Is BookMooch Slowly Dying?

Ever since the price for international mooches was raised to three points, it seems the site traffic has steadily declined. Is it just my perception, or are people posting fewer books? I'm guilty of this — I have posted fewer books and have tried to use up the points I had stocked up, because it seemed I could no longer trust the site. Who wants to invest in something shaky? I didn't want to have a 40-point balance and no books to mooch. Of course, that is probably self-defeating, because if none of us post new books, none of us will be able to use up our points... (on that note, I did go through and post seven or eight new titles last night).

I have also stopped requesting books internationally, since I don't want to pay three points for a book. And so I haven't been sending internationally, either. That aspect of the site has pretty much become non-existent for me. When you do the math, you can usually find the book cheaper in the states anyways.

There hasn't been any communication from John Buckman about how the point increase has affected the site, so I'm really just going off my personal observations here. It also seems that discussion here in this forum has also died down quite a bit. Are people moving on? Is BM in decline? I'm curious what others have experienced.

Oh, and to add to this: even if BM is going to die in the near future, I don't feel cheated at all. I have received over 600 books, sent close to 370, and have perfect feedback thus far (amazingly! don't know how I managed that, especially in the early days when I was a shipping noob). Ultimately I have nothing to complain about if it folds. I'd regret it dying, of course. But I hope this doesn't come across as a whiny complaint, because it's been good. I just hope it isn't over.

There are 6 or 7 books available on my wishlist, but they're all int'l and like you, I can't justify the 3 point per book cost. Also like you, I've cut my surplus points way down. I used to have around 80 or 90, now it's about 20 or 30, which means I'm posting fewer books.

I miss the old system. I also miss the old John Buckman who'd talk over members' concerns respectfully & make decisions transparently.

I hope the site isn't dying. Every once in a while, usually after I receive a great book from another moocher, in a burst of nostagia & loyalty I post a bunch of books. My enthusiasm for the site in general has really declined, tho :(

I'm afraid I've stopped posting books, because I was having to mooch books I didn't really care about in order to use up points. Also, I'm now back to a 5-day work week instead of a 4-day work week, so it's harder to get to the post office. And international shipping rates have just become too high, and I don't feel right shipping only domestically but mooching internationally.....

Ditto and ditto.

So I just set up an account on Chango Books...

From my point of view, my account has naturally evolved to a lower level of activity. After mooching and sending hundreds of books, I just don't have that many books to give and I've got so many TBRs that I'm only mooching books from my wishlist. This level of activity works well for me right now. I've gotten a few gems from my wishlist recently--not every day or even every weeks, but often enough.

I don't see as much promotion of the site as I did a few years ago. Not sure if that's because there is less promotion or because I'm not looking in the right places. I wonder if a little social media outreach would pick things up. We don't need John Buckman to promote the site on our own through social media. Something like this could be coordinated on the BM forum.

I only mooched once internationally and it was a bad experience so I don't, also can't justify using up 3 points, though I will send overseas. Maybe my reading tastes are too far off the mainstream, but I have nearly 2,500 books on my wishlist and very rarely does anything appear that is in country. Perhaps once a month if that. Though when it happens I'm pretty happy and don't plan to give up BM.

The 3 points cost of international mooching is definitely a downer. And due to smaller local userbase than in the US and UK (though not the worst by far I know) and my own reading tastes most of my mooches can't help being international.

While I haven't been in real danger of running out of points, it has narrowed down what I will mooch, many books and authors I would have had some curiosity to try out at earlier 2-points rate and brisker pace of trading were moved over to save-for-later for the time being.

I'm still finding interesting books to mooch now and then, and have a nice tbr pile to tide me over so I don't really mind the slow down, nor having a little stack of extra points as overall I mooched about as many books as I sent, and the books going were dupes or ones I didn't plan rereading ever or in the foreseeable future, while those that came in were good for at least one read for me or someone else.

I hardly ever go to Bookmooch anymore.

I am only interested in international-mooching because all the books I want are not available from moochers in the Netherlands... But even though 3 points is a lot, there are hardly any books from my wishlist appearing anymore, so I'm really less active. I haven't posted a lot of books to my inventory as I first want to use up my points a bit more... And with no books from my wishlist appearing, I don't have an incentive to post more books to my inventory (which now consists mostly of Dutch books - the books I haven't posted yet are English, which will be mooched a lot quicker, but I don't need the points now as no books from my wishlist are appearing...).
With the 3 points, it's mostly also cheaper to buy from bookdepo...
Though this week someone in the US posted two Japanese books from my wishlist, which I mooched, so that was nice :D But it hardly happens.

I was trying to use up some of my points and there are a few on my wishlist and my save-for-later list available, but I've basically run out of places to put them. So I've been forced to slow down my mooching. I've got some books to put out there, but I really don't need more points to spend on books I have nowhere to put. I really think that e-readers have greatly affected the number of books that are posted to BM too. I'm kind of using it as a placeholder for books I might be interested in reading someday. The other day I got a friends request so I decided to check on some of the other friends I have and a lot of them are inactive (for whatever reason it might be). I know the friend that got me into BM, and who was an active moocher, says she prefers her e-reader now and hardly ever mooches unless one of her girls is looking for a book for school.

#11 You raised such a good point about the space issue. I literally have no place to put anything else, but of course when I find a new series or something I try to mooch all the books so that I have then on hand when I'm ready, which just makes the space problem worse.

I don't visit BM as much as I used to, I used to stalk it on a daily basis about two years ago, but that was about the time I got my Nook, so then I slowed down a little bit.

I haven't sent out books in forever and rarely request them anymore. I've received many many books from bookmooch (and sent out many as well) and have nothing to complain about, but basically nothing from my wishlist is available domestically and I've virtually stopped mooching internationally due to the 3-point cost. So yeah. And I have tons to read!

Seems a lot of people stopped posting books and mooching internationally because of the 3-point change :(

I don't visit the BM forum on BM itself - there's no chance of it changing back, I think?

I've cut down too. I mean, I still stalk my wishlist like crazy and will mooch almost anything that comes up, but I've cut back on sending because I have WAY too big of a point surplus that I just can't seem to reduce. I haven't really been mooching internationally often either, except for books higher on my wishlist. Because although I have points to spare and I wouldn't even notice 3 less points, those 3 points came at a cost of at least $7, and if I can get the book for less than that from the bookstore, I don't feel right asking someone overseas to pay a gazillion dollars to send it to me for a one-to-one trade. This was much less of an issue when I knew that the sender only had to spend 2 points on a mooch but was getting 3.

I do have more books that I'd like to pass along, but I've been either sitting on them or going to PBS where I have a perpetual point balance of 1.

Makes me sad, too, because I still do like Bookmooch better, all things considered.

Well the reason I am not using the site anymore is because none of the books on my wishlist ever appear (even internationally) and with how the wishlist is now sending things out every 4 hours, that just assures I get nothing.

When things do appear internationally, no one wants to send to the US all quoting that since the US never sends to them why should they send to us. For the record, I DO send internationally.

I have 58 books on my inventory right now. I used to move more books out of my inventory when I had access to the forum which I was banned from when my email address was hacked for a period of a few hours.

I am also still upset that I am waiting on my journal from the BMJournal project which last had a movement 3.5 years ago.

I have 51 points and would like to find something to spend them on (and I don't like the charity options offered). Not that PBS is moving much faster but at least there is some chance that I will be able to mooch the books I want.

I'm another with an esoteric wishlist that gets few hits. But that's not the main reason why my BookMooch usage has dropped off so much.

For me the killer was how nasty everything got (and especially some of the personal comments from John Buckman) when the points change for international mooching came in. It went from being a place I loved and talked about all the time to being somewhere that made me feel sick and anxious. My issue, I know, but I suspect I'm not alone. John burned up a huge amount of goodwill with that, and I'm no longer willing to have any sort of emotional attachment to the place.

Postage costs are a pain for me and with this slow economy maybe that's also part of the reason why things are moving more slowly. It's harder to justify spending $25 (ish) to send out ten books when I can pay less than $10 at my local used book store to get ten books, half that if I give them some books of my own. International shipping is even more ridiculously expensive.

I try to send out multiple books to the same person where I can but if I list 5 books in a series on BM I invariably get 5 separate requests which I just can't justify right now. I'm sitting on over 1000 books from my mother-in-law's bookshelf which really need to find new homes but I'm not going to spend $2500 mailing them! I wish there was a better way to manage that on the site itself.

--

That's just me though. I know others I've personally recommended Bookmooch to who are frustrated by a variety of other reasons. Books sitting in vacant accounts, users who don't respond, and the need to stalk your wishlist or never, ever stand the chance to get any books at all spring to mind from one recent conversation.

I don't doubt everyone who comments in this thread can think of at least 10 things they would either like to see changed, improved, or implemented at BM to either improve the whole user experience for existing users or to encourage new people to join and post their books. I know I can, but I'm not going to over-criticize what is basically a free service.

I almost wish it was run with profit in mind. I'd rather see more ads, selling of points, etc. if it meant some of the more obvious improvements followed in its wake.

I've been a member since 2008. I've mooched almost 200 books and given nearly 150 while managing to keep a 100% positive feedback rate, so I've done well from Bookmooch. According to the stats, the number of books listed and currently being received have both dropped off alarmingly in recent years but I think that trend pre-dates the points change. The number of books on my wishlist becoming available hasn't changed much lately but I'm noticing the angel network has slowed down a lot, which is important to me as most of the books I mooch are from overseas. I still find most members friendly and helpful but in my experience the admins have become unresponsive at best and officious and insulting at worst. For that reason and due to concerns about the future of the site I'm now keeping my inventory and points to a minimum.

No one seems to have the books that I am interested in lately. When I do find books that I want from an international " ask first" person- I am getting no answer. ( it is just a U.S. -Canada mooch). So I put up fewer books in my inventory ( although I just sent out books to Vienna and Australia) because I can't seem to spend my points. It is sad.

When all the change, controversy, and conflict started, I had over 500 points. Since I joined in 2007, I have sent out over 1000 books (and mooched at least that many) -- the extra points coming from sending out about 425 books internationally. I've managed to bring that number down to "only" 133 points remaining, and not much out there to spend them on.

I was appalled by the bitterness and rancor exhibited by both members, and John alike, and have since then I have lost much of my earlier enthusiasm. I still offer a few books and very occasionally "angel" a book, but all too often when i mooch books, they are weeks, if not months, in arriving ( if at all)

I don't know if bookmooch is dying, but the atnosphere has changed and it no longer seems to be the close community of cooperation and sharing that it was (a lot of nice people still hanging in there though; it's just they aren't as active as they used to be either). Since the bookmooch forums don't seem to be very active, I'm so glad you all on librarything are still here!

All the changes notwithstanding, we can't discount the state of the economy worldwide and the high cost of postage. If times get better, we can always hope that Bookmooch will get better too.

> It just makes me feel sad.

Are other book swap sites doing better? I wonder if the problem on Bookmooch is part of a larger issue such as a decline in literacy or a switch to e-books.

I'll just add my two cents. I don't think the point change had very much to do with the decrease of BookMooch. Its just an easy target.

I think that a couple of things happened.

One - Long term members stopped mooching and posting books as they did when they just joined. In my case, I have too many books now. Also, I don't need as many points so I'm more likely to give books away to friends and places that need them. I'm still adding books and giving books away, but at a much slower pace.

Second, it doesn't seem like there has been as much advertising/promotion. This means not a lot of new members means less books.

Thirdly, I will add the economy. I'd rather give books away to friends than to spend 3 dollars on postage to mail to strangers.

So, I don't think its declining, or maybe it is a little bit. But it has certainly plateaued. Is this bad? For me, no. I still check BookMooch every day, but I don't need more books. The few I get are wanted. I'm trying to read through the pile of them I have. I'm still getting books, but at a much slower rate. For a service that is free (not the books, site membership!) I'm very satisfied with what I'm getting out of it.

Are other book swap sites doing better? I wonder if the problem on Bookmooch is part of a larger issue such as a decline in literacy or a switch to e-books.

I've been on PBS almost as long as BM, and it seems to be normal. Actually I have been getting more PBS books lately, probably because I'm finally moving to the top of the line on my wishlisted books. Of course, this is just my personal experience; I don't know about the bigger picture.

23: You make a lot of sense and those reasons are probably factors, but you can't discount the fact that the atmosphere of the site has really changed since the increase and its attending kerfuffle. People feel it. I don't really trust John anymore and so I make choices about how to use BM accordingly. I think many others are doing the same :(

#25 - Have you been to the forums on BookMooch lately? Things seem normal there. I think that for long term members and those who use this place to talk, things have declined.

By the way, I agree with you - John doesn't post very much and it seems that he lost interest. But, considering the site doesn't go do down as much as it did in the beginning, and when catastrophic things do happen the server, he's on it and generally quick to get a message up.

I do think PBS has an advertising base, with new members coming in constantly.

I'm not saying BookMooch isn't changing - it has. But I'm not sure its as bad as it sounds in this thread.

I never really participated in the BM forums; I found them hard to navigate. But it's good to hear that they are normal.

Maybe the site isn't going down so much because there is less traffic? I don't know.

I'm one of those who feels the whole atmosphere has changed — and definitely for the worse — and it has affected my usage of the site. I just recently signed up for PBS because nothing ever seems to come up on my wishlist of over 800 books any more. And if one does, it invariably will be international and I can't justify spending 3 points on something I could get from Amazon for $4.00 or so. Postage rates went up in the US recently, too, so every point earned represents more money. I still send worldwide, but it's only because I enjoy sending my books to someone who really wants them. Traffic has definitely slowed down in the number of requests I get, too.

The whole thing makes me sad.

I also have plenty of points and 800 books moldering in my BM wishlist. I've no points and a couple dozen books available right now, on my PBS reminder list.

PBS just always seems to have much better books available.

What you all have said. I have sent 2039 books (with 2040 positive feedback) and mooched 2236, so no complaints if Bookmooch disappeared tomorrow. I now post a few wishlisted books every few weeks and send internationally. I mooch a wishlisted book or find something interesting in the recent feed every couple of weeks. I used to mooch daily and mail weekly. All of the reasons mentioned in msg 23 apply, as do the decline in the publishing industry/book stores in general and the advent of ebooks. Canada is down to 555 members in the members by country page. It was 3 times that at Bookmooch's height. Mooching from Canada is pretty much economically unfeasible for mass market paperbacks (which can be purchased cheaper at BetterWorldBooks or Bookdepository.)
The forums are still somewhat active but nothing like in the "good old days".

I was just thinking about this recently. I had many paper grocery bags full of delicious books that I just do not have room for, taking up space in a closet for months because I couldn't decide what to do with them. Should I post them to BookMooch? I was very confident most would be very quickly mooched. Should I sell them to a used bookstore? Set them free a la Bookcrossing? Give them away?

In "the old days" I would most likely have posted them to BookMooch, happily. But the thing is, these days, I have points to spend and a wishlist that hardly gets any hits--and I, like others who have posted here, have felt like the tone and feeling of the site have changed. I've been spending my points slowly and not wanting to put more back in because I feel like they won't be used. Yet I feel really bad because if I don't put in to the site then how can I expect to get anything back? The more people don't put in, the less there will be available, and the more they'll stop using it, and the more it will die away. So...last week I finally just decided to sell them to a used bookstore. Most of them were taken, but some weren't. Now I'm like...well...what to do with the ones that didn't sell? I still don't know if I want to put them on BookMooch...which still makes me feel bad...

I agree; it is sad and yes I think BM is dying a slow and painful death. If you look at the stats; there are fewer books being offered very day, and long term members seem to have disappeared.

I never kept a big stash of points on purpose, so the few I had remaining are probably still there. On BM in the past 2 years from my wishlist which was not esoteric at all :) but about 400 books of general fiction; I actually saw on my mooch list 2 items and I checked daily. The books were just not being listed.

I did switch to PBS, yes I have the option and found from my wishlist, 25 books that I could order on the spot. PBS has a bigger member base and is more active. I still average at least 2 books a month on PBS. That is just the fact.

A couple of friends still have points and books on BM. Both of them have over 2000 books each on their wishlists; I asked my friend and she can not remember when she got a hit on one of her books on BM. That is list is a bit more unique and rare compared to mine yet on other book trading sites, she finds books (the same titles on her bm wishlist) to trade at least 1 to 2 a month and many more books she would like to read.

I could not afford to ship internationally since the cost of postage (which i know is cheap compared to most of the world) was just out of my budget.

I agree that John has lost interest in the site, yes it does not go down as often but in the past 12 months it has gone down several times for days on end while the 1 server gets a part fixed. I think if the site was more stable, sorry but going down for several days is a bad experience to all and not addressing member concerns to me shows that John does not care.

I would state so on the forums but those forums have never been that active. Yes I would say those have slowed down as well, when John used to post 20 or 30 people would comment...his last couple of posts barely made a blip.

That's my thoughts and I have thought this for a while.

Z--

I must be the exception to the rule.

I use BookMooch as much as ever. I don't ship internationally or receive internationally, though. I read/post on the forum rarely. I always keep my inventory small. I check my wishlist regularly and usually come up with something good. For me, it works as well as it ever did.

ETA: Just now mooched a book from my wishlist. Life is good. :)

You're not a complete exception SqueakyChu, I'm still using the site a lot, especially when I can find a way to make points a little cheaper by sending out multiple books at once. Harder than it should be.

I'm seeing a lot of people stating they are getting tired of the site for one reason or the other. I think that's pretty natural when you've been with a site for a time especially if you every get involved with the politics of it. The problem I see with BM, isn't old member fatigue but, the lack of new enthusiastic members to replace those whose enthusiasm is waning.

BM ranks pretty well all over the search engines for anything related to book swaps and it is mentioned in just about every article I've ever read on the subject so anyone looking for a site like this is undoubtedly going to run into BM pretty soon. But I wonder how many of those first time visitors stick around and sign up. The homepage doesn't do much to encourage you to do so.

I've designed websites for over 10 years now, and I sold tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of products online through my own sites. I have a fair idea what people want to see when they land on a page.

The problem with BM is (and I apologize for being blunt) it is ugly. It looks like a site designed 10 years ago and this amateurish feel isn't encouraging when you are asked to spend money to mail a book to a complete stranger. It's all about perception. Why would a new user choose to trust this site?

If you land on PBS right now you see lots of pretty book covers, you can see the pulse of the site with books being mailed, received and posted so you know other people are there and actively swapping books, community interaction is encouraged and linked from the homepage, there are testimonials from members, and there's a big sidebar showing the logos of some big name companies who have talked about the site from Oprah to USA Today. Sign in and that homepage then also shows book reviews, spotlighted members and encourages you to make friends with other real people on the site with their profile pics. It looks alive.

BM, by comparison, has a pretty picture and a brief 4 step guide to how it works with some social buttons stacked awkwardly in the footer.

Assuming you had no experience of either site, which would you choose to join?

Once you join which would you stay with? A lot of the community building efforts are offsite at BM, not on it and I don't doubt most users have no idea they exist. PBS pushes community in your face because ultimately a strong community is what keeps many people coming back. I was excited when John first announced the forum but it's just a mess which was surprising since there are some great free forum plugins out there like phpBB.

I think BM has a LOT to offer and I don't see why this site shouldn't be much bigger than it is. I don't know if John has lost interest but that would be a shame because BM still has so much potential. Again, it's a free service so no complaints, just wish I could have watched it grow not shrink. The international aspect alone is awesome and something no one else is doing even if it does have its problems.

Ah well, there's still a lot to like about Bookmooch it just sucks watching some of the potential get wasted.

I still use it a lot and get more wish list hits than on PBS, but that's partly due to PBS's limit on wish list size. But traffic has slowed dramatically and I'm also noticing that people seem a lot slower to mail things out.

I think that there are a few relatively easy steps that could be taken to reinvigorate BM, but Buckman has made it clear that he's not open to input from the membership (which did a lot to kill the feeling of community that he'd been so eager to foster in the past) and that he's the only one who will make decisions about BM. Hopefully, one day he'll decide that the best way to increase membership is not to worry about points surpluses, but to get someone to redesign the website to make it clearer and more attractive. And maybe to find someone to handle the blog and communications.

I've really cut down my BM activity - I have over 200 points and don't seem to ever find anything to spend them on. I have more books than I can store. In the past, I've used BM as a way to get rid of books but because I can find most of the books in the UK, they cost me 1 point, and I am happy to post overseas, which means I earn 3 points. You can see that that means multiplying book stock! So with the postage price rises and a seemingly dwindling source of books, I've been being less and less active. I've cut out being an angel because I don't need the points and it's getting too expensive.

However, I'm moving house soon, hopefully to somewhere where I will have more space for books!

I don't think John doesn't care. I think he felt a bit burned by the vitriol in some of the exchanges around the changes he felt he needed to institute. He also is involved in many other projects and Bookmooch is basically a "hobby", not a business. He conceived of it and created it. He naturally is not interested in handing over creative control to anyone else. He did send me a book from my wishlist at Christmas to thank me for my helping out on the forums and the inactives project;) Perhaps it would be better if Bookmooch were run by an organization intent on making money. It would certainly be a slicker web page. But then it wouldn't really be Bookmooch would it?

I agree it seems to have declined. I have had over 120 points for ages and have had periods of a month or more with no activity at all. Wishlisted books very rarely come up. I've had a couple recently but very few before that during this year. I think e-readers are a major part of this. Given a choice between a free book from BookMooch and paying even a couple of pounds for it from the Kindle Store, I will still probably choose the latter for space reasons.

The slickness or lack therof of the BookMooch site has never been a factor for me...when I was a new user (in 2008) I didn't feel like I couldn't trust it because of how it looked.

First of all, am I the only one who noticed that this is the most active thread that's been in here for a while?

I really don't know whether BM is dying or not. I know myself, I have spent most of my points and removed my inventory due to financial reasons. I have boxes of books just waiting to be posted that will probably not be for the immediate future. We finished a major renovation about the same time that I got sicker and now cannot work as much as I had been. It's an unfortunate chain of events in my life, that has drastically changed how I look at my spending.

I was still finding books to mooch, however I have noticed a major slowdown in the amount of books I want to request an angel for, despite a rise in the amount of USA or UK only users. I am finding that more and more users are not willing or able to send out of their country, which has impacted international users like me. There may still be 500 Canadian users, but the reality is that it costs so much for us to send books that quite often international is cheaper. For those in the US and able to send media mail, $25 will send out about 8-10 books, depending on size. In Canada, I have spent that $25 to send out ONE book. My last mailout was 4 books to 3 users in the USA and still cost me almost $50. Its pathetic, and has a pretty major impact on how I use the site.

I was always willing to spend the points to give and send international. That has never been an issue with me. In order for the international part of the site to continue, people need to support it. Without the support of the international community, BM will become another PBS... and a poor subsitute at that. My mooches out have become fewer and fewer, in part I do believe because people are not willing to pay those 3 points for a book from Canada. And then again, without those mooches, I cannot choose to participate in the site. It's a circle, where the actions of one affect the actions of another.

I love BM, giving and receiving books, and will continue to support BM as long as I can. I know as soon as I am able to work more and afford to send out books again, I have boxes of books just waiting to be posted. In the meantime, I hope everyone will continue to support BM in whatever way they can because without our support and use of the site, it will certainly die.

Last week I requested two books from an "ask first" user from the US and I got them yesterday (^o^)
Very quick and books I really wanted, so that's nice :D
I'll keep my account of course, I'll probably want to add more books again in the future, but for the moment nothing from my wishlist is appearing (maybe I should make a request post again in the LT thread, after I've read a few more books from my TBR pile).

For those of you who say that nothing from your wishlist is appearing, do you follow the feeds?

For me it's probably a combination of things... but mostly I guess it is that instead of spending 3 points for an international mooch, I'd rather spend 6 euros or so (more or less what sending a book and getting 3 points costs me) and buy a new paperback from Book Depository. That, and I've been getting more ebooks (mostly of the $3 and under variety) lately.
It also happens that my TBR pile never seems to shrink too much, so it's not like I'm in a big urge to get more books. I still have about 20 pts, I hope to be able to do some domestic mooching at least...

>42 SqueakyChu: I follow the feeds but rarely find a hit, and the most recent one was an "ask first" which was turned down. I did get an Angel for it, but it's the first book in a while.

If you do follow the feeds, do you list enough books to be able to get a hit from time to time?

For example. I currently have 403 books on my wishlist. I do get hits from time to time, but I check the feed several times a week.

I have also noticed a big slow-down. Though I prefer BM, I've found myself getting more books from PBS in recent months. I definitely trace a shift in enthusiasm to the whole points bruhaha- it felt like the community just fractured at the point. I don't know- other members not listing books as I am doing is of course part of the reason I can't find books to mooch but I can't fault others for doing what I am doing which is try to spend down points. It does make me sad though because I was enthusiastic about BM and recommended it to lots of people, but now no longer do so...

I haven't commented much on the 3 points for international mooching because it has no effect on me. From my point of view, scarcely any of the books on Bookmooch are worth even 2 points, so I just don't request them from outside the US. Besides, I don't like the idea of waiting several months and not being sure if the book would arrive. 3 points costs me about $9.00, so it is usually simpler for me to buy books that are only available from outside the US.

As for my account, I ship internationally with 'ask first'. As I recall, I have only refused to send one book because it was so heavy.

I am still getting lots of hits because my wishlist is so huge.

>45 SqueakyChu: I have 600+ books on my wishlist, although some are very long shots.

It got to where I had to babysit my computer in order to snag any books. Books would come in the middle of night and by morning they were already snagged by someone else. I don't have a fancy smart phone that has internet on it. I quit bookmooch months ago and went over to paperbackswap where I don't have to babysit the site. I just have to make sure my name is in early at the top of the list for my favorites. It's first come first served there. The only bad thing is that they are more picky with their books so I have to be extra careful to examine anything that goes out.

I used to love both sites equally. I get way more hits on my wishlist on PBS now, which I constantly keep at 200. It seems like people just don't list as much as they used to on BM. I've started to follow the feeds more and refresh my moochable wishlist books. Doesn't seem to be working. I have almost 700 on my wishlist at Bookmooch and I'm not getting anything other than blogging/LT friends who see something on my wishhlist and contact me about it. I feel I can't post anymore books on BM until I bring my points down (currently have about 34 points).

I'm 3m on both sites if anyone wants to friend me. Or post one of my wishlist books!

http://bookmooch.com/m/bio/3m
http://3m.paperbackswap.com

I just can't afford the time and money for Bookmooch right now... DH got laid off and we've been moving a lot, and spring is a very busy time of year for me. Maybe later this summer I'll have more time for it. This combined with USPS raising their international rates significantly, means I can't afford to send large books overseas anymore.

#42 - Yes, I follow the feeds so even if I don't get an email, I should get a note saying one is available. Fact is NOTHING is available.

I've been on since 2006, mooched over 600 books, officially given away over 500 (really much higher than that since I run weird specials) so it has served a purpose for me. I would still like to find ways to burn up these 40 points I have.

As for the people who asked if other swap sites are also dying, titletrader is pretty much dead. PBS on the other hand is going relatively strong although I don't get a lot of wishlist books from them either, but at least it is more common to get them!

> 52

I *never* get a note from BM feeds about wishlisted books. I just check the feed list daily (or less often). About once a week, I find something I want. Anyway, that process works for me.

I get notices about wishlisted books, but they are always in a language I don't speak. I wish there was a language preference option.

I've been a big fan BM (and Jon's work) for a few years now. I'm fortunate to have a lot of access to inexpensive books from numerous sources so I'm part of it mainly because of the opportunity it gives me to recycle/declutter/see what other folks are reading and to interact with people from around the world. I believe I've gotten enough great reads--and some interesting trinkets--from international sources over the years to easily justify 3 points. Mainly, I like knowing that a book I am finished is finding a good home where it can be enjoyed again. I personally hope BM is in a temporary lull and Jon is still having fun doing it--I would really miss seeing packages from Asia, the UK, etc., in my mailbox.

I've been using BM a lot less lately. Some of it is because the books I want tend to be either ridiculously obscure so no one ever has them, or ridiculously popular so it's hard to snag one. But the biggest reason I've been using it less is that I bought an ebook reader, and I greatly prefer reading on my ebook reader over reading paper books. I still have a big room full of books, and I still love paper books, but reading on the ebook reader is so much easier. So now I take my old books to Half Price Books and use the cash they give me to buy ebooks instead. It's sad to see BM decline, but I think it's inevitable that book swap sites will decline as voracious readers switch to ebooks.

I definitely use BookMooch less. It's much harder for me to justify spending three points to get a book. For three points, it should be something that I've been wanting for a long time, or something that I couldn't reasonably expect to find while looking through a few large used bookstores.

I understand the "John is doing us all a favor" argument. I also have to look at how his choices have affected Canadians. Unless a book is quite thin, it can cost a lot to send domestically (I've spend $15 to ship a single paperback). In exchange, I get one point. If I do that three times, I can get a single book from the United States. People pointed out to him that shipping from Canada to Canada is more expensive than shipping from Canada to anywhere else in the world, so one point is not a reasonable exchange. He said something to the effect of, "That's something to think about." The bottom line, however, is that the changes he made to the site don't affect him, so he has made it clear that he doesn't care about any of the feedback he received. For me, the point increase, the retroactive change to ratios, and the apparent lack of concern about how the changes affect international users have definitely taken the fun out of what used to be a very rewarding treasure hunt.

Well said, sporcloid.

I used to get books in German and French, as well as Canadian titles that are hard to find down here. But between the points ratio change, international points change and being told that mooching internationally is bad for BM, I've restricted myself to only a few international mooches a year.

I just noticed that my total books given (397) already exceeded my books received (396). And yet my ratio explains that I received 1.57 books for every book I gave. The reason being I received more international books than I sent (I now send to my country only due to postal costs increase).

Given the already-high three-point increase in international requests, it feels like a "double penalty" when the received/given ratio does not reflect the actual number of books exchanged.

I use BM in bursts - especially when I find a new author and want to get the backlog. I received a book today, two yesterday, and several last week. I even got a nonfiction hit yesterday and quickly mooched it!

I've sent out and received over 400 books, and (still) have a perfect score.

Yes, I think it's harder to get good books, but sometimes it just happens to work out great.

I added 10 books yesterday to get a point to smooch to someone, but so far no requests on them. When I need more points, I'll add some more highly wishlisted books.

And since I paid over $30 EACH TIME I sent things internationally, I do not mail internationally. But I still mooch internationally and have not had anybody turn me down on an international mooch simply because I don't send books out internationally in over 2 years.

Slow and steady.

60 - Just so you know, USPS has these awesome padded flat rate envelopes now that I think are about $13 to Canada and $16 elsewhere internationally. You can fit ~3-4 MMPs in them. They're pretty new, only been around about a year and a half, and you have to request them (for free) from usps.com, the post offices are not allowed to carry them. If you ever felt like you might want to ship internationally again...

re: bookmooch dying, in the last 2 days two users have cancelled mooches on me for no discernible reason (neither replied when I asked them why) so it certainly seems to be losing its usefulness to me!

And in the last week, I've gotten three mooches accepted and two of them shipped - which are the first books that have popped up from my wishlist in several months. I haven't actually gotten the books yet (though I got one from bookel recently - but that was a Pimp Your Wishlist posting, not from my wishlist feed), but that's more activity than I've had in quite a while. And my previous two (?) requests were ignored until I cancelled - which is perhaps a fraction less annoying than having them cancel on me without reason.

Cycles.

I've seen a little more activity recently too. I think it's the summer reading season kicking in.

Things have been more active for me, too. And my recent mooches were sent to me within a week. I've also had some books mooched from me that had been on my inventory awhile.

I put my account "on vacation" for a while......money issues, mostly. Lately, I've been culling some shelves and have had quite a few Mooches from my inventory......always a good thing!! (I've even found a few gems...and one from my wishlist became available)...Don't give up hope!!

My SO's just given me a long list of desired books. I mooched eight that were immediately available (vacation'ing long-inactive accounts for two of those).

Three others are on their way from PBS.

All trading sites have their place and BM does serve an international community. One of the problems on BM is too many free points floating around BM and not enough books. Look at the stats page, the raw data, and you will see how many active points vs books in the system. Last time I looked a couple of months ago it was 3 points per book available in the system, not a great ratio.

For my friends, they still are not finding books on BM. In the past 6 months, one friend has received 5 books in the past 6 months, and when compared to PBS where in the past 6 months the user has received about 100 books. The same list is on PBS/BM; there are just more books on PBS and a larger community.

Is BM truly dying; maybe not, since dying would mean eventually there is no one left. do I think it will continue to decline until a small group is left and at that point John will need to determine the cost benefit factor and see if the site is worth keeping. Other sites have shut down when interest has dried up, I see the same coming to BM.

I think it is a grand idea and sharing books between countries but there are some flaws with how the economy of the site works and unless those are fixed, I don't see the site growing much.

68: Where's the stats page?

Yeah, fixating on the number of points in the system did make things decline. A large number of members had built up substantial points surpluses with no real plans to do anything with them. Then, when people were accused of points hoarding and the idea was floated of taking excess points away from people, those people reduced their inventories and spent their points, which didn't help BM, but prevented them losing points they'd earned. I know I donated a chunk of points to a BM charity and have operated on the principle of not having more than 10 points at a time.

I think BM mostly suffers from not updating the site and not publicizing it. I don't think that those are fatal flaws -- they'd be quick and simple to remedy. I do worry that even if the points system were returned to how it was, in regards to mooching internationally, a lot of the international (not US or UK based) are gone for good.

I'm still getting more books through BM than I am through PBS, and I have the expanded wish list on PBS. I think there is a subtle difference between the books listed on BM and those on PBS, with PBS having a larger number of bestsellers and popular titles, and BM having a lot from the smaller presses and less mainstream fare, at least in my experience. I also get lots of ARCs from BM, which aren't available from PBS.

I just tossed about twenty books on Bookmooch, something I've been meaning to do but just haven't gotten around to. Unfortunately, these are what I'd call the 'second tier' books - books that have already been on Paperbackswap for a while without attracting any requests, be it because they're too far down on the request queue or they're just not finding an audience.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is what a lot of folks are doing - listing first on another site and only 'trickling' the books down to BM after they fail to move elsewhere. I started doing this because I was getting more wishlist hits on PBS and needed the points there, and have continued to do so because I still haven't been finding much on BM.

69: http://bookmooch.com/about/stats

there are various stats. You do not have to be logged into BM to get to the stats page; the site if you are logged in makes them a little harder to find i think.

Wow; the charts are finally updated to May 2012. It has been a long time. I prefer the customize button myself as I can dig into the number and really understand what is occurring on the site.

Only 9% of members list books to give away. Wow. That's really low... :(

I only use one site being international, BookMooch. I'm still sending quite a bit, but it seems to have slowed down a lot, mainly because the major moochers I interacted with slowed down too, or stopped altogether. It could be due to budget, postage costs, and increasing living costs, but also due to BookMooch point changes themselves. I've noticed a few things (note, only from my experience):

Lately, or perhaps I ran into 'bad' experiences, 4 out of 5 recent cancels (only 13 cancelled on me in all) for requests of my books internationally were due to the moocher ignoring/failing to read the country name and how many points were used internationally (3), or realised they didn't have enough to mooch within their country and cancelled -- after a few days! Cancelled even though I have addresses written out and am about to send. Apparently moocher reliability doesn't come into it (I haven't rejected any, no lost sent, no neutral feedback, no negative feedback, I use condition notes, every book gets sent). The country and number of points used is seen on the mooch page before you officially mooch, where you select who you mooch from, and in the request email after you mooch. It appears "readers" do not really read at all, and I guess if the information is consistent and you do a lot of mooches, you do tend to skip a lot, but that was quite annoying as they were recent and fairly close together, particularly since I haven't rejected any mooches and nothing at all has been lost sending out (lucky with the post office). So far 1045 officially acknowledged received by other moochers and growing (846 sent international, not including pending). I couldn't survive on BookMooch without the international aspect! The majority of books I receive, too, are international. Since the 3 point change my ratio has gone down from 1.8:1 to 1.5067; I've been sending a lot more in order to mooch internationally.

On the positive side, I've received lots of wonderful books! Moochers are still mooching from me! Fantastic! I have though, put in a lot of effort to find books moochers might like. Sadly some I removed were books I thought people would want (and were wishlisted), but due to the moocher thinking 3 points were too much per book, or being inactive, they were not mooched. I've seen a lot of inactive wishlisters.

Many moochers told me when international points were 2 per book, that they were picky about what they mooched. Some mooched despite the 2 points, which I was grateful for. Now at 3 points per book I'm often told they don't think mooching internationally is worth it at all, will rarely mooch at 3, or won't at all. Quite a few don't have any choice in obtaining books overseas due to nothing of interest within the country (and I haven't had a lot of luck mooching within my country this year, a few but not many, and a few that were successful had the wrong books sent, not mentioned in acknowledgement notes, but was eventually sorted). Some don't care too much about the points, though it is difficult to earn them and more costly due to postage increases, and just want the books thank you very much. :)
For me it is still cheaper to obtain books via BookMooch than buying them internationally, per book. I still mooch any wishlist books that come up (condition and being nonsmoking pending), and still send, so I am as active as I am able to be. I have noticed since the 3 point change people don't smooch or charity points as much as they used to, though I have given points for various reasons.

It is possible the loss of 0.1 to acknowledge receipt of books reduces motivation of moochers to acknowledge received. I have nothing to back that up beyond having to remind several moochers by email (but that could be they were busy, not due to the fraction point loss), and another didn't acknowledge for several months beyond when I thought they'd received the books, with no email response (I know how long it takes by now, roughly, for parcels to get overseas) which was upsetting since I thought they were reliable, and made the difference between having under 1000 acknowledged received, and over, and wondering if people weren't mooching because of the length of time they'd been in pending. Acknowledgement of books arriving is now similar to sites like ebay or amazon where it's the moocher's reputation that counts and it being the polite, nice thing to do, and especially relieves the sender's worries about whether the book arrived or not!

Email communication too, is a good thing. The same moocher who didn't acknowledge for months, hasn't responded to emails for months (despite logging in several times), and still has 47 books to send me, many of them mooched last year, some more than a year ago. I've no idea when they'll be sent, or why the delay. That's the only reason for the drastic difference in number between pending receive and sent. I would like to clear pending receive. It's great when moochers are communicative, and some delayed for a reason (to fill a parcel) have done so, but with no idea when or why the 47 books will be sent, what am I supposed to think? It's upsetting, frustrating and disappointing that a once-reliable moocher is not communicating why or when they'll be sent... I would prefer to receive them before the end of the year, if possible? Especially since I did my best sending books they wanted, and they're all acknowledged received. I've already paid for the books mooched in postage paid on books sent. So far I have only found a few pending locally, but most books I am unable to find within the country secondhand.

I've added a lot to inventory, but also removed a lot since they weren't being mooched, and moved books on. I don't have heaps of shelf space for BookMooch books. A lot of books I listed were wishlisted! :(

I am really glad BookMooch exists because I have been able to receive books I never could have obtained otherwise, and I'm sure other recipients of books would think likewise. I'm so much closer to obtaining the majority of books by my favourite authors, than I would ever have dreamed. BookMooch has made hundreds of people happy. Keep BookMooch alive everyone!

>71 k00kaburra:

My 750+ BM wishlist languishes away.

I tend to get many more hits on PBS, and PBS is the first site I go to put up books.

I continue to post books that are less than pristine (with detailed condition notes of course), on BM.

It's funny, but I have double-listed my "like new" books on BM and PBS, and not one single book has been requested on PBS. But, I keep getting hits on my wishlist on PBS, but I can't request them because I have no points! BM has been somewhat more active just lately, but I have noticed a real slowdown since the big points change.

If I double-list, Murphy's Law goes into full effect, and I will get both requests simultaneously.

Perhaps what I should do is switch my lists betwixt the two sites, but I don't have the time, the organizational skills, nor the attention span to do this ;)

>76 dkhiggin: Be sure if you decide to buy points on PBS to buy them from other members in the Book Bazaar, they are so much cheaper than buying them from PBS. I've sold some there myself to have money for mailing out more books.

>78 rxtheresa:

I didn't even know you could do that! Thanks! I wii definitely buy from users now.

Something has definitely changed with BOOKMOOCH. I have received over 750 books from this system and now not only can I not find many books worth requesting for my points, but the people seem to no longer be willing to send the books that I do request. I have not received a reply about a book that I shipped three weeks ago, and no less than three people have ignored my most recent requests. Should I register a complaint about these people? The selection of books currently listed seem all to be 'housewives favorites.'

>80 JimThomson:

As far as people ignoring your requests...Some people don't do the "accept Mooch" thing...and just send the book(s)...I'd check the History of the people from whom you've requested books....if there is a lot of RED in there...bail out! If not...send eMails...you don't know an individuals system-for-sending...unless it's on their Profile page

Regarding the book you sent, three weeks ago?? I'd give it another week or two...if it's Domestic (USA) before i declared it lost

The current book selection does seem to be full of Romance Novels...and Self-Help Books.....i can't relate to them, either

72: Thanks, I was having a hard time finding it while logged in! Those graphs are really something, wow.

I have basically given up on Bookmooch. I mailed out a ton of books and accrued points but rarely found what I wanted to mooch. Then when I did I would get 'doesn't send overseas'. Adding to this Australia Post added a new surcharge for international postage. $9 on top of postage costs. It would be cheaper for me to buy a book now so I op shop (thrift) tons of books then donate them back for a discount voucher on my next purchases. I also go to libraries all over town to get what I want.

>83 secondhandrose: You mean they made that extra charge they were doing for airmail apply to surface mail as well? That's awful!

Tips on posting from Australia -- the $9 extra on parcels over 500 grams to the USA from Australia is for AIR MAIL ONLY, not seamail. It does not apply to Canada or UK etc. as far as I know, only to the USA. (I sent one recently over 500 g to Canada and it did not apply.) I have not heard of it being applied to seamail. For cheapest postage rates, send a thin book under 2 cm thick, which will enable airmail letter rate (cheaper than parcel rate). You can wrap in thin strong plastic, sealing with packing tape (I reuse packaging materials I receive that are a strong plastic, very handy!) to ensure a parcel is under 2 cm thick, that would otherwise be over 2 cm in a padded envelope, and it would still be waterproof and strong. I would suggest also trying to ensure there's room at one end to open the parcel with scissors without damaging the book (it's annoying when a parcel is wrapped so tightly there's no gap between at least one edge of the parcel and the book). You can also use a paper envelope and packaging tape all edges and seams (but ensure the book is enclosed in a thin plastic bag to prevent water damage during transit; I do this for all books sent). Preferably send light books, as postage escalates a lot with weight (see http://auspost.com.au/products-and-services/postage-assessment-calculator.html). Children's/young adult fiction are excellent candidates and there's plenty wishlisted. To request a book from overseas, try the BookMooch Angel Network: https://sites.google.com/site/bmangelnetwork2/home
I use BookMooch to find books I cannot find locally in charity shops or the library.

I've only been on BM for a little over a year, but I don't think it has changed much in that time. It waxes and wanes (especially after the site has been down), but sometimes I can get 5 books in a couple of days. I check my wishlist about twice a day, though. I don't rely on the email notifications. I've gotten some really excellent books I would have had to wait years for on PBS. I love bookmooch!

Does anybody else notice that the Bookmooch has been " slow" recently? or is it just me and my old computer?

I haven't had any problems with it.

I have found some pages are loading really slowly, but mostly searches. I know I should just give up on Bookmooch searches and search through Amazon instead, but that is a couple more mouse clicks.

Things have been looking up a little over here. I've had a run of WL hits, half of which I missed, but the rest are enough to keep things on my pending page. Here's hoping it keeps up.

BookMooch is still going okay for me. I still get a few requests per week and my inventory is down to just three boxes now. Until this weekend, I had wishlists hits trickling in, but it turned into a flood over the past two days. :-D It does get frustrating when people never accept mooches and I end up having to cancel though.

I would just do a title/author search on BookMooch via Amazon; it's way faster, and you can also include publisher name if you're after a specific book -- and it does show books that are available anyway! As a last resort I'd use BookMooch search alone. It still brings up irrelevant items, especially if searching by author with initials involved in the first and middle names (still wishing results were alphabetical, that would make it faster to browse at a glance). It is mainly searching BookMooch alone and opening history pages, which takes a long time. Apart from that BookMooch is normal speed lately.

After the change, I slowed way down on bookmooch (And the site associated with it here!).

Everyone here is just fantastic, but I was just disgusted with the way the change was handled. I used to go out of my way at library sales, etc to buy books that were highly wishlisted to post even if I didn't need the point yet because of the community. When that trust (retrospective changes? Not caring one whiff about Canadians?) was gone I stopped doing that. For a few months I rarely checked bookmooch at all, and sold most of my surplus books to the local used bookstore. I kept adding to my wish list (Now over 1,800).

I did keep reserving books for some specific friends to send to them, and occasionally would find one person (e.g. a friend, someone who had angled for me) who I could mail a box to at a time.

Only recently have I started getting back into bookmooch a bit, and I have noticed things picking up slightly. I recently sent out over 20 books. These were reserved for specific people, so not 'wild' books that anyone could grab, but should shorten the wishlists for others.

What I am noticing is a much larger percentage of USA 'will not send out of the country' books. Given the work involved in angelling, and the change from 2 points to 3, I have slowed down a lot. Combined with postal changes, the change meant an international book cost about 2-3$ to about 6$. So it is rarer that I will order one from other countries (But I still do on occasion). I still send nationally and internationally. I would still like that 3 month follow up we were promised, but stopped holding my breath when I passed out sometime last year :P

In short, I have some good friends here, and still some good finds. But the sense of overall bookmooch community that prompted me to go out of my way to find a post books, and the sense of trust that allowed me to build up large numbers of points for the future has been very damaged.

The Bookmooch statistics page (http://bookmooch.com/about/stats) has some interesting figures about Bookmooch's state of health. Particularly concerning is the number of current mooches which is now down to under 10,500 compared to over 22,500 just on 2 years ago. I posted those figures on Bookmooch's discussion forum, noting my concern, hoping to generate some discussion about how to reverse the slide. Bookmooch's response: they deleted my post!

:(

BookMooch's tendency to remove polite posts they disagree with is one of my biggest complaints. How can there be any sort of community with senseless censorship?

Maybe Buckman is tired of Bookmooch, but doesn't want to shut it down while it's active because of the bad publicity. So he's encouraging it to die...?

Hmm, your message isn't deleted ? *confused face*

http://bookmooch.com/m/forum/bm_stats/#message_8

I suspect it's just that BM's very own and peculiar brand of forum has a rather bizarre way of defaulting to a very short viewing delay for past messages, and some threads seem to bug outright (still displaying at the top of their sections even though they're old as Methuselah).

Certainly my international moocing has declined drastically since the change. In the past few months, tho, my domestic (U.S.) mooches have been pretty wonderful. I'm getting some fantastic books & sending out quite a few, too. These successes have helped remind me that it's Buckman I don't like, not Bookmooch itself.

This board has helped, too. I'm mostly a lurker, but I love reading the messages, almost all of which remind me why I fell in love w/Bookmooch to begin with.

98> That's odd. I posted it in the 'Is there a way' thread on the BookMooch Discussion forum, hence my first paragraph. It disappeared from there not long after but now it's reappeared on the BM Health forum. I suspect an overzealous admin who's had a change of mind or been overruled.

I am still getting books. Actually I've been getting quite a few mooches the last couple of months- more than I used to get. I still love Bookmooch. I wonder my increase in mooching it is because of less competition? I do think that paper books are becoming less common with time, so probably all book trading sites are experiencing a slow down. I'm hardly getting anything off PBS lately.

Both PBS and BM work in odd, unpredictable cycles for me.

My last wish list email was way back in September 2012 .. got 2 and both "could not find the books". I am just about giving this site up as "lost".

i have noticed a slow-down in the number of books i'm finding, but it's still really useful and i'm still finding things from time to time, enough to keep me on the site- though not enough for me to dump a huge pile of books into my inventory and rack up points i can't use. but i guess that's the vicious cycle. if i listed more books, more people would find those books leading to the impression of greater selection. but we all have to do it so we can all spend the points we'd be earning!

I don't think paper books are becoming less common; one look at the piles and piles of them in used bookstores, charity shops and my living room is enough to persuade me that we are awash in paper books. I think people are not listing them on BM for various reasons including postage rates, better return on them by just selling them, etc. But when every yard sale, church and library sale, charity store etc. etc. has more books than they know what to do with, it's hard to say they're disappearing.

Is there a way to export my BookMooch history to a Excel file? I'd like to try crunching some numbers on the frequency and success of my mooches by month or year, and hand entering all the data is going to be an immense pain.

I know I can export my wishlist, but I haven't found a way to do this for my history.

>105 MyriadBooks: You can use the userid API to create an XML file -- I don't know how well that is imported into Excel though.
http://bookmooch.com/api/api

>105 MyriadBooks: And if you do have to resort to copy/paste at least the table does map to cells and you don't have to type it all. (I will admit to simply c/ping from time to time, but I have half the transactions you do.)

Because BM has been slow for me lately and my pending page has actually been BLANK recently, I just went browsing around mooching all sorts of random stuff that I wasn't exactly looking for, but hey, spare points! (though, no more shelves to put said books on.)

It was weird to log onto Bookmooch this morning and realize that I only received about fifty books last year. I know that still sounds like a lot, but it's less than half the books I requested in 2011....and in the first couple of years that I was on Bookmoch I was sending and receiving hundreds of books.

The thing that seems more and more noticeable is the lack of Buckman presence. In the beginning, I remember fairly regular blog posts - updates on a monthly basis, perhaps? But I can't even remember the last time I saw an official blog update from him, or indeed anyone working/volunteering with the site.

Edit to add: Of course, I find the "new" forums (not so new anymore) counter-intuitive and difficult to browse, so I could be missing updates that way, I suppose.

I think "counter-intuitive and difficult to browse" describes BookMooch generally :)
That wasn't one of the things that made me unhappy with it, but it did limit its usefulness.

Most sites of this type attempt to upgrade their abilities over time as things improve and to keep them fresh. Nothing seems to have changed since I joined years ago. If they've lost interest I do wish they would sell to someone who could breathe new life into it.

I dont do international mooches either way so was unaware of a point fee raise

It used to be that BookMooch kicked an extra point in, so it cost you two to mooch, but paid the moochee three, and mooch ratios were tweaked to encourage international mooching. Then Buckman decided to insert his head all the way up his own sphincter change things retroactively. And we are all reaping the benefit.

112

I think he did that because people were complaining of all the points inflation. Which is true, this did cut it down. There also used to be an additional point bonus if you posted a wishlist book.

I've been sending about a billion books it seems, 2012 was a good year for me to send, I think I barely sent any the year before. My problem has been the lack of books to mooch. I am in the US and the only books I want are from people who will not send outside their own country even though I know their country has surface mail (and I have yet to find an angel to help) and I am constantly sending books overseas.

Well, I'm glad that the points inflation issue is solved. I guess fewer moochers willing to list fewer books and a marked decrease in the number of people willing to send internationally was a price he was willing to pay. So solving a theoretical problem caused substantial actual harm to the site.

I'm still waiting for Buckman to reveal how the changes affected the site.

My mooching has slowed dramatically since the retroactive changes and international point increase. I do think BM is dying, and it's too bad...

> I think he did that because people were complaining of all the points inflation

Did people actually complain? The only one I've seen who thought this was a problem was Buckman himself. I admit that I could have missed some discussions, though (not following th BM forums very carefully).

#113 - yes, points inflation was one of the reasons mentioned. And the stupid thing is that there was so much good will around at that point that he could have solved it really simply. By asking people to voluntarily give up some of their points. Tithe them for the good of the system.

The other incredibly stupid aspect to the change was that he kept going on about how the site needed to differentiate itself from other book swapping sites. It was pointed out by many of us that BookMooch's greatest point of difference was that it encouraged international mooching, and that the changes he was proposing would hurt that aspect of the site.

116 - Um yes, it was non-stop constant complaining for several months... dare I say it might have actually gone on for years. I've been on BM since 2006 so I am an old member.

117 - He did ask people to get rid of the points. Remember those charities were not always there, nor could we always send points to others. There was also lots of people who thought we should get rid of the 0.1 point acknowledgement bonus, same with the book adding bonus. The latter was decided against because it would be a problem for new members. The former people think that others would stop acknowledging books. This was before we could do a force receive.

#118
Donating to charities and so on was always encourgaed, yes, but that wouldn't make a difference to the inflation problem. The problem was the number of points in people's accounts as it related to the number of transactions taking place. What I'm talking about was literally destroying the points -- tithe them to the system, then they disappear forever. Another thing that was suggested was that the points total could be capped, so no-one could go beyond X many points (and again, extras would be "disappeared"). I think that got rejected as being unfair to people who might get a large number of international requests for a single, a-typical transaction.

>119 joannasephine: Yeah, I don't see how capping points would be good. I've about 50 these days, should I be penalized for not being in a hurry to spend them at once, versus someone who makes sure they always stay low (and won't be 'tithed') by not listing many books and spending their points as soon as they can ? Which of the two behaviors is *really* the more harmful one ?

I'm not planning on withdrawing from BM yet, while there's been a slowdown I still get and send some books now and then so good enough for me.

It seems like not much has been happening on Bookmooch lately, yet when I looked over my transactions for the past year I realized I have actually received some wonderful books. It seems to go in spurts. The problem is that naturally one is reluctant to spend money shipping books when lots of points are on hand already and nothing seems to be coming up on the wishlist. It's tempting to just donate them to the library. Of course, if we all do that then no one has anything to mooch. I'm not sure what the answer is to that one.

The apparent lack of management presence or interest could be a contributor to the overzealous admin behaviour that's been discussed here recently. Bookmooch is indisputably looking old and tired. While that doesn't necessarily affect usability it must make a big impression on potential new users.

All my mooching has been international, due to living in Norway, and wanting English books. Hardly anyone will send to me anymore, and most of the books on my wish list have been there for ages. Granted, I have some pretty weird wishes, and most of the interesting books in my inventory have been mooched. I also realize postages just keeps going up. Recently I was sick for an extended period, and I discovered iBooks, this along with Gutenberg.org, was a godsend. I now download books I will only read once and then delete them. When you think of it, this is much more ecologically friendly than sending a book internationally, using fuel. Not so romantic as the fat packages with exotic stamps, however. I'll remain a member of Bookmooch, and I am grateful for the many hours of pleasure I have received and the many nice people I have "met". Perhaps bookmooch, like the video cassette is an idea whose time has come and gone.

I dont see any problems. Dont write books off just yet

2009 - 33 books mooched
2010 - 29 books mooched
2011 - 11 books mooched
2012 - 1 book mooched

It just became too hard for me to get the books I want. I don't have one of those smart phones so I just can't stay glued to bookmooch hoping I could snag a book before anybody else. I gave up a long time ago.

I don't have a smart phone either but then I also mooch outside my wishlist.

Well for me

Mar 2011-Aug 2011- 111 books mooched
Sep 2011-Feb 2012- 79 books mooched
Mar 2012-Aug 2012- 63 books mooched
Sep 2012-Feb 2013- 59 books mooched

It does seem there is a slowdown, but I think that may be more (or at least as much) because I am becoming pickier about what I mooch. That is, the easy-to-get things I wanted I got right at the beginning. And now there are lots of series I'm trying to complete instead of lots of series I want to try one book from.

I suspect all paper media are slowly dying, and it doesn't have much to do with bookmooch itself. I've had a similar slowdown on PBS.

#127 That is a good point about becoming pickier about what you mooch after you have been on the site for a few years. I also find myself buying less at library book sales simply since I've collected so much to read already that I don't buy anything unless it is fairly compelling. In my first couple years on Bookmooch I mooched all kinds of things that I wouldn't bother with now simply because I was so excited about acquiring books. I'm now putting more effort into actually trying to get them all read.

I guess there's still some paperback pablum out there.

It's not that I really think I'm going to be able to mooch a fair copy of Codex Seraphinianus any day of the month, but my wishlist is really languishing.

There's very little Pynchon or Foster Wallace or Dostoyevsky or Woolf either. And, there isn't any nonfiction of interest, as well.

Oh well, I guess after all, it isn't called literaturemooch.

I do have better luck finding off-beat and hard to find books on BookMooch than on PBS. I think the classics will get gradually harder and harder to find because they are generally free if you use an ereader.

Bookmooch still really suffers from not being efficiently browsed by subject. When I take the time to run ridiculous queries or search by small publishers or whatever other work arounds I can conceive of at any given moment I usually find one or two very interesting items, but that's a lot of work to put in just to see what's available.

Even if the subjects as pulled from Amazon are half-wrong, it would still be easier to find things. I often look for science and math books and it's an exercise in futility. Math books in particular usually don't have "math" in the title.

And the term "classic" means you might want to keep your copy.

132: Also true!

I have been posting a little more in prep for moving, mostly the more lightweight books, or books I want to makes sure go to a loving home.

Here are some statistics for me:

Year Added Mooched Given
2008 32 9 22
2009 30 68 28
2010 122 155 98
2011 106 113 86
2012 120 125 111
2013 12 42 18 *actual numbers multiplied by 3 since the year is only 1/3 gone

I think I became an angel in 2010, hence the higher numbers beginning then. Obviously, I have received more books than I have given, and for that I am grateful, but the decrease in usage seems obvious to me. I dropped off the angel list in February because I don't want to build up any more points and postage is just getting outrageous. I am constantly looking for eBooks from Project Gutenberg to replace paper copies and have found many from my wishlist there, too. I really am afraid BM is dying...

I've said it here before but I think ebooks have a lot to do with the amount of activity on BM. And I think this discussion of BM dying might have also. I know I decided I needed to bring down the number of points I was carrying after this and other discussions. I've had a a lot of books that would be mooched I'm sure, but I just don't want more points right now. And the postal rates will only make it worse I fear.

I hesitate to blame ebooks simply because if that were to blame, PBS would suffer a similar decline - and that isn't the case. I'm getting more wishlist hits than ever over there! I think that ebooks may contribute to declines in newer titles on both sites, but the impact really hasn't been all that big yet.

That's interesting - I'm not on PBS just BM.

I'm having just as big of a problem with getting books on PBS as BM now (and I have a Gold Key membership with a 300 books maxed out wishlist!). I think the main reason the books I want aren't available on PBS though is that I see tons of message board posts there saying "Why should I bother to post books when I can buy credits for less than it costs to ship?" If everyone thought that way, there would be no books posted at all.

I like the FIFO system of paperbackswap.

Thought that I might try to revive this year-old thread.

I have used BookMooch off and on for years, but generally had too many points and too much shipping out. It wasn't my first choice for trading books.

I used GoodReads Swap heavily until its demise in fall of 2011 (?) Then I used BookIns and Swap.com. Bookins died last summer--it no longer exists--and Swap.com went out of business on 30 April this year (2013).

I had been using BooksFreeSwap and PaperbackSwap occasionally, and am now left with only those two. Have put my inventory of about 400 on ChangoBooks.com too, but it is really tiny and inactive.

About a month ago, BookMooch decided that I wasn't authorized to enter the site any more, even though I had inventory and some trades that I was waiting for. (I think that they all came.) My pleas for help went unanswered.

I LOVE trading books, for environmental and financial reasons, as well as the social part. Things seem to be going downhill fast with online trading though. I don't know what's happened in the past 1 1/2 to 2 years, but hope that it isn't decline in literacy--unlikely in such a short time! It could be e-books though--hope not--hate 'em.

A small ray of hope is a site that someone is trying to set up using the Swap.com model--MediaSwap.com. Right now they're trying to get enough signups to see if there will be enough interest to make it worthwhile. Basically, books will be traded one for one (matched by computer) and the receiver pays the postage. (This is important to me, and one thing that I don't like about BookMooch and PaperbackSwap.) After things get going, three-way trades will be instituted. This is the Swap.com model and it generated a lot of trading!

So I'm counting on BFS, PBS, and maybe MediaSwap.com, if it gets off the ground. I think that it will, because there were a lot of disgruntled Swap.com users when that closed last month.

Maybe I'll see some of you there? Hope so!

PS Sorry--I hadn't read far enough to realize that this thread is pretty current.

I also wanted to add that I had available points when I got shut out of BookMooch--really not fair! And I didn't have any conflicts with the management, or anything like that.

>140 KarenRice:
See the thread in this group about being shut out of your account. It is a common complaint. I am dealing with it myself.

I found BooksFreeSwap worse than useless. The site was difficult to use and it sucked money.

I am saddened by the decline in bookmooch activity. I am still willing to send worldwide, but for the moment I dont even have an inventory posted because when all the hulabaloo started with the changes, i realized that I had more than 900 points and if bookmooch was going to die I needed to redeem those points before I sent out any more books. The problem has been that there has also been a decline in books being posted for mooching. Since the massive changes I have managed to whittle down my surplus to only 80 points, (thanks to giving some to charity and getting books for friends and family) but since the beginning of the year I have only mooched 4 books...

I still believe in sharing my books with anyone in the world, but I can't afford to continue sending, when i can't find books to mooch in return. It is truly a tragedy that the system isn't working like it used to. I wonder if John has simply given up on the program.

I agree- I have stopped posting books as I have not found anything for a while. I used to send and mooch books from Australia and the U.K.- but not for a long time. I think that I check my bookmooch wish list about once a month now. I used to check it daily.

I'm stuck in that sad, frustrating BookMooch cycle: I'm not mooching as much *only* because I have such a huge backlog of TBR books that make me feel guilty about bringing anymore books into the house. Therefore, I'm not actively trolling thrift stores for books to buy and put in my inventory, since I don't *need* anymore points right now. Since my inventory has essentially been the same for a good year now, all that's left is pretty much what people don't want... So no one mooches from me.

Heather - I seem to have the same problem. And when a few do show up that I might be interested in, I find I usually pass on them because I have a huge TBR pile also and don't want to add to it until I get it a little bit under control.

Huge TBR pile in my house, too, and most of it from Bookmooch. Maybe Bookmooch has been too successful for some of us, leading to our decline in use.

Heather,

That in itself, wouldn't stop me. I've about 800 books piled up over here. I'd add a few score more with no reservations, but BM simply doesn't have the quality titles, of interest to me.

My sympathies go out to those saints who have 100+ BM credits, or more.

Lean pickins' in BM land...

It's been several months since I have mooched anything. I have zero points. I get books from paperbackswap and if I really want it I'll buy it from half.ebay.com or amazon.

I think the thing that kept people listing books when they had plenty of points and listing new hardcovers and hard to find books was the sense of community that BookMooch fostered. It meant that people felt they were participating in something good, and that it didn't matter if you didn't get a good value for the money spent; you knew that all over the world people were a little happier because you sent them books. I used to get postcards and friendly notes in books sent to me.

The the site owner stated bluntly that he was the only person of value at BookMooch and there was a sense that something valuable had been lost. We'd thought we were members of a community. Turns out we were ungrateful moochers, especially those who were "stockpiling" points like wartime hoarders (who had thought of themselves, until that moment, as people who enjoyed giving books more than getting them and who had felt the points weren't very important at all).

So we went from a community of shared interests to a commercial entity. A lot of people aren't posting all those books because why would they? A lot of people have gone on to find other resources to find the books they want.

I have a tall stack of books to deliver to my local Friends of the Library organization. Earlier, they would have been put up on BookMooch with joy. Look at our forum here. It used to be so busy and friendly.

I agree Kay - very well said. I felt I had to spend my points down so I didn't get stuck with unused points if the site folded. I just took @ 70 books to the local library for the FOLS which were ones I know would have been mooched.

Ditto. One of the FOL book sales I go to always has lots and lots of ARCs. Previously I'd have posted them on Bookmooch, but now I'm spending down points. I know I could list them in the special thread at PBS but I don't really need points there, either. So they go to various book sales.

I get nearly all my books online because I have a chronic medical condition that keeps me housebound most of the time. I enjoyed BookMooch and PBS for a long time but I got spooked after BM put my account "on vacation" and cancelled my mooches. It took me longer than I expected to spend down my PBS points to where I was comfortable posting books again.

What I enjoyed the most were serendipitous finds, the books I didn't know I wanted until I found them. Kind of makes up for not being able to get out much.

I am currently working on a major purge of my apartment, mainly books (cuz that's what's taken over) but other stuff as well. I'm anticipating having over 500 books to re-home once this is done. It is doubtful that BookMooch will see more than a few of these. I don't see WL items enough anymore, and when they do pop up, they are from someone who cannot send to Canada. I know I could get an angel, but honestly, for the cost/points perspective, it doesn't add up anymore. There is no more suface mail out of Canada, and I've seen the prices on stuff arriving from the US lately, and it has gone up drastically. I don't need the points badly enough to justify posting the books.

I used to think of BM first when looking for a book, or giving a book away. Now, it is usually the last place I look. Sad how things could go downhill so quickly, and disapear.

I think the USPS is trying to keep first class rates w/in the US as low as possible, so in order to deal with Congressional mandates it has raised overseas rates. I was really shocked when they doubled but I can see how it was a political necessity. I just think Congress has its head up its ass. This is, however, nothing new.

Maybe instead of raising postal rates they should sponsor a few less sports venues/athletes. That would save them some money. I think the days of waiting for an email to appear telling you a baook is available are long gone. With instant feeds to mobile devices, etc, unless you stalk BM many times a day, and hit it just exactly right, any books that don't have a gazillion copies just won't make it.

I still get wishlist hits every few days. However, they are rarely books that I would be willing to pay 3 points for (which translates to at least $9). I can buy new mmp at Bookdepository or used at Betterbookworld for less than that, with free shipping to Canada.

I really dislike mmps. I keep most of my books--trying to get out of that habit--and they deteriorate just sitting on the shelf. Penguins are better but they still get brown.

Well, mmpbs aren't intended to be permanent, or even particularly long-lived.

I used to think Bookmooch was dying, but in the last months I've rec'd some wonderful books from Bookmoochers -- literary fiction, university press stuff, all kinds of great things. So I'm encouraged & have begun listing a few more in turn. I'm hoping for a resurgence. Despite Buckman & the almost pathologically rude help admins, it's still a great site.

I'm the exception - still being the happy BookMoocher. I don't accumulate many points, nor do I keep a large inventory. I do not post overseas, nor do I request books from overseas. BM still works quite well for me.

There are 9 requests for US angels on Bookmooch's Angel Requests forum at the moment (http://bookmooch.com/m/forum/angel_requests_2010_may/0/14) if anyone can help. That's easily the most I've seen and possibly indicative of a growing problem which I won't attempt to diagnose here.

>161 susanbooks: That's pretty much how I feel. I had just mooched four nice books when the admins decided I needed to go on vacation for a few weeks.

>163 gimboid13: And then there's the requests unanswered here on LT. There was one of them that I could have picked up, but frankly I'm also falling out of love with BookMooch, and am both low on disposable income and loath to accumulate any more points.

In common with others, I use BM much less frequently. Almost all my new book acquisitions are eBooks, I have had over 120 points for a couple of years or so, and wishlisted books hardly ever come up, plus the rising cost of postage, all mean that using BM is just not an attractive option for offloading paper books. That sense of a community doing good for other readers across the world has declined, it seems.

I wonder if the USPS would consider reinstating sea mail.

151 = 153

I didn't really mean to sound like such a curmudgeon. I too am still thrilled when I can provide a book that is wanted by some other stranger. BM still provides that sense of charity.

I am one who has also started donating books to the library rather than accumulate more points and risk being perceived as a point hoarder. I'm kind of fretting that all the angelling I did has created a point imbalance and might cause problems for me. At the time I did it because I felt I was contributing to the community but now I worry that the point accumulation is perceived as a negative. I don't pick up books to list on Bookmooch at library sales like I used to. I'm not finding as much to mooch so I don't know what I'd do with a lot of points. I also now have a large TBR so am getting pickier about what I mooch. I have a few books in my inventory, but not as many as before. If my points go down or I start finding lots of things to mooch I would add more to my inventory.

During my recent contretemps with BM support, they said people had complained over my point imbalance, because I had gotten extra points from posting books and also sending them overseas. So because I had mooched more books than I sent this was seen as not being in the spirit of the community. I'm not sure what to make of this, since I'm not trying to game the system.

I've removed my inventory for the time being. I'll be re-posting them soon, after I've gone over them for stains, loose pages, etc.

I missed any rancor between John and members and probably a lot of other people did, too. So, I don't think that is why activity has ceased generally. Last year I had a brief burst of mooching wishlisted books and now its been months since any have shown up. I send one or two books a month if I got them from bookmooch but I used to post many more because it was cheap to mail. No longer. I've given hundreds of points to charities who seem to have thousands of points now but no books to mooch.

So, for me the main thing is I'm not getting books, and I have no incentive to post books. I have about 200 points and I try not to mooch internationally because I got tired of nasty remarks about not sending internationally (though I sent over 100 in earlier years).

It is sad but other site useage is also generally down. PBS can't get rid of many of the books they sell in their Market and now try to say they are giving some of them "free" for just one credit plus shipping. Many people have informed them that ain't free babe.

I volunteer for a Friends of the Library and while we are getting thousands of books each month, very few are from the last 3 or 4 years. Why? Kindle, Nook, IPad, etc. So people went digital and are dumping their books, not buying new books to donate to us later. We are drowning in books, sales are way down. I wish all of you could come to the library and get these books ! We sell them cheap, very cheap.

I've been a bookmooch member since 2007 and the original forum was a lot of fun and it was a real community. There were a lot of technical problems with the forum so it was switched to the Bookmooch server and divided up by subject or whatever and as far as I'm concerned the community has never been the same. That was a big difference, too.

I recently gave in and mooched a book I don't really want - I might read it and might not. I just got nostalgic and needed to get a book from bookmooch. Rather pathetic!

Yeah you pretty much can't win if you were a busy moocher. If you had a big stockpile of points because of your generosity, you were a point hoarder and bad for the system. If you used those points, and inevitably ended up mooching more than you sent, especially if you sent a lot internationally, then you were taking advantage of the system by taking more than you were giving.

I've been busy having babies and we've moved a zillion times since I first joined Bookmooch. I'm getting my USPS fix (and then some) by hosting co-ops.

My mom recently joined Bookmooch and has been happy to see her books go to a good home. She doesn't plan to mooch anything, she'll probably just donate the points.

My activity has primarily been related to Books for Keeps and angel mooches for the only person I still angel for.

But I am thinking of trying to get some co-op people to join the site by offering them some of my points if they post some books. :)

Yeah but if new people join and then get points from you, they'll be flagged as scammers if they try to use them :(

>173 Amtep: Has this actually happened? I am trying to get someone to join and take some of my points.

Is it possible to create a new thread for this topic? It isn't always opening for me and can take ages to load.

I remember another dispute with bookmooch admins where that happened, but I don't have a reference :( So it's based on my fallible memory. I think it was because their ratio goes up so fast.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/155365

Link to new topic.

This Topic is now closed..do not post here.

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fixed link; thanks!

The above links to 'create a new topic'. Follow this link to to the existing new topic instead:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/155365

(I'm borrowing from your excellent ending, ZoeyEve.)

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