Ask the experts!

I need a little help on this one. I'm driving down to a distant bookstore on Sunday to pick up some Grove Press books and a John Colleton.

They also have a Grove Press copy of Sadopaideia.
Now, I have Muriel, Juliette, and Cecil Prendergast. Is there a difference?

I could do more research, but it's much more fun to hear from you.

Wikipedia's entry gives Sadopedia as being first published in 1907 in two volumes ... so theoretically Grove might have released them with different titles. Or M,J&CP could be one of those 'in the style of' Victorian erotica (technically Edwardian erotica) books - are Muriel & Juliette in the original? I see CliffordDorset has a copy - no doubt he could help.

I can understand driving a long way to a bookstore, it sounds like what you should do on a sunday. Good luck with your trip.

Yeah. I'm currently at work, in a used bookstore, then tomorrow, I'm working at my other job, in a library. Then Sunday I'm driving to another used bookstore.

It's a good life.

Update: Just talked to them, and they're going to pull:
Beatrice
Vanessa
Nymph in Paris
Secret Talents
Beauty and the Birch
and, best of all: Between Cloris and Amy by John Colleton

Good times

I want to work in a used bookstore because every time i go into one it feels like the only real thing i did that day. I need to go places too because i just stay put. I always feel like other people are mysterious and i like that feeling, like angels.
my name is hollis.

It's nice-most of the people you meet are book lovers.

And there's nothing like the feeling of having someone ask you: "I know this is a shot in the dark, but do you have..." and handing it to them. Happened today, in fact.

Sounds like a nice haul! I just finished Between Cloris and Amy, it's great, although if you plan on reading more Colleton, you should start with The Trembling of A Leaf, since that's the first book in the series.

The Erotic Print Society edition of Beatrice illustrated by Lynn Paula Russell is a particular favorite of mine. Can definitely second Lenny's recommendation for The Trembling of a Leaf

Oh my god-an illustrated Beatrice? That would be great.
Heck, I've published books (and do a webcomic). I could illustrate a Victorian erotic novel. Venus in the Country, anyone?
I'd like to start with The Trembling of A Leaf, but this is the first Colleton I've run across. I want to sample it before I commit to spending more money.

Gordon Grimley's Beatrice was part of series of hardcover classics with specially commissioned illustrations by different artist, the Scarlet Library. I haven't been able to track down a full bibliography of the series on line, but titles included The Autobiography of a Flea, Fanny Hill, The Way of a Man with a Maid and so forth. I should really pick up the last title in particular, as the illustrations are by Tom Sargent, whose work I really love. Some of them turn up in his Fireside Orgies, but it would be good to have the book.

EPS are long gone, sad to say, though the series shouldn't be too hard to find or expensive. (not yet, anyway!) I haven't seen anything new from Sargent since they folded, would like to know what he's up to.

A great erotic novel deserves a fine set of naughty illustrations, and as Victorian rudery is a particular passion of mine, I'd be most interested to see what you might make of Venus in the Country. Colleton surely deserves a lavish reprint, though the whole series would be a major project. I can just imagine it illustrated in the high style of the 70's erotic photography we've been discussing over at Sex Between The Covers.

> 10

Yes, Colleton should be illustrated with photos. That's not just because of the precedent set by the covers, but because of the thematic content.

In a "lavish reprint," I would imagine each two of the original series bound together as a hardbound volume.

> 10

EPS's Scarlet Library series released 14 volumes (Fanny Hill accounted for two of them). Sargent, one of my own favourites, illustrated both The Way of a Man With a Maid and its not-quite-a-sequel, A Weekend Visit - inexplicably he is credited as 'Tim Major'. Perhaps one or the other is his (her?) real name. The Vania Zouravliov images for Eveline are also excellent.

A near complete list for Erotic Print Society's publications, with links to individual cover images, can be found here: http://www.books-by-isbn.com/1-898998/ & http://www.books-by-isbn.com/1-904989/

> 11 I agree-Colleton should be illustrated with photos. But photos done in the soft-focus style of the 70's.
This thread is becoming more suitable for the Sex Between the Covers group. It's more about the visual representations of erotica.

Read 'THE SHE DEVILS,' a nineteenth century work by a french author who writes elegantly (of course) about a prostitute who raises her illegitimate daughters to be hard-core, perverse and masochistic whores, starting before puberty. The degree of perversity here is hard to separate from the elegant writing, to the point that one is not sure if the text is actually describing what it seems to refer to. The story is mostly psychological, probing how such seemingly nice girls could be trained to do and endure such extreme abuse. This is not for the easily shocked. Ladies beware!

Kind of reminds me of the Lon Chaney silent: "West of Zanzibar," where he plays a man who believes his wife became pregnant by another man. She dies and he's crippled. So, to punish his rival he takes the baby to Africa and raises her as a dissolute prostitute, only to find out the truth at the end. One cool thing-Chaney plays a man paralyzed from the waist down through the second half of the film.

By the way, I checked Muriel, Juliette and Cecil Prendergast, and it appears to indeed be Sadopaideia. Mystery solved!

I'd love to know the photographer of the Colleton is. The photographer for the cover of The Naked Countess of Liechtenstein, which seems out of sorts with the other Colleton covers, is Carl Kravats, who a simple google search finds is now a food photographer!

I've just got back to catching up on the LT threads. Sorry I failed to respond before your trip, groovykinda. I hope your book-hunting expedition was productive.

Sadopaideia is one of the better examples of the erotic genre, and Cecil Prendergast is usually the name associated with it, although some of the editions, such as the Wordsworth Classic Erotica edition, sticks to Anonymous. Most erotica of its era, however, used heavy overlays of anonymity, and I don't think the name Prendergast arises anywhere else. I don't have the Grove edition, and it would be interesting to hear if there is any prefatory material which throws light on authorship. I have quite a few of the wonderful Grove Press editions from the period, and although they vary somewhat in their quality, are all collectible.

You should be aware that this book was reprinted in 1989 by Blue Moon as The Interrupted Boston - the title of Sadopaideia's Chapter 1. Bearing in mind the difficult I have in remembering the spelling of 'Sadopaideia', the pragmatic Blue Moon probably felt their alternative was more 'commercial'; not that they were averse to perverse title changes, some of which might just possibly lead to the suspicion that they saw a commercial advantage in using a 'new' title for an old work.

LordBangholm, perhaps you are aware that Venus in the Country was re-issued by Blue Moon as Pamela (NOT the Samuel Richardson classic), by Patrick Henden (1990). An excellent book - the scene between Edmund and his sister Agnes being one of my favourites, despite (or because of?) its humorous 'making free with family ties'!

Regarding Colleton, I agree that a reprint series would be welcome - I have achieved my (minor) ambition of collecting all of the known novels of his, but he does deserve to be better known. I have heard whispers, though, that his remaining family - still respectably resident in Charleston, South Carolina - are still unwilling to provide information about this side of his life, because of potential damage to the reputation he gained nationally as a prolific writer of 'non-erotic' (mostly short) writings.

The problem with using photographs in erotic literature, perhaps more than in other genres, is that the human imagination doesn't really like being contradicted. I find it fascinating enough to know that he interviewed beauties such as Lollobrigida as part of his other career, not to mention the possible recognisability of prominent Charlestonians. The thought that some well-known society figures might have enjoyed being spanked might cause apoplexy!

I agree also that his books should be read in their published sequence.

Thanks, lennynero, for the link to Carl Kravats, which was news to me.

Finally, please allow me to lament the passing of the EPS.

You are to be congratulated, groovykinda, on making use of this forum so productively!

Clifford, thanks for the tip on Venus in the country / Pamela - Sexy, humorous, period erotica - sounds like it's right up my street and I'll definitely be looking for a copy.

Congratulations to groovykinda seconded - great to see so much activity here!

LordBangholm-Venus in the Country is such a treat. And CliffordDorset, I was just re-reading it and really enjoying the Agnes/Edmund chapters. Truly a great pairing. I wish there had been a sequel starring those two.

This forum has been wonderful, not only for the recommendations, but for the scholarship as well.

Since my recommendation of 'Venus in the Country' has been met with some approval I am tempted to suggest another of my favourites - 'Vanessa', by Anonymous (NOT the Hugh Walpole book of the same name), which was issued by Grove Press in 1986 (ISBN 0-394-62126-3), and re-issued by Blue Moon in 1992 as The Vicar's Girl under the authorship of 'Mandeville Hardaway' (fnar fnar!)

Well, CliffordDorset, based on your recent review of Vanessa, I picked up a copy at a local bookstore. I've sort of browsed through it. The writing reminds me of Venus in the Country, though it seems less humorous. I'll get back to it, right after I finish the first 5 JohnColleton novels (based on your recommendation) and Westbury (based on your recommendation).
Thanks again! I'm almost done with The Trembling of a Leaf and I'll post a review soon.

Vanessa / The Vicar's Girl is still available new: The New Traveller's Companion Series, Number 80 (perfectbound), or as an e-Pub or Kindle file for a buck, both here:
http://www.olympiapress.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_descrip...

As is Venus in the Country, Arabella: The Pursuit of Desire, and Miriam, three of my favorites. Time to think about that e-reader.

Can I ask if any members can shed any light on the masters of the 'Case Studies' genre: Gerda Mundinger and Guenther Klow?

For a long time I went along with the argument that both authors were just two of the pseudonyms of Paul Little, but the whole issue has been tipped into turmoil by the recent rise of Garth Mundinger-Klow, whose publications, quite prolific, follow the same sub-genre but, in my humble opinion, nothing like as well. In one of his recent collections he claims to be the son of Guenther and Gerda. and if this claim is true then we must deduce that both cannot be Little.

Gerda Mundinger had quite a few of her books published by Grove Press in the 70s, and I find her work superior to that of Guenther Klow, but both are still better written and more interesting than the 'upstart' Garth.

If anyone has any real knowledge of this situation, I'd love to hear it. We seem to know less about the erotica of the post 1970 era than we do of the Victorian/Edwardian era, when such material was illegal in the UK.

Actually, the whole Paul Little phenomenon sorely needs to be straightened out. Little is reputed to be author behind De Granamour, Kenneth Harding as well as quite a number of 'anonymous' books. Any evidence - or even pseudo-evidence would be helpful.

I recently attempted to get a listing of the books of Yolanda Celbridge accepted by Wikipedia, but they (rather snootily, I felt) decreed from on high that the simple list of titles and dates didn't fulfil their criteria for 'biography', and pointed out that there was even some doubt about whether there was a person of that name. They may well be right in this, but as I pointed out (in as many words, hopefully more temperate) that whether she exists or not, there sure is a hell of a pile of literature in her name, and surely Wiki should acknowledge this by listing it, as a service to their users.

Is there any way of persuading these 'guardians of knowledge' off their high horses?

Wikipedia has Yolanda Celbridge listed under 'Significant BDSM People' on the wiki page 'Outline of BDSM' here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_BDSM

I like the premise that Gerda Mundinger and Guenther Klow are one in the same. Google Books, in their interesting quest to scan all books, has previews of The Insatiable Sensualists and Sex Without Intercourse (# 889 & #890 Ophelia Press, 2009 - no other printing history noted). These editions of Doc Mundinger's books have nearly identical glowing introductions by Mr Klow ...

Meanwhile, Garth Mundinger-Klow (M.D., Ph.D., OB-GYN) has an entertaining blog - http://sexology411.wordpress.com/ - and some of the salacious covers shown hark from the '60's & '70's. There is a bio provided (with photos) that not only speaks of his aforementioned parents but of a sister, Gretchen Mundinger-Klow (sex therapist & author). Elsewhere he even mentions a pen name (Terence Fitzbancroft) for his - ahem - non-fiction.

Evidence for the above? Not much - his bio claims that "in 1997, I accepted the post of Kinsey Chair at the Beverly Hills Institute for Sexual Health Research, where I remain today". This organization actually exists, although sadly Dr MK is not on the staff list. Hmm - perhaps he has recently retired.

CliffordDorset has said that unfortunately the writing is prolific but not up to the old 'case study' standards. My guess is that the name fronts an elaborate multi-authored facet of Disruptive Publishing, Inc, who are behind the current incarnation of Olympia /Ophelia Press, as well as "the Black Mask" and "Silk Pagoda" imprints. If so, not unlike Maurice Girodias's early stable of contract porn writers.

Thanks, lennynero and Speedicut.

1) I should have been more diligent at looking for any usages other than the (deleted) one I tried to contribute to. Perhaps their portmanteau approach is the best way of dealing with BDSM, although I note that the Yolanda Celbridge 'bullet' isn't a link. I provided them with a (with luck) comprehensive list of Celbridge titles, and maybe they're intending to use this, but why this isn't done, God knows! My experience with Wiki was far from positive; they're obsessively bureaucratic, I found. It seems necessary to know all the complexities of how they do things, and for a would-be helper and non-Geek such as me it all seems too much trouble. Of course they are all 'amateurs', in the true sense of the word, but I'm sure it would be more useful if they could actually communicate with people like me.

2) I think I have a complete set of Gerda Mundinger's books. The two you mention I have as Grove Press editions. The LT listing under her name has them all as Paul Little. 'Precocious Youth' I acquired as a penniless student at the Bus Depot book stall in Washington, DC back in 1971.

The multi-author tag does seem to fit GMK's stuff, not least because there's so much of it! Another pointer, for me at least, as one who has attempted erotic writing, is the enormous range of fetishes he embraces. My experience is that writing erotically about something you don't feel very aroused by is almost impossible, and it's difficult to imagine having quite so many fetishes!

Thanks for the pointer to GMK's blog.