I Was In Philadelphia Watching Fraud Happen

I bet you were.

I was on the Titanic when the boat hit the iceberg.

Uh huh.

"Trump Lawyer Who Gave ‘Non-Zero Number of People’ Answer to Judge Penned Story in The Federalist That Failed to Allege Fraud" by Law & Crime editor Colin Kalmbacher

>2 lriley:

"I was there!" used to be the catch phrase of Welsh comedian and singer Max Boyce, originally referring to a particularly notable rugby match. In his case it was brilliant stand-up comedy; in the current spate of right wing fake news, it is sinister.

I was at home watching Election Fraud Happen when I saw Trump tell the crowd at one of his North Carolina campaign Super Spreader events to "VOTE TWICE."

That's a legal crime. For real. And I was "there" attending to a live TV broadcast.

You know that Trump won't be. Don't you?

Republican election "impropriety" is something they bragged about doing. Militia intimidation, poll watcher intimidation by illegal "poll watchers"; empty accusations laced with threatening "I'll find out where you live"; Republican state officials adding illegal poll taxes on felons who the PEOPLE overwhelmingly reinstated that were paid by Michael Bloombeerg, so they could vote as the LAW allowed, armed deluded Trumpty-Dumbpties threatening ballot counters in several states, and led by an actual Republican congressman in AZ who doesn't even represent Maricopa voters where he was improperly interfering with government workers.

The list goes on and on. But I'm not, except to wish you the Thanksgiving Trumpists deserve. Now go stuff a turkey. Head first.

#4--mind that I have that member blocked and because of that I didn't know there was an article attached. I was just riffing off his heading and as such that leaves all kinds of comedic options open.

In the past I've been critical of democrats ability to self critique after a lost election. Instead of that critique we always get a doubling down of their centrism and more than less failed domestic, international and economic policy. This happens every time they lose and partly it's because they make such icons out of people like Clinton and Obama and put them in a place beyond critique.

The republicans go a little further from iconology to outright idolatry at least when we're speaking of Reagan and Trump. They're unwilling to question either their idiotic strategy for winning which absolutely depends anymore on voter suppression in any and every form imaginable but winning the electoral college and meanwhile at the same time not really giving a shit whether they actually win the popular vote. Maybe if they looked at this as a failure in strategy they might learn something. My guess is they won't. My guess also is their rank and file is so inured in their resentments that they will always feel cheated and always be looking around for a scapegoat....any kind of real analysis be damned.

To me this explains earthling.

>10 Earthling1:

And I can diagnose without seeing the sick in person, too.

You suffer from a head full of truth decay. Massive extraction is the only treatment to preserve reality. Otherwise, I'm a dragon who can breathe fire.

>12 Earthling1:

I assume everyone here will use their own judgement as to whether or not to flag it. Some people never flag any posts, some people flag often, some people flag very rarely. It's a very subjective choice. If you have chosen to flag it, you have carried out your own responsibility. Well done. In the same way, those who have chosen not to flag it have carried out their responsibility. It is not your responsibility whether other people choose to flag something or not.

>13 John5918:
Oh, but he thinks it is.

He thinks it’s his duty to lecture and direct, at snoringly boring length, all of us on exactly how we should behave. He’s said this flat out. He is our Mentor and Guide; our Arbiter of Good Appropriate Posting.

And called those who object “spoiled children.”

Which is, of course, in no way to be regarded as a personal attack. Funny how that works, isn’t it?

I guess he’s too young too have heard of “a broken record,” and doesn’t realize that endless nagging won’t win his point for him.

>15 Earthling1:

What about fair use of copyright material? You appear to exhibit rather a cavalier attitude towards that particular bit of fairness.

>16 Earthling1:

An insult is often subjective, and some insults are arguably so. You can flag anything you believe to be an insult. You cannot tell other people whether to interpret something as an insult or not. But more to the point, flagging is not compulsory under the TOS. People don't have to flag TOS violations. It's a free choice.

#18--I've still to plant my first flag. I certainly wouldn't do so at Earthling's suggestion.

Earthling1 is about 5 posts from going full Barney. Should be entertaining

#22--maybe we should congratulate him beforehand. Barney set a low bar.

>24 Earthling1: "Didn't happen, did it Mike?"

It's amazing what a little Haldol can do. Though I'm curious how you would now what I meant by "full Barney" since you've only been on the site since February. Unless, maybe, you're Barney.

Do I take Haldol too? No, Barn, I don't.

>1 Earthling1: Earth to Earthling. . . Come in Ling-Ling. . .

There's No Evidence Like NO EVIDENCE

So says Faux Newsy bobblehead, Tucker Carlson on the "performance of Sidney Powell, an attorney for the president’s campaign who alleged widespread voter fraud and conspiracy theories during a press conference earlier in the day," saying, “Millions of votes stolen in a day. Democracy destroyed."

. . .we invited Sidney Powell on this show. We would have given her the whole hour. We would have given her the entire week, actually, and listened quietly the whole time,” said Carlson. “But she never sent us any evidence despite a lot of requests, polite requests, not a page. When we kept pressing she got angry and told us to stop contacting her. When we checked with others around the Trump campaign, people in positions of authority, they told us Powell has never given them any evidence either, nor did she provide any today at the press conference … she never demonstrated that a single actual vote was moved illegitimately by software from one candidate to another.”

There's the reality. There are no stolen votes to present because none were ever stolen. Even Faux News Trumpty-Dumbpty cheerleader-who-would-be-president is unable to "think differently" hard enough to make Trump's legal eagle's lie come true.

A house of cards falls down even when no one blows on it.

>22 mikevail:

Do you think this legend, Barney, is now back at full...er...tilt?

Nah. Not nearly as sharp as Barney.

>30 Matke:
Hmm. Reposting the same thing in multiple threads, and the repeated Bowie lyrics? In the immortal words of Robert Plant; "it makes me wonder..."

I eagerly await January 20, 2021.

>35 Limelite:, >37 Earthling1:

I know how terrified you are, Limelite. Especially as we have the evidence of dozens of Proxy’s posts showing that one can pretty much say as one pleases.

The fastest way to extinguish behavior is to ignore it.

Not punish it; ignore it.

To ensure that a behavior will be very difficult to extinguish, give intermittent reinforcement, whether positive or negative.

Yer pays yer money an’ takes yer choice.

>34 Earthling1:
"You, too: Get to work on that long apology. You have a couple months."

No need to wait. I'm sorry for your loss.

On extinguishing undesirable behaviors:

https://www.instructionaldesign.org/theories/operant-conditioning/

Research and education. Always important.

So Weak As To Be Crazy, So Crazy As To Be Weak

Trump is down to Pennsylvania and two "lawyers" (guess who!) to prosecute his torso of a case that has been under the knife of emendation so many times as to read like a joke of a shadow of its former self.

Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, also appeared in a courtroom for the first time in decades to argue for halting vote certification in Pennsylvania. . .

"You're asking this court to invalidate more than 6.8 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter in the commonwealth," Judge Matthew Brann said at the hearing. "Can you tell me how this result can possibly be justified?"

Instead of presenting justifying evidence, Julie Annie and Scaringi (that's a name!) cut to their bottom of the barrel line. They ". . .asked a federal judge to hand over Pennsylvania's electoral college votes to Trump. . ."

All of which boils down to, you can ask for the sun, the moon, and the stars. America will sit back and munch its popcorn.

Predictions everyone? Will Judge Brann* grant the revised memorandum, or will he toss the case? Remember Trump's win/loss court case record is 2-33 and no stolen election, no illegitimate votes, no recount victories, no corruptible Secretaries of State, and no kidnapped electors. What's a cheating whining LOSER to do?

*Pres. Obama appointee

>49 Limelite:
Well, obviously to whine and lie some more. And to somehow, apparently through sheer bombast, convince far too many people that there is some justification for what they (Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani, especially) are saying.

I’ve had a couple of laughs reading this particular thread.

>45 Earthling1:
"That would really make you angry, wouldn't it? Seeing people happy?"
Depends on which people you mean. In your case, I'd be relieved. People are often happier when properly medicated.

Liberal Bias Hands Trump His A$$ on a Rusty Poker

WATB Filing, 'Haphazardly Stitched Together Like Frankenstein’s Monster,’ is Dismissed. “The voters have spoken.”

To use a common legal term, Julie Annie and his Mini-Me got a "shellacking" from Judge B. who tells the trolls to "get thee hence outta here with your. . ."

'Strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence'.

And then he tossed the case.

The ACLU (one of the defendants) said, "It is past time for the campaign to stop its shenanigans and move on.”

No good news for the Orange Shitegibbon today. Thoughts and prayers, Don-Boy, thoughts and prayers.



Read the blow-by-blow "streaming comments" from Josh Gerstein as he sat in the court room to eye-witness events here.

Download the *.pdf ruling here. Or view the opinion on Twitter here.

And yet another lawsuit bites the dust.

How completely in Cloud Cuckoo Land do you have to be in order to believe that all these judges, including Trump appointees, are involved in some vast conspiracy?

Soon our friends here will be telling us that we are, in fact, being ruled by Alien Lizard Overlords.

It would be really funny if it weren’t both maddening and sad. I know there’s been an anti-intellectual bias in the US from the get-go, but criminey! These poseurs and their views are both tiresome and dangerous.

And here’s the link:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/21/politics/federal-judge-dismisses-trump-pennsylvan...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/21/trump-campaign...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/us/politics/pennsylvania-trump-court-ballots....

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/21/federal-judge-tosses-trump-suit-over-pe...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsylvania-judge-throws-out-trump-lawsuit-bid...

LOL

>58 Matke:

And https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/22/judge-dismisses-trump-bid-to-stop-penn...

https://nation.africa/kenya/news/world/pennsylvania-judge-throws-out-trump-case-...

>59 John5918: So there’s a total of 8 news outlets running the political gamut from Fox to CNN, and the international gamut from the United States to Great Britain to Africa.

What do you suppose the odds are that the story is true? That yet another bogus lawsuit has been thrown out of court, thereby effectively ending the attempt to overturn the legal election in Pennsylvania?

You know what’s really funny, John? The fact that these lawsuits are being thrown out because there is no credible evidence to support the claims. It doesn’t take a year to establish that there is nothing at all, except hot air, backing up these suits.

It can be difficult, seemingly impossible, to accept the truth. Mr. Biden now leads Mr. Trump by approximately 6,000,000 in the popular vote. And he has 306 electoral votes. People can whine, cry, scream, or stand on their heads. It won’t change a thing.

And today’s question for our profound thinkers:

Are you claiming that all the ballots that resulted in the election of a surprising number of Republicans to the US Congress, and yet show Mr. Biden as the presidential choice, are faked, or are fraudulent in some way?

Are the ballots only faked or fraudulent in the presidential race section? Do we throw out all the ballots and start over, including those down-ballot votes that will put Republicans in office, or just throw out only the ballots that show Mr. Biden as the selection? What do we do with the rest of those ballots?

Why are Republican winners in down-ballot elections not joining in these lawsuits? Why ever would that be?

Please explain, in full, why there are so many down-ballot Republican winners, and yet Mr Trump is 6,000,000 votes behind.

If one is unfair and unbalanced I can see why news that is sourced in a fair and balanced manner could cause them to flip out and react with hyenic laughter. Something about change, about evidence and facts, and most particularly, about when the tables are turned and conservatives are being owned by the libs, that produces reactions indicative of primal fear being awakened within their radical right guts.

I wonder if this is a "legitimate" news source...

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/trump-lawyer-dumped-after-claiming-hugo-chav...

Of course, it's also being reported everywhere else.

So much for the much vaunted press conference.

>66 Earthling1: Hugo Chavez

>66 Earthling1: she never was officially on the legal team. They're just clarifying who is paying her...no one within the Trump administration.

Carry on.

>69 Earthling1: Seriously? Look it up. You touted this great legal team, but you don't know what Sydney Powell has been saying about the election?
Hmmm.

>69 Earthling1:
Goodness. Sydney Powell is a woman, for starters.

Oh, did you mean Hugo Chavez? His name was mentioned re: Venezuela, etc., but the ranting representatives of Mr. Trump. Do try to keep up.

>68 fuzzi: How do you explain this passage from the following article?

"Giuliani, Ellis and Powell held a lengthy press conference Thursday at the offices of the Republican National Committee, in an event announced by the Trump campaign.

The three of them spoken at length, with Ellis calling them “an elite strike force team that is working on behalf of the president and the campaign.”

Trump himself has previously named Powell as a member of his legal team and praised the work of the lawyers, as recently as Nov. 14.

'I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defend OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives!'

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-23/giuliani-drops-sidney-powell-...

>68 fuzzi: and >72 KAzevedo:
See, that’s the problem. This group tells so very many lies that it’s impossible for people, including their supporters, to keep up with them.

But we’ll be told again that he misspoke or we didn’t see it for ourselves.

After all it was the following people who said (sorry, brief break for research so I’d get my attributions right)

Mr. Trump: “What you’re seeing and what you’re reading isn’t what’s happening.”

Kelly Anne Conway: “We’re entitled to alternative facts”

Rudy Giuliani: “Truth is t truth.”

Honestly the jokes write themselves.

Trump's entire history is about throwing people under the bus. Look at what's happening to fucking Brian Kemp right now. Georgia went the other way and Kemp is to blame and Powell has her story that Kemp was taking money from communists to make it happen. I hate Kemp and love to see him squirm but that's really an outrageous slander. If Florida had gone democratic Ron DeSantis would now be going through the same thing and ditto Greg Abbott in Texas. Trump will never take the blame for anything and if need be absolutely any of his sycophants can turn into a fall guy or a loser.

This has been, politically, the worst four years in the United States in my lifetime.

We are still awaiting those promises:

Border wall built and Mexican government paying for it.

Hillary Clinton investigated again (9th time) and put in jail.

Steel industry brought back to the United States.

Coal industry revived and flourishing in the United States.

All those jobs lost to overseas countries brought back home.

US infrastructure repaired and brought up to safe standards, thereby creating thousands, maybe millions of jobs.

New and better health care plan to replace the American Health Care Act.

Huh. None of that, not any of it, happened. He had Republican majorities in both houses for two years, and a Senate majority for all four years.

And he hasn’t done squat except shoot off his month and tell how how he’s the best president ever, ever “except Lincoln. Maybe.”

How on earth can anyone still believe this lying, conniving, person?

Maybe this is why he lost the election.

Edited for spelling

>75 Matke: look it up: https://www.promiseskept.com/

>72 KAzevedo: she is on the team, not on "the team" as a government employee.

BTW, there's over 400 miles of wall completed as per MSN. Mexico is paying for it in many ways, as in providing security to keep more people from even getting close to the border.

But no matter what Trump accomplishes nor what his supporters point out, you and others will never be satisfied.

That's one reason I rarely comment here, as it's like trying to explain facts to a bunch of screaming banshees.

>76 fuzzi: Mexico is paying for it in many ways, as in providing security to keep more people from even getting close to the border.

This is not much like "paying for the wall". Is there any sense in which Mexico is actually contributing to the cost of constructing the well?

But no matter what Trump accomplishes nor what his supporters point out, you and others will never be satisfied.

Honestly, his "accomplishments" aren't much, and mostly they're partisan objectives that would have been hit by any Republican president - I'm thinking in particular of his being in position to stack the courts, thanks to McConnell's can't-govern-won't-govern posture during the Obama/Biden administration. Appointing a swath of questionably-competent judges on the basis of their willingness to sign off on an ideological agenda is, I suppose, an "accomplishment" but it's not one to be very proud of in my book.

His other "accomplishments" are essentially destructive. He's gutted environmental legislation, which is going to seriously damage the US going forward. He's more or less nuked our international standing, which is going to be generations in the rebuilding. He's utterly destroyed the American faith in the competency of the federal government, which will make it nearly impossible for any president to govern until we've rebuilt the agencies that he's trashed. And so on, and so on.
All of these he counts as "accomplishments", but they all weaken the United States, and they're all pure loss. The only thing they bought him was electoral rhetoric - and that, as we can see, has failed, since he lost the election.

And of course, there's his signal failure to cope with the biggest public health issue of the last 100 years. This was an opportunity to shine, this was his chance to show that Republicans can actually do this governing thing, and he failed as grossly as it is possible to do. Not only did he do nothing at all to prevent the spread, he arguably accelerated it in many places, both through his rhetorical murfings towards the anti-mask maniacs, and directly, by hosting large public gatherings in the midst of a pandemic. If Covid is a war, then his only action was to assist the enemy, and in doing so he holds a large share of responsibility for the fact that the American death count will certainly be over 3 million by the time this is done.

While doing all of this, he's contributed greatly to the rise of an anti-reality world view among a sizable contingent of those on the right, meaning that the Republican party now has to cater to some pretty sick fantasies in order to cobble together a coalition, which means that they cannot govern as a rational party. In other words, he's not just caused havoc in the federal government, he's also put his party in a pretty perilous state. Until this is resolved, the Republican party has to choose between their electoral chances and the health of the US - it's not possible for them to elect people representing the mythical French semiotician Qanon and also serve the interests of the republic, since people who live in a fantasy world cannot serve any interests reliably.

Do you wonder why I'm not going to be satisfied with him?

That's one reason I rarely comment here, as it's like trying to explain facts to a bunch of screaming banshees.

Let's try to tone down the "I'm right and everyone else is crazy" rhetoric, okay? I mean, I know it's the style now, and I know that it's popular with some of the left as well, but it seems like we can do better, and we ought to try. If you disagree with what I say above, make arguments about it. Calling people names is not going to convince anyone.

If you really think someone is not arguing in good faith, you can always block that user. I've done this for a few of the less coherent members of the "con" team, and it's done me no harm at all.

>76 fuzzi: At your suggestion, I “looked it up.” I don’t blame you for that suggestion; it’s always a good idea to get one’s ducks in a fairly straight row before making a statement.

So here

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46824649

is a rather complete analysis of exactly what’s been done with the border wall by Mr. Trump’s administration. The highlights are:
15 miles of new construction

350 miles of replacement or secondary construction. There was a barrier there; the Trump administration added to it or replaced it.

Effectiveness:
Detentions at the border are substantially down from 2019. Oh, wait; who was president then?

They are approximately the same as
2018 (Trump admin.)
2016 (Obama admin.)

and markedly more than
2015
2012
2011
2010 (all under the Obama admin.)

The US has so far paid $5 billion for the wall.

So I’m really skeptical that this is a keeping of either the letter or the spirit of his promise.

And I note that you don’t address any of my other points.

I was once asked here in this group to provide anything Mr. Trump had done that I regarded as an accomplishment. Anything at all! With the marked view that I was so blinded by my liberal bias or my dislike of the man or what have you, that I wouldn’t be able to name a single good thing he had done. I named three things I truly thought were positive accomplishments by Mr. Trump. In return I asked the OP, someone who has repeatedly called me and others “moron” “idiot” “illiterate” “ignorant” “blinded by hate” and other pleasantries, to name just one mistake Mr. Trump had made, one error in judgement he felt had occurred. He said he couldn’t think of any off the top of his head, and wasn’t going to spend any time on it. He lost a lot of credibility that day.

And when I asked you once or twice if you felt Mr. Trump should be excused for the exact behaviors you have decried by those on the opposing side, you have remained silent.

I certainly don’t think of you as a “screaming banshee,” I do think it is you, and other supporters of Mr. Trump, who are somehow unable to see, or perhaps unwilling to admit, that he has indeed made mistakes—even if only one in four years.

I’m sure you feel attacked by those who criticize a man you admire and voted for. I’m sure, too, that it can seem as though you’re being suffocated in avalanche of details.

But please don’t call me, even by implication, a “screaming banshee.” Most (I know, not all) of the time I work hard to make my posts fact-based, on point, and as courteous as they can be. I think your insult was inaccurate, unkind, and completely gratuitous.

Edited for spelling

#78--should mention as well that Trump shut down the pandemic response team that the Obama presidency set up. Might have been nice to have something like that. Conservatives don't like to talk about that--they also didn't want to get on the wrong side of his bullshit on Covid. Everything from it's a hoax to just swallow some hydroxychloroquine or bleach to 'I'm so smart could have been a doctor myself if I'd wanted to'. What he found out worked best for him finally was to ignore it completely and just let people die---meanwhile encouraging irresponsibility from the populace and hosting and encouraging superspreader events. His failure to do his job has led to hundreds of thousands of deaths and there will probably be hundreds of thousands more before this is all over.

>76 fuzzi: "That's one reason I rarely comment here, as it's like trying to explain facts to a bunch of screaming banshees."

The irony in this statement is that a banshee screams to inform people of an event. In some folklore, she's also a guide during a major transition (death).

Trying to explain what's happening to a screaming banshee is like trying to influence a tornado by describing what you want the weather to be. The event is what is no matter how you argue about it.

>77 Earthling1: OH for heaven's sake. And you claim to be so informed. Google Sidney Powell and Hugo Chavez together,. No mind-reading required. Here's one of hundreds. You're welcome.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55040756

>76 fuzzi: I have no idea what your statement, " she is on the team, not on "the team" as a government employee", means. Please explain the facts about this to me. I do seek understanding of others' points of view and try mightily to keep to facts in my arguments. Not sure why you would classify such inquiry as coming from "screaming banshees. We've never engaged before on this forum.

Tut. . .Tut. . .Tut, Bunker Baby

Wonder how Don-Boy likes looking out the window of the WH every day on the view outside, watching the progress as workers build Joe Biden's inaugural stage.

The transition begins. GSA conceded election to Biden in mealy-mouthed self-serving petulant whine fest of typical right wing Republican "cover my assiness."

Doesn't matter. We'll soon be rid of all the old filth in the WH. Then, after a good scrubbing and strong disinfecting, some new mattresses and lots of non-human trash kicked to the curb, REAL government will begin again after a hiatus of four years.

What's the best part so far? Aside from seeing Trump's "lawyers" humiliated for sheer incompetence and ignorance of Constitutional law, you mean? That would be seeing Janet Yellen holding the purse strings and signing the paper money of this country.

>83 KAzevedo: KAzevedo, I am still trying to figure out why fuzzi seems to think that Sidney Powell is a 'government employee'. She established her own law firm in 1993, and has not worked for the federal government since starting her own practice.

There are no 'government employees' employed by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.

>79 Matke: I went back to YouTube to access the (NBC) video about one of its reporters being surprised to find that the 400 miles figure was probably right, but it's been deleted.

But I did manage to find an actual report by NBC that referenced the video I'd seen before, and verified that the 400 miles number is correct, that 400 miles of wall has been built in areas that either had no wall (small percentage) or that had simple barriers that wouldn't have stopped my grandmother from walking through.

Here you go:

"Homeland Security concedes that only about nine miles of the new wall has been constructed on land where barriers did not exist before.

But it’s also important to note that what was there before was old, compromised fencing low barriers meant to stop vehicles but not people.

The Center for Biological Diversity has been tracking the wall’s construction since 2017, tracking the environmental damage wrought by the wall’s construction.

Campaigner Laiken Jordahl says while the group can’t confirm the exact 400-mile figure, they don’t doubt that construction has reached close to that number.

“Hundreds of miles of walls have gone up and ripped through sensitive ecosystems and through indigenous sacred sites,” Jordahl said. “An incredible amount of beautiful places have been destroyed due to this border project.” "

Not exactly a MAGA site, but the truth is there.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/verify/did-trump-build-400-miles-of...

Yes, it's hard to find this information due to the cacophony of "Trump is (epithet here) ....!!"opinion pieces and videos that are pinned to the top of web searches, but if a person is interested in more than just one viewpoint, and has some spare time, it can be found.

If you took offense at my reference to Pro & Con being filled with posts by "screaming banshees" then I am sorry. Those who have nothing to offer to discussions besides attacks and falsehoods have been blocked and I don't see them anymore, so the ruckus has been reduced.

BTW, I do have a full time job, and a family at home, and other interests besides LT. If I don't reply to all the demands for explanations it's not because there are none or my claims are not supported by evidence, it's just that I have a life outside Pro & Con. No offense intended.

Have a nice Thanksgiving, or holiday if you don't celebrate it.

>86 fuzzi: Those who have nothing to offer to discussions besides attacks and falsehoods have been blocked and I don't see them anymore

Hm, interesting. Fuzzi has just blocked me in another thread, apparently for politely expressing an opinion which differs from hers. My apologies for having "nothing to offer to discussions besides attacks and falsehoods".

#87--which is reason enough to respond in kind.

>86 fuzzi: Thank you for your courteous response.

A safe healthy and happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.

>86 fuzzi:

So your quote leads with "Homeland security says only nine miles of new barriers".
That seems significant. Previously there were 390 miles of barriers, and now there's 400. This is very different from building 400 miles of barriers.

Now, if you want to move the goalposts and say that Trump "built or upgraded" 400 miles of wall, that's a different position. Is that where you're going with this?

>90 kiparsky: This is what followers of Mr Trump do. They change parameters, they ignore opposing facts, deflect or ignore other questions. They “don’t have time.”

So why bother? There’s no point.

Let’s be crystal clear about exactly what’s going on here:

Mr. Trump was defeated by over 6,000,000 votes. Mr. Biden has 306 electoral votes.

Even given a favorable turn in any of these lawsuits which are reasonably based on some extremely small inconsistencies, no more than a very few hundred, or perhaps a couple of thousand, votes would be overturned. There are absolutely no facts to back up the literally insane belief that somehow, somewhere, sometime, unknown actors perpetrated a stolen election on this scale.

So. What’s going on? Mr. Trump is attempting to subvert the will of the American people and the constitution of the United States. And every single person who supports or believes this utter balderdash, is aiding and abetting this lying President.

I’m appalled. And angry, disappointed, and frightened. Frightened by the ignorance, the blind belief in a (literal) scofflaw who advocates violence and blind adherence to him, and him alone. Not the rule of law, not the US Constitution (except for the Second Amendment, which they grossly misuse to justify open carry of, for example very large long guns in Walmart) not democracy. Just Mr. Trump, first, last, center, and always.

Horrifying. The actual conservative side of the political spectrum in the United States has disappeared and been replaced by the forces of hatred, fear, white nationalism, and narrow religious bigotry.

I don’t want anyone to be in any doubt about what I think. Whether they care or not is totally unimportant to me.

Prove with evidence the voter fraud. Evidence...you know, the evidence that courts accept. They haven’t done that, you’ll note.

>96 Matke: The actual conservative side of the political spectrum in the United States has disappeared and been replaced by the forces of hatred, fear, white nationalism, and narrow religious bigotry.

And, not surprisingly, these forces of bigotry are attempting to gain and retain power by illegitimate means. This has been going on - look at Kemp in Georgia, disenfranchising voters for being Black, look at Trump's attempts to subvert the census - and now it's going to ratchet up. You're absolutely right: the conservative side of American politics is no longer a force, period. We are entering a period where bigotry is allying with big business in an attempt to take over American power, permanently. They use fantasies and lies, they twist religious faith to serve their hateful agenda, and they have no scruples.

This week I've been reading Wilmington's Lie, a history of a white-supremacist massacre and coup d'etat in North Carolina in 1898. What startles me is the similarity between the tactics used then and now, including attacks on the media (threats to lynch a newspaper publisher for speaking out against lynching), co-option of the police, the use of armed groups to create a persistent threat of violence, the posting of armed men at polling places to intimidate voters.
The end result of course a bloodbath and an illegitimate seizing of power by an armed insurrection.
Is this where we're going? Is this what the "conservatives" on this forum are after?

I think the Trump supporters need to think very carefully about what they actually want to come out of all of this. What they're advocating for is a very dark path.

This Trump kabuki has nothing to do with justice for the electorate. It has nothing to do with due process, considering how his minions have murdered process to get what isn't their due. And the last thing it is about is fair elections, since we know that phrase is coming out of the mouth of the most successful conman known to man.

There is only one thing that would get Trump to fix his make-up, do his hair, and put on his exxxxtra long red tie; there's only one goal that could get Moscow Mitch to step off center stage and out of the spotlight, ramming incompetent legal weasels into judicial positions; there's only one thing that would get one of the most "compromised" US Senators to lay his head on the block and commit election interference in not just one state, but three and do it for someone else's benefit, not directly his own.

And that's power.

>97 Earthling1: Only a fool is never afraid, even when circumstances warrant it. The truly brave acknowledge their fear and carry on with their commitment anyway.

This is not to be construed as indicating that I think I’m brave. This is to indicate the stupidity of not acknowledging fear.

>104 kiparsky: Thanks.

And a special thanks for the tip toward Wilmington’s Lie, which addresses something I’ve never heard of. Like so many disgusting and heartbreaking incidents of racial injustice, this one has been swept under the rug and made to nearly disappear from the consciousness, and the consciences, of the white majority here in the States. I’m grateful for the researchers and the writers who take on these subjects, bringing it them to our attention. It’s so easy to float along, in our little bubbles self-congratulation, instead of honestly facing up to the unpleasant reality of ongoing, and yes, systemic racism.

Mr. Trump’s supporters can’t admit that he’s made one mistake, so expecting them to actually sit down and analyze what he’s advising here is probably unrealistic. Bombast and bravado take no thought or effort.

I do think some, a minority but a vocal one gaining power, do in fact want an armed insurrection. That is, until they’re faced with the consequences.

It’s a sad, pitiful, and bewildering situation. But...we can just keep on doing the best we can to demonstrate how wrong and dangerous this is. And to get out the votes.

You know this is where they went wrong with Mr. Obama. They thought Democrats and those despised “liberals” were just as beguiled by him as they are beguiled by Mr. Trump. They missed all the vocal dissent, the many many voices pointing out what the Dems thought he was doing wrong. I’d have a lot more faith in their sincerity and their ability to think if I ever heard or saw one of them say, “You know, he’s our guy, but this policy is wrong. Let’s work to get this corrected.” It hasn’t happened and I don’t think it ever will.

Except for those who voted against him this time.

>105 Limelite:

I know. It’s an ancient saying: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It’s been attributed to Talleyrand,but I don’t know for sure where it came from. I only know it’s true.

>107 Matke: I live in Wilmington. The 1898 Race Riots (aka "the Coup") has been an open secret here for a century -- one the city never truly recovered from. When I moved here in 1991, it was still a deeply divided community. It still is.

But the Race Riots weren't completely ignored. Charles Waddell Chestnutt wrote a novel, The Marrow of Tradition, set during the event that pissed a lot of people off. Nearly a hundred years later the writer Philip Gerard wrote another, Cape Fear Rising, that pissed them all off again. A Race Riot Commission was formed about the same time, with the mission of documenting the event and studying the impact it had on the Black population, what was left of it, after 1898. And it became inescapably clear that the main instigators of the coup went on to enjoy a great amount of political power. The town is littered with streets, buildings, monuments, and historic sites honoring them.

It's been a long slow process to peel away this "heritage" and put it all into context, but it is happening now, and with more community support and much less community resistance than I would have imagined possible even ten years ago. This year Hugh MacRae Park -- dedicated by one of the Coup's organizers and created to be "whites only" was rechristened. And this year the main Spring tourist event -- the Azalea Festival -- discontinued one of the most popular and most-photographed parts of the event, the Garden Club Azalea Belles -- young women dressed up in hoop skirts and carrying ridiculous parasols and doing hostess duty at various events. Which sounds as silly as it was, but the thing has been this huge tradition for something like 50 years with the full and enthusiastic support of the upper echelons of Wilmington society.

>109 southernbooklady:
Thanks very much for the info and the book mentions.

I know we should be grateful for all the progress we’ve made, such as it is. But it’s been a long, long time. And so very slow.

Nevertheless there seems to have been a considerable bump in the past few years. I hope the acceleration continues.

English

He has nothing to contribute, but has this tic.

>112 Earthling1:
>115 Earthling1:
Flagged as trolling

>104 kiparsky:, >107 Matke:, >109 southernbooklady: - another book along those lines is Like Judgement Day which is about the destruction of Rosewood, Florida back in 1923. If I remember correctly the book was the basis for a movie.

I did read Like Judgement Day. Informative and heartbreaking.

>118 alco261: Thanks for the suggestion, I've added it to my request queue at the local library.

>114 2wonderY: I blocked this person, and you are correct. There are strings of multiple replies by just one person, none of which I can read.

>125 MsMixte:
Yes, thanks; I’ve done the same.

#125-126---welcome to the blockade.

>128 lriley: My first literal LOL of the day.

#129--I do try not to be grim all the time but yes, we could all be pirates together. Swing aboard Earthling's ship and knock down his yardarm and run our colors up his flagmast and rip down and burn his Trump flag and steal all his rum....and one of us could swim underneath his hull with a corkscrew and drill a few holes in the bottom.

>130 lriley:
Excellent idea for a fun adventure!

I can't hep but think of The Last Saskatchewan Pirate by Captain Tractor.

>133 Matke: Heh.

>130 lriley: I added Proximity yesterday. I'm certain that at least one or two of the trio firmly believe in the tripe they are attempting to sell, but there does come a point when I just don't see the point in reading the blather.

>130 lriley: I'll be in the balloon over the ship:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izws4RmQUBo

#135--ah the flaming arrows--good thinking---aim for the powder house.

From today's decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit in the case of Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. versus Secretary Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:

“Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy.......But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

I'd also like to point out that the case being appealed specifically mentioned that "The Trump Presidential Campaign asserts that Pennsylvania’s 2020 election was unfair. But as lawyer Rudolph Giuliani stressed, the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . This is not a fraud case.” "

Giuliani says it wasn't a fraud case, so we're still looking for fraud in Philly.

Will this go to SCOTUS? Giuliana and crew will try to elevate it, but will SCOTUS accept at this coming Friday's conference? It would take only four are needed to grant cert., but five will be needed to expedite. Without the fifth vote, the case will become moot.

For those keeping track, EVERY judge on this panel was appointed by a Republican president. The lead author, Judge Bibas, was appointed by Trump.

>139 Limelite: It'll get released at the same time as the new and improved bigly better Free Health Care for Everyone plan.

Donald J Trump for President, Inc., is now 1-38.

Apparently the Kraken is just a guy in a rubber suit, or more recently, CGI creation that at first looks quite real, but soon reveals the illusion.

A helpful explainer from Auntie Beeb:

The Kraken: What is it and why has Trump's ex-lawyer released it?

The Kraken is a gigantic sea monster from Scandinavian folklore that rises up from the ocean to devour its enemies. It's also become an internet meme representing a sprawling, unsubstantiated set of claims that purport to outline the case for widespread fraud in the US presidential election. Pro-Trump groups including QAnon conspiracy theorists have amplified the idea under the hashtag #ReleaseTheKraken, and it's being widely shared by those supporting the legal campaign to challenge the election results...

When I first heard the current reference to the Kraken it was John Wyndham's classic science fiction novel The Kraken Wakes which came to my mind before the Scandinavian folklore.

I have two Kraken's references:

1. It's the name of the new Seattle NHL team that begins playing in 2021-22 and their logo seamonster looks like an octopus.

2. From the Fall's 1982 LP Hex Enduction--the last song Iceland in the 5th and last verse:

(1st verse)
A plate steel object was fired
And I did not feel for my compatriots
Hated even the core of myself
Not a matter of ill-health
It was fear of weakness deep in core of myself
The fact attainment was out of
Mounting orations
What generations
Dumb populations
What emuluations
(2nd verse)
To be humbled in Iceland
Sing of legend, sing of destruction
Witness the last of the god-men
Hear about Megas Jonsson
Cast the runes against your own soul
There is not much more time to go
Work fifteen hours for the good of the soul
(3rd verse)
And be humbled in Iceland
Sit in the gold room
Fall down flat in the cafe aisle
Without a glance from the clientele
Your coffee black as well
Hair blonde as hell
Cast the runes against your own soul
Roll up for the underpants show
(4th verse)
And be humbled in Iceland
And the spawn of the volcano
Is thick and impatient
Like the people around it
See a green goblin redhead, redhead
Make a grab for the book of prayers
Do anything for a bit of attention
(5th verse)
Get humbled in Iceland
What the goddamn fuck is it?
That played the pipes of aluminum
A memorex for the Krakens
That induces this rough text
And casts the runes against the self-soul
And humbles in Iceland

------------------------------------------------

What all that means is up to the beholder. The songwriter Mark E. Smith believed at the time that his band was on the verge of breaking up and this would be its last recording. The bass player Stephen Hanley in his book The big midweek: Life inside the Fall tells the story that this particular song came up on the spur of the moment. The studio they were recording this in Iceland was built inside a glacier and one band member started noodling around and the others started riffing off of that and the above lyrics were a complete no preparation ad lib by Smith off the top of his head.

To me both of these examples of Kraken are a whole lot more interesting than all this Q-anon bullshit.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/28/politics/pennsylvania-state-supreme-court-electio...

Aaaaand the futile efforts of the ztrump campaign meet yet another setback.

I would rather see amateurs be supreme court judges than the corrupt poseurs appointed by Trump to the SCOTUS who don't even know the law and believe Christian "sharia law" is Constitutional. Deplorable diminution to that previously august body.

All Republican appointees have been LOSERS selected by the Federalist Society, the #1 pretentious LOSERS club in the country, tied with the Senate Republican Caucus, of course. All of them have been the weakest jurists on that bench since Bush, or totally corrupt ideologues of the bigoted kind. Unworthy to a person.

If Trump's delusions about massive election fraud were true he wouldn't be trying so hard to "prove" they're true. The truth proves itself. That's what the judges are telling him over and over again -- no evidence, no proof, no truth.

But, of course, Trump stupidly keeps sending Julie Annie and his "legal" team to court because he believes that if the guy stands in front of a judge in a courtroom he'll turn into a lawyer.

Why? Because Trump believes that being in the Oval Office made him a president. And that going to church once made him a Christian. Or that standing in front of a camera made him a star. That's how he "thinks"; that's what makes him delusional.

His followers think that by saying the election was stolen from Trump over and over again, without evidence, or proof, that it's true. That's what makes them delusional. Even a kindergartener knows that "Saying it's so doesn't make it so."

Reading right-wing media doesn't automatically make you delusional. You have to be "special."

Bar’s announcement today:

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-elections-willia...

#152--really William doesn't want to get any deeper than he already is.

Popcorn shares soaring on Wall Street as America gets settled in for the Great Billy Barr-Julie Annie Election Fraud Death Match.

I like mine buttered. Real butter.

>111 Matke: Zucchino just did a Zoom event for the organization I work for. It was scheduled in September but interest exploded after January 6 as news organizations latched onto the 1898 Massacre as a historical parallel to what happened in Washington. Creepy timing. You can watch the video here if you are interested:

https://youtu.be/WdJrPyDPQUU

It was a little eerie to listen to him discuss the steps the insurrectionists took in 1898, and impossible not to see the same things unfolding now.

>155 southernbooklady: Thanks for that!

Another worthwhile read that I've come across is Like Judgement Day by Michael D'Orso. This one is about a 1923 massacre, and about its consequences, and about the pursuit of justice. Not a perfect book by any means, but the story is a pretty important one. Worth tracking down.