Oryx and Crake spoiler thread

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Oryx and Crake spoiler thread

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1psutto
Jan 10, 2012, 6:34 am

A few people have finished now so lets discuss on this thread with spoilers?

2psutto
Modifié : Jan 10, 2012, 6:36 am

I'd like to know what Atwood was aiming for and whether she is as anti-science as the tone of this book seems to imply

What did people think of the triumph of science over art theme going on?

Although the science for most of what happened is possible, I guess, is it probable?

Are Crake's actions believable?

Anyone inspired to read the year of the flood now?

3majkia
Jan 10, 2012, 8:10 am

In a society that values money and the bottom line over all else, I'd think it only logical that art would be devalued and science in the form of a vehicle for patents and use for consumer products and designer drugs would always be the winner.

I'm not sure she's anti-science. But rather anti unbridled corporatocracies that have no conscience and no morality and who don't look forward beyond the next board meeting.

As to Crake, yeah, I thought, the way he was painted and what we knew of him, I could see him doing this. He had a God-complex from the start, so definitely.

When I read Oryx and Crake I didn't realize there was a follow-on book. I expect I will have to read it now.

The only other book I've read of Atwood's was The Handmaiden's Tale and I found that disturbing in the extreme. This one nearly as much so.

4psutto
Jan 10, 2012, 9:02 am

Crake is emotionally retarded too I guess and the world Atwood creates is hyper commercialized

I've also only read handmaids tale and I think year of the flood happens at the same time as oryx and crake I think

She acknowledges several Atwoods in the back of the book who I'm guessing are relatives who are scientists?

5mamzel
Jan 10, 2012, 1:53 pm

The Year of the Flood is definitely more technology bashing. Genetic engineering and global warming end the world pretty much, or at least washes it clean to start over (hence the flood).

6_debbie_
Jan 10, 2012, 8:14 pm

I'm curious as to what others thought about the ending. I'm not sure if Year of the Flood picks up where this one left off, but I didn't know if Snowman was going to peacefully approach the others he found or shoot them all. I'm guessing the ending is intentionally ambiguous, but I'd love to know what others think about it.

I enjoyed the novel overall, but I'm not sure I could read two Atwood's in a row if her other books are anything like this one.

7dallenbaugh
Jan 10, 2012, 8:37 pm

I thought the fact that Snowman observes the children of Crake beginning to make idols before he confronts the intruders makes us doubly unsure what he will do.

Snowman says that Crake sees idolatry as the beginning of the downfall of humans so in spite of Crake's best efforts his children are starting to show the "faults" that he has tried to eliminate.

Does this mean Snowman realizes it is useless to try to protect the children?

8banjo123
Jan 10, 2012, 10:51 pm

I looked up an interview by Atwood. Here is what she says about science:

"Please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oryx and Crake is anti-science. Science is a way of knowing, and a tool. Like all ways of knowing and tools, it can be turned to bad uses. And it can be bought and sold, and it often is. But it is not in itself bad. Like electricity, it's neutral.

The driving force in the world today is the human heart --- that is, human emotions. (Yeats, Blake - every poet, come to think of it --- has always told us that.) Our tools have become very powerful. Hate, not bombs, destroys cities. Desire, not bricks, rebuilds them. Do we as a species have the emotional maturity and the wisdom to use our powerful tools well? Hands up, all who think the answer is Yes. Thank you, sir. Would you like to buy a gold brick?"

9banjo123
Jan 10, 2012, 10:54 pm

Oh and here is a link to the interview: http://www.readinggroupguides.com/guides3/oryx_and_crake2.asp
I am not sure how I feel about the book--intrigued for sure. I am planning to give Year of the Flood a try.

10_debbie_
Jan 10, 2012, 11:08 pm

>9 banjo123: Great interview. Thanks for sharing!

Here's another interesting video interview she gave on Year of the Flood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvockbo-8xU A bit odd for sure, but it also made me want to give this one a try.

11psutto
Jan 11, 2012, 4:41 am

I actually prefer open endings, I think year of the flood is set at the same time using some of the same characters but is not meant to be a sequel?

Thanks for he interviews, very interesting

12Morphidae
Jan 11, 2012, 8:18 am

Year of the Flood happens during the same time period following different people and ends the same day, but later, as Oryx and Crake. You find out who the people are but the ending feels almost as uncertain.

13StevenTX
Jan 12, 2012, 10:37 am

I don't think Atwood is anti-science in Oryx and Crake any more than her depiction of child pornography makes her anti-sex. The most telling passage for me is the one (page 85 of my hardcover edition) which says "When did the body first set out on its own adventures? Snowman thinks after having ditched its old travelling companions, the mind and the soul, for whom it had once been considered a mere corrupt vessel or else a puppet acting out their dramas for them, or else bad company, leading the other two astray." I think she's making the point that science without ethics and social responsibility is like sex without love or art: pure exploitation.

I didn't think the characters of Crake and Oryx were as well-developed as they should have been to explain their attitudes and actions. What turned Crake from a soulless scientist into a world-destroying megalomaniac? What made Oryx so wise, saintly and forgiving?

I've read, I think, six novels by Atwood. There is considerable variety in her writing, some of which is science fiction, some bordering on magical realism, and some pure realism. Oryx and Crake isn't the best, but I did enjoy it and would like to read The Year of the Flood.

14psutto
Jan 12, 2012, 5:10 pm

Art suffers the same in that Jimmy goes to art college and pretty much only learns about propaganda...

Anti-science may be too broad then, anti commercial and anti modern?

15dallenbaugh
Jan 12, 2012, 7:48 pm

Yes, steven03tx, I also think the passage you mention on P.85 encapsulates Atwood's feelings about all kinds of issues concerning science, the internet, the modern world etc. which by themselves are neither good or bad, but without the mind and soul are easily taken to the extreme.

I still haven't figured out where Jimmy fits in all of this. It seems like he is chosen by the Art College only because he doesn't qualify for anything else, and he certainly doesn't seem like a character who has strong principles, good or bad, but Crake must see some form of humanity in him to allow him to escape the virus and to watch over the Crakers.

16soffitta1
Jan 15, 2012, 5:43 am

I am going to try and get hold of Year of the Flood, I really enjoyed Oryx and Crake. Actually knowing there is to be a trilogy makes more sense of the fact that Atwood concentrated on only a small part of the story.

As with The Handmaid's Tale, I see the book as a prompt to look at how we are living, and how we could end up.

17clif_hiker
Jan 15, 2012, 6:00 am

I didn't really pick up any anti-science sentiment as I read. I DID get the very strong anti-commercialism, anti-exploitation meme.

Getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden and the making of idols symbolism was magnificent. Orxy and Crake as God makes Snowman... what? the devil, maybe?

Terrific story. Should be read in every high school (senior) literature (or maybe biology) class (but then kids might end up hating it... soooo).

18banjo123
Jan 16, 2012, 2:07 pm

I have started on Year of the Flood which is so far not as gripping as O & C.
I think that the character of Jimmy/Snowman really is central to the book. He's slightly stupid, kind of hapless, but with an edge that's almost sweet. Since we see the other characters (esp. Oryx and Crake) through Jimmy's eyes, I was never sure what was real and what was his fantasy. Especially with Oryx.

19Donna828
Jan 23, 2012, 10:07 am

I finished Oryx and Crake over the week end and was mesmerized by it. I rated it 4.5*. Not bad for a book that I was not looking forward to! I see it as a cautionary tale. We already have scary things happening to the food we eat. I'd hate to think that we're heading toward chicken "nobs" or eating our own waste products. *Big Ewwww*

I read recently where there is O&C is part of a proposed trilogy. I'm going to read The Year of the Flood sometime this year. I need to get back to reality first.

20psutto
Jan 24, 2012, 5:46 am

If chicken "nobs" tasted like the real thing then what's so wrong? In fact is it not more humane to engineer real non-thinking non feeling meat than continue to eat living feeling species (I'm a committed omnivore btw not a veggie)

As I travel a lot with work I'm constantly amazed that some English people are very happy to eat pigs but are horrified by the thought of eating for example horses (much dumber than pigs) or reindeer

If our "waste" tasted like e.g honey would it still be icky to eat it?

21soffitta1
Jan 24, 2012, 6:04 pm

I think food is cultural. For us Brits, horses are a pet, I would no more eat a dog or cat than a horse. I have lived in Asia where dogs (and less frequently cats) are eaten, but I knew few people with them as pets. I suppose it is a matter of how we have separated the animals in our head. I also got into a discussion with a veggie friend as to why I would never eat a lion, for me it is the strangeness of a large meateater eating another meateater, but had no problems eating smaller meateaters or herbivores.

22_debbie_
Jan 24, 2012, 9:26 pm

>21 soffitta1: I totally agree. I remember the first time I ate deer in a stew. It was quite yummy. After I was done, I was told what meat it was and I got sick. All in my little Bambi brain, I'm sure. I don't think I could eat horse or dog either, but I have come to love lamb! And I hear monkey is really tasty, although I don't think I could do that either. We have to draw the line somewhere (even if it's a cultural one) or else we'd all be eating everything that moved.

23majkia
Jan 25, 2012, 6:46 am

We have to draw the line somewhere (even if it's a cultural one) or else we'd all be eating everything that moved.

LOL Perhaps even the neighbors!

24StevenTX
Jan 25, 2012, 9:51 am

If chicken "nobs" tasted like the real thing then what's so wrong? In fact is it not more humane to engineer real non-thinking non feeling meat than continue to eat living feeling species

Good point. What would bother me about such food is not the concept per se, but the suspicion that its chemical content would not be healthy in some fashion that didn't reveal itself over the short term. We are already taking unknown risks with hormone treated meats, etc.

25Bcteagirl
Modifié : Jan 25, 2012, 3:28 pm

And also the idea that if they were left with all chicken 'noobs' and no chickens, the production of that protein would be left entirely to corporations, with people no longer able to raise their own meat for 'ethical' reasons. In Atwood's dystopia I could easily see corporations pushing for control and trying to say it was for ethical reasons.

I read Oryx and Crake as well as Year of the Flood. Year of the Flood is more about those living outside the compounds, and includes stronger female characters. It also includes a lot more about the God's Gardeners you hear about briefly Oryx and Crake as being outlawed. The book ends shortly after Oryx and Crake ends, but continues it a few days further. It ends a the point where the plots being to interweave again. There is a third book to come out, but I have yet to find a name or expected date for it.

Like others, before I read these two I had only read The Handmaid's Tale and I found the future dystopia in which they live all too possible (It reminds me of the police officers who are now paid for and working for the banks in their off hours - but does that mean they are security guards, or are they acting as police for the banks?).

26Bcteagirl
Fév 1, 2012, 10:39 pm

One of the things that struck my in Oryx and Crake was surprise at just how little he seemed to be trying to improve his own post-apocalyptic situation.. especially when contrasted with the Gods Gardeners in Year of the Flood

27banjo123
Fév 1, 2012, 11:17 pm

26- That's true-- Jimmy was really passive overall.

28Bcteagirl
Fév 2, 2012, 2:04 am

I kept getting so frustrated with him... Abandoned houses etc all over, and not stocking up on supplies. When he opted to take only one clean sheet and leave all the others behind I nearly through the book across the room! :P

29wonderlake
Fév 5, 2012, 4:24 pm

Better late than never; I finished O&C last night and also have Year of the Flood lined up from the library.

I was surprised that O&C is almost a decade old, and I love the way that the www.oryxandcrake.co.uk website now only hyperlinks to a page Bloomsbury publishers which comes up with "404 not found"

30banjo123
Fév 5, 2012, 8:25 pm

Wonderlake--I'll be interested to see how you like Year of the Flood.

31Bcteagirl
Fév 9, 2012, 12:46 pm

29: Very interesting about the webpage, thank you for the link! They are well behind on 'everything becoming clear' aren't they?

If you are frustrated at the lack of direction of Snowman, you should find Year of the Flood a breath of fresh air.

32Bcteagirl
Fév 21, 2012, 3:58 pm

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/19/first-test-tube-hamburger-to-be-produced-t...

First ‘test-tube’ hamburger to be produced this year: The world’s first “test-tube” meat, a hamburger made from a cow’s stem cells, will be produced this fall, Dutch scientist Mark Post told a major science conference on Sunday.

Seemed apt to post this here for some reason ;)

33psutto
Fév 23, 2012, 6:10 am

Wonder what vegetarians and vegans will think about that