What floats your boat?

CliffordDorset wrote here (http://www.librarything.com/topic/76084#4048093): "I suspect, from the books you have mentioned, your taste is in what I'd call the mildly erotic. There's a very broad spectrum out there. Do you find much erotica is extreme? Perhaps you'd like to tell us which part of the spectrum floats your boat ..."

Hmmm, mildly erotic huh? Which standard are we using here, yours or mine? ;)

I thought both Cherise Sinclair's Master of the Mountain and Kitty Thomas' Guilty Pleasures http://www.librarything.com/work/11642013 have good writing, plot, character building. The subject matter could be tagged under the broad bdsm umbrella.
I wouldn't class them in the extreme of the bdsm spectrum, no. To be honest I gave these as an example for that very reason - there's so little conversation in this group that I thought best to walk on the mild side for my first posting. :D

So, anyone else care to tell us which part of the spectrum generally floats their boat?

Erotica changed totally after the internet came into full swing and to be honest I doubt if I have read any (books or magazines) this century. I come from a country where anything mildly erotic/smutty/nude was banned immediately so when growing up I grabbed anything that I could lay my hands on. Remember that even Harrold Robbins was "erotic". Then I manged to lay hand on a few other books (labeled erotic trash in my collection). I also managed to acquire a number of victorian erorica.

However with the advent of the internet one was flooded with such a wide choice that it became rather boring, and also it is so badly written. So as I said I hardly read much nowadays.

My boat doesn't disdain a priori any body of water (perhaps I have a fleet?!), but in general I like the part of the spectrum where I'm the boss.

As for conversation in this group, I doubt you'll get much of it, more's the pity! LT is American and on the conservative side in every respect.

#2

Well noted, yet another factor in the decline of literacy.

Firstly I agree with Lola its American, but at least the members of LT have ventured out of their cocoon.
I think there is an aspect of erotica or porn that is not truly investigated. The question is how well the writer manages to put the reader into the position he/she is writing about. To explain further. Does the author convey the situation in such a way that you, the reader, imagine themselves in that situation? If the situation is not to your liking do you leave? i.e. you may not enjoy the sexual situation spoken about, or it just disgusts you, then you may think it’s not very erotic. When I used to read more I do admit that I would try find stories/situations/books that suited my likes and fetishes and even reread them often.
Also is the sole purpose of reading erotica to be titillated or turned on. Can anyone say there is any other reason?
As you say is it what floats your boat (How did we get onto water?)

> 2

I think Sturgeon's Law applies both before and after the 'net-driven change in availability of erotic media. (i.e. "90% of everything is crap.") But with my own appetite for the esoteric and forbidden, I can relate to what you're saying.

I can't think of any 21st-century prose erotica that interests me, but maybe that's a matter of needing some time before the good stuff gets sorted from the mass being produced.

Hmm my experience has been the opposite. Online I've found large amounts of erotica that I really dig (I'm land-based not water-based), whereas the erotica that I have in book form has been disappointing.

Hmmm, I think this thread is running the risk of being hijacked into another area of discussion. I'm going to open another conversation on the topic of whether "erotic books" is actually an oxymoron or under which conditions it is (not).

LolaWalser wrote in #3: "As for conversation in this group, I doubt you'll get much of it, more's the pity! LT is American and on the conservative side in every respect."
And yet you have posted, along with several others, and since this group has several hundreds members, I'm guessing they're here for a reason? Also, much as LT may be based in the USA, I notice the general public using it is international. Discussion on this general topic is also not lacking on other US based forums, so why not here?
Surely there are topics that may be interesting to discuss in relation to the erotica genre, especially if the reader has a penchant for it?

> 4 Also is the sole purpose of reading erotica to be titillated or turned on. Can anyone say there is any other reason?

Well, yes. I read some erotica detailing events in categories that fall outside my experience and even outside my appetites in sexual practice. These tend not to be "turn-ons" for me, and sometimes I get through them only by force of will. But they give me a broader view of human possibility, which is exciting in its own way.

#7

Well, I'm not American. I'd be delighted if chat about wanking material overtook the Bible thumping threads and libertarian rantings, I'm just not expecting it around here. But you are right, instead of prognoses, why not do my bit for a spanking new future! Picking up on the same cue as paradoxosalpha...

Also is the sole purpose of reading erotica to be titillated or turned on. Can anyone say there is any other reason?

It again depends on what gets called "erotica". Looking at my tag "erotic literature" (I'm a casual tagger, neither exhaustive nor consistent), there's a mix of straightforward porn and stuff with real literary ambition (and/or value). When I first read Philip Roth's Professor of desire, at fifteen or so, it was for the sexy bits. I can't even recall them now, except for there being a Scandinavian girl in it, the typical sex symbol of the sixties. Anyway--presumably there are other reasons to read Roth.

But I don't see what other reasons there might be for reading stuff like The pearl, The romance of lust etc.

#8

But they give me a broader view of human possibility,...

There's an important truth! In addition, for me this literature helped make sense of my own instincts when everything around them worked to ignore and smother them. In school we were studying the greats of literature, with every damn novel hinging on sex and desire in some way, but never addressing them. Around me, sex was expressed as hatred and violence. Religion stank of it but censured it. Everyone thought of it--I sometimes feel I spent those years wrapped in a dirty joke, thanks to "the male gaze"--but out loud all you heard was shame and shaming.

I owe plenty to The Pearl (the first discovery in my parents' library), more than just some quaint Victorian lingo!

#4 Bergs47 wrote: "The question is how well the writer manages to put the reader into the position he/she is writing about. To explain further. Does the author convey the situation in such a way that you, the reader, imagine themselves in that situation? If the situation is not to your liking do you leave? i.e. you may not enjoy the sexual situation spoken about, or it just disgusts you, then you may think it’s not very erotic."

Exactly. In my view the best author/works write in a style that makes you feel like you're in one of the character's shoes, or at least in the same room as a fly on the wall.
You're feeling, thinking with the character, observing, understanding, learning as the plot unfolds.
The trick here is that there be no plotholes, cardboard characters, the stuff that makes you go, nah, you lost me there, couldn't happen, not logical, or even are you insane?

Being in such close proximity in a variety of written circumstances and characters invariably means 'experiencing' stuff that I myself would never do or wish to do in real life. And that's often a bonus.

For instance, Comfort Food http://www.librarything.com/work/10193652 by Kitty Thomas (2010) is a novel I enjoyed tremendously, and that I could recommend if you haven't read it. I'm not sure if it's meant to titillate, the situation the female main character finds herself in must be every woman's nightmare. The writing and the plot hook their claws into the reader though, forcing to read the whole thing, whether they want to or not, for sheer suspense.
Whether it is (meant to be) erotic I don't know. I would label it x-rated in any case.

So no, not every thing that I don't like to happen to me in real life makes me put down the novel that describes these events.

In #9, LolaWalser wrote: "In addition, for me this literature helped make sense of my own instincts when everything around them worked to ignore and smother them."

Same here. Although when I was of school going age the veil of 'unmentionable' was definitely there. Only later in life did I discover the books that would help me unravel what sort of creature I was/am and come to terms with that.

I can accept a fair amount of unbelievability-after all, erotica is like a musical-everything sort of stops while the characters do something entertaining.

For me though, it's character. Do I like these people? Can I identify with them? Am I rooting for them? Is there a good reason why they're getting together to do what they're doing?

If the writer can make me see them and get an idea of who they are, then I'm much more likely to enjoy reading about them enjoying themselves.

I also prefer erotica set in historical times (even up to the 70's).
Though there is some new stuff out there that I like.

And I always thought the Erotica group was mostly made up of non-Americans.

"LT is American and on the conservative side in every respect."
I haven't found that stereotype to be accurate at all.

I'm calling it as I see it. If LT were a European site, you can be sure the ten most active groups wouldn't count a religion-related group--let alone TWO. As for conservatism, well, even your liberals are right-wing in the global context. Ever took a peek in the political groups on here? I know more than one person who left or went private because they couldn't abide the political flavour of the site.

But I don't quite understand why you think I'm pointing out a stereotype, yet you yourself think that this group is made mostly of non-Americans? (Which can't be correct, the membership of LT is naturally mostly American, and there's no reason why this group would differ from the overall makeup. It's only that for the past few days some of us non-Americans--three if I counted well--were chattier than the silent majority.)

Anyway, not important--I'm sure whoever brings some animation is welcome, wherever they hail from.

# 13 Its simple sexual conservatism is whether your beaches are topless are not.

Only topless beach I've ever been at was in Texas. Bottomless, too, as it happens.

None in Alabama Paradox?

Haven't been to any beaches in Alabama at all.

#8 You may be right Paradox.
I see you and I are one of the few readers of Marco Vassi and I am not of that ilk. These were definitely obtained "under the table" if I remember. Can't believe how few readers there are on LT for his works.

> 12 "For me though, it's character. Do I like these people? Can I identify with them?"

Been thinking about this character thing that I want / need to be there to enjoy the novel. Has to be consistent, believable.
But not necessarily likeable or someone I can identify with, as I've enjoyed plenty of novels that I enjoyed reading while the character abhorred me. Probably the closest description of what I want/need to see is a 'fascinating' character in order to enjoy the novel.

Coming in a little late to this - a lot of my favorites are parodies, erotic burlesques of existing writers or genres. As such, they're at at least one remove from reality, which doesn't seem to be a problem for me.

I think a sense of fun is important to me, either as a directly tongue-in-cheek approach, or a playfulness in the way the story is put together. But I've understand it's the exact opposite for some - any hint of humor can be a deal-breaker.

I agree with LB - I much prefer some humour in the mix. Most writers of erotica seem to take the subject far too seriously.

Humor is always good but I like having my boundaries pushed. I read all manner of erotica from the historical to the hard-core. I may not want to do what I'm reading but I want to see what is out there and find out what I'm missing and what I feel about it. I had the opportunity this past winter to go to a reader/author conference for BDSM. A Dom and his slaves came and spoke/demonstrated what is an BDSM relationship. We also had the opportunity to go to a dungeon. Very interesting! I plan on going again next year. I like BDSM where the emphasis is on the power exchange and self-mastery.

I went to a party in a dungeon once-the owner and I went upstairs and had a great time talking about all the cool technical theatre (my major in college) tips she could use to make the place more fun.
I love a little humor in my erotica. It makes it more fun, and, for me, it "humanizes" the characters. It makes it easier to like/identify with them.

As even a cursory glance at my Library will show, I 'get through' a lot of erotica, by which I mean that my approach is to find and analyse what Colin Wilson has called 'books to be read with one hand'. I've made a few errors in my choices, mostly associated with publishers using covers which promise things that the books don't try to deliver. It's interesting how many books misleadingly portray partially clad nubile women flexing a cane or crop. This says a lot about the interest in erotic chastisement, which I'm pretty sure is more widespread than our politically correct era is comfortable with.

The reason, LolaWalser, that there's little discussion in this group is simply that people don't want to expose themselves (literally or physically) before the (quite large) membership of LT. Would self-help contact groups work if the listeners weren't visible and contributing? Our (relative) anonymity here doesn't help much.

I've learned much more about my sexuality by reading widely (even uncritically, perhaps) than in human relationships, in which your 'partner' has their own set of tastes and uncertainties. Perhaps I could quote another Colin Wilson favourite of mine (paraphrased) is that in an erotic book - 'You meet a more interesting ind of girl'. And why is this? Because your imagination, and that of the author, tells you what you want to hear.

Interesting thread, bluerabella. Thanks.

> 25

Thanks, I like it too.
Pity that not more readers are contributing. I really don't understand what the big deal is to indicate in a general way what type of erotica one likes to read. Honestly, it's not a question to reveal one's innermost deepest darkest secrets as to what one does or would like to do in the privacy of one's bedroom or elsewhere, just to give a general summary for the erotica novels that are in one's library, really.
Speaking for myself, I'm in this discussion group to discuss books, not my private life; this is a book forum and not a self-help forum, I thought, or did I get lost again?
Personally I feel it would be an insult to draw inferences about a person based on the contents of their library. Because it oversimplifies human complexity and intelligence.

I notice that the "boat floating" in all these new threads (started by Blueabella") tend towards BDSM and its allied ilks. Does this say anything about the groups reading in general? For me I don't find it very titilating, in fact have never really read much of it ever.

>26 Bluerabella:
In this field of unknowns, I suggest that more people own erotica than include it in their listing.

>27 bergs47:
Perhaps those who find BDSM interesting (not necessarily enthusiasts) - and I should say that 80% of this actually torpedos my boat, even when it's on the bottom (oops) - are somehow more willing to express their interest. Another possible factor is that many people just don't like talking about even mild erotica. The popularity of 'Fifty Shades', which I suspect is too mild for me, says that there are a lot of closet eroticists out there.

In Fifty Shades, the characters talk a lot more about BDSM than actually do it, to be honest.

> 28 wrote "many people just don't like talking about even mild erotica."

QED

:D

Which of the 5 senses does erotica most easily portray?

>31 bergs47:

Graphic and photographic - sight
Cinematographic - sight, hearing
Plastic (sculpture) - sight, touch
Written word - sight, touch, smell, hearing, taste (in no particular order)

And for all, the most powerful sensory organ - the imagination. 'Woof!'

It could be that most of the people who come here just read an erotic book once, and then move on. Maybe they're just looking for recommendations.
Possibly they're not interested in discussing the finer points of such literature.

Which is a pity, because I love listening to the discussions here. Even though most BDSM doesn't "float my boat" either, I still enjoy the wonderful contributions from everyone.

As to why more people don't reveal what does float their boat, well, there could be a lot of reasons. Perhaps they're shy. Or embarrassed. Personally, since I've created two erotic comic books, most of my, ah, preferences, are out there. Still, I do have some that I'd rather not share.

Or just people who like to read about other people's erotic experiences-which pretty much describes this group, doesn't it?

>33 groovykinda:
I think that here, you're getting close to identifying erotica as a sort of voyeurism - one with less risk of discovery. This has been pointed out before, I'm sure, but I do feel that there's some truth in it.

Just because I like to read about it doesn't mean I like to talk about it. Somethings are just nobody's business but mine own.

When we talk about erotica, we talk about sex, and I imagine there are people in everybody's life that they don't want to talk about sex with, for all sorts of reasons. I think that's why, even in a world of minimal censorship, erotica retains a clandestine quality.

However, as a slave of that most unforgiving of perversions, bibliophilia, I'm glad that we're starting to see more people talking seriously about erotica, here and elsewhere.

I'm of the sort that likes BDSM erotica (love Cherise Sinclair), but I've noticed that as explicit sex has become more acceptable in romance, I've tended to lump a number of books into what I would call explicit romance - books in which the sex scenes could be removed and the book would still be enjoyable. I tend to categorize only those books which can't stand alone without sex as erotica.

I have a quite a bit of crossover, but take an author like Laurell K. Hamilton. Her early books were vampire/adventure/romance, but some of her later books are pure erotica - take away the sex and there is no story at all (something many of her fans bitterly complained about). Even later in the Anita Blake series, she moves back toward erotic romance/adventure, with sex be an important, but not critical component of the story.

I wonder how many readers who participate in romance groups are reading books that previous generations would have called erotica or porn. It may be that readers of mainstream erotica are self-defining as romance readers and that is why readers of more extreme types of erotica are the ones who show up in the erotica groups on LT.

Yeah. I don't specifically classify myself as a reader of erotica but rather explicit novels - not just romance but contemporary fantasy is very explicit nowadays. That's why I was so surprised after reading Fifty Shades of Grey. I read hotter stuff than that in historical novels and fantasy.