***Group Read: The Portrait of a Lady, Chapters 12-22

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***Group Read: The Portrait of a Lady, Chapters 12-22

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1lauralkeet
Modifié : Mar 18, 2011, 9:21 pm

It's time for our next installment.

Related threads: General * Chapters 1-11

Reference: Sparknotes for this book. Here's an excerpt pertaining to chapters 12-15:
Twelve chapters into the novel, Isabel has already faced two marriage proposals, one from the quintessentially American Caspar Goodwood, and one from the quintessentially English Lord Warburton. As Henrietta points out to Ralph, Isabel's romantic crisis with Warburton signifies the extent to which her American ideas and values have been affected by her time in Europe.
...
Only Ralph, the moral center of Portrait to a Lady, can see beyond this pitfall and conceive of a truly independent life for Isabel, where she will be able to think, act, and be exactly as she pleases.

What are your thoughts on this analysis, and these 11 chapters in general?

2billiejean
Mar 19, 2011, 11:01 am

I do think that Ralph has Isabel's best interests at heart. He is an amazingly unselfish person. But I wonder if it is all too much for Isabel. I do not trust Madame Merle, and I wonder if she is a prediction of where Isabel could end up. I find it interesting that so many people want Isabel married after such a short acquaintance. I know that those were different times, but really. She must be quite captivating. Now that she has so much, though, people will want her money.
--BJ

3Matke
Mar 19, 2011, 4:01 pm

I've not finished the whole section, but it certainly is something to think about while I read: Ralph as the moral center of a P. of L.

4lauralkeet
Mar 19, 2011, 5:37 pm

I've not quite finished this section either, but found the comment about Mrs Merle in #2 thought-provoking as I was reading earlier today. And #3, about Ralph ... hmmm ... yes that's quite possible.

As for Isabel and marriage, I think the whole institution of marriage was something quite different in those days. Sometimes it was more of an economic arrangement (i.e.; for the man, to protect property ownership and for the woman, simply to survive). But I too have been surprised with the suitors who are all over Isabel.

5Smiler69
Mar 19, 2011, 11:31 pm

I've cut/pasted the following bit from the previous spoiler thread as hadn't noticed I'd skipped ahead:

I don't know how the story develops yet, but I think Isabel's refusal of Lord Warburton's marriage offer is louche (and awfully quick). She says a bunch of stuff about thinking she deserves to be miserable (or something along those lines), but I think she just doesn't want to lose her independence, which might be understandable, if not for the fact that she's being supported by her aunt, isn't she?

Reading on, I am revisiting a previous comment where I was questioning whether Ralph has any personality. I've just finished the bit where he is asking his father to change his will so that she will inherit half of what he himself was supposed to get. What an incredibly generous man! And to me, that is a mark of true love as well... wanting to give her the freedom she could never have otherwise. A true gentleman in every sense of the word.

I'm currently reading Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice as well and am not at all shocked about how quickly the marriage proposals are pouring in. As Laura points out, marriage in those days was most of all an economic arrangement and if I'm to judge by the two Austen books I've read so far, it seems people quickly jumped to marriage offers when the right conditions were met. Isabel is an attractive and intelligent woman and since she's related to the Touchett's, has the right kind of connections as well. Also, as we're told, American women attracted even more marriage offers in Europe, so what else could a man ask for really? Incredible by our current standards of course.

I don't have a personal opinion about madame Merle yet as I've only reached chapter XIX, though I did find the annotation about her name in my edition interesting (and ominous):

"The name means blackbird. It also calls to mind the name of the Marquise de Merteuil, in Laclos's Les Liaisons Dangereuses (1782): a sinister figure who plots with her ex-lover Valmont (a man with a guilty secret) to seduce and ruin young women. When her crimes are finally discovered, she flees the country.


Speaking of which, I've seen the excellent movie version of Les Liaisons Dangereuses a couple of times, but not read the book yet and would love to. Anyone interested in a group read of that classic? I'd gladly set one up in a couple of months (next month is Jane Eyre)

6billiejean
Mar 20, 2011, 12:52 am

Interesting! That is indeed an ominous comparison. I read that book not too long ago and that woman is something else!
--BJ

7lauralkeet
Mar 20, 2011, 6:45 am

Hmmm ... sinister blackbird. Watch out.

About marriage, again. I should probably research this, but don't really have the time. But watching Downton Abbey on PBS recently, in the opening commentary Laura Linney mentioned there was a period in British history where it was quite commonplace for men to marry wealthy American women to boost their own fortunes. This was the case with Lord Grantham in the series. Although Isabel isn't especially wealthy, I'm just thinking this is all part of the same time period.

Like Ilana, I just recently read the section with Ralph & his father. I have lots of quotes marked which I just loved ... will come back later today to share more.

8lauralkeet
Modifié : Mar 20, 2011, 8:06 pm

Here are some of the quotes I liked in this section of the book:

As Isabel is dismissing Caspar Goodwood:
Do you find it so? It seems to me there's a great difference. I can imagine that at the end of ten years we might have a very pleasant correspondence. I shall have matured my epistolary style.

And then, after he leaves:
She leaned back, with that low, soft, aspiring murmur with which she often uttered her response to accidents of which the brighter side was not superficially obvious, and yielded to the satisfaction of having refused two ardent suitors in a fortnight.

Ralph, talking to his father:
I haven't many convictions, but I have three or four that I hold strongly. One is that people, on the whole, had better not marry their cousins. Another is that people in an advanced stage of pulmonary disorder had better not marry at all.

On English rain (I adore this quote)
Madame Merle liked almost everything, including the English rain. "There's always a little of it and never too much at once,' she said; 'and it never wets you and it always smells good.

In this section we also learn that Isabel is 23. But while I like Madame Merle's views on English weather, I dislike her more and more with each page. I'm now finished this section, and in chapter 22 we meet Gilbert Osmond. I am suspicious of he and Merle, very suspicious indeed.

9Donna828
Mar 20, 2011, 8:24 pm

I listened to this portion of the book coming home from Texas today. It was a very different experience than reading it. The "performer" portrayed the voice of Madame Merle in a soft, whispery voice that gave me chills. The sinister tone alone lets me know that she is up to no good.

BJ and I may have been in the same group read of Dangerous Liaisons. I can't remember a book where I've come across such duplicitous and downright evil characters. I don't think M. Merle is going to be in that category, but she definitely has something up her sleeve.

10Smiler69
Mar 21, 2011, 5:12 am

Thanks for those quotes Laura, I quite enjoyed those as well (especially the first and last ones). I keep reaching out for pen and paper and not finding any whenever I want to take down some quotes myself, so I guess I'll just have to read it again as soon as I've finished the book, just so I can do so!

I'm biting my tongue very hard right now because I've reached chapter XXVI or possibly VII or VIII and am not liking where things are headed. Someone is showing duplicity indeed and it can't be at all a good sign. But I won't say a word more!

11lauralkeet
Mar 21, 2011, 7:37 am

>10 Smiler69:: thanks Ilana. I'm using post-it page flags to mark passages. I may need another pack :)
And before you bit your tongue in half, just know the next thread will be created on Wed. 3/23 !

12billiejean
Mar 21, 2011, 9:40 am

Usually I am running behind on group reads, but with this one I am keeping up. I am surprised at how much I am enjoying this book.
--BJ

13Smiler69
Modifié : Mar 21, 2011, 11:37 pm

Laura, I'm going to be slowing down, so don't rush on my account. I need to move on to lighter fare right now. All this drama just won't do.

14AnneDC
Mar 22, 2011, 4:04 pm

I've read through Chapter XXII now and am wondering whether, as Ralph hopes, Isabel's fortune will "put wind in her sails" and enable her to realize her dreams, or, as Henrietta believes, will have a corrupting influence. I am not sure how to interpret Henrietta's concerns that Isabel is "changed," and whether these changes are for good or for bad. Caspar Goodwood annoys me for some reason and I was glad to see him dismissed.

Madame Merle feels like a sinister character with a mysterious agenda. I think it is interesting that neither Ralph nor the little girl Pansy like her.

15billiejean
Mar 22, 2011, 7:50 pm

Good point about the little girl not liking Madame Merle!
--BJ

16lauralkeet
Mar 22, 2011, 8:38 pm

Yes, they say kids have a sixth sense for these things.

17Mr.Durick
Modifié : Mar 24, 2011, 7:35 pm

How was it that Caspar and Isabel were able to sit in her hotel suite unsupervised without arousing the "Tsk tsk's" when she couldn't stay up late with her cousin at home?

Robert

18billiejean
Mar 24, 2011, 7:31 pm

Good question! Maybe they did not think to follow the conventions of England at the time. Seems like being alone in the hotel would have raised more questions than staying up late at home.
--BJ

19ALWINN
Mar 25, 2011, 1:11 pm

Ha Ha that is so funny that someone besides me would think of the same.

20BookAngel_a
Mar 25, 2011, 1:12 pm

I'm not sure it was a good idea for Ralph to convince his father to leave Isabel so much money. Ralph may have wanted to do good for Isabel, but I also think he wanted the amusement of watching what she would make of it - and I don't like that motive.

I'm really hoping in the end that Isabel will prove too smart for Madame Merle. I don't like where this is headed.