled examples of author signatures, but they are slowly dying out because, apparently, forgers are using them as templates. Complicating things are the authors themselves who maybe start their careers signing a full signature but who change to some sort of illegible scrawl when they hit it big and signing becomes a chore.

Regarding feedback on Ebay, just to be safe, if I'm dissatisfied with a transaction (which has only happened once), I wait for the seller to rate me first and, since I always buy and pay immediately, I've never had a poor rating. I just don't trust that the seller will be honest in rating me if I rate him in a negative manner first. Anyway, mistakes happen, so I believe it's better to try and work out a deal with the seller before just up and posting a negative rating.

I don't know how bookplates change a book's valuation since I've never tried to sell one, but I do know I see them advertised for sale at a lower price than a comparable signed book. I also tend to not want to buy a book with a bookplate actually stuck on, but that's just me.

Interesting story about how not to succeed in business:)

Take it easy,

bookstothesky

Oh well, we can agree to differ on the matter of terminology, I`m sure :-)

Actually, you`ve just (kind of) touched on one of my pet hates, which is sellers who wait to see what buyers say about them before leaving feedback.

I don`t know what you think, but I feel reputable sellers shouldn`t need to do this, it seems to me to indicate a certain insecurity.

We tend to use the feedback thingy to acknowledge prompt payment, good communication etc. If there`s a problem with someone at a later stage, it`s possible to add a follow-up remark.

If there`s one thing I dislike, it`s when you leave a seller positive feedback and half an hour later, they suddenly decide to do the same for you.

I agree that it`s probably better to deal with a seller direct if there`s a problem, negatives should be a last resort.

You also touch on the interesting matter of how much signatures vary - that is a problem - I know my own signature can vary dramatically according to level of tiredness, whether I`m in a hurry, all sorts of things. I rarely go to book signings, but I remember once catching sight of a mournful-looking Terry Pratchett sitting next to a huge pile of books and thinking "that doesn`t look like fun". Suspect he was thinking the same thing !

Be good,

Nick

Just as a bit of general info for karenwardill or anyone else wondering whether to buy on E-Bay, there is a lot more feedback available to you now than there used to be.

Buyers can still grade the overall transaction and leave comments, but now they can also give marks under four headings -Item as Described/Communication/Dispatch time/Postage and packing charges. These are known as Detailed Seller ratings and in most cases the seller should not be able to tell what marks a particular buyer has allocated under each heading.

I`ve heard a few grumbles from sellers that some buyers see the last category as a chance to vote against postage and packing charges per se, which is not how it`s meant to be used. Having said that, unless these sellers have second sight, I don`t really see how they can know that.

I`m sure it will help people assess sellers more accurately. My own feeling is if people are doing the job properly, they`ve got nothing to worry about.

I presume this system applies to E Bay everywhere and not just E Bay UK.

I've heard recently that there has been a rash of Haruki Murakami first editions with forged signatures. He is an especially easy target for forgery, because there are comparatively fewer of his signatures on the market, and he is known to use at least three different signatures.

So be wary of purported signatures by foreign authors or authors who rarely tour or sign. This seems self-evident, but I was recently tempted to buy a copy of a signed Murakami first from a local bookseller, but stopped short when the signature was utterly unlike any of his I had seen before. The dealer is reputable, as far as I know, and perhaps the signature is genuine. Even if it is, though, and I bought it, it might be hard to convince a subsequent buyer if I ever decided to sell the book.

In the past I would leaf through the Sunday Washington Post BookWorld to see if there any local Book Signings from an Author I liked to read and call up the BookStore and verify that the Author would be there on the date and time specified and I find that most of them accept phone orders and will gladly charge for postage and shipping to mail it to your home address. This is how I have gotten some of my Authographed Copies or just go th where the Book Singing is going to take place. I have also used Betts Bookstore in Bangor, Maine to get some Stephen and Tabitha King Signed, Numbered, Limited Editions. Though of course for some of those kind of Stephen King books I will usually have to pay several hundred dollars for a copyof the book. At the time Stephen King's 1250 Limited Edition copy of THE STAND came out I remember paying $600 for the first one and $625 for the second copy. I have spent more than those for other Stephen King Signed, Numbered, Limited Editions. And once I even bought three shingles from his old Victorian house in Bangor that was having new shingles put on at the time this was back in the 90s and I paid Betts Bookstore $100 apiece for for the three shingles. I still own two of them and gave the third one to my nephew. Betts told me a the time they went dumpster diving and took out some of the shingles from their house to sell.
I guess they didn't see anything wrong it. I know King himself goes to Betts from time to time.

beatles1964

In the past I would leaf through the Sunday Washington Post BookWorld to see if there any local Book Signings from an Author I liked to read and call up the BookStore and verify that the Author would be there on the date and time specified and I find that most of them accept phone orders and will gladly charge for postage and shipping to mail it to your home address. This is how I have gotten some of my Authographed Copies or just go th where the Book Singing is going to take place. I have also used Betts Bookstore in Bangor, Maine to get some Stephen and Tabitha King Signed, Numbered, Limited Editions. Though of course for some of those kind of Stephen King books I will usually have to pay several hundred dollars for a copy of the book. At the time Stephen King's 1250 Limited Edition copy of THE STAND came out I remember paying $600 for the first one and $625 for the second copy. I have spent more than those for other Stephen King Signed, Numbered, Limited Editions. And once I even bought three shingles from his old Victorian house in Bangor that was having new shingles put on at the time this was back in the 90s and I paid Betts Bookstore $100 apiece for for the three shingles. I still own two of them and gave the third one to my nephew. Betts told me a the time they went dumpster diving and took out some of the shingles from their house to sell.
I guess they didn't see anything wrong it. I know King himself goes to Betts from time to time. Alos whenever I buy some collectible books I usually also wind up buying a second copy of the book I can read and put the collectible books in a place all to themselves.

beatles1964

There is a connection between book collectors and collicting history. Holding a used book often leads to wondering who held it before and weather they liked it etc.. A book has a history and part of that history is its wear, its, book label or signature or notes and scribbles. This may not add value in the market place but hold much more intrinsic value.

Unless you are collecting high end books, the joy is in the search, the acquisition and the joy of ownership. If it came from an out of the way book store or a library sale on from someone's discard, it propably won't have too much value either way.

So enjoy your book.