War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 1, Part 1 spoiler thread

Ta da!!!

I'll be back when I've actually finished Vol 1, Part 1...

No-one has posted anything yet, so I better write something before I forget all about Part 1 again - I am now in the middle of Part 2 and have that terribly short memory.

For the main part of Part 1 I was all confused with the names and relations. Everyone is introduced or at least mentioned in the first salon scene and then we get a closer look into the separate families and meet some of the characters which had previously only been mentioned.

I haven't identified any favorite characters yet, but I don't really like Pierre and I guess he is going to be important. I feel sorry for him though. I found it strange that he has not received a better education and is so clumsy in society, given that his father had those big plans for him. I had also expected more trouble around the will.

And I wondered how Julie and Marya could have become such close and trusting friends, they are so different and Marya is not really understanding. I found her reponse concerning the mystery book quite rude.

And the poor little princess with the moustache is not happy. I hope we'll learn more about her in the later chapters.

I've finished Part 1 now too. I'd read this in 2009, and found keeping the names and characters straight easier on a second read - something must've stuck.

I'm amazed at how fluid the writing is and how much Tolstoy crams in with not many words.

Nathalie, I'm hoping we find out why Andrei married Lise in the first place - we haven't met her family yet, which must explain how two such unsuited people got together...

I am very excited at having started War and Peace. Although I have read a lot of 19th Century literature, including plenty of Russians, I did not know a single thing about this book except that it takes place during the Napoleonic Wars. The only character I had heard of before I started reading it was Pierre, and I have no idea what happens to any of them beyond what I have read so far. I don’t know how I managed to avoid knowing more, and to be able to come to it so fresh, but I’m very glad.

We have been introduced to a lot of characters, but I do feel they have distinct personalities. I find I have many questions at this stage – Why doesn’t Prince Andrei like his wife? They haven’t been married very long. Why does Anna Mihalovna want to help Pierre so much? Is it because she thinks he will help Boris? And why does everyone dislike her so much? Surely it’s normal for impoverished relations to scheme on behalf of their children? Why did Count Bezuhov want to leave his whole estate to Pierre? Is it because he is the only son? Was it really that easy for his daughters to be completely disinherited? (I guess so, just as in Sense and Sensibility.)

Another thing I don’t completely understand is why the Russians want to fight Bonaparte to begin with. They are far away from him, and not really at risk, are they? Is it because of the close links between the aristocracies of the two countries? And surely the “ordinary people” don’t care, although they are being conscripted into the army. I guess I need a quick history lesson.

I also want to say a word in favour of Pierre. Okay, he doesn’t quite observe all the politenesses at the opening party. But he is young, and interested in discussing politics, and doesn’t want to be stopped just because it’s considered rude to do so. He has just come from France (hasn’t he?), where clearly society has been affected by current and recent events, and he wants to say what he thinks about Napoleon. Or maybe he just wants to be a bit outrageous, and why not. Also, he seems genuinely saddened by his father’s death, and appears not to be part of all the scheming around the will. I’ll be interested to see how he reacts to inheriting all that wealth.

Finally, I wonder what other books this one is reminding people of? At first I thought it would be a big sprawling family story like The Forsyte Saga, but the further I went, the more it started to remind me of Gone With the Wind!

Janet I haven't read much 19th century lit or any Russians, so I don't know what to compare it to - but it's much more like a rich chocolate pudding of a book than a crunchy apple so far.

I like the bits with Pierre, and quite like him so far too, and keep wondering what doofus thing he'll do next and how he'll adapt to being sought after by everyone now that he's the richest man in town. I felt like the battle of the will might have gone on for longer - it seemed to get resolved qutie abruptly. And I too don't know what's pushing Anna Mihailovna to help Pierre so much - if she's looking for another patron, surely there were easier targets? She'd just finished pleading to Prince Vassily, then she turns around and has Pierre come in and inherit. Huh.

Janet, I don't know anything about the motivation for going to war, except that I think they had a very strong alliance with Prussia. I remember in Part 2 last time (that's as far as I got) wanting to have Google Maps open. I didn't do it then, but I will try to this time around.

I'll start a Part 2 thread later on today, because I have a feeling Nathalie is probably almost ready for one!

I slowed down my reading a bit more, but I am almost through part 2 and will then continue into the next part because otherwise I will have forgotten everything. I already don't remember Anna Mihailovna wanting to help Pierre.

Re Pierre: I was just wondering why his father didn't arrange for some 'better' (Russian conform) education if he was planning to make him his heir (and I so want to know why he decided so!).

I read a book about German history recently and there it said that Prussia didn't really play such a big role during the Napoleonic wars. They were lucky to be on the right side in the end. Following wikipedia, the events in part 1 and 2 must be set during the third coalition when Prussia was neutral and Russia and Austria (and the UK and Sweden) were allies. It doesn't say anything about Russia's motivation though. Maybe just stopping the French early before they started invading Russia as well?

Hello! I am so happy that I finally decided to read War and Peace! I finished the first part, and in general I can say that I like it. Although I had the same problem as you, Nathalie, - being confused by all the names and relations, but I drew some kind of "character constellation" and it made it easier. It's really fluently written, but I can not say more about the language, because it's a translation. (Somehow I feel like learning Russian.)
I think the main purpose of this first part is the introduction of all important characters. That's why there's not so much "action".

I'm also wondering about the relation between Andrej and Lisa - why did they marry in the first place. But I guess, that was their parent's decision to strenghten the social position.
Natascha seems to be a real whirlwind - open, curious and fresh.
Pierre is in a difficult position, because he is only the illegitimate son and I wonder what will happen to him.

>4 JanetinLondon:: Janet, I'll try to answer a few of your questions, but it's just a suggestion! I don't want to claim the truth for myself. :)

Why does Anna Mihalovna want to help Pierre so much?
That's total selfishness. If she helps him to get the money, he'll be in her debt. It's told the she withdrew from society because she didn't have any money. By helping Pierre, she helps herself (and of course, Boris). It was quite normal to use one's relations like that - not only in Russia.

Why did Count Bezuhov want to leave his whole estate to Pierre? Is it because he is the only son? Was it really that easy for his daughters to be completely disinherited?
At one point it's mentioned that Pierre was Besuchovs favorite child. But I guess it's also a question of "passing on the name". The daughter's will get married and everything would be devided. And it was not really a disinheritation, but because there was one MALE descendant he got everything/the majority.

Another thing I don’t completely understand is why the Russians want to fight Bonaparte to begin with.
At that time there were 4 important countries: Great Britain, France, Austria and Russia. The main reason was the division of power. Russia couldn't allow France to expand their territory - I guess, it was a demonstration of forces, but there was also an alliance with GB.
And for sure it was also the link between the aristocracies - especially the execution of the Duc d'Enghien lead to a breach of trust. (He was a related to the Bourbons.) What does "ordinary" people mean to you? Our characters are all aristocrats... and it was an important topic in the salons. And "normal" people didn't have anything to say.

Finally, I wonder what other books this one is reminding people of? It deals with a story about a family in rough times... Maybe "Buddenbrooks" by Thomas Mann?

#7 - thanks for the answers, that helps me a lot. By "ordinary people" I was referring to a scene where we see local peasants marching off to war, and their wives/daughters all looking unhappy. It was just a brief vignette.

You're welcome. :)
I am sorry, I didn't understand the question first. Yeah, I think the same as you: The "ordinary" people didn't care about the Enghien-murder.

I remembered another thing that might be interesting: France always wanted Russia as an ally especially against Austria (there were even negotiations about Napoleon marrying a relative of Tsar Alexander, but later he had to marry the Austrian Marie-Louise in the hope to improve the relations and prevent war - which was as we all know in vain). One contentious issue was always POLAND: Napoleon (under the "solicitous" influence of Maria Walewska) wanted an independent Poland - but Tsar Alexander was against that. So, that could be an additional point...

I have just finished Part One and moving into Part Two. I found it very confusing, but still interesting. My list of characters is always at hand, to keep everyone straight. I like Nikolay, and the Rostov family in general. I'm wondering how Nikolay will fare in the war. The other families and characters seem callous and coniving, always with an "agenda." Pierre is a curious character--I'm trying to like him, but he does seem "in the way" even in the course of the novel. Hopefully he'll become more likable.

Finished book 1 of vol 1. I also thought of Sense and Sensibility, the way there was scheming over who would inherit. I couldn't help thinking that the sisters would decidedly leave Pierre in the cold, but he's so nice he would probably be willing to share with them if they could even conceive of that kind of selfless generosity existing in the world. It will be interesting to see what happens to him now.

He seemed so naive and oblivious the night of his father's death, with Anna manipulating things so shrewdly. And I don't think she is greedy or mean, just astute in the ways of working the system. She really saved Pierre's bacon and I don't think he's realized (yet at least) just how close it came.

I'm also wondering why Prince Andrei doesn't like his wife. I guess he thinks she is flighty and dramatic, and too typically doesn't understand that he exacerbates that with the way he treats her.

I'm a Club Read Member who watches this group with interest and would love to have joined in the group read of W&P, as I had definite plans to read it this year. However, I wasn't ready back in January and only started it last weekend. Still, I'm hoping to benefit from this wonderfully organised group read and from reading everyone's thoughts!

I've just finished volume 1, part 1 and am enjoying the book very much so far. It has taken a little while to get all the characters straight in my mind, but, as JanetinLondon says, they do have distinct personalities. I like Pierre, and his apparent naivety and the way he differs from the rest of Russian society reminds me at this point of Prince Myshkin in Dostoevsky's The Idiot. Actually, I'm enjoying all the characters, regardless of how "likeable" they are and am eager to read more, though I am concerned that I won't find the "war" sections as readable as the "peace" sections.

I assumed Anna Mihailovna wanted to help Pierre out of self-interest - or in the interests of her son at least. I'm sure she's pleased that it's him who inherits his father's money, as he comes across as more generous and malleable than the other contenders. I have some sympathy for her situation.

I'm intrigued by the marriage between Prince Andrei and Lise - at this stage, it seems to me he's contemptuous of her because he considers her stupid and frivolous, but we shall see...

Hooray for starting! Some of us have liked the "war sections" a lot, so you might surprise yourself. Meanwhile, enjoy meeting all the great characters.

Yay Rebeki, great to have another reader! I had slowed right down but am finding it gets easier and easier the more I read. It wasn't that I found the first parts bad, or boring, it's just that I did not have the urge to read great chunks of it at once and kept on reading other things. Now I'm carrying it around with me and neglecting housework. (I am just over halfway now, at around p 700 in the P&V translation.)

Hi Janet, thanks for cheering me on! I realise I'm turning up at the party when it's more or less over, but it'll be a big help seeing that others have got through W&P before me!

Hi Cushla, I'm grateful that you set up this group read, even though I haven't been able to participate properly. From a purely selfish point of view, I'm pleased you haven't finished it yet, so I don't feel quite so behind, though there's no danger of my catching you up! And I'm certainly glad to hear you're finding it more gripping than housework!

Rebeki, there was also a Group Read in 2008 which is still sitting around on the threads somewhere - I'm not clever enough to remember how to find it. They also split it by book/section, so you might find those helpful, too.