Reading Group #14 ('The Repairer of Reputations')

Alrighty. Here we are.

I'll get the ball rolling.

BUT HERE THAR BEE SPOILARS, MATEY, SO BE-WARR!

One thing that confounds and really disturbs me about this story is that, when our narrator's, er, 'issues' come to final light we are left wondering how much, if anything, he has told us ever really happened or is even partially accurate. For example, his description of the 'dystopian' qualities of life circa 1920 (which was the future when this story was written): is it possible that the 'suicide chambers' and blah blah blah are all just his own paranoid, delusional fantasies and that he's really just seeing people enter ordinary buildings and doing ordinary things for ordinary reasons? Is it possible that none of the people he's described, including the 'repairer of reputations' ever existed? And if they do, how much of the ending, when his insanity reaches its fever pitch, can be believed? These are pretty obvious questions set forth, I think, by the text, but our author chooses to skirt them entirely (aside from that tittilating last line (and I mean the 'editor's,' not our narrator's ravings about the King in Yellow)). (Incidentally, an excellent example of our narrator's unreliability is that he describes his 'diadem' as being set in solid gold with diamonds, even though his brother asks him why he has a brass crown lying around: our narrator passes this off as his brother's lack of knowledge, but I think its pretty clear, if subtle, that the crown IS brass and that our narrator is truly skirting the cliff's edge...)

I realize that what draws me to this story (and The King in Yellow as a whole) are the mechanisms and motifs with which it creates its mythology: and it's fascinating to think that the entire mythos of The King in Yellow begins with the first-person narration of a man who is clearly out of his mind. The poison that drips from that (fictional) book's pages couldn't be explained in a more sinister and all-encompassing way: when we get to later King in Yellow stories in the collection, like 'The Mask,' it raises further questions: clearly the narrator of 'Reputations' can not be getting ALL his details wrong (or at least his madness is more complex, and CREEPY!, than we can fathom), as the sculptor our narrator references off-hand in 'Reputations' is one of the main characters in 'The Mask!' I love touches like this, mostly because they make it hard to seperate the parts of a collective work like The King in Yellow; and, frustrating as that can be when we just want to read one of the stories, the power it generates on a complete reading is beyond words...

The King in Yellow, and I mean the 'fictional' play not the book itself, is supposed to poison the mind and change a man or woman forever by invading their thoughts with truths too difficult for any sane person to grapple with. What a brilliant idea. You can see the seeds of Lovecraft in this work without any real difficulty, but, though I adore H. P., I think that Chambers is the more interesting writer. Though the rest of his fiction bores me to tears, the King in Yellow quartet is entirely without peer for me, and 'The Repairer of Reputations' is the jewel in the crown. I can't think of many more interesting, and yet utterly enthralling, stories. Like Blackwood's 'The Listener,' this one gets me on many, many levels: not the least of which is sheer terror.

Absolutely marvelous.

(That seems to have become more of a review than a discussion post, but oh well...) :D

Regarding continuity, in "The Yellow Sign" the narrator refers to "the awful tragedy of young Castaigne": that story itself seems to be set more or less when it was written, as the narrator speaks with a young man who is a veteran of the battle of Tel-el-Kabir (1882).

That is one powerful story.

#4 - So is there the possibility that the '1920' of the story is part of Castaigne's delusion and that the story is actually set in 1895 or whenever - or do the other stories of the group not allow that?

Not having read those other stories, am I right to assume that the play or book which is supposed to have driven Castaigne mad is 'real' and not a figment of his imagination - or at least to the extent of its supposed effect on people?

Hah - I've got to read the lot, now.

I don't think there's anything to contradict all the stories being set in around the 1890s, apart from Castaigne's dubious authority. Also, the history Castaigne recounts at the beginning seems rather like a sort of nationalist's daydream.

The play itself and its effect on readers appears to be 'real'.

I agree with AndreasJ. I think the '1920s' setting is as much a part of Castaigne's fantasy as many (if not, perhaps, all) of the details presented to us in the story. And yeah, perfect wording: the opening of the story sounds like a 'nationalist's daydream.' I wonder what opinions Castaigne held, politically, before he began to unravel and how they've, like his relationships with other people, transformed since he has...?

Yes; the effect of the play on its reader does seem to be real. Subtler, perhaps, for other characters in the King in Yellow cycle (like in 'The Mask'), but for some just as intense (like 'In the Court of the Dragon,' which is probably my second favorite after 'The Repairer of Reputations.') 'Reputations' and 'The Yellow Sign' seem to most 'involve' the play in their own narratives, however.

I'm glad you liked it, Paul!

This thread seems to have reached its conclusion, for now, so on to the next selection! I think it's time we revisited Poe. Something particularly gruesome, too! 'The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar.' New thread is up. :)

Just got the story from the library a couple days ago, so I hope to offer some comments later in the week. Good choice for the next selection, I'll have to crack that open this week too!

Oh, excellent! For some reason, I really think you'll like 'Reputations,' Salvatore...

Oh, I'm sure I'll love it...haven't been disappointed yet by any of your recommendations.

I've avoided posting any more on this as, from some of your posts, I came to feel that I should first read the other three stories in the sequence to get this one properly into context.

I finally got round to having a go at them this evening and I've read 'The Mask' and 'In the Court of the Dragon' (I had to give up on 'The Yellow Sign' as it's 1:30am here and my powers of concentration have ... um ... what was I saying?)

Anyway, having finished 'Dragon', and thinking about it and remembering back to 'Reputations', it suddenly occurred to me to wonder exactly how much the reader can rely on the word of the narrator of 'The Mask' - and I mean as regards the whole plot, not just the details. After all, it becomes clear towards the end that the chap hasn't had a decent night's sleep in months and that he's familiar with this play that's not safely readable; and is there not a slight hint that they've been smoking something a little more exotic than the norm ("... new sensations in smoking ...") - which might bear on the fact that on the narrator's couple of climactic moments with Geneviève he has just been at his pipe?

It's really quite unsettling to have the author (possibly) pulling the carpet out from under one's feet in this way and it makes for a very powerful and thought-provoking story.*

Of course, the result with regards to this thread is that I'm now fully in tune with veilofisis's point in the OP that the reader has to look sceptically at practically everything that Castaigne says.

*Incidentally, I'm blaming it on the time of night, but I've yet to work out the significance of 'the mask' in 'The Mask' (if you see what I mean).

And now I can't sleep.

Would it be fair to say that these stories exist where Gothic, Decadent and Fin de siècle overlap, but with a bit less of the Gothic and a bit more of the other stuff?

I had another go at reading 'The Yellow Sign' and forgot to click 'Post message' on that last post. However, 'The Yellow Sign' answers my question in the negative as I think it's firmly back in the 'Gothic tale' mould with a vengeance.

The trouble is, now, that I don't at all see how its treatment of 'The King in Yellow' (the play) and the 'Yellow Sign' (whatever that may be) reflects back on the earlier stories. Perhaps in the morning.

>14 alaudacorax:

I would agree entirely. The Gothic or terror thread creeps up more in some of the stories than others---and there are even some eerie, almost mystical layers to 'In the Court of the Dragon'---but the decadent seems to recur in each of them with a great deal of force, if the execution remains subtly distorted. I think that that blending of decadence with motifs we'd define as 'Gothic' is a key note in many fin de siecle classics. The Picture of Dorian Gray springs to mind immediately, and, to a lesser degree perhaps, Trilby. Dracula, even, has aspects of this fusion, though it exploits, like Dorian Gray, the Gothic to a larger extent than other examples.

Really good point, Paul. I think I might use it as an essay topic later this semester, actually.

(Edited for bloody touchstones!)

#16 I presume you mean Trilby by Charles Nodier and not the one by Diana Palmer. Those touchstones have a mind of their own, just like a supermarket trolly.

I feel totally behind the posse in this discussion group. There are lots of reasons for my not getting my homework done, but those are my problems, not yours. (I've been reviewing non-fiction and writing about Daleks.

I hope no-one minds my trotting along at the back and throwing in my five ha'pence worth every so often.

The suggested readings are great and they are prompting me to revisit old favourites and pushing me to read stories I've had for a long time and never made the effort to read.

Chambers will be new to me and I think I will take rankamateur's approach; i.e. read the other stories first before The Repairer of Reputations, not stay awake all night; although I see how that could happen.

#16 - Always so much more to read - Decadent and Fin de siècle are another two concepts with which, like the Gothic, I don't think I've really got to grips. I've made a start on the Gothic, but ...

#17 - Well, I read them in book order, assuming Chambers meant them read that way, but not really sure about it after reading, though.

Some thoughts and questions:

First of all, I strongly feel that I've not by any means got properly to grips with these stories on just one reading each (actually, at least twice for the thread story and I'm still puzzling just as much over that one).

Having said that, I think that tentatively, and on the strength of these four stories alone (I don't think I'd ever heard of Chambers before joining this group), I'd put Chambers right up there in the 'super-league', alongside Edgar Allen Poe. I think these are something really special and I fully intend reading the rest of the book and more of Chambers' stuff in due course.

For those who have read the book, do you think the rest of it sheds any more light on these four stories and the underlying idea of this play? I've got the impression that they're a 'stand alone' group.

Actually, I think I'll stop there. I have so much buzzing round my brain on these stories (I actually woke up this morning with it buzzing round in there) that I really need to read them all again, perhaps a few more times, and put in some heavy-duty pondering on them. So don't be surprised if I'm back gnawing away at this particular bone in another couple of weeks.

16

Actually, I meant George du Maurier's Trilby! These touchstones drive me crazy!

17

I'm so glad you've gotten into these! They're certainly in a super-league for me, too! I don't generally reread things without giving them at least a few weeks' breathing room, but the first time I encountered these stories (October 2009) I managed to reread them all, on a loop, perhaps four or five times each within the space of a month. It seems remarkable that such a small body of work can hold such a potent fascination: but then, maybe the King in Yellow's slimness is part of its success: the vistas of interpretation are so wide in this quartet of stories that adding any more to the mix may have robbed the cycle of some its 'grace' (for lack of a better word).

As for the remaining King in Yellow stories: I think that the four 'canon' tales certainly stand alone. The other stories are dry, maudlin sentimentalism at best; and what's more, they have absolutely nothing to do with the quartet. I'd still read them, for context, since Chambers clearly saw fit to publish them as one volume, but I wouldn't devote too much time to them or give them much consideration even as stand-alone works.

I'm glad you decided to read all four. I was going to make this thread an over-all read of the four stories, but thought that might intimidate some of our readers. Funny how things work out, though, and now it seems most of you are reading all four anyway! :D

#19 - ... dry, maudlin sentimentalism at best ...

Oh! That's a disappointment - though, now I come to think of it, I think you've said something similar elsewhere. Should I class these as Chambers hitting a rare peak?

Of the remaining tales in the collection, "The Demoiselle d'Ys" and "The Street of the First Shell" are the best in my opinion.

If Chambers saw any unity among the whole collection, it certainly escapes me. The last two stories share characters with Chambers' earlier novel In the Quarter, but not with the other stories in the collection. Maybe they were just published together because they were written close together in time?

20 > Chambers mostly wrote romance stories (which doubtlessly paid better than gothica). He's got some more weird stories to his name (which I haven't read), but the unanimous critical opinion seems to be that the first four stories of TKiY are his best.

#22 - Ah, right. A shame - I was imagining whole bookfuls like those four. What you, and veil in #19, say probably explains why I'd never heard of him.

#12 - *Incidentally, I'm blaming it on the time of night, but I've yet to work out the significance of 'the mask' in 'The Mask' (if you see what I mean).

Twit! I really should not stay up that late.

Cross-posting to this thread in The Weird Tradition group, for reference.

>19 veilofisis: As for the remaining King in Yellow stories: I think that the four 'canon' tales certainly stand alone. The other stories are dry, maudlin sentimentalism at best; and what's more, they have absolutely nothing to do with the quartet.

I wouldn't say "absolutely nothing" though it's true the remaining stories are quite unlike the quartet. However, there are glancing references:
● THE DEMOISELLE D'YS: Jeanne D'ys is a French homophone for jaundice, and a falconer is named Hastur
● THE PROPHETS' PARADISE includes references to a white mask and a Phantom

It's unclear what they mean, but with all direct description to the King in Yellow so scant even in the quartet of stories, it seems improbable these parallels in the remaining stories are mere coincidence.

I've read the main 4, or listened to them, rather. "The Repairer of Reputations" did strike me as being the most sort of referential as far as the Yellow King went, and the most straight forward, though I'm not sure what role the actual repairer had, if I have the right character in my head.

"The Mask" I've listened to a few times, and it's one of those stories that I can follow while I'm reading it, and grasp an understanding, but recalling it now is not so easy.

I listened to a youtube review called "Let's Talk about The King in Yellow" and it mentioned how the collection really doesn't go into the details of the Yellow King and the Yellow Sign beyond the first four, and actually suspects it was Chambers trying to enter into a new literary market away from horror and into romance. I read one other, that involved a white cat and an artist but I don't recall which story that was. I think it was something about a South Wind or Four Winds? I could google this but my internet is being fussy.

>28 WeeTurtle: suspects it was Chambers trying to enter into a new literary market away from horror and into romance

I don't think that can be true, because he wrote, or at least published, no horror before The King in Yellow. His only previous book, In the Quarter is, I'm told, a Parisian romance in the style of some of the later stories in TKiY.

>29 AndreasJ: Interesting. I'll have to watch it again.

When I search for details on the King in Yellow, I hear about the play and the things that happen but I haven't encountered a lot that seems to show that as far as the literature, unless some of that is coming from other representations like Lovecraft's Hastur, but then, Hastur is apparently only mentioned in passing in the one story, The Whisperer in the Darkness. I've been trying to get hold of more literature but haven't found any outside of Chambers, Bierce, and the aforementioned short story.

Chaosium's The Hastur Cycle anthologizes a selection of stories dealing with Hastur.

This is the contents of The King in Yellow:

The Repairer of Reputations
The Mask
The Court of the Dragon
The Yellow Sign
The Demoiselle D'Ys
The Prophets' Paradise
The Street of the Four Winds
The Street of the First Shell
The Street of Our Lady Of the Fields
Rue Barree

You've got the four celebrated weird stories first, four non-fantastical stories named after Parisian streets or quarters at the end.

In the middle, a supernatural but gentle and romantic story ( "The Demoiselle D'Ys") followed by a rather precious and very of-its-time piece (is it a prose-poem? a drama?) with references to the Commedia del Arte ("The Prophets' Paradise").

There are perhaps weak connections across all the stories. The all concern artist living a bohemian life but displaying what might appear a contradictorily quaint moral code in matters of the heart. This show up in the weird tales as much s in the "La Boheme" type tales. And horror isn't confined to the weird tales as "The Street of the First Shell" takes place during the siege of Paris during the Franco-Prussian War and doesn't stint on the horrors visited on the inhabitants of the city.

The sentimentality and the flashes of brutality in the non-weird stories seem an odd mix, but also reminiscent of the scenarios of silent films of the '20s. I think I read that Chambers worked as a screenwriter in Hollywood. Maybe it would be truer to say that he influenced the development of movies?

Modern writers who use the elements of Chambers Jauniste fiction have confused me (if they are not taking Lovecraft rather than Chambers are their starting point). They seem too removed from the world Chambers set up. I think perhaps the "missing link" is in Role Playing Games rather than traditional fiction. Does anyone know?

>32 housefulofpaper:

There's not much to take as a starting point in Lovecraft; he invokes names and concepts like "Hastur" and "the Yellow Sign", but doesn't elaborate on them.

The missing link may be Derleth, who made Hastur into a Cthulhu-like entity.

>32 housefulofpaper:
>33 AndreasJ:

I can comment on the RPG front, at least somewhat. "Call of Cthulhu" or "something Cthulhu" is the standard RPG that invokes Lovecraft to my knowledge. It was re-released again last year for the third or fourth time I think? On computer anyway. It was also a table top RPG. I'm not sure if it (the game) relates directly to the story by that name or if it's just what it uses because Cthulhu is the go-to Lovecraft monster. It seems to have Innsmouth leanings.

In the online game "The Secret World" there are cults and I think the "Dragon" refers to Cthulhu and the great old ones. In standard DnD, the warlock class has the option to forged a pact with the "Great Old Ones" which my Warlock does. The nature of warlocks is that they make bargains or pacts with worldly or otherworldly powers for their magics and The Yellow King could easily fit in there.

Just yesterday I noticed an early alpha release for "The Yellow King" which is described as an MMO based on the writings of Lovecraft. This threw me a bit because that feels like a disconnect. I'm not sure if the developers or designers really wanted to invoke The Yellow King literature (in which case they should have said "Chambers" I imagine) or the name sounded cooler in marketing than Hastur.

An aside, there's another Yellow King figure in the SCP Foundation if people are familiar with it. I only just started bumping into it online. One person described it as what happens when you crowdsource horror. People make up their own monsters and such and assign them a number and a name and it all goes into a big pile called the SCP Foundation. There's a figure in there called "The Hanged King" that is very much based off the guy, or so I hear. I haven't actually read the accompanying fiction.

That's what I have on the top off my head for direct Lovecraft inspired games but there are more that don't state his name directly but the reference is pretty obvious. "Darkest Dungeon" for example.

The tabletop RPG isn't specifically related to the eponymous short story, but presumably adopted the name because Cthulhu has become Lovecraft's most famous creation (in turn perhaps more than anything else because Derleth chose to speak of the "Cthulhu Mythos"). A session is more likely to resemble the plot of "The Dunwich Horror" than that of "The Call of Cthulhu".

But the RPG dates from the early '80s, when Derleth and others had already penned quite a few pastiches, including ones portraying Hastur as a tentaculate alien god.

Here are a couple of things I found just now:

The Yellow King rpg that launched on a kickstarter.
https://site.pelgranepress.com/index.php/announcing-the-yellow-king-rpg/

And this is a short ad about the computer game.
https://massivelyop.com/2019/10/15/the-yellow-king-is-a-new-mmo-heading-for-a-ha...

I looked up the recent Call of Cthulhu and it's apparently an attempt at a computer game remake of the old tabletop game.

>38 frahealee:
Wow! I was vaguely aware of those echoes and correspondences across the stories but you certainly put the work in to document them! It does show that the story collection has a thematic unity and isn't "four good weird stories and some makeweight material".

It's interesting what you say about reading a book, as against listening to an audiobook. I don't listen to a lot of audiobooks but my initial thought was that I am quite fussy about them; I can't get on with the "wrong voice" or can't get on with the decisions about e.g. where the stresses and emphases fall - "the reading", in other words. But then, I'm lucky enough to be able to listen to BBC Radio 4 which has plenty of book and story readings and although I may not be interested in the subject matter the performance rarely puts me off. So maybe I'm comparing the audiobook unfavourable only when I've arleady read the story to myself and the "definitive" performance is the one I did in my head! How arrogant, if that's what's going on!

>38 frahealee: Boris is in The Mask as well, yeah? Was he the protag in Repairer? I just remember the madness catching up to him.

I like audiobooks when the narrator is good. I got tired with Horrorbabble for a bit, so I listened to The Yellow King's main four on another channel that narrated public domain stuff. I think I went through The Mask three times and Court of the Dragon twice. I believe I both read and listened to Repairer because I had a horror anthology at the time that had Chamber's work, but I remember only reading part of it before switching to the audio.

I tend to prefer male voices, but I lean that way with singing as well, or at least deeper voices. I think it's because men can pull of a decent female voice (or at least they get a pass) while women reading for men tend to sound hokey. (One exception is Jennifer Gill narrating a Lovecraft poem though. Can never recall the name, but I go back to it lots.)

>40 WeeTurtle:

Boris is mentioned in "Repairer", but doesn't make an appearance. The protagonist is Castaigne, who is in turn mentioned in "The Yellow Sign".