Why the ark?

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Why the ark?

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1rastaphrog
Oct 22, 2013, 10:49 am



From facebook

2Nicole_VanK
Oct 22, 2013, 10:55 am

Well, according to "evidence", after the 6th day he was tired ;-)

3.Monkey.
Oct 22, 2013, 10:57 am

4pinkozcat
Oct 22, 2013, 10:57 am

I think that he only had a time window of six days in which to create. That is why he had to create everything at once - fossils and all. Then the magic failed.

5Taphophile13
Oct 22, 2013, 12:33 pm

Why did most of the animals have to die? Were they wicked too?

6Marissa_Doyle
Oct 22, 2013, 12:36 pm

Possibly some of the sheep had been...

7Nicole_VanK
Modifié : Oct 22, 2013, 12:57 pm

What always struck me as absurd: with all of those animals - how could one possibly limit the number of flees to just two? Noah - if he ever existed - probably more than that just in his beard.

8BruceCoulson
Oct 22, 2013, 12:57 pm

God was a Republican, and wanted to support private enterprise with public dollars.

9Amtep
Oct 22, 2013, 9:24 pm

Same reason he saved Noah -- these were especially virtuous animals.

10guido47
Oct 23, 2013, 7:59 am

I just wonder where the hermaphrodites fitted in the ark? Aren't they same sex marriages?

Sorry, had to get that in. Today there was a positive vote on that topic (Gay marriage) in the ACT (a bit like Washington DC for you USA'ers) Our conservative (Federal) government has already said it will appeal it in the High Court (equivalent to your Supreme Court). I am neutral on that topic...

BUT. Although I AM AN ATHEIST I don't think we should disparage believers.

But give it to the Fundamentalists!

There are people like "Bishop Sponge" who I respect. Don't agree with but do respect.

This thread started out as a "teenage snigger".

Womder where it will end?

11rastaphrog
Oct 23, 2013, 8:36 am

When you think about it, why did he save Noah and his family? He created everything from nothing,so why didn't he just wipe everything out and start with a clean slate? He might have gotten it right, or at least not screwed up as badly the second time around. :Þ

12reading_fox
Oct 23, 2013, 8:59 am

"What always struck me as absurd: with all of those animals - how could one possibly limit the number of flees to just two? Noah - if he ever existed - probably more than that just in his beard."

Lots of different flea species. Cat fleas are not dog fleas or human fleas or Giraffe. Each animal could conveniently carry all their own associated parasites saving floor space. But You'd still need several arks to fit all the beetles in. God really loves beetles.

13jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 9:21 am

There's a simple answer to this on http://carm.org/ .

"There were two qualifications for the animals on board the Ark: they not only had to be those which moved about on the earth, but also those that had the breath of life, or "nephesh." The word "nephesh" refers to those animals with soul: or, if you like, "responsive personality." Thus, you would have all mammals that lived on land, reptiles, and birds. Amphibians did not need the Ark, and insects, worms, bacteria, etc., do not have a nervous system which is complex enough to mark the animal or organism as having a uniqueness and the trainability which "nephesh" implies. Thus, these organisms were preserved in various ways outside the Ark through the flood."

So there we have it, a simple answer for simple people, they were preserved in various other ways. You can't argue with that, it stands to reason.

14Nicole_VanK
Oct 23, 2013, 1:59 pm

So, apparently, some animals are supposed to have souls (whatever those are supposed to be - please define) and some haven't. So how is that reasonable? Your idea of reason must be somewhat different from mine.

15southernbooklady
Oct 23, 2013, 2:24 pm

The most tedious class I ever had was a high school AP English class with a teacher who was obsessed with "debunking" literature. We spent an interminable amount of time on the Book of Genesis, where this guy insisted on cataloging every contradiction and every inane statement in the book. "See!" he'd say, "Nowhere is it ever said that the fruit of the tree of knowledge is an apple." I was never so bored in my life.

As creation myths go, the story of Noah's Ark is more run of the mill than many.

16jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 2:55 pm

But how many of those other myths have inspired such a wonderful collection of toys? I remember mine.

17jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 3:45 pm

Although, looking back, I realise how incomplete and therefore untrue that those toys were. They had elephants and giraffes and all those sort of things of course, but no dinosaurs. I wonder, if I wrote to that nice Mr. Ken Ham, whether he could add to those wonderful animations of his, where he does have dinosaurs, whether in addition to Noah sending out a raven and a dove we could see Noah sending out a pterodactyl. That would be something, wouldn't it? Give those evolutionists something to think about.

18varielle
Oct 23, 2013, 3:55 pm

What about the unicorns?

19guido47
Oct 23, 2013, 3:57 pm

And why has no one yet mentioned Cats? May I suggest a LT variant of Godwins Law Guidos Law
ie. The first mention of cats will derail any discussion.

20jbbarret
Modifié : Oct 23, 2013, 4:15 pm

> 18: Well, unicorns in the bible, yes they are there in the KJV, have been explained away as the single horned rhinoceros. Plenty of room for them on the ark.

(see http://www.creationtoday.org/why-does-the-bible-mention-unicorns/ )

> 19: Cats are a problem I've been worrying about. In #9 it's stated that Noah only saved virtuous animals. If that's the case, then why have we got cats?

21BruceCoulson
Oct 23, 2013, 4:28 pm

Cats are virtuous; it's our flawed human understanding of them that might indicate otherwise.

Still, they're very tolerant of our lapses.

Perhaps other (unclean) animals pose a larger problem? Why would swine still exist after the flood?

22jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 4:32 pm

Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, pigs is our equal -- Churchill

23jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 4:37 pm

One evening last October, when I was far from sober
And dragging home a load with manly pride
My feet began to stutter and I fell down in the gutter
And a pig came up and parked right by my side

Then I mumbled, "It's fair weather when good comrades get together"
Till a lady passing by was heard to say,
"You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses"
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.

24Taphophile13
Oct 23, 2013, 5:14 pm

The Cat Who Went to Heaven by Elizabeth Jane Coatsworth was a favorite of mine. Cats are okay with Buddha.

25Taphophile13
Oct 23, 2013, 5:23 pm

Why doesn't anyone ever address the practical aspects of all those animals in a finite enclosure for forty+ days and nights? Confining wild animals during a storm doesn't sound like good time.

What did all of them eat? Did Noah bring extra animals to feed to the predators or did they all become vegans for the voyage? The odor must have been incredible especially on the poop deck.

I do like the idea of the pterodactyl. Let's use that from now on.

26jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 5:23 pm

>21 BruceCoulson: : With my two subsequent posts I realise that I hadn't fully appreciated that you might have been referring to swine being unclean in the Jewish sense. But it's worth remembering that they don't all go the whole hog.

27BruceCoulson
Oct 23, 2013, 5:32 pm

Are you saying that refusing pigs passage would have been shellfish?

28jbbarret
Modifié : Oct 23, 2013, 6:03 pm

Ah, shelfish. The state of being keen on shelves. How could Noah have managed without shelves.
Shelf lovers everywhere should be thankful for how much they have to be grateful for.

29jbbarret
Oct 23, 2013, 6:15 pm

>25 Taphophile13:: The pterodactyl. Yes, I often think how Noah, or one of his family,must have gone around every day putting fresh grit in the pterodactyl's cage. And a bit of cuttlefish between the bars for it to peck on. It's amazing what they did.

30varielle
Oct 24, 2013, 9:05 am

At least he saved the bees. http://www.librarything.com/groups/beekeepersbooks But then if he only had a queen and a drone there wouldn't have been any worker bees to look after things. So confusing....

31Taphophile13
Oct 24, 2013, 11:48 am

I also wonder how the animals came to be distributed on the different continents. If they all got off at the same time wouldn't there be tigers, penguins, giraffes, platypuses and llamas everywhere? Or did they all have to migrate to their current homes? Or was Noah nice enough to visit each continent and drop off the appropriate animals?

32Amtep
Oct 24, 2013, 8:11 pm

Yeah how did the sloths get to America?
(answer: very slowly)

33Sandydog1
Oct 24, 2013, 11:13 pm

Did he have to save two of Triponema pallidum? Or, did syphillis just come along with the fleas?

34HenriMoreaux
Oct 25, 2013, 2:50 am

#17 This is why there were no dinosaurs.

35HenriMoreaux
Oct 25, 2013, 2:59 am

#33 I'd sure love to hear how he didn't manage to take more than two Demodex mites along being that the average adult has 1-2 mites per square centimetre living on their face.

And on the topic of Demodex/religion, if intelligent design is true then I'd love to hear the wonderful intelligence behind this design: Demodex does not have an anus and therefore cannot get rid of its faeces. Their abdomen just gets bigger and bigger, until they become so distended they die, then as they decompose they release their faeces all at once, onto your face.

36guido47
Modifié : Oct 25, 2013, 3:44 am

Umm, #34,

I always thought this was the real reason



ETA. So that's why my Cats lick my face, Demodex shit Yum.

37m1.salem
Modifié : Oct 25, 2013, 5:27 am

Ce message a été supprimé par son auteur

38Nicole_VanK
Oct 25, 2013, 12:00 pm

This author has been deleted by his message.

39Marissa_Doyle
Oct 25, 2013, 1:44 pm

>38 Nicole_VanK: So where should we send flowers? ;)

40Taphophile13
Oct 25, 2013, 3:38 pm

>35 HenriMoreaux:
And I suppose that is not considered a design flaw but is actually what the designer had in mind? (There are some things in this world that I would be just as happy not to know about.)

41HenriMoreaux
Oct 25, 2013, 5:52 pm

40> If it's what the designer had in mind then it's not an intelligent design ;)

42Sandydog1
Modifié : Oct 26, 2013, 8:16 pm

>35 HenriMoreaux: Thanks for sharing that. Really. I just read so much about Demodex, sp., on the internet (after all, it must be true).

Why weren't these cute critters ever mentioned in the Bible?

I know, I know, we've all seen this a million times, perhaps even I've posted it a few times me'self (I'm old and forgetful). It's still a f___in' hoot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpOjKfu3M0

"...I don't think the author of this, is a zoologist..."

43HenriMoreaux
Oct 26, 2013, 8:28 pm

>42 Sandydog1: Love that video.

What I find interesting is that if one accepts that God is all powerful and the creator of all, then one must also accept that he is to blame for all sin, as he would be the one who created people with the desire to sin and the ability to sin. He then punishes people for his own failings, which in turn would mean he is not all powerful because his creations failed to meet his own expectations.

44Sandydog1
Oct 26, 2013, 8:30 pm

Ricky came up with that one, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9YzOkxB-Gc

45Sandydog1
Oct 26, 2013, 8:46 pm

And why the freak didn't the Bible mention freakin' Kanga-freakin'- roos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3X5f3gY4iw

46HenriMoreaux
Oct 26, 2013, 9:42 pm

47justjim
Oct 27, 2013, 11:58 pm

>34 HenriMoreaux:, >36 guido47:
I was under the impression the cause was a much more noble one!

©Zach Weiner, SMBC Comics. Image links to his site.

48darrow
Oct 29, 2013, 1:09 pm

A few extras were taken for sacrifice and breeding.

(Genesis 7:2-3) - "You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female, also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth"

"Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar," (Gen. 8:20).

49justjim
Oct 29, 2013, 9:33 pm

That's one heck of a barbecue!

50Taphophile13
Oct 29, 2013, 11:49 pm

So was it a bit like first class and steerage? "We're breeders. We don't associate with them, they're only going to be sacrificed."

52southernbooklady
Déc 30, 2013, 7:59 pm

>51 Sandydog1: So bizarre. You can see why Richard Dawkins tends to lose his shit when the topic of religion comes up.

53Sandydog1
Modifié : Mar 2, 2014, 10:00 am

And now, as a result of that darn Bill Nye, there is enough of an obscene amount of money to actually build an Ark for the first time.

http://arkencounter.com/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/01/284397588/creation-museum-bill-ny...

54StormRaven
Mar 2, 2014, 2:12 pm

55: Maybe. The only indication that we have that there are sufficient funds is that Ham has said that he can start building. Given Ham's less than friendly relationship with the truth, there's reason to be skeptical.

55Sandydog1
Mar 3, 2014, 8:48 pm

I can't believe I'm saying this publicly, but if I'm ever in the greater Cincinnati area, I might just pay a visit to the Creation Museum.

I've no idea how I'd react, but I hope it will be in a controlled, relatively serene manner.

Lewis Black comes to mind...

56rastaphrog
Mar 7, 2014, 9:54 am

It would seem some people aren't too happy with the new movie about Noah. They say it's "Historically inaccurate".

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/06/russell-crowe-film-noah-edited-appease-chr...

57StormRaven
Mar 7, 2014, 10:02 am

56: How can mythology be "historically inaccurate"?

58southernbooklady
Mar 7, 2014, 10:50 am

A movie takes liberties with the story in the book? Shocker.

59paradoxosalpha
Mar 7, 2014, 3:37 pm

Hollywood has no respect. You know what they did to the historical Pinocchio.

60varielle
Mar 7, 2014, 3:37 pm

It seems to have some prominent stars, I couldn't understand why they would have wanted to appear in it. Time for new agents?

61southernbooklady
Mar 7, 2014, 4:32 pm

>60 varielle:

Fundamentally, it wouldn't be any different from appearing in "Troy," or "Monsters, Inc." It's the story that's important.

62Sandydog1
Modifié : Mar 8, 2014, 10:50 am

>56 rastaphrog:
Would there have been outrage had they done the original/"prequel" Gilgamesh, instead?

>58 southernbooklady:, 61
"300", "the Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Beowulf", The Orchid Thief (the book was actually an interesting piece of nonfiction)... we could go on for ever.

By the way, I thought The Preservationist was rather clever.

63.Monkey.
Mar 8, 2014, 11:17 am

>56 rastaphrog: I didn't click the link, but I noticed a headline on some news site that said it's being banned in Islamic countries.

64Sandydog1
Mar 8, 2014, 1:19 pm

Huff Post, perhaps?

65.Monkey.
Mar 8, 2014, 1:46 pm

Might have been. My chat client crashed earlier so I don't have the conversation handy with the link that I'd originally followed.

66southernbooklady
Mar 8, 2014, 3:40 pm

>62 Sandydog1: The Orchid Thief (the book was actually an interesting piece of nonfiction)... we could go on for ever.

Now, now. In defense of "Adaptation," it was a movie about the impossibility of making a book into a movie. I loved that film.

67theoria
Mar 8, 2014, 3:49 pm

I look forward to the action hero Noah film.

68rastaphrog
Mar 9, 2014, 6:04 am

>63 .Monkey.: Yep, definitely banned in three, with others expected to do the same

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/08/hollywood-blockbuster-noah-faces-religious...

69Sandydog1
Mar 9, 2014, 9:31 am

Hey wait, that picture shows kangaroos!

70Taphophile13
Modifié : Mar 9, 2014, 11:24 am

re: kangaroos

That's something I've wondered about. If the ark made landfall in Turkey how did all the kangaroos wind up in Australia and all llamas in South America and all the giraffes in Africa? Did the animals have to swim from all the way from Turkey? Those poor sloths aren't good swimmers. Or did Noah sail around and drop off the appropriate animals on each continent? How did he know who belonged where? After all, he had never seen most of these animals before, right? Or maybe it was sort of like a train conductor: "Au-stra-lia, Au-stra-lia! Everyone off for Au-stra-lia! Next stop, So-uth A-mer-ica!"

71AsYouKnow_Bob
Modifié : Mar 9, 2014, 1:32 pm

Late to the conversation, but

>18 varielle: What about the unicorns?

http://arnoldzwicky.s3.amazonaws.com/AddamsUnicorn.jpg

(...which is clearly the inspiration for >34 HenriMoreaux:)

72Sandydog1
Mar 9, 2014, 9:33 pm

Unicorns schmoonicorns.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see one.

But I'd rather see a Tenontasaurus, an Andrewsarchus, a Moschops, or a Paraceratherium, a Platybelodon or a even a Dunkleosteus...any day of the week

73pinkozcat
Mar 15, 2014, 12:24 am

#70 Perhaps Noah was in the time before the continental drift and Australia was the kangaroo paddock and the llamas were fenced into the area which is now South America.

76Bookmarque
Mar 16, 2014, 5:41 pm

That was fab. Love everything he said.

77PedrBran
Mai 28, 2014, 8:38 pm

Noah is the man...there are 900,000 insect species....flies...mosquitos...It must have been fun on the ark housing all them not to mention the hundreds of thousands of parasites in the world...don't forget the tape worms, etc.

It must of been a blessed time aboard the ark...good times.

78Sandydog1
Modifié : Mai 28, 2014, 9:15 pm

Make sure ya take summathem Green Ahligators:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4bc9UwZsYs

But y know, I would've waited for those wonderful, playful Unicorns...